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Tribulation or Rapture - Which?


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Tribulation or Rapture - Which?

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Tribulation or Rapture - Which?

Written by Oswald J. Smith


Why did the Lord Jesus conceal the Secret Rapture in Matthew twenty-four? How are we to explain the silence of the Church for centuries concerning it? What about the passages that have been used to support it? Have we been lulling the Church into a false security? Are there any outstanding Christian leaders who believe that the Church will go through the Great Tribulation?

In my first book on Prophecy I asked the questions: "Will the Church pass through the Tribulation or be raptured out of it?" In answering I made this statement: "I have always held the view that the Rapture precedes the Revelation by some seven years, and that the Church, therefore, will not go through the Tribulation, but I do not want to be dogmatic about it and, if God should reveal the contrary to me, I will gladly accept it". Hence, you see, I did not approach the subject with my mind closed to new light and my heart already prejudiced. I was open to whatever God might reveal.

Now, after years of study and prayer, I am absolutely convinced that there will be no rapture before the Tribulation, but that the Church will undoubtedly be called upon to face the Antichrist, and that Christ will come at the close and not at the beginning of that awful period. I believed the other theory simply because I was taught it by W. E. Blackstone in his book "Jesus is Coming," the Scofield Reference Bible and Prophetic Conferences and Bible Schools; but when I began to search the Scriptures for myself I discovered that there is not a single verse in the Bible that upholds the pre-tribulation theory, but that the uniform teaching of the Word of God is of a post-tribulation Rapture: pre-millennial always. Everywhere pre-millennial, but post-tribulation.

My First Awakening

My first awakening to this important truth came one day in 1925, when I was spending a few days in a cottage at Stoney Lake, Ontario. One of my neighbors, Frank Edmonds by name, simply made the suggestion to me. I opposed it at once. "Why," I exclaimed, "however could that be? What about the Scriptures? The teaching of a pre-tribulation Rapture is clear and indisputable." But he quietly affirmed that I was wrong and emphasized the truth concerning the Last Trump. Of course, I was not convinced. I almost ridiculed the very idea of such a possibility. And there the matter rested.

One day, in the early twenties, I began preaching on Prophecy. I had taken my people through Daniel without difficulty. Then came Mark 13. Luke 21, and Matthew 24 and 25. But. lo and behold, no sooner had I started on Matthew 24 than I got into trouble. I had announced that I would deal with Matthew 24 at the next service. Hundreds had gathered. I was in a maze, for I was perplexed. So I took a verse here and there through the chapter and thus satisfied the people for that hour at least. But now the next meeting was coming. What was I to say?

I need not point out that there is no pretribulation Rapture in Matthew 24. The Second Coming is unmistakably placed "immediately after the Tribulation" (verse 29), and I was forced to the conclusion that if the Rapture was to be ‘before" the Tribulation, the Lord Jesus Christ would certainly have given some hint of it at least. He was dealing with the End-Time of the Age. It is unthinkable that He would have spoken so minutely of the Tribulation without stating that the Church would escape. Instead, He purposely led His hearers to the belief that His followers would be in it. Hence, I was staggered, nor could I honestly defend my previous position.

So, when I again faced the people, I said sufficient to let them know that I questioned my former stand and saw evidence of a post-tribulation Rapture. For, as I read Matthew 24 and 25, I saw that many things, as prophesied by the Lord Jesus Christ, simply had to take place before Jesus could come, namely: "All these things" (verse 33), especially the prediction regarding the preaching of the Gospel. See Mark 13:10, and note the significance of the word "first". Thus, since God’s future program could not be set aside, there could be no "any moment expectation" of Christ’s Return. We are to watch, watch as prophecy after prophecy is fulfilled, ever looking forward to His Appearing; and, in the End-Time, to watch as never before, and to always be ready, for none can ever know how quickly the events predicted might come to pass and Christ return.

