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Hello all,

I have always had a problem understanding when Satan was cast out of Heaven, because I was believing another gospel, one taught by men and not by the Holy Spirit. I have found that once the truth about what these false doctrines were doing to the pure Word of God are unraveled, then this problem goes away. Most believe that Satan will be cast out of heaven during the last days, and before a supposed Tribulation period on earth. Many write articles and make videos on this subject and go into great detail about how this is so. But, is this what the Holy Bible really teaches? Before I present a very good study into this subject, I would like to ask a question.

Do most born again Christians really believe that Satan still has access to the Throne of God? Does this not seem impossible? To me it does, it has never made sense, and it never will. Jesus tells us plainly that He cast Satan out of heaven, right after His resurrection, so why would we think that Satan is not bound, and can still accuse us before God? It is not rational and it surely is not what the Holy Word of God tells us.

Consider just these following verses, that plainly state that Satan
was cast out of heaven for good at the cross.

Jesus, Himself, speaking here:

John 12:31-33 Now is the judgment of this world: NOW SHALL THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD BE CAST OUT. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Notice what Jesus said after the resurrection:

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME in HEAVEN and in EARTH.

Now compare this with “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ” Rev. 12:10.

Please think about this for a few minutes, and see if you think that there is something wrong with seeing Satan having access to heaven after Jesus arrived to rule and reign at the Right Hand of His Father. To me, believing this is also believing that Jesus failed at the Cross. The article below is a good one, and needs to be considered as to what really happened to Satan when Jesus died for all of us.
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SATAN BOUND

(INSIGHT INTO BIBLE PROPHECY #117)

by David Vaughn Elliott

Satan is public enemy number one. Among the most important issues in life are the relationships between Satan, God, and man. Does God control Satan? To what extent? Are we stronger than Satan or is Satan stronger than we are? What is meant by the binding of Satan in Revelation 20?

SYMBOLS OF SPIRITUAL REALITIES

Chapter 20, like all of Revelation, is filled with symbolism. In 20:2, we have "the dragon, that serpent of old." This is not simply a literal snake-in-the-grass or a literal Chinese-like dragon, anymore than the Lamb of Revelation is a literal four-legged mammal. Surely, "that serpent of old" takes our minds back to Eden. Also, "Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). He comes in many disguises. In the case before us, Revelation itself interprets the figure: "the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan" (20:2).

Another symbol is the "key to the bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:1; 20:1). "Key" appears six times in the New Testament. Not once does it refer to a literal, physical key. The "keys of the kingdom" (Matt. 16:19), are surely not physical keys to physical doors. The "key of knowledge" (Luke 11:52), is obviously a spiritual concept. Jesus possesses the keys of Hades, of death, and of David (Rev. 1:18; 3:7). Who would claim that a physical key was passed down from David to Jesus? Nor can there be any physical key to death.

"Keys" in the above cases are clearly the power to make available (to open) and to restrict (to shut). We need not question the shape or size of the "key to the bottomless pit." It is all symbolic of great restrictions placed upon Satan.

"Bound" is another leading word in Revelation 20. "Binding" expresses limitations or obligations. "A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives"(1 Cor. 7:39). Whether God's or men's laws, we often speak of something being (or not being) binding. A wife being bound in no way implies inactivity or inability to influence others. The binding refers to one circumstance only--she cannot leave her husband for another man.

Jesus said of the future teaching of the apostles: "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" (Matt. 18:18). This binding neither physically limits anyone nor even forces anyone to do God's will. Rather, the apostles' doctrine is binding spiritually with eternal consequences.

To understand Revelation's symbols, we must consider how they are used elsewhere. To understand the admittedly difficult concept of binding Satan, we must consider all that the New Testament teaches regarding limits placed on Satan.

JESUS RESISTED SATAN'S TEMPTATIONS

The great war between God and Satan, which is at least as old as the earth, entered an entirely new phase when Jesus came. Among other things, He came to battle Satan, our archenemy.

Just before the start of His ministry, Jesus was confronted by Satan. Two temptations were initiated with the challenge: "If you are the Son of God" (Matt. 4:3,6). Satan must have known he could not tempt God. He certainly did know he had succeeded in tempting (and causing to sin) every human being who ever lived. Now Satan had a totally new challenge: Deity in the flesh. Thus, these two temptations were challenges for Jesus to prove Himself. "Let's see," says Satan, "if you are really the Son of God. Prove it." Jesus resisted.

