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Steve Coerper (14 Dec 2012)
"Jezebel Spirit"

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Dear John and Doves -

This is an ugly message but it needs to be said.

Jezebel was an evil, manipulative woman. She appears in the books of Kings in the Old Testament, and in the church in Thyatira in the new. She's known primarily for sexual immorality but I believe she manifests herself in other way, primarily rebelliousness (which is as the sin of witchcraft) and an unsubmissive spirit. She may show many of the virtues of the Proverbs 31 woman in that she rises up early and works diligently. But she has a real problem with Ephesians 5.

I mention this because it appears to me that the eschatological community is the "happy hunting ground" for this spirit. Many of us are in what would be called "unequal yokes." We long for the return of the Lord and watch for the signs, as He commanded. But one may have a spouse who is completely unconcerned: indifferent at best and hostile at worst. We've all seen it. What I have also seen is highly-motivated women who think that because their husbands are not as "spiritual" as they are, that they need no longer submit to him.

"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord" does not appear to have exceptions or an escape clause. If a woman will not submit to her husband who she can see, how can she submit to the Lord, Who she cannot see? And especially when He has given her a direct command to submit? "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

"Submit" has become an ugly word, and now has Islamic overtones. So let's just say "respect" and you'll get the basic idea. I've seen women, and maybe you have also, who are working outside the home. As "career women," many have substantial incomes and get tremendous respect from their co-workers. And this can turn into contempt for their husbands. Some make more money than their husbands, and in this Babylonian world, this turns to arrogance. Some are more religious than their husbands, so they replace their husbands spiritual headship by making their pastor or minister into their spiritual head. This is immorality! In an extreme case, there was a woman who felt she was getting direct communications from God. She may have been getting communications from Him through her husband (God respects the chain of command), but he wasn't "spiritual" enough so she would not listen. I believe a seducing spirit may have gained entry at that point, and her dreams, visions and communications that she thought were from God were actually from the dark side. God did have a message for her: Ephesians 5:22. But she was to "spiritual" to listen. Her marriage is in shambles, her testimony is about destroyed, and her legal problems are just beginning.

THIS IS THE JEZEBEL SPIRIT! (Pardon my all-caps - I'm not yelling, just emphasizing). Bad stuff happens to Jezebel and to all who follow her example (Rev. 2:22). Wives: respect your husbands, even if they are unsaved or spiritually indifferent. Consider Esther - Ahasuerus was a tyrant. Need I say more??

I am truly frightened for some Christian women who are going to get some terrifying surprises when Jesus returns and holds them accountable for the shabby way they treat their husbands.

Steve
Anakypto Forum





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Steven

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Deborah W (18 Dec 2012)
"Steve C. Re: Jezebel"


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Steve,
I have seen many convicting items through the years regarding non-submission, Jezebel, etc... I'm not sure of my husband's salvation status, but I can say for sure that he is not serving the Lord routinely. I have stood convicted many times of acting as Jezebel. It is sincerely not my desire to drive my husband away from the Lord, but to draw him TO the Lord. I often open my mouth like Jezebel before I even know what I am saying. I know that this is a sure sign of a stronghold. (when you continually go down a road almost against your will). So, I went in my prayer closet (many times) to renounce Jezebel and repent. I just could not get to the bottom of why she thought she had permission to walk on me. Through a series of dreams/and visions, God revealed to me that when I was very young, I suffered a brutal act by a neighbor man. The same night I had the initial dream, God woke me like a bolt of lightening with the word Vashti. I immediately grabbed my bible and found in Esther 1:17 For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported the King Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not. Based on this verse I realized that through this heinous act of my neighbor, I picked up a Vashti spirit. Vashti was a defiant wife who refused her husband outright. Jezebel, when she heard of her husband's sadness, wrote a letter to get him the vineyard that he was coveting. To me, Vashti is the more defiant wife and Jezebel was more an over-bearing evil co-hort. I am still disentangeling myself from Vashti, Jezebel and Venus (I believe they were all working in tandem in my life), but I know that I will overcome, because my Jesus will complete the good work that he has started! I hope this helps someone else.

