Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 
THERE IS NO RAPTURE

WHY THE TITLE RAPTURE BIBLE PROPHECY FORUM?
WE STARTED OUT BELIEVING IN A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
BUT FOUND OVER TIME AROUND 2006 THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SHARE A 
BIBLE VERSE WHATSOEVER INDICATING A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)


WE DAILY STUDY TO SHEW OURSELVES APPROVED 
WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY WE ARE LEARNING DAILY AND 
ARE ABLE TO ADMIT WE MAKE MISTAKES BUT STUDY TO 
LEARN EVERY DAY.

LET YHVH/YAHUSHA BE TRUE 
AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.

To Join and post on this site e-mail for a password
​​​​​​​stevensandiego@ymail.com

WEBSITE: HTTP://WWW.RAPTUREBIBLEPROPHECYFORUM.COM

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rapture-Bible-Prophecy-Forum/362856490414697

Hebrew 5783-5788   Gregorian 2023-2028

THIS SITE IS ABOUT Yahusha/JESUS
 We are followers of Yahusha/JESUS Only​​​​​​​
Yahusha/JESUS IS GOD/YHVH
Yahusha/JESUS is YHVH/GOD/YHWH-Yahusha/Son:
​​​​​​​Yahusha/JESUS is The WORD

Yahusha is I Am That I Am  (Exodus 3:14)

Yahusha is YHWH  come in the flesh, He put aside His Diety to become a human, born of  a Virgin.

Yahusha is the Word, As The Most High, He spoke all things seen and unseen into existence

When YHWH created Light, He was revealed to the angels. 

John 14:26
"the breath of life"

But the Comforter, which is "the breath of life", whom the Father will send shall teach you all things.

God is not His  Name but a term.  The Holy Spirit is not a person but the very Breath of the Father.

There is no Trinity.  The Father, YHVH  and Yahusha are One  (John 10:30)

THE BOOK OF ENOCH

NOW IS THE TIME!

 FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!

REFERENCES IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH TO THE BIBLE

https://bookofenochreferences.wordpress.com/category/the-book-of-enoch-with-biblical-references-chapters-1-to-9/chapter-1/

Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

Yahusha/JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:

THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT

JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY

FREE DOWNLOADS

All Of The Apocryphal Books Of

The King James 1611 Version

http://www.scriptural-truth.com/apocrypha_books.html 

Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's  return!


Bible Prophecy Forum Postings
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
"Opened Seals?"


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2012/lisat227.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Lisa Taylor (27 Feb 2011)
"Opened Seals?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Doves,


I think that there is a possibility that some of the Seal Judgments of Revelation 6 are already opened. I realize that the opening of the First Seal is what many consider to be the start of the Tribulation. But a Scriptural argument can be made that some of the judgments in the Book of Revelation will actually precede the Tribulation.


Before you write this off as being farfetched, remember that the Beast, the Two Witnesses, and the increments that we normally associate with Daniel’s Seventieth Week (i.e. 42 months, 1,260 days, a time, times and half a time) are not even mentioned until Chapters 11-13 of Revelation. We are used to folding the timing of these three chapters back over to Chapter 4. But, isn’t it just as valid to interpret these chapters in chronological order?


Where was Jesus?


Take a look at the scene in Revelation 5:

“Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, ‘Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?’ But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, ‘Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.’ Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.” Revelation 5:1-6.


Please note that “no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth” could be found who was worthy to open the scroll. But a few verses later, the Lamb, “looking as if it had been slain,” appears at the scene. So, where was Jesus?

When was He not in heaven, on the earth, or under the earth? Answer – the Ascension.


We know where Jesus is now. He is at the right hand of the Father. (See Acts 2:33 and Hebrews 10:12.) In fact, Stephen saw Him there:


“But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. ‘Look,’ he said, ‘I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.’” Acts 7:55-56.


If the scene in Revelation 5 is still in the future, there would be no need to search for Jesus. And yet, when John looks directly at the right hand of God, the Lamb is not there. So, this scene must have occurred prior to the time that Jesus received his place at the right hand of God.


“But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.” Hebrews 10:12-14.


Furthermore, the fact that He appeared as a Lamb “looking as if it had been slain” supports the argument that the timing of the scene is close to the crucifixion.