The third temptation went at it a different way: "If You will fall down and worship me" (Matt. 4:9). Falling down to worship Satan would disprove Jesus' Deity, since He would be making himself inferior to Satan. Satan and the Word were in fierce combat. Jesus won all three rounds.

JESUS OVERPOWERED SATAN'S DEMONS

Nearly every case of demon possession recorded in Scripture took place during Jesus' ministry. Satan must have realized that Jesus in the flesh was an extremely serious threat to his power. He therefore "pulled out all the stops." He tried everything to overcome Jesus. However, his plans backfired.

The multitudes were so taken with Jesus' power that they seriously considered He could be the promised "Son of David" (Matt. 12:22,23). The Pharisees, quite unsettled, replied that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub (verses 24-27). Their remark offered Jesus the perfect opportunity to make two amazing declarations.

First, Jesus said: "If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you" (verse 28). Jesus' power over demons was evidence of the arrival of God's kingdom. It was evidence that Satan could not stop the kingdom that had been promised by Israel's prophets. No Jewish rejection would stop the kingdom from arriving. Satan himself could not stop it. Indeed, God's spiritual kingdom is precisely involved in overcoming Satan's power in men's lives.

JESUS BOUND SATAN

Jesus made a second amazing declaration that day: "How can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?" (Matt. 12:29). In the context, the strong man is Satan, the house is his sphere of influence (compare Matt. 4:8,9) and the one who plunders the house is Jesus. Casting out demons, as He had just done, is an example of the plundering. In order to plunder Satan's house, Jesus "first binds the strong man." Jesus was right then in the business of "binding" Satan.

"Binds" here is precisely the same English (and Greek) word used in Rev. 20:2! Thus, the concept of binding Satan is not new to Revelation. The binding of Satan need not be relegated to our future. Even before Calvary and the open tomb, the powerful Word of Life was walking this planet, placing limitations upon Satan--"binding" him.

Mark 3:27 reads basically the same as Matt. 12:29. In Luke's parallel text, Jesus' words are stated differently: "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils" (11: 21,22). Jesus says He is "stronger than" Satan, that Satan is no longer "in peace," and that Jesus "overcomes him." Jesus "takes from him all his armor in which he trusted." Jesus "divides his spoils." The Word in flesh was overpowering Satan!

The problem with many believers is that they only think of the "binding of Satan" in connection with Revelation 20. They overlook the "binding of Satan" in the Gospels. The book of Revelation is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (1:1). This Jesus Christ is the same Jesus Christ who spoke of binding Satan 65 years earlier in the presence of the same John who wrote Revelation. Matthew 12, Mark 3, Luke 11 and Revelation 20 cannot be isolated from one another. Jesus overcame and bound Satan the first time He came to earth!

"BINDING" IS NOT AN ABSOLUTE TERM

There is much discussion as to how absolute the "binding" of Satan was, is, or will be. An examination of Jesus' earthly ministry furnishes us with important clues. In spite of Jesus talking about binding Satan, Satan still had enormous power at that time. The demon-possessed people showed Satan's power. Satan was working even in the lives of Jesus' apostles. We mourn over hypocrites in the church today, yet even Jesus had His Judas. Look at how the mobs turned against Jesus and pushed Pilate to allow His crucifixion.

In spite of all Satan's activity during Jesus' ministry, Jesus referred to himself as binding Satan at that time. Therefore, there is no Scriptural warrant for forcing the "binding" of Satan in Revelation 20 to be a situation in which Satan is totally inactive, with no more influence over people. Such an interpretation of "binding" is a doctrine of men, with not one Bible text to back it up. Throughout Scripture, spiritual binding refers to placing certain limitations and gaining certain victories. It does not refer to causing a cessation of all power and influence.

Being "chained" does limit a person, but in no way does it restrain the person from all activity and influence. This is readily illustrated in the imprisonment of Paul. While Paul was chained, he converted Onesimus (Philemon 10). In Phil. 1:12-14 Paul says that his being in chains "actually turned out for the furtherance of the gospel." Five of Paul's epistles were written while he was in chains. Chains and imprisonment limit people, but in no way do they make them powerless.

