Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes



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A very Timely Message by JR Church and some random thoughts. Thank you Doves for viewing this post and taking the time to read!


JR Church Video is very timely once you listen to this video please take the time to read and view the links I provide below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EStDFz2qrc
Six Blind Men and an Elephant






After viewing the JR Church Video let me share a few comments and video links below.

John the Baptist from Revelation Radio I believe is quoted between the 60-70 minute mark to say: “PreWrath Rapture position is the most biblically accurate”
Please correct me if I misquote him. I do not want to bear false witness.

Link: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/tribulation-now/2013/04/11/end-time-updates-and-everything-apocalyptic-with-stan-deyo
Between 60-70 minute of this show.



Frank Dimora in the last 10 minutes of this video Frank mentions : “what if the pre tribulation rapture position is wrong: What if we got it wrong?” Frank addresses this question and also admits he still teaches the pre tribulation position:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpX3ser2sUI
Please feel free to go to the last 10 minutes of this video to save yourself time from viewing the whole 43 minute video if you are short on time.






Kent Hovind after 30 years of studying the bible and preaching pretribulation now has changed his position hear what Kent has to say in this video: If you are short on time please go to the 34 to 38 minute mark to hear Kent Hovind stance on the rapture.


Link to Kent Hovind position on the rapture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNKD8KeLrCg&feature=player_embedded

Please go directly to the 34 to 38 minute mark if you are short on time.
Kent Hovind switches from PreTribulation position to PreWrath Rapture position.
Quoting Matthew 24, Luke & Mark Chapter 13
Kent Hovind: “Pre tribulation rapture positions is not true”





Lastly,

I wanted to bless you with a very interesting link to 2 FREE PDF books by Joe Ortiz.

LINKS TO 2 FREE books via PDF.

1.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17H-Z6ZZQWVg44wCU1NJsrS-8ymY5PQqsyMCi98_Vyls/edit?hl=en&authkey=CMaLxpkI
Links to 2 free PDF books


A.The End Times Passover
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9dVV_URABMZWEyNjg0MjktNjE0Zi00M2RjLWFmMjUtYTg2ZmIzYzMzZTUy/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNLW2IIE

B.Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9dVV_URABMNWMxMDQ1NmEtZjQ2NC00YjhmLWIwMmEtNDBiZDUyYmMzODhl/edit?hl=en&authkey=COjuysgP

Once you click on the links on the far left hand corner is the word "FILE" click on it and download to your computer hard drive!


Do we have to agree 100% with everyone? My answer: No.

Can we glean from different teachings? My Answer: Yes.

Always pray for discernment and ask God through the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to all truth!

As with anything discussing the scriptures please pray for the HOLY SPIRIT to lead you to all truth.

Do not throw out the baby with the bath water. Let us all study the scriptures to show ourselves approved.

I pray that this blesses each and everyone of you and draws us closer to our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST!

Maranatha!


God Bless

Steven

Acts 17:10-12
Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men. NKJV







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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out

I'm glad to see minds opening on this issue rather than one group savaging the other as we would have been doing just a short while back. I am convinced that the biggest problem we have in regard to the rapture is patience. So many rapture dates have come and gone with no rapture occuring, and yet we can see the signs of the endtimes all around us, so we surmise that surely the rapture has been mis-interpeted and surely we are in the tribulation, so it must be a pre wrath rapture or a mid trib rapture or a post trib rapture, etc., etc.

I still believe in a pre trib rapture with a full seven year tribulation, a mid trib abomonation of desolation in a rebuilt temple and all of the seals, trumpets and vials yet future.

The tribulation will happen and probably real soon, but it hasn't happened yet,in my opinion.

But I will not trash those with an opposing view, and with God's help, I will continue to be a student of the Word and continually learning.

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes



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Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!



Hi Rudylee,

Great comment.


May I suggest a few posts to listen to posted recently titled:

One Hour and 10 minute interview by Derek Gilbert:
http://vftb.net/archive/vftb055.mp3



BRUCE COLLIN INTERVIEWS :JOE ORTIZ

Can the Scolfield Bible be Trusted?

When is the Rapture?