The Horsemen are Spiritual Beings

Seals 1 through 4 describe the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. I realize that many believe that the rider of the white horse is the Antichrist, but I must disagree. The Book of Revelation consistently calls the Antichrist the “Beast” and we do not see him introduced as such until Revelation 11:7.


I believe that the Horsemen of the Apocalypse are all spiritual beings. We see similar horsemen and horses in Zechariah 1 and 6:


“During the night I had a vision – and there before me was a man riding a red horse! He was standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine. Behind him were red, brown and white horses. I asked, ‘What are these, my lord?’ The angel who was talking with me answered, ‘I will show you what they are.’ Then the man standing among the myrtle trees explained, ‘They are the ones the Lord has sent to go throughout the earth.’ And they reported to the angel of the Lord, who was standing among the myrtle trees, ‘We have gone throughout the earth and found the whole world at rest and in peace.’” Zechariah 1:8-11.

“I looked up again – and there before me were four chariots coming out from between two mountains – mountains of bronze! The first chariot had red horses, the second black, the third white, and the fourth dappled – all of them powerful. I asked the angel who was speaking to me, ‘What are these, my lord?’ The angel answered me, ‘These are the four spirits of heaven, going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world.” Zechariah 6:1-5.


I believe that the horsemen of Zechariah are the same horsemen of Revelation. Why else are we given three passages in the Bible with strikingly similar imagery? These horsemen are clearly supernatural. They have been alive for thousands of years, have access to heaven, can travel the earth, and they do our Lord’s bidding.


Birth pains and Seals 1-5


Jesus compared the years leading up to the Tribulation to be “the beginning of sorrows” – or birth pains. It is interesting to note that His description of the birth pains matches the impact that each of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse will have on the earth, as well as the Fifth Seal.


Here is what will happen at the opening of Seals 1-5:


Seal One – conquest.

Seal Two – war.

Seal Three – famine.

Seal Four – death to ¼ of the earth by sword, famine, plague, and wild beasts.

Seal Five – martyrdom.


Now see how all of these elements are encompassed by the description of birth pains:

“Jesus answered: ‘Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Christ, and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and my false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” Matthew 24:4-14.

Like birth pains, the impact of the first 5 Seals could be accelerating.


Open and Ongoing

The opening of the Fifth Seal supports the theory that a seal can be both open and ongoing:


"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, 'How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?' Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." Revelation 6:9-11.


(*Note: John only sees "souls." This may be evidence that the Rapture has not taken place prior to the Fifth Seal. The martyrs do not have resurrection bodies.)


Christians have been killed for the "word of God and the testimony they had maintained" since Stephen. I believe that these martyrs comprise the souls of those who are seen at the opening of the Fifth Seal. They are told to wait for vengeance because their number is incomplete.


So, even though the Fifth Seal is opened, its effect (i.e. martyrdom) is still ongoing.

Sixth Seal Rapture?


So while Seals 1-5 could arguably be open and on-going, the Sixth Seal, with its earthquake of global proportions, has clearly not happened yet.


Most of you are already familiar with author David Lowe’s earthquake-resurrection pattern. In a nutshell, he believes that resurrection events are coupled with earthquakes. ( See Matthew 27:50-53 and Revelation 11:11-13. ) Consequently, since the Rapture will involve a large number of people, the accompanying earthquake could be globally devastating. Lowe believes that the earthquake that occurs at the opening of the Sixth Seal is also the earthquake that will occur at the time of the Rapture.


I think he is correct. And I think that the breaking of the Seals is in a holding pattern until the Rapture occurs.


Conclusion


Ironically, if some of the Seals are open prior to the Tribulation, it would resolve a few of the disagreements that pre-tribbers have with pre-wrathers. It would actually turn the pre-wrathers into pre-tribbers. Wouldn't it be something if we have been fighting over a non-issue all of this time?



Maranatha.

– Lisa Taylor



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: "Opened Seals?"

