Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum
(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture".
THERE IS NO RAPTURE
WHY THE TITLE RAPTURE BIBLE PROPHECY FORUM?
WE STARTED OUT BELIEVING IN A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
BUT FOUND OVER TIME AROUND 2006 THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SHARE A
BIBLE VERSE WHATSOEVER INDICATING A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:
While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. John 17:15 (KJV)
Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matt. 24:29 (KJV)
WE DAILY STUDY TO SHEW OURSELVES APPROVED
WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY WE ARE LEARNING DAILY AND
ARE ABLE TO ADMIT WE MAKE MISTAKES BUT STUDY TO
LEARN EVERY DAY.
LET YHVH/YAHUSHA BE TRUE
AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
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THIS SITE IS ABOUT Yahusha/JESUS
We are followers of Yahusha/JESUS Only
Yahusha/JESUS IS GOD/YHVH
Yahusha/JESUS is YHVH/GOD/YHWH-Yahusha/Son:
Yahusha/JESUS is The WORD
Yahusha is I Am That I Am (Exodus 3:14)
Yahusha is YHWH come in the flesh, He put aside His Diety to become a human, born of a Virgin.
Yahusha is the Word, As The Most High, He spoke all things seen and unseen into existence
When YHWH created Light, He was revealed to the angels.
John 14:26
"the breath of life"
But the Comforter, which is "the breath of life", whom the Father will send shall teach you all things.
God is not His Name but a term. The Holy Spirit is not a person but the very Breath of the Father.
There is no Trinity. The Father, YHVH and Yahusha are One (John 10:30)
THE BOOK OF ENOCH
NOW IS THE TIME!
FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!
REFERENCES IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH TO THE BIBLE
https://bookofenochreferences.wordpress.com/category/the-book-of-enoch-with-biblical-references-chapters-1-to-9/chapter-1/
Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch
The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa
Yahusha/JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:
THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT
JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY
FREE DOWNLOADS
All Of The Apocryphal Books Of
The King James 1611 Version
http://www.scriptural-truth.com/apocrypha_books.html
Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's return!
Comment
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TRIBULATION SAINTS "IN" CHRIST
The fact that there will be many saints (true believers in Jesus) on earth who will face Antichrist during the Tribulation ( Rev. 7:9-14; 13:7,10; 14:12,13; 17:6; 20:4 ) is not disputed by any of the three rapture teachings. --Pre-tribulationists, however, feel that the entire body of Christ ( the "Church" ) will have been raptured just before the beginning of the Tribulation, and that there can be no "Church-saints" on earth during the tribulation, so these "tribulation saints" we speak of in the above verses, would not be part of the body of Christ (the Church). --However, those who teach this pre-trib view may not realize that as they try to propose a group of Jesus-believing, blood-bought, New Testament saints "in" Christ, which are not part of the Church (Christ's body), this brings up very serious problems concerning the doctrines of justification, reconciliation and redemption ...indeed, such a viewpoint puts the biblical doctrine of salvation under attack.
Why does this view undermine the proper view of "salvation"?
The sacrifice of Christ benefits all truly repentant sinners who have sincere faith and trust in Christ, but this benefit is conferred as God automatically baptizes all true believers in the Holy Spirit, which places them "into" the Body of Christ ( 1Cor.12:13 ) --and that "Body" is the Church (Eph.1:22,23), with the result that all believers are "IN Christ" (2Cor.5:17). Being "in Christ" is the place of justification ( Gal.2:17 ), redemption and forgiveness of sins ( Eph.1:7 ). What's more, Paul teaches that a person who is in the body of Christ, has died to the requirements and condemnation of the OT law ( Rom. 7:4,6 ) ---and thus, anyone who is not in the body of Christ remains condemned by the law ( Rom.2:12 ; Gal.3:10-11 ; Jas.2:10 ). There is no other place, than in Christ's body, for those spiritual transactions in the NT. It will only be people "in Christ" (and in his body), who have been crucified with him, who have died and been burried with him, and are made alive with him ( read Rom.6:1-10 ). For anyone to be saved, God places Jews or Gentiles "in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross" ( Eph.2:16 )... and that one body of reconciliation is the Church ( Eph.1:22-23 ). There will never be any other way to justification, reconciliation to God, redemption, resurrection and eternal life, than by being "IN Christ," which is in his body --the Church-- ...and anything else is another way of salvation (and really, another gospel) than is found in the Bible. --It would take some major explaining to tell how a person could be "in Christ" but not in his body (the Church). If the tribulation saints are not in Christ's body, then how are they saved? --Consider especially verses like Romans 12:5, which says, "so in Christ we who are many form one body." Paul says explicitly there that being "in" Christ means being in his "body", and he uses those two ideas as being inseparable. ---Biblical Christianity can never advance any other way of justification and redemption, other than being "IN Christ."