My "Any Moment" Theory

Then followed the next step. There came into my hands a copy of a book by Dr. Henry W. Frost, then the Home Director of the China Inland Mission. It was entitled "Matthew 24 and the Revelation," a volume of over 300 pages. I fairly devoured it. Portions of it I read through twice. It was most conclusive in its arguments for a post-tribulation Rapture. About the same time I got hold of a book by James H. McConkey, called "The Book of Revelation," and another—perhaps the best of all—by Edmund Shackleton (England), entitled "Will the Church Escape the Great Tribulation?" Before I had read them through I was firmly convinced that there would be no Rapture before the Tribulation, and that I had done wrong in promising the Church an escape instead of preparing her for the terrible ordeal that must most surely be awaited. My "any moment" theory could not be sustained. In fact, the very first statement in the latter book, which was written about 1890, amazed me beyond measure and I was fairly staggered as I grasped its significance. Let me quote it verbatim:

All who held the pre-millennial Coming of Christ were, till about sixty years ago, of one mind on the subject. About that time a new view was promulgated that the Coming of Christ was not one event, but that it was divided into stages, in fact, that Christ comes twice from heaven to earth, but the first time only as far as the air. This first descent, it is said, will be for the purpose of removing the Church from the world, and will occur before the Great Tribulation under Antichrist. This they call "The coming for His saints" or "Secret Rapture." The second part of the Coming is said to take place when Christ appears in glory and destroys the Antichrist. This they call "The coming with His saints."

Apart from the test of the Word, which is the only final one, there are certain reasons why this doctrine should be viewed with suspicion. It appears to be little more than sixty years old; and it seems highly improbable that. if scriptural it could have escaped the scrutiny of the many devoted Bible students whose writings have been preserved to us from the past. More especially in the writings of the early Christian fathers would we expect to find some notice of this doctrine, if it had been taught by the Apostles; but those who have their works declare that they betray no knowledge of a theory that the Church would escape the Tribulation under Antichrist, or that there would be any "coming" except that spoken of in Matthew 24, as occurring in manifest glory "after the Tribulation." This is all the more significant, because these writers bestowed much attention upon the subject of the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation. Augustine, referring to Daniel 7, wrote: "But he who reads this passage even half asleep cannot fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church."

Then when I remembered that the death of Peter, his prediction of corruption and apostasy after his decease, the death of Paul, and many other events had to occur before the Rapture—especially the evangelization of the world (Mark 13:10 and Matt. 24:14)—my "any moment" theory took wings and fled.

Last of all, I ran across "The Great Tribulation—The Church’s Supreme Test" by John B. Scruby, the most convincing; the most unanswerable of all. It deals with every point minutely and proves conclusively that the Tribulation precedes the Rapture.

Recently I got hold of that remarkable book "Tribulation to Glory" by H. A. Baker. in which he wrote: "For eighteen centuries the fundamental principle of tribulation to glory was the universal belief of the truly born-again members of the Church", and then he goes on to show that the new pre-tribulation rapture teaching was first proclaimed as a direct revelation by a woman in Edward Irving’s church, and then taken up by John Nelson Darby (and the Scofield Reference Bible) in direct contradiction to the teaching of the Church for eighteen hundred years.

"Beginning with the Irvingite woman, then propagated by John N. Darby about 1830, this new ‘spirit-inspired’ doctrine during the last century has come down to us until it has become popular. George Muller opposed it; so did Benjamin Wills Newton; so did Dr. S. P. Tregelles and other Brethren, but all in vain." But now, thank God, large numbers of our leading Bible Teachers are coming back to the original position.

God’s Word

I discovered that no time element is ever mentioned so far as the Rapture is concerned, except as it is related to the Resurrection. And that the Resurrection is always placed at the time of the sounding of the Last Trump (1 Cor. 15:51-54 ). This Trump, without doubt, closes the Tribulation. There is no eighth. The saints are rewarded (Rev. 11:18 ). The "mystery of God", is then finished, there is time (delay) no longer (Rev. 10:6 and 7 ), and the Resurrection, of course, immediately precedes the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:16).

Naturally, I thought of 2 Thessalonians 2:7: "he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way". But then I learned from the Greek that the second "he" is the Antichrist, and that the Greek does not say "taken out of the way," but "revealed in the midst," or, "born out of the midst." In other words, lawlessness will be restrained until the appointed time for the lawless one, the Antichrist, to appear. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit at all. That is a Scofield Bible assumption. The Holy Spirit and the Church remain to the end of the Age.

Then, too. I thought of Luke 21:36 and of Revelation 3:10. But Noah, I remembered, "escaped" by preservation. Daniel "was kept" and protected in the lion’s den. The three Hebrew children were "kept" though in a burning fiery furnace. None of them were taken out. Rather they were kept, preserved, protected while in, and thus they escaped. Why not the Church? Note that 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 finds the saints in trouble, in tribulation, and resting only at the close. In fact the first two chapters of 2 Thessalonians cannot be interpreted in any other way. Chapter two, verse one, is most explicit. "Now we beseech you, brethren", writes Paul, "by the coming (Revelation) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together (the Rapture) unto Him". There is here no separation between the Rapture and the Revelation. The Coming is the one and only Coming spoken of throughout the two chapters, the Coming described in chapter one, verses seven and eight.

