Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 



While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)



To Join and post on this site e-mail for a password


FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rapture-Bible-Prophecy-Forum/362856490414697

Hebrew 5783-5788   Gregorian 2023-2028

 We are followers of Yahusha/JESUS Only​​​​​​​
Yahusha/JESUS is YHVH/GOD/YHWH-Yahusha/Son:
​​​​​​​Yahusha/JESUS is The WORD

Yahusha is I Am That I Am  (Exodus 3:14)

Yahusha is YHWH  come in the flesh, He put aside His Diety to become a human, born of  a Virgin.

Yahusha is the Word, As The Most High, He spoke all things seen and unseen into existence

When YHWH created Light, He was revealed to the angels. 

John 14:26
"the breath of life"

But the Comforter, which is "the breath of life", whom the Father will send shall teach you all things.

God is not His  Name but a term.  The Holy Spirit is not a person but the very Breath of the Father.

There is no Trinity.  The Father, YHVH  and Yahusha are One  (John 10:30)






Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa





All Of The Apocryphal Books Of

The King James 1611 Version


Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's  return!

Bible Prophecy Forum Postings
Start a New Topic 
Mathman:"When we assign "MUSTs and CAN'Ts" where we shouldn't, are we trying to limit the Lord

Our New Website URL
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!

Mathman (28 Feb 2013)
"When we assign "MUSTs and CAN'Ts" where we shouldn't, are we trying to limit the Lord's flexibility?"


Dear Doves,

Even if you have always refused to read what I have had to say in the past, I prayerfully request that you to at least consider what I have written below.

Quite simply, when it comes to prophecy, we are constantly stepping on landmines. When one steps on one of these landmines, the owner of the landmine instantly becomes irate and tries to blow you apart. Only prayer, along with stubbornly sticking with what the Bible ACTUALLY says, can prevent this spiritual shrapnel from tearing your views apart.

So what do I mean by landmines. Landmines are things that people have assigned the words MUST and CAN’T to even when the Bible doesn’t correspond with these limitations. Indeed, so many “COULDs” in the Bible have become MUSTs or CAN’Ts, many relatively recently, that we REALLY need to step back and look at this. In summary:

When we assign MUSTs and CAN’Ts where we shouldn’t, are we trying to limit the Lord’s flexibility?

Now please don’t misinterpret what I am saying here. Obviously, the Bible has a whole TON of extremely clear MUSTs and CAN’Ts in it, along with just as many THOU SHALLs and THOU SHALL NOTs. I do not take any issue at all with these, nor should anyone else (after all, you either believe the Bible is infallible or not). Indeed, an (extremely) shortened list of just a few of the MUSTs and CAN’Ts I fully agree with are as follows:

- You MUST believe you are a sinner needing Christ to atone for your sins or you WILL go to Hell, no ifs ands or buts

- You CAN’T find eternal salvation in any other way – there is only One Way, the Truth, THE WAY and the Light, Jesus Christ – there are NO other paths (as Oprah proclaims, the false teacher she is)

- Israel MUST exist prior to Christ returning (it does)

- The Gentiles (which excludes the Church, but includes the apostate church) MUST hate Israel prior to Christ returning (it does)

- The Anti-Christ MUST become possessed before he officially becomes the Anti-Christ (he will be, but he isn’t yet and won’t be until after the Rapture)

The list of REAL MUSTs and CAN’Ts goes on and on and on, but I will stop here as this is NOT the purpose of this article. The purpose of this article is to list some of the things that watchers (and other Christians) believe MUST or CAN’T occur that really should be listed as COULD occur. On that note, here it goes:

- The Post-Rapture Tribulation Period MUST be seven years long, beginning with a peace treaty between Israel and the world, brokered by the Anti-Christ: I ask each of you to step back and ask yourself, “Does the Bible TRULY say this ANYWHERE?” I honestly believe it does NOT and could not even be construed as saying this unless one takes a whole bunch of long-shot personal interpretations and magically turn them into “facts”.