SATAN CAST OUT

Jesus used more expressions to declare His victory over Satan. For example, "The seventy returned with joy, saying, 'Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.' And He said to them, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven' " (Luke 10:17,18). Once again, it is power over demons that causes Jesus to announce victory over Satan. Jesus added, "Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy" (verse 19). But lest the disciples, past and present, think that physical power is what it is all about, Jesus continued: "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven" (verse 20). This is the real victory over Satan!

The week of His crucifixion, Jesus said: " 'Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.' This He said, signifying by what death He would die" (John 12:31-33). Satan cast out! When? "Now... will be cast out." By what means? The "death He would die." We cannot escape the conclusion that at Calvary, Jesus triumphed over Satan, casting him out.

Rev. 12:7-10 teaches the same thing, telling of war in heaven that resulted in Satan being cast out. Verse 11 explains that "they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb." "Overcame." That is the same English (and Greek) word we saw in Luke 11:22, where Matt. 12:29 and Mark 3:27 say "bound." Thus consider: "Overcame him [bound him] by the blood of the Lamb."

Rev. 12:10 further says: "For the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down." Because of Jesus' sacrifice, Satan can no longer accuse men of deserving the death penalty. That is what Romans 8 says: "If God is for us, who can be against us?... Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies... It is Christ who died... who also makes intercession for us" (31-34). Satan is no longer before God to accuse us! Remember Job? Jesus is now before God to intercede for us! Hallelujah!

Calvary was not defeat. Calvary was victory! Jesus was lifted up. Satan was cast out. The two events are inseparable. It is impossible to interpret Revelation 20 correctly if we ignore the great victory that Jesus has already won over Satan.

THE DEVIL DESTROYED

Jesus took on flesh like us, Hebrews says, "that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil" (2:14). In Jesus' death, Satan is destroyed. I do not comprehend it all; but these are strong words. "Destroy" is obviously stronger than "bind," "cast out" or "overcome." Are there some future elements involved here? No doubt. Even when we say that Jesus "saves," there is a future eternal element involved.

However, there is definitely a present element. Verse 15 continues the sentence, "and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." "Were" all their lifetime. Surely, the implication is that through Christ we are not in bondage to death as the world is. As Paul wrote: "I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope" (1 Thess. 4:13,14). The death and resurrection of Jesus forever changed the dynamics of the universe.

The same John who wrote Revelation, also wrote in his first epistle: "The Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil" (3:8). Why did Jesus come to the world? To seek and to save our lost souls? Surely. But that includes destroying the works of the devil!

Elaborating many of the things involved when Jesus went to the cross, Paul included: "Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it" (Col. 2:13-15). Jesus disarmed His enemies, of whom Satan is number one. He made a public spectacle of His enemies. Jesus triumphed! Satan was disarmed and made a public spectacle! May God help us all to comprehend better the depth and breadth of what happened on Calvary that fateful day when even the sun hid its face and the ground shook at the momentous event taking place.

VICTORY OVER SATAN NOW

The same John who wrote Revelation, triumphantly proclaimed in his first epistle, "He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world" (4:4). Is Satan still active in this world? You had better believe it. However, since Calvary, there is a new dynamic. Our Jesus is greater than the world's devil!

Two chapters earlier, John wrote: "I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one" (1 John 2:14). "Have overcome." Not in the future. Now! John says it even stronger in 5:18. "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin... and the wicked one does not touch him." No, I do not believe that Christians live in sinless perfection. Nor do I believe in "eternal security." But neither do I wish to erase 1 John 5:18 out of the Bible. Whatever exact interpretation a student gives to the verse, it speaks of great power over "the wicked one" in our lives today.

Do not forget the armor of God with "the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one" (Eph. 6:13). "Will be able." And God "will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able" (1 Cor. 10:13). Yes, Satan can still tempt us. However, God puts a limit on the strength of the temptations. God has "delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love" (Col. 1:13). We are in the kingdom now! We have been delivered from the satanic power of darkness now!

Jesus told Paul that He would send him to the Gentiles, "to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins" (Acts 26:17,18). How receive forgiveness? By loosing them from Satan's power.

