Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/boba421.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Bob Anderson (21 Apr 2012)
"RE: Denis Hart and Israel as a whole today"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh wow, how did I ever miss this? Denis & Barry, you'll be interested in Steve Collins


http://stevenmcollins.com/homepage.php


I've read ALL of his books, and they're pretty much in agreement with the biblesearchers link. He has a free or almost free ebook available for download.


Some points: Both biblesearchers and Collins use YAIR DAVIDLEY as an important source. Collins, when he learned of Davidley's existence, actually made a trip to Israel to confer with him. The substance of their meeting was that they agreed in essence but disagreed on some details. While I've scanned Davidley's work, I haven't done any serious reading of it -- he's difficult to follow. But, if the Lord continues to tarry, and I live long enough, I'll get to it real soon


Now, according to Collins:


Both the Sythians and the Parthinians were displaced Israelites. Parthia ultimately repaid Assyria by grinding them to powder. Partha was a civilization possible exceeding Rome. These were no simple Nomads. They conquered Persia. Cyrus was killed in the culminating battle with Parthia.


Parthia actually swept down and regained Israel for a while. They were disappointed to find such a small country. Judah much preferred the Parthian rule to the Roman rule. The Parthians were noted for being terrible in battle and merciful in victory, and they regarded their battle with Rome for Israel as a war of liberation.


Collins presents overwhelming evidence that the WISE MEN were Parthian. Herod was on the hot seat. Parthia and Rome were in an uneasy truce at the time, and if Herod ticked off the Parthinians, restarting on going war, his head would role.


The Parthians were probably the "white" Indians and Chinese.


The culminating battle between Rome and Parthia was about 300 AD. The Romans were defeated at terrible cost, and the exhaustion of Parthian resources enabled Persia to successfully revolt and start driving the Parthians and Sythians through rhe Caucasus (CAUCASIAN) Mountains into Europe, where they morphed into the various tribes.


Long before, during David's and Solomon's empire and afterwards, there was an Israelite/Phoenician presence in England, not to mention strong evidence for their presence in America. Phoenicia was technically a vassal state, although in practice they were junior partners. The Phoenician "EMPIRE" was actually Israel's Empire.


A killer piece of evidence for ancient presences in America comes from Gavin Menzies' LOST EMPIRE OF ATLANTIS.


http://www.gavinmenzies.net/


Clearly copper was THE prime commodity of the time. All copper ore except that from Michigan's upper peninsula contains arsenic. A wreck was found in the Mediterranean with ingots from Michigan.


PARTING (PARTHIAN) SHOT (THE PARTHIANS WOULD APPEAR TO RETREAT AND THEN DEVASTATE THE PURSUIT WITH OVER THE SHOULDER ARROW SHOTS)


I could write another book just reviewing Collins and Menzies, but I will refrain. We, in America, are Manassah. The 144,000 will largely come from Europe, America and parts of the former British empire.


Maranatha,


Bob




Barry Amundsen (20 Apr 2012)
"Denis Hart and Israel as a whole today"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Denis,

Very interesting post!

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/denish419.htm

I lean toward your latter suggestion that possibly England and the United States are in view in these prophecies.

As part of their punishment Israel (non Jew and therefore gentile) was to lose the awareness of their identity but not who their Lord was while Judah did the opposite ("A light to lighten the gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel" that has never applied to Jews and Jesus sent His disciples to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel.) Judah would not recognize who their messiah was but would always know that they were the Jews and Israel would receive their Messiah but not know who they themselves were. But there was a time limit for both of these and it involves 2520 in each case.

For Israel, the ten tribes it was to be that many years before they would begin to uncover the truth of who they were. This brings it to the mid 1800's from the time of the tribes captivity by first Babylon (took Judah) and then Assyria (began to take the northern Israel tribes) and when archeology began to uncover the evidence of who the "Lost Tribes of Israel" were the subject was quickly grabbed by the devil and distorted until serious investigations into it were frowned on and it was pushed to the fringes of acceptability. Once again you have to go to an extra-biblical book of 2 Esdras to learn some details.

ch. 13:
39 - And as for your seeing him gather to himself another multitude that was peaceable,

40 - these are the ten tribes which were led away from their own land into captivity in the days of King Hoshea, whom Shalmaneser the king of the Assyrians led captive; he took them across the river, and they were taken into another land.

41 - But they formed this plan for themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the nations and go to a more distant region, where mankind had never lived,

42 - that there at least they might keep their statutes which they had not kept in their own land.

43 - And they went in by the narrow passages of the Euphrates river.