Daniel 9:27, essentially the only Bible verse that people seem to use to prove this so-called necessity, has many, many possible interpretations. Some excellent interpretations including that it has been already fully or half fulfilled by Jesus Himself. With respect to this, I acknowledge that COULD be the case, especially when one considers that the unfulfilled second half could easily equate to the wrath of God for the Jews and others rejecting His Son during the first half (which most believe “just happens” to be the length of His ministry, 3.5 years, during His first coming).

Allow me to put this another way: IF the Post-Rapture tribulation length of seven years (or more) is so incredibly important to God, why is such importance not emphasized by the Lord in the Bible. In contrast, the Bible mentions the 42 month / 3.5 year / 1260 day / “time, times and half a time”, over and over again! Why, because it’s that important to Him. Again, where is this “equally important” (to some) 7 year period in the Bible.

In other words, if the “7 Year Post-Rapture Peace Treaty Tribulation Period” was so important to the Lord, wouldn’t God have given it at least SOME clarity in the Bible? Yet, instead, there is not even a single cursory mention or clarification.

That being said, I believe that we ARE already in a specific Lord-marked 7 year final period that began with a first half of “the beginning of hardships” (though, again, not a requirement). I have personally defined this “beginning of hardships”, along with further stage preparation for the eventual One World Government and the entrance of the Anti-Christ, as beginning in earnest with the September / October 2008 Global Financial Crisis that continues to this day. This contained the LARGEST stock market drop in history, including a 777.68 point drop on the Feast of Trumpets 2008 (was God making it obvious for us? I agree with Randy that He was). Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “MUST” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”.

- The Anti-Christ MUST be from the revived Roman Empire: Quite simply, the people of the prince to come ALREADY destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. This is a completely fulfilled prophecy. The prince to come was Titus, a Roman general, but also a true Roman prince that was also called Prince Titus. Before I continue on this, and based on past reaction to this statement, I must formally state, up front, that I absolutely do NOT believe a resurrected Prince Titus will be the Anti-Christ!

Quite simply, in Daniel, it was prophesied that the “people of the prince to come will destroy the temple”. That is exactly what they ALREADY did almost 2000 years ago!! Indeed, the Roman soldiers, the people of the prince to come, Prince Titus in specific, under orders from the prince himself, completely destroyed the temple in 70 AD, with every block overturned, just like Jesus said it would. This is a historically documented and undisputed FACT. Is it not just like us fallible humans to try to make more out of this simple prophecy than what it was?

Sadly, this “of Roman descent requirement” seems to have permeated the prophecy community and is one of the primary reason so many folks eliminate Obama from contention as the Anti-Christ. There are other reasons, of course, including an individual’s personal disdain and perhaps even denial. Some simply say Obama is just not smart enough, debonair enough, charismatic enough, etc.

This denial occurs with so many despite there not being a single alternative world leader that even comes close to matching Obama’s perfect pedigree and anointing as “the evil one” to watch as the New World Order continues to rise. I would take Kissinger at his word when he said that Obama had been handpicked to be the leader of the NWO. After all, Kissinger is acknowledged by many to be the second most important person in the precursor to the One World Government next to David Rockefeller. Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “MUST” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”.

- The 7 year Tribulation MUST begin with the Rapture / Peace Treaty, with the first half being relatively peaceful: IF there is a first 3.5 year half AFTER the Rapture, which I believe there won’t be, many people feel this will be a peaceful period. That seems impossible to me!! Just imagine the chaos after the Rapture / Sudden Destruction. Millions of people, many in key positions of authority, will disappear in the Rapture, including, IMO, all children under the age of accountability as long as they had at least one believing parent (some feel ALL children period, which I also feel is possible).

Somehow this will be a peaceful time? How?? Peace and safety then Sudden Destruction, as promised in the Bible, means exactly that. If one really thinks about it, it seems impossible to consider millions of people suddenly disappearing in the Rapture to NOT be part of the Sudden Destruction / beginning of the Great Tribulation. And, if so, and to be even more succinct, does that not mean the world is to be propelled directly into the Great Tribulation once the Rapture occurred?