I learned, too, that the word for "meet" in 1 Thessalonians 4: was only used in two other places, and, in both cases, it meant "returning with" and not "remaining at" the place of meeting. When the brethren from Rome met Paul, they immediately returned to the city with him. When the Virgins met the Bridegroom they accompanied Him back to the wedding. When the saints meet Christ in the Air, as He comes to judge the nations and establish His Kingdom on earth, they will return with Him. There is no Scripture that says they will remain for some seven years in the Air.

In 1 Thessalonians each chapter closes with a reference to the Second Coming, but no distinction is made. As Christ descends with His angels after the Tribulation, the saints ascend, and, meeting Him in the Air, turn and continue with Him back to the earth. How long He remains in the Air, following the meeting with the Church is nowhere revealed. "The Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints" (1 Thess. 3:13), is unquestionably the Revelation, after the Tribulation, simply because the words, "with all His saints" are added. But why infer another, a previous Coming, in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1:10, or 5:23? It is all one and the same. There is no Secret Rapture. That theory must be deliberately read into the passage. There is no Rapture in Revelation until chapter nineteen is reached.

I had been taught that the Greek word "parousia" always referred to the Rapture and that other words were used for the Coming of Christ in glory after the Tribulation. But I found that this is not true. Parousia is used for the latter, too. See 2 Thessalonians 2:1.

While it is clear that the Church must endure the wrath of the Antichrist, it is certain that the Church will not have to endure the wrath of God. When His judgments are poured out on the Antichrist and his followers, the Church will be divinely protected by God even as the Israelites were protected when His wrath was poured upon the Egyptians—not by being raptured, but by being kept.

We might go through all the writers of the New Testament, and we would fail to discover any indication of the so-called "two-stages" of our Lord’s Coming. Peter, James and John tell the same story. There is no Scripture for a pre-tribulation rapture. That theory had to be invented by man. Search and see. There is no verse in the Bible that even mentions it.

I discovered that nearly all evangelical missionary leaders believe that there must be representatives in the Church of Christ from every tribe, kindred, tongue and nation, and not just from the so-called civilized world, and that, therefore, the only way to hasten the Coming of Christ is by evangelizing the remaining unreached peoples of earth. Jesus made it perfectly clear when He said, "the gospel must first be published among all nations" (Mark 13:10) "and then shall the end come" (Matt. 24:14). Hence, the greatest incentive to missionary work is the Second Coming of Christ.

Spiritual Preparedness

I am sure that with the true child of God it is not a question of preference but of truth. Does God’s Word say so? Why then rebel? Is not His plan best? Besides, what difference does it make so long as we are ready? "Spiritual Preparedness" is the only important factor after all.

I wonder if we have been lulling the Church into a false security? Can it be that we have been preaching an easy escape? Ought we to prepare the Church for the greatest of all ordeals? Should not our teaching harden her for the fires of the Tribulation? What kind of soldiers are we training? I am afraid that we have been very guilty and that God will certainly hold us responsible for the type of Christian our preaching is producing. We need men and women today of the martyr spirit. The test of the Inquisition is coming again and woe betide the pre-millennialists who are not ready. The Church must be purified in the fires of persecution.

Voices of Others

Now if I were to go into the subject in detail and attempt to deal with the numerous passages, both for and against, I would simply be overlapping. Others have already done this most ably, far better than I can, and so, if you are really interested, I would suggest that you secure the books that have been written on the subject and study them prayerfully and with an open mind before taking sides. A great many have been written by men on both sides of the Atlantic. The following are among the best that have been published in Great Britain and you may procure most of them from THE SOVEREIGN GRACE ADVENT TESTIMONY, I DONALD WAY, CHELMSFORD, ESSEX, CM2 9JB, the organization that publishes the Post-Tribulation magazine Watching and Waiting, edited by James Payne.

Here are the books:

Will the Church Escape the Great Tribulation? (by Edmund Shackleton); Christ’s Second Coming (by S. P. Tregelles) [these two are scarce]; Our Lord Cometh (by W. J. Rowlands); The Coming of the Son of Man (by Rev. E. J. Poole-Connor); The Second Advent of our Lord, Not Secret, but in Manifested Glory (by B. W. Newton); One Second Coming of Christ (by W. J. Rowlands); The First Resurrection (by S. P. Tregelles); Touching the Coming of the Lord (by Dan Crawford); The Saints’ Rest and Rapture (by Frank H. White); The Second Coming of Christ (by George Muller). Send for their catalogue.