All these statements of victory over Satan are for those who are born again. Notice the contrast Paul presents in Ephesians. "Dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked... according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience... even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" (2:1-5). The "before" life was according to Satan. The "now" life is in Christ Jesus. The sons of the kingdom are promised life with power over Satan. The sons of disobedience receive no such promise--unless they turn to Christ.

"DECEIVE THE NATIONS NO MORE"

The only explanation that Revelation 20 gives as to the meaning of the binding of Satan is that "he should deceive the nations no more" (verse 3). What does that mean?

A great change came upon the world through Jesus' first coming. "Remember that you, once Gentiles... at that time you were without Christ... having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ" (Eph. 2:11-13). Before Christ, the Gentiles were without God; they had no hope. Before Christ, God's revelation was given to one nation; He had little to say to the Gentiles. Satan's power was everywhere. The eternal Word entered this world to totally change that situation. True, Satan is still powerful today. However, he is greatly limited in comparison to his influence before Christ's first coming.

"Once Gentiles... without God." The Greek word "ethnos" is sometimes translated "Gentiles" and sometimes, "nations." Ephesians is talking about the condition of the "ethnos" before Jesus' first coming. Rev. 20:3 says that Satan is bound "so that he should deceive the nations ["ethnos," Gentiles] no more." Is not Ephesians 2 an excellent commentary on Revelation 20?
Had it been possible to have the Gospel in Noah's time, the ark could not have held all the righteous people. Speculation? Perhaps. How about homosexual Sodom? If they had had the Gospel, God would have found more than ten righteous people and, honoring Abraham's prayer, would have spared the city. Speculation? Not at all! Speaking of Capernaum, Jesus said that "if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day" (Matt. 11:23). Amazing! Before Jesus came, the nations were deceived and almost totally under Satan's power. With Jesus' first coming, all that changed.

Since the first century, the gospel "is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes"(Rom. 1:16). That power did not exist before Christ came. Christ conquered Satan and unmasked him. We no longer need to be deceived. As Paul wrote: "lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices" (2 Cor. 2:11). That is saying, "we understand how he works; we are not deceived by him." None of which is to deny that we can choose to reject God's Word and therefore fall into deception.

WHAT OF SATAN'S PRESENT POWER?

Both Scripture and experience teach that Satan still has tremendous power in today's world. This is the principal argument futurist premillennialists use to claim that Satan surely is not bound today. This is a strong argument. However, it is not the complete story, as has been seen in this article. Their argument ignores several important facts:

1) The New Testament is filled with declarations of limits already placed upon Satan as a result of Jesus' first coming.

2) Because of the spread of the Gospel in the world, Satan's power over the nations today is considerably less than it was before Christ's first coming.

3) Aside from the admittedly difficult text in Revelation 20, all the texts that mention great limitations being placed upon Satan, are either speaking of the limitations now enjoyed in this age or those to be enjoyed in the New Jerusalem.

One of the futurists favorite verses is 1 Pet. 5:8: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." This is correct. But this verse does not present the Christian as a helpless victim. On the contrary, it is an exhortation to be vigilant precisely because Christians have the necessary defenses. The very next verse says, "Resist him, steadfast in the faith." As our brother James said: "Resist the devil and he will flee from you" (James 4:7). What a precious and powerful promise!

As a result of the incarnation, as a result of Calvary, as a result of the open tomb, King Jesus offers victory over Satan now. Yes, many in the world remain deceived. However, in all nations there are those who are no longer deceived by Satan. Before the prophecies begin in Revelation, the Lamb is found worthy to open the seals because "You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" (5:9). Satan can no longer deceive the nations in the way he did before Jesus came to earth to bind him.

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I would like to make this perfectly plain here....Yes, Satan is going to be loosed from the bottomless pit for a short time before the Second Coming of Christ. This may be what many are seeing as him being cast out of heaven to the earth...but we should not be confused about this as there is a difference. Not understanding what truly happened at the Cross and believing the seducing doctrines of men and demons has almost rendered the Church totally powerless!!! They may have form, but they have no power!! This is because they do not believe that Jesus established the Kingdom of God at His first coming in the flesh, and don't believe that Satan was cast out of heaven and no longer able to accuse us in heaven, and don't believe that when one is born again they take part in the First Resurrection and are already citizens of His kingdom on earth and in heaven!!

