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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
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Question for the Faithful

Scripture very clearly gives us the exact proof that these men were called up, right? It was not assumed by implication but told to that there is no doubt.

II Kings 2:11

11 And as they went walking and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and did separate them twain. So Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Hebrews 5:11

5 By faith was Enoch translated, that he should not see death: neither was he found: for God had translated him: for before he was translated, he was reported of, that he had pleased God.

Revelation 4:1

"After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

We know there is going to be a Rapture but where is the scripture that says, "The Church is Raptured."?


Very, very interesting dialogue..........

gerlinda

An interview with Dr. Gary DeMar (author of Last Days Madness) on the pretribulational rapture view.

Is There Going to be a Rapture?

There's not going to be anyone disappearing out of the earth prior to the second coming. The guest is right in that it's just an illusion of misinterpretation- there's no verse anywhere in the bible that says one peep about people being removed but the exact opposite is taught, that we are here through the whole thing. Jesus Himself prayed that we not be taken out of the world, but kept from the evil. And this is what He affirms later when He says, I will keep you from the hour. This is not a taking out of the world it is a keeping, as in guarding, as a keeper keeps a door.

The host keeps begging the question over and again by saying things like "Jesus said He would keep us from the hour- that is the rapture removal!" but he never shows there is even a "rapture removal" to begin with. He looks at Enoch and sees the rapture removal of the church, when the question is "What rapture removal?" Where is this "rapture removal" taught in the scripture to begin with? It simply doesn't exist and is in fact the complete opposite of what scripture teaches.

Things like "escape these things" and "not appointed to wrath" say absolutely nothing about "rapture removal before the coming of the Lord" they are talking about being sealed by the knowledge of the doctrine of Christ and escaping the worldy things:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The pollutions of the world is the bad doctrine, the leaven, caused by carnal understanding- we escape these things through knowledge, this is what the Word teaches- it teaches not a peep about a "taking out of the world" of the church in some "rapture removal" prior to the coming of the Lord.

This is why we're not appointed to wrath because we escape the pollutions of the world through knowledge of Christ. This means the mark of the beast, this is the hour of temptation: because we know what day the king of Babylon is appointed right? And we know when the last day is, true? So because you know what day the king of Babylon is due, then when he comes he can't deceive you into thinking he's someone he's not. You avoid worshipping him as if he's someone he's not. You just escaped these things to stand before the Son of Man. You just were kept by the Word from the hour of temptation. You were just guarded by knowledge. You're not appointed to the wrath to come on everyone else around you.

Now you have work to do, you're going to have to start teaching the truth and raising some people from the dead. The whole world in fact. It all switches to spiritual warfare after the king of Babylon comes. And the Lord has said, you are My weapons of war. So all the other Christians who do not have this knowledge of the times will bow to the antichrist thinking he is Jesus but he's not Jesus and it's all a lie.

Then the wrath of God comes through the elect who break the bad news to everyone that this is in fact all a snare and a lie, and they all fell for it and in their ignorance have betrayed and forsaken Christ and worshipped the devil in his place. This is where the weeping and gnashing of teeth comes in.

Then once the elect completely reveal that Wicked for who he is, the coming of the Lord takes place and every knee bows and everything is reconciled.

To add, the guest rightly keeps asking where in the bible is a rapture removal actually taught because its not there, and you can't point at elijah and claim he's a picture of a rapture removalwithout first being taught there's such a thing taught in scripture, so pointing at something and saying its a picture of a removal of the church just begs the question 'what removal of the church?'

Also because the sword cuts both ways, though the guest asks rightly concerning the doctrine he is rebutting and is right about no removal of the church, he is also erring in his understanding by advocating a 70 ad fulfillment of prophecy of which doctrine I ask him his own question- what 70d event? The one that is as absent from the bible as the removal of the church? Where in the bible can I find this 70 ad destruction of jerusalem? I don't see it in my bible either.

So I must presume this would be where the guest would tell me I need to put my faith in secular history and the trustworthy non-inspired writings of men and how God doesn't record information crucial to understanding his Word in His Word that I may hAVE His Word on the matter and I just laugh