The following have been published in North America: The Blessed Hope (by Professor George E. Ladd). Dr. Ladd teaches in Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena. It is a masterly volume and it goes into both the history and doctrine of both the Pre-Tribulation and the Post-Tribulation Advent. "Will Christ’s Coming he in two stages?" (by Norman F. Douty).

I have a list of nearly seventy Bible Teachers who have proclaimed this view of the Return of Christ. Among them, in addition to those who have written the above books, there are such names as W. J. Erdman, Charles R. Erdman. Dr. Campbell Morgan, Bishop Frank Houghton, Dr. A. B. Simpson, Dr. J. W. Thirtle, Dr. Charles T. Cook, Alexander Reese, Dr. Horatius Bonar, Dr. Adolph Saphir, Henry Varley, Dr. Nathaniel West, David Baron, H. W. Soltau, Dr. Bergin, Dr. Harold J. Ockenga, and many others. To ignore the convictions of such spiritual leaders is impossible. Deference must be given to their views.

These views I would sum up by quoting from Watching and Waiting—"We believe that this was the teaching of our Lord and His Apostles. We believe it was held by the Early Church and by all in the Middle Ages who had any light on the Second Advent. We believe, too, that it was the teaching of the Early Brethren and that no other view was generally accepted among them until the Any Moment. Secret Rapture, Pre-Tribulation, or Two-Stage Coming theory was taught by Edward Irving, as a result of a vision received by a woman in his church. Thus Any Moment teaching is a ‘novel’ doctrine".

My Final Appeal

Beloved, the shadows are darkening. The day is drawing to a close. It is now Saturday night in the history of the Church. The times of the Gentiles have almost run their course. Events are fast shaping for the end. The Antichrist will soon be here.

One fact and one only is important—Christ is coming. Of that there can be no doubt. One question and one only is vital—Are we ready?

We may differ on minor details of prophecy. We may disagree as to the time of His Appearing. We may not see eye to eye regarding the order of prophetic events. But one thing is certain—He is coming. We will be with Him. The Millennium is at hand and soon now we shall know all. Therefore, let us love one another sincerely and labour together "till He Come".

If I am mistaken I will know it then. Hence, let us agree to disagree agreeably. God knows our hearts. He knows that we love Him and that is all that really matters. If I love Him and you love Him, we will love each other. Soon the day will break and all the shadows flee away. Meanwhile I am "looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2 :13).




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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



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Re: Tribulation or Rapture - Which?


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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Who said "Rapture"?

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Who said "Rapture"?



By David Ebaugh

He did not!!

He said "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." ( John 17:15 )

CHANGE YOUR MIND

A great churchman, Dr. OSWALD J. SMITH ( TORONTO ) said, "now, after years of study and prayer I am absolutely convinced that there will be no Rapture before the Tribulation, but that the Church will undoubtedly be called upon to face the Anti-christ, and that Christ will come at the close and not at the beginning of that awful period."

He said, "I have always held (in the past) the view that the Rapture precedes the Revelation by some seven years." Something changed the mind of that great Bible Student and Preacher.

He went on to say, "I believed the other theory simply because I was taught it by W.E. Blackstone in his book "Jesus is Coming", the Scofield Reference Bible and Prophetic Conferences and Bible Schools; but when I began to search the Scriptures for myself I discovered that there is not a single verse in the Bible that upholds the pre-tribulation theory, but that the uniform teaching of the Word of God is of a post-tribulation Rapture?Search the Scriptures for yourself and your mind also will be changed.

Paul the apostle clearly states, "We shall be changed at the LAST trump:" ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 ) The LAST trump is described as the SEVENTH trump in the book of Revelation. ( See Revelation 10:7 and 11:15-19 ) Jesus placed the sign of His second coming "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days." ( Matthew 24:29 ) The Bible DOES NOT say the Christians will be Raptured FIRST when two are in the field, one taken and one left. ( Matthew 24:40-41 ) It does not say who is first in Matthew 24. However it is clear that the children of the wicked one are taken FIRST from reading Matthew 13:24-43.