Sincerely,


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
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Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out

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John M Johnson (5 Jan 2013)
"re: Jezebel Spirit"


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Many times when discussions start about certain subjects, there is a question or a statement made that causes the discussion to begin in the middle rather than at the beginning. There is no foundation laid from which to erect a proper structure.



For a respectable dialog to take place a starting point must be determined. Once this occurs then it would be good to build from that point using the scriptures as the guide in order to garner the truth of the matter.



The lack of laying a groundwork or underpinning leads to many questions and disagreements, which then becomes a vicious circle of misunderstandings and confusion. One obvious example of this is the centuries old argument regarding “eternal salvation”. People quarrel and oppose one another about a subject that God most assuredly wants us to understand. Yet because there is no agreed upon common basis (within the scriptures) from which to begin, the squabble continues endlessly…much to the Father’s chagrin.



Likewise regarding the subject of “Husbands and Wives” starting in the middle has proven to be unprofitable. More often than not the discussion is begun by quoting a verse regarding how husbands need to love their wives or how wives need to be submissive to their husbands. Then because of the culture that we live in things quickly become about women being dominated and men being the oppressors. Thus, nothing is accomplished, no unity is established and generally much hurt is imparted.



All this may be avoided if an origination point were agreed upon and the fullness of the scriptures employed. Hopefully, what is written here will do that…it is not a guarantee that it shall be such but a genuine effort will be made towards that end.



What than is the beginning point? A perspective not often considered being a starting point for a “Husband/Wife” conversation is the principal of “first the natural and then the spiritual”.



Paul alludes to this principle in 1 Cor. 15:42-49 where he writes:



42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. ESV



Another place where this is brought forward is in Colossians 2:16-17 which states:



16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. KJV



Also in 1 Peter 2:5-6 we read:



5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ESV



What are these verses saying? It seems that they tell us that not only is there a natural realm but there is also a spiritual realm. These verses speak to this point. Just as there are natural sacrifices there are also spiritual sacrifices…our bodies being one such sacrifice (Rom. 12:1) and praise being another (Jer. 33:11).



Just as the new moon and Sabbath days speak of earthly (natural) feasts they hint at feasts yet to come in the spiritual reality. Jesus was the fulfillment of the Passover, first the natural Passover, then the spiritual Passover. The feast of Pentecost was a natural feast and was fulfilled spiritually. There are spiritual feasts yet to be fulfilled though the natural have taken place.



First the natural then the spiritual, the idea is in the scriptures. When Jesus said he that has ears to hear let him hear, he was referring to our spiritual ears. Just as we have physical ears we also have spiritual ears and just as we have physical eyes we also have spiritual eyes. Just as we have a physical heart we also have a spiritual heart.



This then will be the starting point of this discussion “first the natural then the spiritual”. Yet, how is this principal relevant to the “Husband/Wife” issue?



The scriptures teach that the first Adam was a “living being” whereas the last Adam (Jesus) is a life giving spirit. They show us that Adam was a type or representation of Christ (Rom. 5:14). Adam was the natural and Jesus is the spiritual.



Now, if Adam is representative of Jesus who then does Eve represent?



…to be continued


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj114.htm
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John M Johnson (14 Jan 2013)
"Re: Jezebel Spirit Part 2"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first part of what is written here can be found at the link below.



http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj15.htm



----------------------------------------------



Now, if Adam is representative of Jesus who then does Eve represent? It would seem that Eve represents the church. In Ephesians 5:23 we are told:



For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church…



Again we see that man (Adam) is the natural and Jesus is the spiritual. Furthermore we see that the woman/wife (Eve) is the natural and the church is the spiritual. So, here it is shown that the woman (Eve) is a representative or a natural picture of the church of Christ and the man (Adam) is a representative or a natural picture of Jesus.



Paul continues in Ephesians 5 to say; as Jesus loved the church so man is to love his wife as his own body, nourish and cherish her being willing to lay down his life for her just as Jesus did for the church…for no man ever hated his own body. Again the man is a picture of Jesus and the woman the church where she (the woman) is pictured as the body of the man even as the church is the body of Christ.