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


Gerlinda (28 Feb 2012)
"Lisa Taylor, re: Opened Seals"



Hi Lisa, I want to comment on your article concerning the Horsemen being Spiritual Beings. I've studied both assertions...... that the first horesman was either A/C or Jesus Christ. Well, I knew it could not be Jesus Christ so assumed it was A/C but now, after reading what you have posted, I need to say, "There it is right before our very eyes that they are Spiritual Beings and that settles that argement once and for all." After all, they are sent out by Jesus Christ. Why would one be a physical being and the other three Spiritual? That is inconsistent with the whole message. Good job Lisa!

Secondly, I agree with David Lowe on the fact that the earthquake that occurs at the opening of the sixth seal is also the earthquake that will occur at the time of the Rapture. After all it is the earthquake that will trigger all the other earthquake faults around the world keeping in line with a world-wide event that cause those all around the world to depart. Let me add one more thing about David Lowe. I give David all the credit in the world for opening my eyes way back in 2004, I believe it was, when he sent me evidence that the 9-11 towers did not happen as the official report told the public. When I objected, he continued to send more. David is a person that seeks the truth and it was truth that I had to finally accept because "IT WAS THE TRUTH!" period. I've learned much truth, that I just couldn't believe could be possible but there was no denying it.

Perhaps, it was even earlier than 2004 because I know it took me a long time to be convinced of that fact and the loads of other materials showing there was/is a dark, dark force behind the governments and religions of the world. I thank David for that....not pleasant....but The Truth.

Lisa, on that note, I thank you for this teaching I had not even, remotely, considered before. Here is the post with the portion I copied and pasted here. gerlinda



http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2012/lisat227.htm



The Horsemen are Spiritual Beings

Seals 1 through 4 describe the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. I realize that many believe that the rider of the white horse is the Antichrist, but I must disagree. The Book of Revelation consistently calls the Antichrist the “Beast” and we do not see him introduced as such until Revelation 11:7.


I believe that the Horsemen of the Apocalypse are all spiritual beings. We see similar horsemen and horses in Zechariah 1 and 6:

Lowe believes that the earthquake that occurs at the opening of the Sixth Seal is also the earthquake that will occur at the time of the Rapture.



Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

Re: "Opened Seals?"

Hi Nan!
I appreciate this insight! Thank you!
I have a little different opinion, I don't believe any of the seals have been opened yet, because it's Christ that takes the book from the hand of the Father, first. I see this "Christ" as the full embodiment of the "NEW MAN", which means the Bride of Christ, as HIS BODY and He as the HEAD, will participate in everything that pertains to Christ's judgements during this 7 year period.
Prophecy can have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. It's obvious that it "appears" some of the horsemen have been released, but this is just a FORETASTE of COMING events "SHORTLY" to come to pass after the church has been Raptured. Just my thoughts.
God Bless you richly!!! YSIC, Love, Sally

Re: "Opened Seals?"


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2012/arlene229-2.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Arlene (29 Feb 2012)
"For John B on his "re:Lisa Taylor"..."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi John B....in regards to your comment to Lisa Taylor....

I read Lisa's comments, and they were very thought provoking. Then I read what you said about her perception of things. Here is what you said:


I concur with almost everything you put forward in your post. One thing you need "not" to concern yourself with or wait for though...... is one quarter of the earth's population to be killed in the fourth seal. The bible does not say that, it says.......

"And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth."

When I read this, my understanding is that power was given to the four horsemen over one fourth of the real estate of the earth. And in that area these four horsemen were allowed to kill by the sword (war--wars), with hunger (famine), with death (pestilence), and by the beasts of the earth. It doesn't say that they will kill one fourth the population of the earth but will have sway over one fourth of the real estate to do their evil deeds.


You are right about them doing their evil "thing" on one fourth of the population. It will happen that way because that is what the words say. However, you told Lisa "not to worry" about part of the population being killed. I had to read that one twice (I only know how to transfer one part at a time, so I am only remembering what I read and relaying it). Please forgive me if I read it wrong. Do we need to worry about one fourth of the population being killed? Uh......more than that, I'm afraid. Read on:

Rev. 8:13.....tells about the "three woes" (the last 3 Trumpet judgments). This time is not going to be pretty...all hell is going to break loose and ONE THIRD part ! of men will be killed...