SUPERNATURAL PROTECTION

Noah was not Raptured out of the flood water; he accepted the supernatural word of God and went through the waters. God said, "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee:when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee." (Isaiah 43:2) Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego saw the fourth man and went through the fire. They were not Raptured out. Daniel was not Raptured out of the lion's den, he went through it.

God has established a pattern of always providing supernatural protection for His people so that they had the power to go through the test, not out of it. Why would He change His pattern for the last great tribulation?

God said, "Only with thin eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. There shall no evil befall thee." ( Psalms 91:8 )

A mighty supernatural deliverance was wrought by God by protecting all His children in Egypt.

THROUGH NOT OUT

The went through the LAST SEVEN plagues, but Israel did not suffer from them. ( Exodus 8:22-23, 9:4 )

When we study how God poured out His wrath in Egypt during the LAST SEVEN plagues we notice an amazing parallel to when God will pour out His wrath during the LAST SEVEN vials of wrath (also seven trumpets) of the book of Revelation.

Just as God protected His people from His wrath in Egypt, He will also protect His people from His wrath in the end time. We are living in the end time. But it should be noted; His people always go through it, not out of it.

FAMOUS CHURCHMEN AGREE

Dr Henry W. Frost. Former Home Director of China Inland Mission wrote a book "Matthew 24 and the Revelation." It argues conclusively for a POST-tribulation Rapture.

A man from England, Edmund Shackleton, wrote a book, "Will the Church escape the great tribulation?" Anyone who reads either book will be convinced that there will be no Rapture before the tribulation.

Rev Pat Robertson, a famous radio and TV personality on the east coast has spent many hours on his own stations telling his audience that they would have to be prepared because they would go through the tribulation, not out of it.

Here is a list of Bible Teachers who have written to show that we will go through the tribulation: David Baron, Dr Bergin, Dr Horatius Bonar, Charles T. Cook, Charles R Erdman, W.J. Erdman, Bishop Frank Houghton, Dr Campbell Morgan, Dr Adolph Saphir, Dr AB Simpson, HW Soltan, Dr JW Thirtle, Henry Varley, Nathaniel West, Lennard Darby, Norman S. McPherson.

Other famous men who have taken this position are George Muller, John B Scruby, Norman Douty and George Ladd (Fuller Theological Seminary)

HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE THEORY ( FALSE )

Mr Edmund Shackleton opened his book with the statement, "All who held the premillennial Coming of Christ were...of one mind on the subject:...(until circa. 1830) About that time a new view was promulgated that the Coming of Christ was not one event, but that it was divided into stages, in fact, that Christ comes twice from heaven to earth, but the first time only as far as the air. This first descent, it is said will be for the purpose of removing the Church from the world, and will occur before the Great Tribulation under Anti-christ. This they call 'The coming for His Saints' or 'Secret Rapture'. The second part of the Coming is said to take place when Christ appears in glory and destroys the Anti-christ. This they call, 'The coming with His saints'."

Mr. H.A. Baker wrote, "For eighteen centuries the fundamental principle of tribulation to glory was the universal belief of the truly born again members of the Church."

Dr. Oswald J. Smith said, "The new pre-tribulation Rapture teaching was first proclaimed as a direct revelation by a woman in Edward Irving's church, and then taken up by John Nelson Darby (and the Scofield Reference Bible) in direct contradiction to the teaching of the Church for eighteen hundred years."

H.A. Baker said, "Beginning with the lrvingite woman, then propagated by John N. Darby about 1830, this new "doctrine" has come down to us until it has become popular. GEORGE MULLER opposed it; so did Benjamin Wills Newton; so did Dr. S.P. Tregelles and other Brethren."

RESURRECTION TRUTH

Scripture does not show the amount of time between the events. It does however, establish the chronological order of the events, that is, it shows which event follows which event. The blowing of the LAST trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 clearly is tied in with the LAST trumpet of the book of Revelation. ( Revelation 10:7 and 11:15-19 ) Paul says concerning the Rapture that we shall be changed at the LAST trump. ( 1 Corinthians. 15:52 )

I blindly followed my denominational teaching by proclaiming that it would be first the Rapture then secondly the appearance of the Anti-christ. But I discovered that the scripture really says, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) The scripture says plainly, FIRSTLY the Anti-christ then SECONDLY the Rapture.

The word "Rapture" cannot be found in the Bible. Look it up and see! We have added that to our Christian vocabulary; God did not put it in His word. Many of my "Rapture" quoting friends have learned their lesson well, but I think they studied the wrong teacher.