One place this picture is visible is in the account of Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit of “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”. In Gen 3:1-7 the narrative unfolds as follows:



1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"



2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'"



4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."



6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. NKJV



We have all heard and read this story and one thing that stands out is that Eve was the one who first took the fruit and ate the fruit. Yet according to the scriptures it was through Adam that all have been born into sin.



Rom. 5:14 - Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. ESV



1 Cor. 15:21-22 - 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. ESV



Why is Adam charged with the sin in the garden when it was Eve that initiated the process? The answer is twofold the first part being that as Christ laid down his life for the church so also Adam (a type of Jesus) laid down his life and became sin for his body/Eve (a type of the church). In other words he took on the sin of Eve by partaking of the fruit with her.



Secondly, according to the scriptures we learn that Eve was deceived into eating the fruit whereas Adam was not deceived but did eat willingly and knowingly. In 1 Tim 2:13-15 we examine these words:

13 For Adam was created first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. HCSB



Adam took upon himself the transgression of Eve just as Jesus took upon himself the transgressions of us all. This then established Adam (man), as what has come to be known, as the head of Eve (woman) just as Jesus is the head of his body the church. For Adam was charged with the sin not Eve and it is in Adam all die not in Eve.



The head as opposed to the body is something that causes much consternation in the Husband/Wife discourse. Nevertheless, it is a principal that God set forth in the scriptures beginning with Adam. However, it is not a principal only between man and woman it is also a principal between man and Jesus and Jesus and the Father. For all believers are under the headship of the Father.



1 Cor 11:3 - But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. NKJV



Though in our day and age scoffing may accompany any mention of “head” or “headship”, this principal is seen within the scriptures in various places. One place it is seen is in Num 1:2-4:



Take a census of all the congregation of the children of Israel, by their families, by their fathers' houses, according to the number of names, every male individually, from twenty years old and above — all who are able to go to war in Israel. You and Aaron shall number them by their armies. And with you there shall be a man from every tribe, each one the head of his father's house. NKJV



Again two things are seen here; first we notice that only men are to be counted to go to war and not women. Secondly we read that there was to be a representative for each tribe and that person was to be the “head” of his father’s house (i.e. the tribe).



The term “head” is used here speaking of the man who is leading “his father’s house”. It is the word “his” as in “his father’s house” that lets us know that it is a male. So, we can note that the principal of “headship” goes back quite a ways.



A curiosity that stands out is why only the men were counted in those that were able to go to war? In our day and age this would seem like an atrocity and there would be much protesting regarding this matter. Yet God being who He is knew best.



What is being shown to us here?



.....to be continued.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj119.htm
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John M Johnson (19 Jan 2013)
"RE: Jezebel Spirit Part 3"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first two parts may be found at the links below.

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj15.htm

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj114.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What is being shown to us here? It seems that God determined a role for man that he did not intend for the woman. God did not want women to go to war. He chose men, not boys, not women or girls but men. Men were to fight the enemy, go to battle, carry the sword, and bear the hardship of days without sleep or food in order to obtain victory for their families and nation. They were to protect the families and nation.



Not only were men to provide physical protection as in war but also for spiritual protection, first the natural than the spiritual. In Numbers 30 we find a chapter that deals with making vows before God. This chapter is 16 verses long. The first 2 verses speak of a man making a vow and keeping his vow:



Num 30:1-2 Moses told the leaders of the Israelite tribes, "This is what the LORD has commanded: 2 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or swears an oath to put himself under an obligation, he must not break his word; he must do whatever he has promised.



This is the portion to man. He must keep his vow. The next 14 verses pertain to women and vows. Please notice the exceptions as to how and why a woman’s vow may be consider void.



Num 30:3-16



3 "When a woman in her father's house during her youth makes a vow to the LORD or puts herself under an obligation, 4 and her father hears about her vow or the obligation she put herself under, and he says nothing to her, all her vows and every obligation she put herself under are binding. 5 But if her father prohibits her on the day he hears about it, none of her vows and none of the obligations she put herself under are binding. The LORD will absolve her because her father has prohibited her.