1. First Woe.....Rev 9....bottomless pit opened. (This is not the Chinese armies as some preachers tell us). They are demonic "horsemen" described in Joel chapter 2. Verse 6 tells us..."And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." No, people won't die here, but they will sure wish they could!!!

2. Second woe...Rev.9:15..."And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year for to SLAY THE THIRD PART OF MAN.

Rev. 9:18...."By these three was the third part of men killed, by the ! fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths."

Rev.11:19...."And the temple of God was opened in heaven....." By this time, ALL believers have been raptured. This is after the last (7th) trumpet sounds and Jesus is reclaiming the world for Himself (verse 15)...God's wrath (the "vial" or "bowl" judgments begin on the unrepentant, unbelieving world).

I have a feeling that some Christians are not concerned about the Tribulation of 1260 days (42 months under AC)....then why did Luke tell us in Luke 21:26..."Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken." I read that as people, during this time, are literally going to be "scared to death" from what is happenin! g.

There is so much more, but I think you get the point that there is definitely something to be frightened of for those who are left behind after the rapture of the "bride". I pray I am worthy to escape these things (Luke 21:36), but if I'm not, I will "hang in there" with Job who said, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him." (Job doesn't want to be a hypocrite, and neither do I).

YsiC,

Arlene


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: "Opened Seals?"


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


Mary, Lisa.....seals like you have never heard them....must read"


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

John B (2 March 2012)
"Re: Mary, Lisa.....seals like you have never heard them....must read"


Mary, Lisa.....seals like you have never heard them....must read"


Mary,
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2012/maryz229.htm

I enjoyed your post very much and I love when people (like you) think "out of the box" and question what so called bible scholars have poured in concrete over the years as the absolute truth. >From my perspective there are many aspects of end time scripture that have been force fed to the sheep....... that are in error. False teachers abound in these last days.

Obvious to me, one of those errors is that the rapture happens in Rev. 4..... when there is absolutely nothing in that chapter that would indicate an event of that extreme status happening.(You pre-trib guys please hear me out because the rapture will still be pre-trib. Just keep reading...) Other than creation and the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus the next most monumental happening of the biblical spectrum happens at the rapture and some want us to believe it happened in Rev.4 when God didn't dedicate one sentence there to an extreme event such as this. But when the rapture did happen after the opening of the sixth seal God shared the glory of it all in Rev.7:9-17 when untold millions show up in heaven. The scoffers say that this can't be the rapture because verse 14 says that......"These are the people who come out of the great tribulation". Well technically the raptured were in the great tribulation for a few moments after the opening of the sixth seal. God tells us that His great wrath starts at the opening of the sixth seal. And somewhere after the opening probably during the terrible world wide earthquake he snatches us away. So technically we will have ...."come out of the great tribulation".


Mary, I read with interest your twist on the seals and I have mine as well. I believe the first five seals have already happened and we are rocking on ready for the opening of the sixth seal.

I believe John the Revelator who got his vision in approximately 95AD was given a tour of the entire time frame from 95AD until the end of the Christ's reign on earth. He was first given a tour of the seven early and later churches that would span the time frame from 95AD until the reign of Christ. Then he was given a guided tour of heaven and the strange players that make up that reality. John was given a tour of the complete "end times scenario".

John saw that the world and Christ's church from 95AD to the end times would be under constant assault from Satan. And that Jesus Himself by overseeing the opening of the seals would have to intervene at specific times throughout these 2000+ years or we would not have made it. Just like He intervened in the Old Testament for the protection of the children of Israel...... He has intervened for us during these 2000 years. Jesus was the only one in heaven or on earth found worthy to intervene on our behalf by overseeing the opening of these seals and divinely assuring the outcome. I believe that the seven seals are not judgments but interventions for our benefit. And only our sinless Redeemer was worthy and qualified to be the one to intervene. Let me explain.......

Let's look at the first four seals to see when Jesus intervened on our behalf from 95AD until the present.

Seal 1.....And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
There was a time in the last 2000 years that Satan was winning and Christ's church was in jeopardy of being eradicated but Jesus intervened at the first seal. In the Middle Ages the Roman Catholic Church under the Vatican and the papal popes murdered untold millions of true Christians and Jews that would not bow to the demonic authority of Rome. (Satan was winning the battle)This went on for centuries until Jesus intervened by opening the first seal and allowing Napoleon Bonaparte to conquer Europe and put an end to the power of the papal states.... and then the slaughter ended. And yes, Napoleon was famous for riding a white horse. He was the conqueror of Europe (crown) and was a great military man (bow).