It is sad, and it is not difficult to see why Jesus was so concerned about false teachers, as it seems man, not Satan, has been the masters of deceit, and have lead the whole world astray, even the elect. If anyone out there who is reading this totally believes that Satan can still access the Throne of God, please prove it using the Holy Bible, and not the doctrines of man.

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

Bump

Bruce in case you read this....this is one thing that I totally believe has been fulfilled. Satan was cast down at the Cross!

Hold on...I believe he will be unbound and let out of the bottomless pit at the end of the age of Grace which is quickly approaching....

Patti C.

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PER EMAIL FROM BRUCE WARNER


WHEN WILL SATAN BE CAST OUT OF HEAVEN ?




The Book of Revelation is very clear about this BY THE NUMBERS:




Rev 12:6 "the woman fled into the wilderness for 1,260 days" THIS HAS NOT YET HAPPENED - IT IS STILL FUTURE !




Rev 12:7 "war broke out in heaven"




Rev 12;8 "the dragon did not prevail"




Rev 12;9 "the dragon was cast out"




Rev 12:10 "the rapture occurs"




Rev 12:11 "they, the Church, overcame by the blood of the Lamb"




Rev 12:12 "the raptured Church is now rejoicing and dwelling in heaven"




Rev 12:13 "the devil with great wrath is now dwelling on earth"




Rev 12:14 "the woman is protected from Satan for 1,260 days"




SATAN HAS NOT YET BEEN CAST DOWN TO EARTH. It is "spirit of lawlessness ( Satan) which is already at work on the earth" NOT SATAN HIMSELF !




At the present time it is BOTH the Holy Spirit AND the spirit of Satan which are at work among men on earth. BOTH Jesus and Satan now reside in heaven until the time comes when Michael casts him down.




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist for the Lord

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Steven

I do believe this is the case, here is what Paul says:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
12 [For] Our ·fight [conflict; struggle] is not against ·people on earth [L?flesh and blood] but against the rulers and authorities and the ·powers [or cosmic powers/rulers] of this ·world’s darkness [L?darkness], against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly ·world [realm; places].

In the KJV we note the word "places" is in italics, meaning it is not actually from the text; the word "high" is the same as the word "heaven" which is "ouranos" and is the same "ouranos" as at Rev 12; so we see here Paul clearly stating we are struggling against wicked spirits in heaven, the "high places" being the places of worship; so Satan is still in the heavenlies, the high places, still access to the throne, still a place found for him, still accusing.

So what is your response to this passage and its implications to what you're espousing here? If Satan has been cast out of heaven, what is Paul meaning here? Where is the wickedness? What does this mean, what is Paul saying? This question pretty much founds the rest of the teaching so might as well get by this before going on to the article proper.



Why would it seem impossible? Does the book of Job seem impossible?



This is not "plainly saying Satan was cast out of heaven" this is plainly saying that "the prince of the world will be cast out"; the "prince of the world" could be many things- it could mean "Satan", sure- but it doesn't "plainly" say "Satan"; maybe it means the Gentile rule over the kingdom of Israel, maybe it means Moses and the law, maybe it means Jesus Himself being "cast out" at the crucifixion- and moreso, why are you saying "cast out" means "cast out of heaven" and not "cast out of the world"?



This says nothing about Satan being cast out of heaven. It means Satan is now under the authority of Jesus and Jesus is the One saying "Whence comest thou Satan?"

Wow! Double teamed! Ha!

Okay…Brothers Bruce and John, I am going to answer both at one time, and hope I cover both of your questions.


It is obvious that we disagree about a great number of things, and I guess that makes for well-balanced discussions. First off (Bruce) I do not believe the Book of Revelation goes by the numbers. In fact I do not know of any Bible scholars that see it that way, but maybe you do and could share who, other than you, they are.

As to the woman fleeing into the wilderness…that was fulfilled in 70 AD…but, I am not saying there is not a future fulfillment as well. As I see there are many double fulfillments in the Word of God. I also do not believe in a future 1,000 year millennium, and have covered that subject a multitude of times.

What is most important is what Christ did by bringing in the Kingdom of God and He now rules in Heaven…He cast Satan down at the Cross. Since the understanding of the “heavens” is actually a dimensional thing…Satan could have been cast down to another dimension….there is much good study on the “fourth kingdom that could tie into all this. I do not believe Satan has access to the Throne of God like he did in Job’s day, and to think he does is to deny what Christ did at the Cross.

