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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/donnad411-1.htm

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Donna Danna (11 Apr 2012)
"TO: BRUCE WARNER -- Is The Rapture Before or After The Sealing of the 144,000"


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In your post at http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/brucew49-1.htm
you stated
"On the same Day, just after our rapture, the 144,000 are going to be sealed by an angel of God. AFTER that is done 'ALL WRATH' is going to break loose!"

In Revelation 7:1-8, the 144,000 are first sealed. Then Rev. 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Since 1 Corin. 15:52-53 shows our bodies being changed from mortal to immortal in a twinkling of an eye (at the rapture), why wouldn't the 144,000 be sealed first as shown in Rev. 7:1-8, and the rapture take place after the sealing of the 144,000?




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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Steven


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Our New Website URL
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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/mikep414-1.htm

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Mike Plunkett (14 Apr 2012)
"To DONNA DANNA and ALL DOVES.....regarding--Is the rapture before or after the sealing of the 144,000? Who goes when? WHO'S WHO??"


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Hi everyone,

I have an answer to your question Donna, read my post at http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/mikep326-2.htm

THEN read post http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/mikep327.htm

When reading Revelations, I think people are injecting to much of their preconceived ideas into the text. If read without these notions, one can find that the TRUTH flows freely. I know about what it says about the rapture in the New Testament and I believe that the firstfruits rapture is the 144,000, because that is what it says at Revelations 14:4. The above posts lays this out. There are 4 places in Revelations that specificly mentions people being "taken up", going up, or whatever you want to call it.

The second post, 327, I discoverred afterwords about the 144,000 being specificly mentioned at Revelations 14:4 being the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb. The "church" is so far out in space right now that it is easy to see why Jesus said in Mathew 15:2......Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? Mathew15:9......But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mathew15:24.....But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

How can any church call itself the "church of God" and expect to be the BRIDE of Christ, when they worship on a day NOT commanded by God. The seventh day, the Sabbath, is SATURDAY!

THE BEAST SYSTEM changed the SABBATH of our God from Saturday to SUNDAY! LOOK it up! Google it! Read it in the Bible! It is in the history books. The Holy Roman Empire did this thing and to this day, the people have been DECEIVED! Constantine did this and to this day, the people are BREAKING one of the 10 commandments of our GOD.....But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

Not only THAT, but the church worships a PAGAN GODDESS, on a counterfit day called EASTER instead of the PASSOVER! GOOGLE IT! Read it at Acts 12:4! The word EASTER only appears once in the Bible at Acts12:4 (KJV) and has NOTHING to do with Jesus resurrection, or any such celebration of it. It is translated from the word "PASCHA" which is Greek, and it refers to Passover, NOT Easter! Read verse 3-it is referring to the days of unleavened bread, which is PASSOVER! The word Easter is the name of a Pagan goddess of fertility, and is from the ancient Babylonian renderring of Ishtar, pronounced EASTER! It was known as "Ashtaroth" to the children of Israel.

See Judges 2:3............Judges 10:6............and 1Samuel 7:3..............for PROOF!!!!!! WAKE UP people!!!!

I have found that the "MARK OF THE BEAST", could very well be the SABBATH DAY that one keeps! The antichrist and the false prophet could use this SIGN as a way to MARK the ones on the path to destruction, and the world has already been deceived into excepting this as being NORMAL. SUNDAY is the worship day set forth by the BEAST SYSTEMS of this world! Nothing about it is true. Jesus did NOT teach us to worship PAGANISM on a counterfit day and use the fertility symbolism of bunnies and eggs to commemorate the MOST IMPORTANT TIME IN HISTORY to mankind! Our salvation and Jesus Blood sacrifice have been HIJACKED and belittled by the DEVIL! Prove it to not be so! I invite EVERYONE to dig up the TRUTH!

More traditions of men, where man has been deceived, is CHRISTMAS! SATAN CLAUSE! ALL lies told by the father of the LIE! Jesus was NOT BORN on the 25th of December! He NEVER told us to commemorate his BIRTH!!! He told the 12 deciples to do WHAT?

Luke 22:15.......And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16.......For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17.......And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this and divide it among yourselves:
18.......For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19.......And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Notice that Jesus was commemorating the passover with a MEAL! This was his DESIRE! To commemorate the PASSOVER before he suffered as our BLOOD SACRIFICE! He was sharing this communion with part of the FIRSTFRUITS, the 12 deciples, and they were to do this in REMEMBRANCE of his giving his body in sacrifice for our SINS!!!!

This is to be an example to ALL, to examine oneself, and to REPENT of sin and ask for forgiveness, before you partake of the bread and the wine. This would obviously be done ONCE a year at the time of the PASSOVER, during the evening meal, to commemerate our Lord and Saviours DEATH for us on the cross! This is what we are to DO! Not party it up and set up an idol in our HOMES!!!

Jeremiah 10:2....Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed of them.
3..........For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth the tree out of the forrest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4..........They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammars, that it move not.

NOWHERE in the Holy Bible does it say to honor ones birth! Especially with a party of frivilous expenditure on ones SELF! In fact, the only two examples of birthday partys in the bible, ended in disaster! Herod had John the Baptist head cut off and deliverred on a platter to a dancer for a performance at his birthday party. Not only that, Jesus was not even born on December 25th for the shepards were tending their flocks in the fields. That time of year it is to cold for this where he was born. And would YOU want to celebrate something on the wrong day?

Where is the CHURCH in all of this? Does it matter? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT DOES!

Why else did Jesus tell the deciples to......Mathew 7:13.....Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many therebe which go in thereat:
14.........Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

There are going to be ALOT of people going into and through the TRIBULATION! Jesus said it himself at

Mathew 24:29........Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

NOTICE.....it says Immediately AFTER the TRIBULATION of those days.........

The RAPTURE HAPPENS next in verse 30 & 31.......

Mathew 24: 30.........And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31..........And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

JESUS own words!!! The RAPTURE is AFTER the tribulation! We are NOT spared from tribulation! We are spared from Gods WRATH which accurs after the tribulation and the rapture!

Revelations 14:14........And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15........And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

THIS is the RAPTURE!!!

Then we have Gods Wrath beginning in chapter 16!

Revelations 16:1........And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the viles of the wrath of God upon the earth.

And for those who think the marriage of the lamb is before the tribulation, read Revelations 19:7......Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

In summary: I feel there is a total misunderstanding of the vast majority of people about leaving the earth in a hurry and missing all of the tribulation. I come to this conclusion by reading the bible. I have tried to lay it out for maximun understanding in this post, and pray to the Father to guide any and all responses, for further edification to all.

I love you all, and hope this somehow helps someone........

YBIC

Michael



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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes



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Here is a link to a teaching on this site that is very similar in what this article describes about the rapture of the church




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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com