So, the pre-trib notion of a group of "tribulation saints" who are saved and redeemed during the tribulation, but yet are not part of the body of Christ (the Church), is actually a contradiction in terms, which rests on very shabby theology that undermines the biblical doctrine of salvation. ---The true situation during the tribulation will be: there will be Spirit-baptized saints who are "washed ...in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev.7:14), so, they are blood-bought and justified saints; they will be born-again Christians "who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus" ( Rev.12:17 ), and who "remain faithful to Jesus" ( Rev.14:12 ).
--And very crucial for this discussion: note those saints who "die IN the Lord" during the Great Tribulation ( see Rev.14:12-13 with 6:9-11 ) ...remembering from our previous discussion, that being "in the Lord," or "in Christ," is precisely the NT description of a believer who is part of the Church, the body of Christ!
Thus, there is no possible way that these tribulation "saints" can not part of the Church. --They must be.
The corporate body of Christ first came into being when believers were first baptized in the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost ( Acts 1:5 & 2:1-4 ). Since then, every true believer is automatically placed into the body of Christ by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit ( 1Cor.12:13 ), so that all believers are "in Christ" (and this must --since the Acts 2 day of Pentecost-- include all Old Testament saints, as well as tribulation saints). Redemptive union with Christ, in his body (the Church), has always been God's plan for all believers of all ages. Paul says that Jesus is the Savior of "his body" ( Eph.5:23 ), and it would take some major explaining to show that he is the Savior of anybody else. Anybody who is not part of the body of Christ, therefore, will not be saved. Jew or Gentile, there is no other provision in all of eternity for the salvation of sinners other than by being in the body of Christ. --So, unavoidably, since there are saved people on earth during the tribulation, the body of Christ, the Church, must be present on earth at that time.
Since the "Church" is clearly on earth during the Tribulation, there is no reason to say that the Church is evacuated just before the Tribulation begins.
Obviously, those who "die in the Lord" during the tribulation will be part of Christ's body, the Church, and they too ( like all who are in Christ ) will rise at the first resurrection and be raptured ( 1 Thess.4:16-18 ). Thus, the rapture must follow the tribulation, during which those tribulation saints "die IN the Lord."
SAINTS UNDER GOD'S WRATH?
Some Bible students are deeply concerned over the idea that born-again members of Christ's body ( the Church ) will be present on earth during the tribulation, thinking that these saints would necessarily be subject to God's wrath ...but this is an unnecessary and ill-founded concern. This is because no saint in any place or time will ever be subject to God's wrath ( 1 Thess.5:9 ). In point of fact: Right now, at this very moment today before the tribulation, "God's wrath is being revealed from heaven against all the... wickedness of men" (Rom.1:18 and 1 Thess.2:16), and this present wrath of God never touches a single saint. This is because --as we have already established-- no saint is ever subject to God's wrath. - As a result, the "tribulation saints" are IN Christ, and justified "by his blood" ( Rev.7:14 ), so it would also be impossible that they would be subject to God's tribulational wrath or any other divine wrath. Jesus died on the cross for every believer of all time-periods, and in doing that, Christ took the full measure of God's wrath against any believer, so no portion of God's wrath can ever touch him. There will be blood-bought saints on earth during the Tribulation ( Rev. 7:14 ), but none of God's wrath will ever touch them.
In contrast, however, God's tribulational (& post-tribulational) wrath will be poured out upon the "earth-dwellers" (Rev.8:13) who are of the earth --but the saints are not "of the earth" but they belong to Christ, and though they will be on the earth during the tribulation, God's wrath will never be poured out on them. The bowls of tribulational wrath (Rev.16) will be poured out particularly on the wicked who take the mark and worship the beast ( Rev.14:9,10; 16:2 ) and who kill the saints, and blaspheme God, and refuse to repent ( Rev.16:8-11 ). This wrath is focused on these people, and does not touch the saints. They will be shielded by God. - This situation is remarkably similar to the plagues of the Exodus that affected the Egyptians but not Israel (though Israel was not yet removed out from among the Egyptians) ...in fact, in Revelation 15, those who are victorious over the Antichrist, will sing "the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb" (Rev.15:3). Then very much like the exodus out of Egypt in Moses' day --at the end of the plagues, and after having been shielded from God's wrath-- the saints will be raptured at the Parousia and will join in with the armies of heaven as the returning Christ comes to judge, as he "treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God" ( Rev.19:11-21 ), and, along with Christ, "the saints will judge the world" ( 1 Cor. 6:2-3 ).