Jesus has the keys to hell and death not Satan. It is man who is at fault here. By not seeing what Christ did, they give Satan his power…man worships Satan instead of God…in high places on alters built to false gods. So, Bruce, this is another thing that I see as having been fulfilled at the Cross…the binding of Satan.

Satan was defeated…it was finished…now Satan is under the rule of Jesus and can only do what Jesus allows. But, he will be let loose, for a short time and gather his armies for the final battle…which I believe is happening right now.

I think the biggest issue here is that you both see a future 1000 millennium…other than that I respect your understanding of these issues, but do not agree. What I put forth is what the Holy Spirit is showing me…and that needs to be respected as well.

I get the feeling that neither of you will agree with me on this, so thanks for commenting, but nothing either one of you said gives me reason to change my beliefs on any of these issues. Therefore, let us respectfully agree to disagree.

Your Sister in Christ,

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

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PER EMAIL FROM BRUCE WARNER

Hi Patti C,




Do you ALSO DISAGREE with the following Holy Scripture, which God authored in His infinite wisdom ?




1 Timothy 2:11-14

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman TO TEACH or to have authority over a man, BUT TO BE IN SILENCE. ......but the woman, being deceived, fell into transgression."




YBIC,




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist for the Lord

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

Bruce...

This is a forum...this is not a church...I have a right to speak.

You would think that okay if I agreed with you, but this seems to be your ace in the hole for when I don't.

We already did this dance...I am not going there again. Enough He said she said banter.

I totally agree with Scripture...I just do not agree with your interpretation of it. We all have that right, so accept it and move on.

I am done trying to discuss anything with you, you just cannot do it respectfully and I am finished trying to explain myself so you can banter about it...I have much better things to do, and hopefully you do too.

I thank God for all the wonderful women and men on this site who somehow are able to speak and disagree without getting holier than thou, and insisting everyone believe what they share.

Best Wishes Bruce, but I am done responding to you. Amen!

Patti C.

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RE: MY LAST RESPONSE TO Patti C.........







God will have the LAST WORD in all matters concerning His Word. I do not judge, His Word will be the judge.







YBIC,




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Ybic
Steven

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Matthew 18:20

"For where two or three are GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, I am there in the midst of them."







According to Your Infallible Word, come Lord Jesus !




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist for the Lord

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

I'm sure you're being facetious here, but for the record I'm not agreeing with anything else being said by any other people making comments, their words are their words. I comment on the post because I think the information merits comment- from my point of view this is a good thing.



No doubt. We could cite much scripture to testify this fact.



Okay why are you saying this? What scripture is teaching you this? I presume you're still meaning to say "cast Satan down from heaven at the Cross"?



It's the mind: heaven is the realm of the mind, the kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of knowledge; the treasures of heaven are wisdom and understanding: the war in heaven is a warring in the mind: and the fact that there are still people struggling in their minds with the Word of God tells me plainly that Satan is not cast out of heaven. The fact that the Temple of God is continually profaned by the corruptible doctrines of men shows me plainly that Satan is not cast out of heaven. This doesn't happen in scripture until the Revelation, and as we touched in another thread, good luck citing scripture to establish "it was already fulfilled" doctrines.



Okay and what scripture makes you question that this has changed?



That's a strong accusation- on what grounds are you making it?



No doubt. Scripture testifies to this.



Why would I not? It's according to the Word of God.



Bear in mind I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs, just guarding the Way, as it were.

Hi John,

Yes, I was joking…Glad you at least considered that as a possibility.
Of course your words are yours and I appreciate that. I am so busy working on other things that I hope you understand that to condense 10 studies on the millennium into a few short sentences is not something that would not do them justice, and just invite a bunch more questions.

So I am not going to address that with you here, please feel free to read my studies on this issue as they can all be found on this site. After reading it would be wonderful for you to take the time to prove, biblically, that there is a future millennium, I do not think that is possible, but certainly willing to consider your arguments for it. Also there is a really good book by Joe Ortiz called ‘The End-Times Passover” that has a chapter or two about this subject, and this book is also available on this site.