To reiterate, and as outlined above, I do not see a 7 year Post-Rapture Tribulation period as being a requirement when the Bible instead specifically stresses a 42 month period of Great Tribulation (with perhaps some lead-in time, most likely weeks or a few months at the most, after the Rapture / Sudden Destruction) over and over again. Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “MUST” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”.

- The False Prophet CAN’T be the Pope: There are so many people that have written about the Roman Catholic Church (the “RCC” as the end-times apostasy church to head the One World Religion (PERHAPS somehow mixed with the remnants of the Post Ezekiel 38 / 39 Islam world), I will leave it to each of you to research this on your own. And if the RCC is the end-times “church”, then the leader of the RCC, the Pope, by definition, will have a prominent role, PERHAPS as the False Prophet. This simply seems intuitive to me. Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “CAN’T” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”.

- People that don’t believe in a 7 year Post-Rapture Tribulation Period with a peace treaty MUST believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture: In most cases, this is simply an unintentional misrepresentation of our position, one that we have counter-argued against time and time again. Many of us who do not believe in a 7 year Post-Rapture Tribulation Period (perhaps starting with a peace treaty) are not any less than 100% unbendable believers in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture than you are.

Please allow me to be perfectly clear. The Sudden Destruction / Great Tribulation Period / Anti-Christ Build Up and Take Over will not begin, in any form whatsoever, until AFTER the Rapture. Quite simply, the Ultimate Groom would never beat up His Bride just before marrying Her. It just wouldn’t make any sense. In other words, and for even greater clarity, just because I believe that the Post-Rapture Tribulation Period (which we are NOT in, but rather in a 3.5 year period I call the “beginning of hardships”, a prelude to Great Tribulation) will be substantially less than 7 years does NOT, in any way shape or form, mean I believe in anything but the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “MUST” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”, wherein, in our specific case, the word “MAY” should be replaced with the words “DOES NOT”.

- The Third Temple MUST be rebuilt before the Great Tribulation can begin: According to God Himself, the Temple of God is now our hearts and NOT a physical Third Temple to reside in Jerusalem. But don’t take my word for it. 1 Corinthians 6:19 makes this abundantly clear, which ensures us the “deal” changed forever Post-Jesus. If you really consider this, the heart is where Satan will sit, using the Mark of the Beast, to send the receiver of such mark to hell. Quite simply, taking the Mark of the Beast = Satan sitting in the “Temple of God” (your heart) = an irrevocable ticket to Hell.

Sadly, there are so many that believe that they do not have to even watch for the Lord’s return until they see the Third Temple being rebuilt. How truly sad!! How many people will miss out on the “Watcher’s Crown” by not longing to see His return directly due to this “requirement” misinterpretation? Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “MUST” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”.

- The Holy Place MUST be the Third Temple: Zechariah 2:8 indicates that Jerusalem is the apple of God’s eye. As such, by definition, the Lord Himself has elevated Jerusalem over all other places on earth. IMO, this makes Jerusalem just as likely to be THE Holy Place as the alternatives. For the same reasons as listed in the previous point, what a tragedy it is that so many are not watching for the Lord’s return due to this perceived precursor of the need for a physical Third Temple in Jerusalem first. Brothers and sisters in Christ, the word “MUST” in the opening sentence needs to be changed to “MAY”.

Now I ask you to think back to all of the information on Five Doves you may have summarily dismissed simply due to some of your preconceived notions of MUSTs and CAN’Ts. Or perhaps you didn’t even read something at all because you have been misled into thinking we are believers in the Post-Tribulation Rapture or, even worse, are anti-Scriptural (which couldn’t be further from the truth). If so, some of you COULD be missing seeing and acknowledging some of the most thrilling developments in prophecy being fulfilled in the entire history of the world RIGHT NOW.