Although tribulation saints will experience very tough times, persecution and death from Antichrist during the tribulation, they will abide under the sufficient grace of God but never his wrath. Rather, they will set their hope on their soon-coming Lord Jesus.
SAINTS TO FACE ANTICHRIST
As we have established, there will be New Testament saints on earth during the Great Tribulation: blood-bought, justified, Holy Spirit-baptized saints IN Christ ...members of his body, the Church. This is unavoidable, since there will people on earth saved by the shed blood of Christ. They will be protected from God's wrath, but in Revelation 13 we see that the Antichrist (beast) will be permitted for 3 1/2 years "to make war against the saints and to conquer them" ( v.5,7 ). The saints will be subject to the murderous persecution of Antichrist, but not God's wrath. Daniel makes the same point, agreeing that the saints will be subject to him for 3 1/2 years ( Dan. 7:21,25 ).
We have already determined that the event which destroys the Antichrist, is the glorious Parousia at Second Coming of Christ, ...therefore the time of Antichrist's great persecution of the Church, is the 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation just before that glorious Second Coming. We must remember, however, that even though we know the approximate duration of this persecution under Antichrist, we still will not be able to pinpoint the day or hour of the Lord's Coming ( Mat.24:36 ), because Jesus said that "those days (of the great tribulation) will somehow be "cut short" ( Mat.24:21-22 & Mk.13:19-20 ). So, in some way or another, God won't allow the full 3 1/2 years to run out their course, and we don't know how many days he'll cut off. ( See answer to this in "Rapture FAQs" ).
Though the Antichrist will "conquer" the saints in physical, political, and economic terms, this will not be the whole story. The Church will still faithfully carry the gospel to all nations, and then the end will come ( Mat.24:14 ). And not all Christians will die: Some will live until the Parousia (coming) of the Lord ( 1 Thess.4:15 ). The saints will be the ONLY people on earth guaranteed to resist and not to worship the Antichrist ( Rev.13:8 ), and to resist taking the mark ( Rev.14:9-12 ). The saints are the only ones who will not be deceived by the satanic deceit and powerful delusions of the Antichrist ( 2 Thess.2:9-12 ). Through all the Devil's attacks in the tribulation, believers "overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death" ( Rev.12:11 ).
IN SUMMARY
Whereas there is no explicitly clear scriptural evidence which places any component parts of the rapture before the tribulation period, ---there is explicit and direct evidence for a resurrection of believers at the start of the millennium ( Rev.20:4 ), and explicit statements of the post-tribulaional coming of Christ "on the clouds" with glory, and with a trumpet call, and with a "gathering" up of the elect (Christians) by angels (Mat.24:29-31). Evidence for a supposed pre-tribulational rapture is not clear and direct like this, but is only inferred by implications of different sorts. -- (Still I love all my pre-trib friends!)
Although Antichrist will persecute the Church during the Great Tribulation (the 3 1/2 years just before the glorious Second Coming of Christ), still, all the saints will overcome him spiritually by remaining faithful to Christ, and some saints will live through to Christ's Parousia (arrival to earth). When the Parousia happens, Christ appears in power, glory and wrathful judgment, the dead in Christ are raised, all Christians are caught up to meet Christ in the sky (raptured), the Antichrist is overthrown by the bright appearance of the "Parousia," and Christ lands on earth with all his saints, to begin his Millennial kingdom. ---This viewpoint is classic Christian theology. It has been so held for almost 20 centuries, since the apostles and early Church fathers, and thus is called "historic" Pre-millennialism. May the Lord guide and bless his saints to glorify him in the momentous days apparently soon to be on us.
Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
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For further reading:
The best book I've seen on the time of the Rapture, is : "The Church and the Tribulation" by Robert F. Gundry, Zondervan, 1973.
However, since the above book is out of print, you may need to read : "First the Antichrist," by Robert Gundry, Baker Books, 1997.
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This is "Ruffy," the pre-trib puppy, looking for scriptural evidence for the pre-trib rapture.
"How's it going, Ruffy?" - - - "Rough, ...Rough," he says.
(... Just kidding! ... )
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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
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