The “Prince of this world” is Satan…also known as the prince of the air…which is what I get from what you said about the mind…air. I agree with you that we can take all this as an individual inside battle that occurs for each person…but it happens on all levels, in hearts, minds, religion, society, and in the world.

I believe when Jesus says in Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

That is exactly what happened…Jesus did not say will fall in 2000 years from now!!

Remember, you are the one who needed to hear Satan referred to by name and will not settle for prince of this world.

If you believe that Satan was not bound at the cross, then please explain how Jesus defeated him? Are you saying nothing changed in that regard, and that Satan just had free reign to continue as before the Cross?

Quote from study:

"Rev. 12:10 further says: "For the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down." Because of Jesus' sacrifice, Satan can no longer accuse men of deserving the death penalty. That is what Romans 8 says: "If God is for us, who can be against us?... Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies... It is Christ who died... who also makes intercession for us" (31-34). Satan is no longer before God to accuse us! Remember Job? Jesus is now before God to intercede for us! Hallelujah!

Calvary was not defeat. Calvary was victory! Jesus was lifted up. Satan was cast out. The two events are inseparable. It is impossible to interpret Revelation 20 correctly if we ignore the great victory that Jesus has already won over Satan."

That is what I believe.

I am not trying to change your beliefs either…just get at the truth.
We are on the same side…fellow believers in our glorious Savior.

I look forward to commenting on your studies into these issues.

Thanks!

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!!

Patti C.

Look at this:

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Is there more than one Satan? Who are these people? Who crucified the Lord of glory? Are you sure Jesus isn't talking about an actual flesh and blood man when He said that about the judgment of the prince of this world? You're sure Jesus isn't talking about someone like the chief priest? What are we meaning when we say "Satan" anyway?

Moreover, even if we say "Okay this is Satan"- "cast out" doesn't say "cast out of heaven" so it looks to be saying "cast out of this world"; the point being that this passage isn't supporting "Satan was cast out of heaven", it isn't saying it at all.



This verse however is saying it. So either the passage in the Revelation about Satan being cast out of heaven is symbolic history of this event right here (not the crucifixion as you earlier proposed, but this event right here of the sending out of the disciples); or both Jesus and the passage in the Revelation are prophesying of the same future event. I believe the latter is the case: not only is Jesus "The Prophet" but everything He is doing/saying is prophetic, moreso here as He says "I beheld" which is a specific prophetic utterance, used only elsewhere in the NT in the Revelation:

Re 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne
Re 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels
Re 6:5 And I beheld, and lo a black horse
Re 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal
Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude
Re 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven
Re 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth

Similarily:

Eze 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures
Eze 8:2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire
Eze 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them
Da 7:4 I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked
Da 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard
Da 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit
Da 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake
Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them

Lu 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

What is going on here is that the disciples are coming back with the initial results of what is happening and Jesus is prophesying the end results of what is happening. The disciples are saying "We saw the beginning of it" and Jesus is saying "I saw the ending of it"

And again, Paul also clearly teaching me we're struggling against evil in the heavenly places; so clearly there.



I never said I didn't believe Satan was bound at this cross. You seem to be equating "bound" with "cast out of heaven" but the two aren't synonymous.



Satan has never had "free reign" the book of Job spells that out in detail. No one does. Any alleged Illuminati don't control jack but their delusions of grandeur which all go poof in the end when the shocking truth is realized. They'll never be the same. And that's pretty much the point. Daniel chapter 4 is the point.



It also says he has "a short time" but apparently this is ? Two thousand years? What is the "short time"?

Re 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



What scripture says this? Where is this coming from?



Not imputing sin, absolving of sin, etc. these things are not the same as "cannot be accused" and "cannot be accused" is not "cast out of heaven" all of these things are huge leaps in logic without biblical support.



No one is ignoring any victories, it's the part where you are teaching "already cast out of heaven" as if it's a necessary conclusion to "was defeated"- you are aware that it is entirely possible to conquer an enemy, be victorious over that enemy, and bring that enemy under your authority so that he nows does what you tell him to do? The only happens all throughout history, right? So we can be sure that "victory" doesn't have to equal "cast out of heaven"

John,

I stand by what I wrote and your study and comments are here as a comparison and that is good. Let each reader decide for themselves and be encouraged to find out for themselves.

Amen?

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.