CHURCH IS NOT READY YET

Jesus Christ is going to present a glorious Church without spot, or wrinkle (Ephesians5:27). It is obvious that the Church is not ready for His coming according to that standard. There is yet much perfecting of the Church to do, first, before Jesus comes.

It is a very grave error to promise Christians an escape instead of preparing them for the tribulation.

MORE BIBLE TRUTH

In studying 2 Thessalonians. 2:1, Dr. Oswald J. Smith said, "'He who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.' I learned from the Greek that the second 'he' is the Anti-christ, and that the Greek does not say 'taken out of the way', but 'revealed in the midst', or, 'born out of the midst'. In other words, lawlessness will be restrained until the appointed time for the lawless one, the Anti-christ, to appear. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit at all. That is a Scofield Bible assumption. The Holy Spirit and the Church remain to the end of the age."

SUPPER FOR SEVEN YEARS?

It is taught that after the Rapture we will all go to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and will be there for seven years, eating and enjoying ourselves while God punishes the world. A close analysis of the scripture in 1 Thessalonians. 4: 17 shows that the word "meet " was only used in two other places, in Scripture. In both places it means "returning with" and not "remaining at" the place of meeting. There is no Scripture anywhere in the Bible that says we will remain for seven years in the air. I have been taught that the Greek word "parousia" always referred to the Rapture and that other words were used for the Coming of Christ in glory after the tribulation. But I found that this also is not true. "Parousia" is used for the coming in glory , in 2 Thessalonians. 2:1.

I BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION

I believe that the saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation and we who are alive will meet them. Since the Rapture occurs after the tribulation, then every born again believer in Jesus Christ needs to be awakened to this truth. They need to prepare and perfect themselves, through the word, by the Holy Spirit. If I am wrong, then tell me so, all the way up. After the resurrection we will all be too busy for you to bother correcting me. But if I'm right you had better get ready right now because your hope of being taken out and away from the bad things may let you down and you may not have the power (Holy Spirit) to go through the trouble. Remember the parable of the virgins; five wise had oil (Holy Spirit) and five foolish did not.

If you are not saved - you had better get saved, fast!

If you have not received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed you had better start asking, fast! (Acts 19:2)

If your fire has been going out, you had better get hot - fast! ( Revelation 3:16 )

READ THE BIBLE

Let's look at some scriptures which are normally used to teach the Rapture to see if they really tell just WHEN the Rapture takes place.

1 THESSALONIANS 4: 13-17

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, Brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord. That we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch- angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There is no indication here as to just WHEN the resurrection takes place.

I used to read that and say, "See! Here is the pre- tribulation Rapture!" But now I see that there is no indication that the resurrection takes place before the tribulation. I just wanted it to read that way!

LUKE 21:36

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man.

The METHOD of escape is not identified. I used to say it was Rapture, but really, I did not have any scripture. I just wanted it to read that way.

1 THESSALONIANS 1:10

10 And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come.

It does not say HOW He delivered us. I said Rapture, but it does not. I just wanted it to read that way.

2 PETER 2:9

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the Godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished.

I said that means Rapture, but there is no indication of a Rapture. I just wanted it to read that way.

MATTHEW 24:39-40

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of Man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

I said that the Christian would be taken in the Rapture first and the sinner left, but the scripture does not say that at all. In fact, in Verse 39 it says that the unrighteous were taken away and the righteous left; just the opposite of what I said.

This most famous of all the Rapture scriptures teaches really that the Christians are LEFT and the bad ones are to be TAKEN. Matthew 13:30 says "Gather FIRST the tares (bad ones) ...to burn them."

I used to teach that we would be Raptured BEFORE the anti-Christ appeared but 2 Thessalonians 2:3 says that day shall NOT come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

I have taught over 20,000 fundamental Christians these new concepts. They formerly believed the same' traditions as I did. Not one person has ever found a single scripture that says we will be Raptured before the tribulation. Can you? I would like to hear from you, if you can.

When scripture conflicts with tradition, which should we believe? Change your mind; like I did!

© Israel My Beloved


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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



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Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Steven


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Re: Tribulation or Rapture - Which?


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http://rediscoveringthebible.com/Scruby2.pdf


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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: Tribulation or Rapture - Which?


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://rediscoveringthebible.com/Tregelles1.pdf

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The Hope of
Christ's Second Coming:
HOW IS IT TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE?
AND WHY?



















++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: Tribulation or Rapture - Which?

bump