To emphasize this, I am going to once again list the above points in their new context and in summary format:

- While the Post-Rapture Tribulation period could have been seven years long, perhaps even beginning with a peace treaty between Israel and the world, brokered by the Anti-Christ, it certainly does not HAVE to be. Nor, IMO, does it appear to even be a possibility now, given the rapid advancement of prophetic events in recent months that APPEAR to point to a rapid Great Tribulation and NOT a drawn out 7 year period. As such, it is my opinion that there will be no peace treaty and the Great Tribulation will last not much longer than 42 months (possibly a few months at most for some additional lead-in after the Rapture occurs)

- The Anti-Christ MAY be from the revived Roman Empire, but certainly does not HAVE to be. Ironically, it could even be that Obama, IF he turns out to be the Anti-Christ as so many believe he will, COULD be from the revived Roman Empire (as no one truly knows his background, he is truly a man of mystery). It has been noted by some that an ancestry expert was able to prove that Obama was actually a distant cousin of Antiochus (which, if true, could become incredibly fitting). At the very least, if Obama had actually been born in Hawaii, how much more “rising from the sea” (as Revelation indicates the Beast will be) can you get?

- The first 3.5 years of the 7 year Post-Rapture Tribulation, if it actually was a requirement, WOULDN’T be peaceful at all. IMO, and as stated above, the Great Tribulation will last not much longer than a few months more than the 42 months allotted, and will, IMO, not even be close to 7 years. We have already experienced over 42 months of the “beginning of hardships” since the GFC began, the precursor, but this is NOT Tribulation as defined in the Bible. As an example of just how horrible it will be IMMEDIATELY after the Rapture, imagine if you had mocked Christianity and the Jews, then had your children taken in the Rapture, along with your believing spouse, and you still didn’t truly understand or believe where they were taken. Would you be in peace? Even if someone left behind had no children of their own, what about their favorite niece or nephew or friend’s daughter or son suddenly missing, along with their brothers or sisters or friends? IMO, ALL those who are left behind will be affected and in GREAT distress. As just another example, imagine if you were left behind and now believed in all the judgments that were soon to come. Imagine how great the stress would be knowing that the Great Persecution was about to commence and you would most likely soon be tortured and beheaded, if you were “lucky” enough to survive all of the tragedies to come.

- The False Prophet MAY be the Pope, but does not HAVE to be. While the Pope doesn’t HAVE to be the False Prophet, it is my personal opinion that the next Pope will most likely be the last one and will probably be the False Prophet

- People that don’t believe in a 7 year Post-Rapture Tribulation Period MAY believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture. While some who believe this may believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture, just to confirm and clarify to all of you, those I know that are of like mind, including me, absolutely do not believe, in any way, believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture. For even greater clarity, we have been and remain 100% PRE-Tribulation Rapture all the way

- The Third Temple MAY be rebuilt before the Great Tribulation begins, but certainly does not have to be. IMO, the Temple of God already exists in us, the hearts of His children, as specifically outlined in the Bible (take His Word for it, not mine). However, it COULD also be rebuilt in an unexpected form (to most), perhaps in a tent-like Tabernacle form used in the time of Moses (but it also MAY not be).

- The Holy Place MAY be the Third Temple, but certainly does not have to be. IMO, this is yet another mythical requirement (wherein it still COULD be built), wherein the Holy Place could just as easily be that burdensome stone, Jerusalem

Important Note on the Third Temple: As I said above, there COULD still be a Third Temple in the very near future, wherein such temple may not simply be a spiritual interpretation (our hearts) as I outlined above as a very real, Scripturally sound, interpretation. However, such Temple may still not be in the form most think of when they visualize a massive temple made with great blocks as the First and Second Temple were. Indeed, there are other possibilities for what the "temple of God" could be referring to. One of those is J.R. Church's Biblical interpretation, that this is referring to the construction of a "tabernacle", or tent-like structure, not an elaborate 3rd Temple. If this turns out to indeed by “the Holy Place” and the “temple of God”, such a tabernacle would only take days to construct, and certainly not years. Again, no one, including me, can be 100% sure of how exactly all of this will unfold. Only God does, so let’s leave it to Him.