6 "If a woman marries while her vows or the rash commitment she herself made are binding, 7 and her husband hears about it and says nothing to her when he finds out, her vows are binding, and the obligations she put herself under are binding. 8 But if her husband prohibits her when he hears about it, he will cancel her vow that is binding or the rash commitment she herself made, and the LORD will forgive her.



9 "Any vow a widow or divorcée put herself under is binding on her.



10 "If a woman in her husband's house has made a vow or put herself under an obligation with an oath, 11 and her husband hears about it, says nothing to her, and does not prohibit her, all her vows are binding, and every obligation she put herself under is binding. 12 But if her husband cancels them on the day he hears about it, nothing that came from her lips, whether her vows or her obligation, is binding. Her husband has canceled them, and the LORD will absolve her. 13 Her husband may confirm or cancel any vow or any sworn obligation to deny herself. 14 If her husband says nothing at all to her from day to day, he confirms all her vows and obligations, which are binding. He has confirmed them because he said nothing to her when he heard about them. 15 But if he cancels them after he hears about them, he will be responsible for her commitment." 16 These are the statutes that the LORD commanded Moses concerning the relationship between a man and his wife, or between a father and his daughter in his house during her youth.



We see that the father or husband can protect the daughter or wife from a vow that may not be good for her to vow. The father or the husband for the benefit and safety of the daughter or wife can nullify a “rash commitment”. Furthermore, if he nullifies a vow he becomes responsible before the Lord for that vow, if indeed it was a valid vow and not a "rash commitment". This is spiritual protection and responsibility. Such leeway is not given to the man.



In 1 Samuel 1:8-28 we see the story of Elkanah and Hannah. Hannah vowed a vow unto the Lord that if the Lord gave her a son she would give him back to the Lord all the days of his life and no razor would come upon her son’s head. Elkanah could have nullified her vow, but he didn’t because he saw the value in it and allowed her vow to be fulfilled unto the Lord. As her head, her spiritual protection he was obligated before the Lord to make sure her vow was one that was good for her spiritually and that it was fulfilled (see v23).



Likewise in Judges 4 & 5 we see a woman named Deborah who was the wife of Lapidoth. She was a judge in Israel. Now a time came when Barak, a warrior in Israel, asked her to go with him as he went to fight Jabin’s army. She said she would go. Now consider, did her husband have the obligation to consider what his wife promised and could he have said no?



The man is physically stronger to help protect his family and nation, first the natural than the spiritual. Likewise in the spiritual the man is given the obligation to watch over his wife and family.



In 1 Peter 3:7 we read the following words:



7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. ESV



Here we see that a man’s prayers will be hindered or unanswered if he does not live in an honorable way towards his wife. Why? It is because she is weaker and God watches out for the weak. Do we ever see in scriptures where a woman’s prayers can be hindered? Do we ever see in scriptures where someone can nullify a man’s vow? Neither one can be found.



Is God treating the man unfairly?



....to be continued.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj122.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!

John M Johnson (22 Jan 2013)
"RE: Jezebel Spirit Part 4"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The links for the first 3 parts are below.



Part 1: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj15.htm

Part 2: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj114.htm

Part 3: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj119.htm





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Is God treating the man unfairly? No, he is not. It simply the role that God has chosen for the man. The man is to be a head to the woman as a protection and for safety. In the natural this protection and safety is from intruders, robbers, other men and enemies. In the spiritual the protection and safety is from deceivers, blasphemers, those who would teach error and all others that oppose the ways of Jesus. This is a role God has equipped men to be able to fulfill.



Likewise, he has given women a role, which they are equipped to fulfill. In Gen 2:18-25 we read the following account:



18 Then the Lord God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him." 19 So out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said,



"This at last is bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called Woman,

because she was taken out of Man."



24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. ESV



This is the story of when Eve was created. Within the story we see that the woman was created because God did not want man to be alone and because God wanted man to have someone to help him in the things God would have man to do upon the earth.



The oddity about this narrative is that first God made all the animals, birds and every type of creature before he brought forth the woman. Then before he fashioned the woman God paraded his creations before Adam who named all the creatures and yet there was not a helper found for Adam. Why did God do this? It would seem that God knew full well that he was going to bring forth the woman?