Seal 2....And another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
There was another time in the last 2000 years that Christ's church, the Jews and the whole earth was in jeopardy of being destroyed. Again I believe that Jesus intervened and oversaw the happenings of this period (this seal) to insure the survival of the Jews, His Church and the earth in general. The period I speak of is World War II. (Satan was winning again) Germany under the demonic Nazis were hell bent on the eradication of the Jews and true Christians. They rolled over Europe and North Africa like a plague. They formed a pact with Japan to conquer the entire world and in the process started a world war and took peace from the earth. The German's were on the verge of perfecting the first nuclear bomb (great sword) which would have given the planet to Satan. But Jesus was there to oversee this period, this second seal, to prevent this from occurring. I believe He delayed Germany and advanced America with the building of the hydrogen bomb which again saved the Jews, the true Christians and the world from Satan's control. Remember....we do not fight flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. So we are badly outnumbered and periodically Jesus has to intervene on our behalf or the bad guys would win....hence seal two.

Seal 3....So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.
I believe this seal speaks to the economic factors of the planet. If you are like me you can't understand how the whole deck of economic cards has not completely fallen. Almost every country on the planet is way way way beyond bankrupt. The greed and outright monetary stealing (lawlessness) that is going on with no consequences is unbelievable. Satan is very pleased. What is preventing the complete economic collapse resulting in chaos and anarchy? I believe Jesus is, through His intervention with the third seal. Why? maybe because the fullness of the church is not complete. It doesn't matter how broke the planet is, people still just want to party..party..party. Hence...do not harm the oil and the wine.

Seal 4...So I looked and behold, a pale horse. And the name who sat on him was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death and by the beasts of the earth.
This is an easy one. This seal speaks of Islam "the religion of Death". A fourth of the world's population and a fourth of the land mass is controlled by Islam. In the lands under their control they kill, starve and butcher anyone they choose who will not join their Death cult. They believe if they die as a martyr for Allah that they will go to paradise but what awaits them and follows them is Hades. We saw the Islamic pale green horse ride on worldwide TV during the riots in Cairo. Satan has the Muslims worked up into a demonic frenzy. They are willing to commit mass suicide around the planet to eradicate the Jews, the Christians and anyone else who won't bow to their demonic religion. I believe it is only because Jesus has once again intervened on our behalf with this fourth seal that worldwide butchery on a massive scale does not break out. Again I believe Jesus has intervened because the time in not yet right and the fullness of His church is not yet complete. (Rev.6:11....was completed)

Seal 5....I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then a white robe was given to them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Have you ever heard the biblical expression---absent from the body, present with the Lord? Well if you die "in Christ", meaning that during your life you made a conscious decision to accept Jesus Christ and the bloody sacrifice He made on your behalf on the cross then you are His for eternity. So when you die, not your physical body but your soul goes immediately to Him (present with the Lord) but the consciousness of your soul is asleep. Now from Christ's sacrifice on the cross to the present, there are untold millions of people that have accepted Him and untold millions who were viciously martyred for Him.(for example--millions of true Christians and Jews were martyred by the Catholic Church in the Middle ages) The souls of all those people have been present with the Lord but asleep since their deaths. 1 Thess.4:13-18 explains this........

"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

So the souls of these millions and millions of people who have been asleep some from 2000 years ago ,some from two moments ago, are awaken from their sleep as Jesus opens the fifth seal. A lot of them are very angry because they were violently killed for their belief in Jesus throughout the ages and are crying out to Him. They want to know how long it will be before Jesus judges those on earth who killed them. Jesus gives them all white robes and tells them to rest, and that they will have to wait "a little while longer" until the number of His believers is complete. Obviously there is a total accumulated number of fellow servants, a human goal if you will, a preconceived quantity of believers that has to be reached before the Rapture of the church will happen.( not my words but the Lords...Rev.6:11)

We on earth will not know when this total quantity of believers has been reached or when this fifth seal has been opened in heaven but it appears that the first four seals have been opened and the believers in Christ are being added to this total at a rapid rate. Christians are dying and being martyred around the world at an accelerated rate whether it be in Sudan, Pakistan, Egypt, Indonesian or most any Muslim country there is.