In summary, if you have believed in any or all of the “MUST requirements” and “CAN’T requirements” as listed above, you may have found that you have:

- Accidentally disregarded Obama as an incredibly strong candidate for the Anti-Christ

- Accidentally disregarded the next Pope as an incredibly strong candidate for the False Prophet

- Accidentally disregarded Obama’s upcoming visit to Jerusalem as a very real possibility to fulfill the prophecy of “when you see the Abomination standing in the Holy Place, the Great Tribulation will soon begin” (“soon” = NOT date setting as I don’t truly know how “soon” the word “soon” means to the Lord J)

- Accidentally disregarded that the world may soon be plunged into a rapid Great Tribulation Period that is much, much more condensed than the 7 year Post-Rapture period (which would supposedly contain some sort of peaceful period starting with a supposed peace treaty with Israel) – which, I reiterate, I am NOT saying CAN’T happen, but just IMO it appears unlikely

- Accidentally disregarded that we are in the end times since there is no Jerusalem Third Temple currently being built

- Accidentally disregarded that the temple of God already exists and has existed for over 2000 years, ever since Christ died for us on the cross, in the hearts of God’s children (whether they believe in Christ or not) or could instead exist in mere days by quickly putting up a tent-like Tabernacle (see Exodus for details)

Brothers and sisters in Christ, it is time to wake up to the possibilities. In no way am I saying that I, and those of similar views, MUST be right. Instead, I am asking that you at least consider that we have to say COULD be right.

If you would just review what we have written in the past again with an open mind, you just MAY find God wanting you to understand that events may not happen as you originally anticipated. Indeed, the Great Tribulation may be much closer and things may become much more tragic much sooner than most people, including even some watchers, could possibly believe for those who will soon be left behind.

In terms of considering reading (or reading) some of my recent material, if you feel so inspired, here are some titles / links of some material I have posted to Five Doves since the Pope announced his 1 in 600 year resignation on February 11, 2013:

March 22, 2013 to March 31, 2013 - The Ten Days of Awe?

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman216-1.htm

March 22, 2013: Will Cardinal Bertone be "crowned" the next Pope?

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman216-2.htm

Could we see TWO separation Abominations standing in the Holy / Unholy Places on March 22, 2013?

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman219.htm

According to Israel's official logo, the purpose of Obama's upcoming trip is to LITERALLY "confirm the covenant with many”

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman220.htm

Satan "sitting in the Temple of God" = The Mark of the Beast?

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman223.htm

Did the movie "Angels & Demons" point to Cardinal Bertone AND a new, but unknown, weapon of Mass Destruction?

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman226-2.htm

A Heart-felt Message to the "Rapture in the Air Now" Forum (which outlines some of the reasons I took the time to write this particular post)

(link: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2013/mathman226-3.htm

On a side note: Before I end this already long post, I would like to say that I really enjoy the open dialogue I have seen in the RITAN Forum. In particular, I have always enjoyed such stellar contributors as:

- The Moderators. In particular, I have always had a soft spot for Donna and VC – I am impressed that moderators allow the people to have the flexibility to express what is in their hearts without being suppressed and ridiculed

- Lisaleenie, a kind and gentle soul that longs to see the Lord in the sky (wherein we all need to continue praying for her health)

- TXThom, a brilliant and Biblical contributor

- Trumpets777, who discovered one of my posts on a different Forum, asked me to post on RITAN, which eventually led me to post here on Five Doves

- Scott, a person who loves searching for hidden patterns and puzzles from the Lord as much as I do (seriously, you are one driven individual – I admire that)

- AmyVG, who NEVER compromises her rock solid interpretations of the Word

- Gerry Almond, a frequent contributor to both Five Doves and RITAN and a much loved brother. Gerry is a like-minded person that has walked with me for over a year now, wherein his blatant love for the Lord has been such a blessing to me and so many others

- Navi Remnant, who speaks from the heart. By the way, I still haven’t actually read your questions to us as the format you used is so extremely hard to read on my computer that it gave me a headache (I gave up out of laziness). Also, I will pray that your “COOTIES” clear up soon - kiddingJ!!

- All those I didn’t name – each of you contribute so much to RITAN without realizing it. After all, is there any part of the body that is of waste – the head can’t move without the bottoms of the feetJ!!

* * * * * *