44 - For at that time the Most High performed signs for them, and stopped the channels of the river until they had passed over.

45 - Through that region there was a long way to go, a journey of a year and a half; and that country is called Arzareth.

46 - "Then they dwelt there until the last times; and now, when they are about to come again,

47 - the Most High will stop the channels of the river again, so that they may be able to pass over. Therefore you saw the multitude gathered together in peace.

48 - But those who are left of your people, who are found within my holy borders, shall be saved.

49 - Therefore when he destroys the multitude of the nations that are gathered together, he will defend the people who remain.

50 - And then he will show them very many wonders."

51 - I said, "O sovereign Lord, explain this to me: Why did I see the man coming up from the heart of the sea?"

52 - He said to me, "Just as no one can explore or know what is in the depths of the sea, so no one on earth can see my Son or those who are with him, except in the time of his day.

53 - This is the interpretation of the dream which you saw. And you alone have been enlightened about this,

54 - because you have forsaken your own ways and have applied yourself to mine, and have searched out my law;

55 - for you have devoted your life to wisdom, and called understanding your mother.

56 - Therefore I have shown you this, for there is a reward laid up with the Most High. And after three more days I will tell you other things, and explain weighty and wondrous matters to you."


The following from here:

http://www.biblesearchers.com/hebrewchurch/primitive/losttribesisrael11.shtml

Within this land, the Getae tribes lived along the shores of the Danube River that was called Arsareth in the prophetic Book of Esdras.

When we consider that the word, “Getae” actually meant “wanderers” which the word, “Saki” also meant, we begin to see that the ancient tribes that were migrating to the west firmly believed that they were accursed by their God again to roam in the wilderness like their ancestors, the children of Israel when they rebelled against going into Canaan, the Promised Land promised to them by the God of their forefathers; Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Even so, according to Herodotus, they preserved many of the elevated concepts of the Immortal One, including the belief of a future immortality, and going after their death to “Zalmoxis”, or the “God of Moses”. They even called their country of domicile, “Moesia” for it was there that the “people of Moses” lived there. (Frederick Haberman, “Tracing our Ancestors”, pg 129)


Then there were the Sacae-Suni which if read in Hebrew actually pointed to the actual landmark or origins; “The Sons of Isaac”. The Sakas were recognized as central Asian nomadic tribes that spoke an eastern Iranian language. Yet, most scholars fail to connect the dots – the Saka or Sacae were actually the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that had now been scattered all over the globe.

Genesis 21:12 – “In Isaac shall thy seed be called.”



...Modern world rulers, now identified as descendants from the Lost Tribes of the House of Israel during the Assyrian exile are just now becoming a global phenomenon of identity. It is their prophetic return, as well as millions of others lost, Jews and Israelites, into the woodwork of the Nations of England, Ireland and Scotland, plus France, Germany, and the northern Scandinavian nations of Denmark (Danmark), Norway, and Finland. We may now witness with our “spiritual eyes” wide open when we understand the genetic implications of our modern world leaders.


I believe that in order for end times prophecy to be fulfilled this understanding of who these people are must become more widely known. Many have suggested that the United States must be wiped out in order for prophecies to be fulfilled because they do not see it in the prophecies. But they would if they knew who it is. The stick for JOSEPH (all the commonwealth nations including USA) and the stick for Judah will be joined together again and become one people again.

That is when all the other nations of the world will be gathered together against Israel as a whole. That has not happened yet but has been shaping up. NATO in general almost sets those lines. If you understand that the United States is part of Israel then Ezekiel will make sense. Many are still looking for Israel in the middle east to become a "land of unwalled villages dwelling in safety" before the prophecies can be fulfilled. Well, they will wait a long time for that because it's not going to happen but the USA already fits that description. What is going to happen is that when Gog and Magog invades Israel in Palestine an evil thought comes into their head that was not part of that current invasion but a new invasion into another part of Israel where the people DO dwell in a land of unwalled villages at rest, which is this United States. This country will have already sent huge numbers of troops over to defend Israel in the middle east and there will be the temptation for Russia to COME UP from Central America (remember Col. Oliver North's slide show? They have huge conventional warfare troops built up down there, why?) to take a spoil from this country that is largely unprotected. God will have a huge number of His people come back to Him when this happens which could be very soon. God always used invading armies to rouse His people back to Him.

All of this is part of the end times scenario but I hope to be gone by then and only with my eyes see any of this...




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

I happened upon this post of the past regarding the Book of Esdras in which there are some interesting conversation going on. Here is the one paragraph enclosed; which speaks exactly my own sentiments. gerlinda