It would seem that God wanted Adam to realize that though there were all these things that God created out of the dust of the earth there was none that was able to help him in the ways he would need help. He was still alone. He still needed “someone” to help him. So, God then put Adam to sleep and took part of the man and fashioned the woman out of this portion.



When Adam saw her he was pleased and proclaimed that this was one that was part of him and came out of him. Then he gave her a name and called her woman for she came out of man. We see a little later that Adam gave his wife a proper name calling her Eve, because she was the mother of all living (Gen. 3:20). Adam now had a helper fit for him.



After the fall of Adam and Eve we see God’s proclamation of judgment for the their sin in Genesis 3:16-19:



To the woman he said,



"I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."



And to Adam he said,



"Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, 'You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return." ESV



Within the judgments we can also see the roles God has designed for both the man and the woman. For the woman we can see that her role was to help in the multiplication of mankind, she was to bear children. Her judgment was that it would now be more difficult for her in childbirth and though it would be more difficult she would still have a desire for her husband to have children through her.



For Adam we see that God was disappointed that he abdicated his responsibility of headship by listening to his wife and eating of the fruit God commanded him not to eat. It was Adam’s responsibility to inform his wife and give her guidance when she was somehow misguided. Rather he listened to his wife entreaty knowing full well it was wrong. As a result God cursed the ground to bring forth weeds so that man’s task in bringing forth food would be quite challenging to the point of sweat and sorrow. Furthermore, man (thus mankind) had to die and return to dust not being able to eat of the “tree of life”.



Adam bore the brunt of the judgment and the responsibility of the sin. Eve being deceived received a lesser judgment. This is a scriptural principal that can be seen in Luke chapter 12. Though Jesus is speaking of the end of the age and how judgment will be handed out, it is indicative of the way God acts toward us:



Luke 12:47-48 Now, that slave who knew the will of his master and did not make the necessary preparations or do his will, will be beaten with many stripes. But he that did not know, and did things worthy of blows, will be beaten with few stripes, for to everyone to whom much was given, much shall be required from him, and to whom much was entrusted, more they will ask.



Adam received “many stripes” in that his judgment was more severe yet Adam still retained the responsibility of headship for Eve. Eve received “few stripes” in that her judgment wasn’t as severe and yet Eve retained the responsibility of helper to Adam.



Thus Adam is the head and Eve is the helper, likewise Jesus is the head and the church is his helper. As Adam took upon himself the sin of his wife, so Jesus took upon himself the sin the church. As Adam laid down his life in sweat and sorrow to bring forth food for his wife and family, so Jesus laid down his life in sweat and sorrow that his church might partake of the bread of life.



As Eve helped Adam in bringing forth children and helping raise them, so the church helps Jesus bring forth spiritual children and helps raise them to maturity. As Eve helped Adam in various tasks to help accomplish the mission God gave him, so the church helps Jesus accomplish the mission God gave him.



The principal remains, first the natural and then the spiritual.



Now we come to the part where contention usually arises (if it hasn’t already) and that is the scripture verses in Ephesians 5:21-33.



...to be continued


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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj125-1.htm
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Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!

John M Johnson (25 Jan 2013)
"RE: Jezebel Spirit Part 5"


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The first 4 parts of this article can be found at the links below:



Part 1: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj15.htm

Part 2: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj114.htm

Part 3: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj119.htm

Part 4: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj122.htm



The original message to which I responded was written by Steve Coerper and can be found at the link below:



http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2012/stevec1214.htm



I kept the original title in my articles in order to keep a consistency as to why I was writing.





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Now we come to the part where contention usually arises (if it hasn’t already) and that is the scripture verses in Ephesians 5:21-33



21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church; 33 however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. RSV



The contention usually arises with idea of men being the head of the wife and women having to be submissive unto their husbands. People like to point out that verse 21 tells us to be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. That being the case there should be a mutual submission between the husband and the wife. This is true. However, it does not negate the roles that God himself has chosen for both the man and the woman.