What does the bible say?

http://tinyurl.com/CanScolfiedBibleBeTrusted



Also on the link directly below you will find an interview by Rick Wiles about the decline of the American Church. Please take the time to listen to those interviews as well as download the TWO FREE books!


Link to Free PDF Copies of Joe books.docx

The End Times Passover

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0By9dVV_URABMZWEyNjg0MjktNjE0Zi00M2RjLWFmMjUtYTg2ZmIzYzMzZTUy&hl=en&authkey=CNLW2IIE



Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0By9dVV_URABMNWMxMDQ1NmEtZjQ2NC00YjhmLWIwMmEtNDBiZDUyYmMzODhl&hl=en&authkey=COjuysgP






++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out

Per Email from Arlene:





Hi Steven....Again, I really enjoyed your posting on Doves site today(4/19/13). I've been "hungry" for some really good stuff, and you supplied it in good measure. Thank you. It was so good to see J.R. Church in fairly good health again in that video. My heart ached for him when he was so sick and beyond help. And I still love Gary Stearman...so thanks again. "Prophecy in the News" is the main magazine I "cut" my Christian teeth on....and it's still terrific. I encourage anyone to order a subscription if they love to read Christian magazines.



It was the elephant message they presented that touched me the most....how right they were!! They actually were saying what I Cor. chapter 12 talks about.



vs.13..."For by one Spirit are we ALL baptized into ONE body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been ALL made to drink into ONE Spirit. (vs 14) For the body is not one member, but many. (vs.15) If the FOOT shall say, Because I am not the HAND, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? (vs.16) And if the EAR shall say, Because I am not the EYE, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? (vs. 17) If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling (NOSE)? (VS 18) but now hath God set the members EVERY ONE OF THEM in the body, AS IT HATH PLEASED HIM..........(vs.21 And the EYE cannot say unto the HAND, I have no need of thee: nor again the HEAD to the FEET, I have no need of you..........(vs. 29) Are ALLapostles? are ALL prophets? are ALL teachers? are all workers of miracles?......etc"



Our "body of Christ" would look very strange if it was all feet...or ears...or hands, etc.



Look at it this way:



Feet = Methodist

Ears = Baptists

Hands = Episcopalians

Noses = Pentecostals

Eyes = Non-denominationalists



etc....everyone in every church building is a part of the whole body, no matter what denomination it is...and it is up to ALL of us to sift out the untruths from the truths. Each individual is responsible for this as long as they have a bible and can read.



You get the picture. Each one of us has a piece of the puzzle (that may be different from someone else's), but some of us actually refuse to even listen to another's theories and will not sit down with their own bibles to see if another's opinions fit the picture better than the pieces we have obtained on our own or from our Pastor. Our "body" is sorely lacking in EARS to hear (what the Spirit is saying to the churches). Each person in the "body of Christ" has their own purpose, but most of us depend solely on what our "leader's" opinion is and not what we find out on our own. Nobody will hold our hand going through that last "Door" who is our Lord Jesus Christ. We will have to know the answers ourselves if we are asked. We can't point to someone else and say, "Well, he told me........and I believed him because he was smarter than me." That won't cut it!!



As one of the video's in your links said, What if we're wrong?"



Thanks again, Steven, for encouraging me to say something. I was afraid nobody ever listened.



Arlene



PS I visited your website again today, and there are lots of eyes, ears, toes, hands, etc. there....nice!

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Arlene Wrote:

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FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES



Why are so many of us being so very foolish? And not only foolish, but very childish as well. We are supposed to be MATURE, or being in the process of maturing to what God wants us to be. Just recently a "Christian" wrote that something was offensive to him/her and, because of this, they would never go to that site again.

This is what I would expect to hear in a playground, but not with people who say they are "mature" followers of Jesus Christ.


What does scripture say about this? I Cor.14:20-21..."Brethren, be not CHILDREN in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be MEN. (vs.21) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages from all over the world)and other lips(from other people) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not HEAR me, saith the Lord."

Jeremiah 5:21 comes to mind. "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:"

Jeremiah 5:31.."The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end therof?