When this total number has been reached Jesus will open the sixth seal. There will be a world wide terrible earthquake, at that same time the rapture of the church will happen where the dead in Christ (those who were asleep) and the alive in Christ will be instantaneously gathered to Him in the clouds. This Rapture "process" and the great worldwide earthquake and I suspect multiple volcanoes will cause the sun to turn black, the moon red, and our sky (our heavenly view looking upward) to roll up like a scroll. Somewhere in this process when the sky is rolled up and open--maybe open to another dimension, God will cast Satan and his fallen angels to earth like late over-ripe figs from a fig tree in a mighty wind. And then as per Rev.6:17 in the sixth seal, Jesus proclaims that the great day of His wrath has come. But He kept His promise that His believers would escape this wrath because still in the sixth seal before the opening of the seventh we all show up in heaven. A great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

The bible says in several spots that He will come to get His bride in the spring. This spring?? I believe we are getting very close.

Blessings Mary.......John B

Mary, Lisa.....seals like you have never heard them....must read"





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: "Opened Seals?"


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/kathys33.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kathy S (3 March 2012)
"John B"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



hello John B...

I read your letter about the first 5 seals. And was totally amazed by it! I was raised believing Pretrib. Then last year I began to question that belief. I prayed and seeked God asking Him to show me somehow to KNOW which trib view was the correct one. While seeking God for months and reading all I could find about the different views...I had great peace with the pre-wrath view. I too believe that we will be raptured at the 6 seal. With that said, I believe we are NOW in the beginning half of the tribulation. just seeing the PALE HORSE on national TV should prove that point alone. But, I didn't understand WHEN the seals could have opened and at what time. Yours has been the most convincing.

Just the other day, i wondered...how the church could have carried on to this point with ALL the persecutions and martyers over time. wondering what was protecting the church during all the evil in this world over the last 2,000 yrs. Your explanations of the seals, makes sense. I believe the Holy Spirit placed that thought in my mind and prepared me to read your letter. Thanks soo much for sharing! I plan to write this view down in my Bible.

Where did you learn this from? Very well thought out!! Thanks again for sharing with us!

One thing I do wonder though, In Rev. it says we will endure 10 days of tribulation. I wonder if this is 10 days of GREAT Tribulation? Can you explain what this means?

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/johnb32.htm

In Christ,
kathy s.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: "Opened Seals?"


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/gerlinda33-2.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Gerlinda (3 March 2012)
"To John B. your answer to Mary, Lisa...seals like you've never heard them"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



John, Doves and John B

I've tried to hold off posting for a while but just cannot help but comment on this post by John B

Excellent post John and add me to the list that thinks out-side of the box also. It is very evident from reading Revelation (especially) that we ARE in those days. Look at the signs that Jesus said would be here: have we ever had everything line up in such a manner as this with the armies of the world round about Israel about ready to attack which will cause that earthquake in Jerusalem that will trigger all the very unstable fault lines, showing activity? Never! The economy around the world speaks for itself....has it ever been like this world-wide? Never! Has there been such apostosy within every aspect of Society; even within the church like this? Never! Has there ever been a world-wide following of one god such as allah, which dominates 1/4 of the Land Mass? Never! Many years ago, when we were told that we had nothing to be concerned about because none of these things would touch the believer, the words were soothing but they were lies which didn't add up at all. The earthquake in Jerusalem that triggers all the other fault lines is the very thing that will show us what a loving God we have when He takes us up and out of the way about the same time that it hits. Then, as J.R. Church says, "Whew, that was just in the nick of time." When that happens, it will be the time of the Wrath of God. Thanks John. We are so very sure, it is right around the corner, FINALLY! Oh, and I forgot to mention the emergence of Petrus Romanus about to take place. What a time to be alive. gerlinda

John B (2 March 2012)
"Re: Mary, Lisa.....seals like you have never heard them....must read"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/johnb32.htm


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com