Mutual submission does not mean mutual decision-making nor does it mean mutual headship. For it is first the natural and than the spiritual and within this passage we see that man is commanded to lay his life for his wife in order to sanctify her (i.e. the process of setting her apart unto God) that she might become holy (set apart unto God) and without blemish (mature). The man is told to love his wife as his own body because if he loves his wife he loves himself. This is the man’s role as head to his wife as Jesus is the head of his church.



So, if a man is to lay down his life does that mean the wife does not have to lay down her life? No, we see in other parts of the scriptures that if anyone wants to follow Jesus they must deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow him. Is denying oneself and laying down ones life equivalent to one another? It would seem so especially when picking up ones cross is a metaphor for dying. Furthermore we are all called to present our bodies as a living sacrifice (Rom. 12:1) and a sacrifice it called to die.



If a man is to love his wife as himself does that mean the wife does not have to love her husband; does that mean she not have to care for him as she cares for herself? No, the scriptures tell us to love one another (John 15:27). They also tell us in Romans 12:10 that we are to…



…Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another… NKJV



In fact there are more than 50 “one another” statements in the scriptures that are given to help guide us in our walk amongst other believers in Jesus. None of these statements negate the more specific statements given to the husband and wife. Thus when Jesus said that we are to love one another it does not nullify the more specific statement that a man is to love his wife. Because Jesus said we are to deny ourselves and pick up our cross to follow him it does not invalidate Paul’s admonishment for husband’s to lay down their lives for their wives.



Thus when Paul states in Ephesians 5 that we are to be subject or submissive to one another it does not cancel the more specific statement that follows regarding the wife being submissive to her husband. For it is first the natural and than the spiritual and in this case a husband laying down his life for his wife shows forth the mystery of Jesus laying down his life for his church. By the wife being subject to her husband “in all things” it shows the attitude of the church towards Jesus and how we are submissive to him in all things.



The man is the head of the woman as Jesus is the head of the church, the man is to love his wife and nourish her as Jesus loves and nourishes his church. The man is to lay down his life for his wife that she might be sanctified unto God just as Jesus laid down his life that the church might be sanctified unto God.



The woman is the body to man as the church is the body to Jesus. The woman is to be subject unto the man just as the church is to be subject unto to Jesus. The woman is to make sure that she respects her husband just as the church has honor for Jesus.



These are the roles God has chosen for the man and the woman. To go around these roles or to try and change the roles God has given us is to defy God. Therefore, the man is to love his wife and lay his life down for her whether or not she is willing to be the kind of wife to which God calls her. The woman is to be subject to her husband as the church is subject to Jesus (Eph. 5:24) whether or not he is willing to be the kind of husband to which God calls him. These commands are not dependent upon the other half doing what God commands them to do, they are only dependent upon our obedience…although it does make it easier to obey them when the other person is also obeying.



These are the roles God has laid out for the man and the woman. He did this to show a picture to us about our relationship with Jesus. As Paul says at the end of the Ephesians 5 passage:



"For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church…”



The man and the woman picture our relationship with Jesus. The two become one. Yet as we have seen it does not stop there, for the man represents Jesus and the woman the church.



Taking these things into account there is another scripture that causes much debate and that is the one found in 1 Tim 2:5-15 where we read Paul’s words to Timothy in regards to various church instructions:



5 For there is but one God and but one Mediator between God and men--Christ Jesus, Himself man; who gave Himself as the redemption price for all--a fact testified to at its own appointed time, and of which I have been appointed a herald and an Apostle (I am speaking the truth: it is not a fiction), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.



8 So then I would have the men everywhere pray, lifting to God holy hands which are unstained with anger or strife; and I would have the women dress becomingly, with modesty and self-control, not with plaited hair or gold or pearls or costly clothes, but--as befits women making a claim to godliness--with the ornament of good works.



11 A woman should quietly learn from others with entire submissiveness.



12 I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain quiet.



13 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but his wife was thoroughly deceived, and so became involved in transgression.



15 Yet a woman will be brought safely through childbirth if she and her husband continue to live in faith and love and growing holiness, with habitual self-restraint. - Weymouth Translation



Remember, first the natural than the spiritual, so if this is a natural picture what is the spiritual picture?


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

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