As MEN (and I include both genders in this term) we are ALL less than perfectly correct, and we never will be until we go through the WHOLE process of JUSTIFICATION (initial salvation), SANCTIFICATION (gradual growth to Christian maturity), and GLORIFICATION (when we finally go from this world to the Kingdom of God). Until then, we are ALL wrong in one way or another.

The only absolute truth comes to us through the Bible through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the Word (John 1:1), and He, through our Bibles, gives us the truth. Nothing, or nobody, outside of those things can be relied upon for absolute, 100% truth......no denominations, no Pastors, no parents, no friends, etc. What can't be proven by the Bible, is SPECULATION.

What does anyone know about the actual lives of those who tell us what the Bible is supposed to say? We know only what we are told by them, or we know very little at all. With whom do we trust our eternal souls? There is NOBODY on this earth, including those who have died, who have EVER had absolute truth EXCEPT our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think my story is similar to any other Christian who has gone through life and come to Christianity. Why should anyone listen to me? I haven't a clue!! But, I've always liked passing on what I've learned to others...so maybe God has given me the spiritual "gift" of a teacher (I Cor.chapter 12). I don't know this for sure, but I love to study and write about it...or pass it on to others. If I don't, I feel incomplete inside myself.

For the last 70 years, I've been through almost anything a person can go through...pain, joy, suffering, death of loved ones, divorce, loss of children, loss of friends, rejection, elation, success in career, shame, loss of self respect, wealth, loneliness, etc. I've been through ALL of those things. There are only two things that I can think of which I have never suffered through....poverty or hunger. I've always been blessed with a roof over my head and food to eat. God has always been with me, even when I didn't realize or understand it.

As I contemplate my beliefs through life, I have sincerely followed many things other people have taught, and I have done a thorough study on all of them including Theosophy, Buddhism, New Age, and almost all of the different church doctrines. But the doctrine I believed for most of my years as a Christian was "dispensationalism" under the tutelage of Dr. Peter Ruckman. I've read every thing that gentleman wrote...and believed every word, even as "rough and gruff" as he was....I loved him and his way of thinking.

So, today, when I refute "dispensationalism", and any and all of the other church denominational beliefs, which only cause divisiveness amongst the "one body of Christ", I know what I'm talking about. I have learned this by REALLY studying the Bible by myself and UNDERSTANDING what the Holy Spirit was teaching to me. I have FINALLY realized that the "Jews" were not God's "chosen people" because ISRAEL is, and always has been!! Israel is the name God gave to all believers/followers of God, and not just to a specific race of people....all through the Bible.


John 3:16-18..."For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (vs17) For God sent not his Son into the WORLD to condemn the world; but that the WORLD though Him might he saved."

But, it's verse 18 that brings out a major truth..."He that believeth on Him is not condemned (Israel/believers): but he that BELIEVETH NOT (people called "Jews" follow Judaism and hate Jesus Christ)is CONDEMNED already, because he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."


The "bottom line" of all this is that NONE of us have the total truth. There are PIECES of the truth coming from multiple sources, and we just have to have the DISCERNMENT to pick out the ones which have a true, biblical basis....and THROW OUT THE REST!

By refusing to listen to ANYONE who does not follow the same doctrine that you do is just the same as "throwing the baby out with the bath water". That's pure ignorance (IGNOREance]!! NOBODY, except Jesus Christ, has ever had perfect knowledge of God and His purposes.

Dr.Peter Ruckman taught me valuable lessons, as did Chuck Missler, I.D.E.Ice, Charles Stanley, Rob Skiba, Steve Quayle, Stan Deyo, Billy Graham, J.R.Church and Gary Stearman, David Pack, M.J.Agee, J. Preston Eby, and Dr. Lorraine Day...plus hundreds of others from whom I have heard or read literature. Do I believe the TOTAL doctrines of ANY OF THEM? Absolutely not! But I have sifted through ALL the information and retained what I felt was the truth in the Bible.

Shouldn't we all do everything we can to learn as much as possible about the truth WITHOUT listening to just ONE MAN? God has put many of His "pieces" in different places, and through different people. The "one body" is made up of many people...and it's up to us to sift out the truth, and not just from ONE denomination or ONE person.

Arlene

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