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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
Lewis Brackett (25 Aug 2011)
"Ron, Obama can not be the AntiChrist using your 2008 timeline"
Sorry, Bro Ron, but Obama cant be the AC if you use your fall (October?) 2008 timeline as the covenant with many... According to Revelation, the 2nd seal the Gog Magog war happens shortly after the AC signs the Covenant followed by seal 3&4 world wide famine and plague....... We have not seen this so Obama is not the AC according to your 2008 timeline...... Where is the TEMPLE where are the sacrifices that the AC stops in mid tribulation which would be April or May 2012 ??? once again, no temple or sacrifices, Obama cant be the AC if the Covenant with many started the Tribulation in late 2008.
Now perhaps Obama could sign a Covenant with many some time in the future and become the AC, but that remains to be seen.
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
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Sherry Vance (26 Aug 2011)
"Reply to Lewis Brackett (25 Aug 2011) "Ron, Obama can not be the AntiChrist"
Lewis, you wrote: "According to Revelation, the 2nd seal the Gog Magog war happens shortly after the AC signs the Covenant....".
Forget the Seals and Gog Magog war for a momemt.....Could you please give a scriptural reference as to where it shows the antichrist SIGNS the covenant. Daniel 9:27 says he shall confirm the covenant. If something is confirmed, or strengthened or acknowleged, it has to exist already. So what is it the antichrist is confirming?
(It might help to first determine exactly what THE Covenant is.)
THE Covenant is none other than the Abrahamic Covenant promised by God to Abraham in Genesis 15:1-21 - specifically at verse 18 > "In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram saying, UNTO THY SEED HAVE I GIVEN THIS LAND, from the River of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates..."
God further confirmed this Covenant with Abram in Gen. 17 when He changed Abram's name to Abraham > particularly v.8 > "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, THE LAND wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING POSSESSION; and I will be their God."
How do we know that this is THE Covenant spoken of in Daniel 9:27 which is to be confirmed (strengthened/acknowledged) by the antichrist?....which, by the way, will be a LIE because we read in the same verse: "...and in the midst of THE week (meaning: the 70th Week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...." By knowing WHAT the Covenant IS, we can see why and how this Covenant will be broken. The antichrist is going to confirm/strengthen/acknowledge THE Covenant which is the Abrahamic Covenant given by God to Abraham tied to the LAND of Israel, giving the Jews the God-given right of possession to exist/live in that Land.
Speculatively speaking, this September, when the U.N. recognizes a Palestinian State, who do you think will likely announce this?....None other than the Head/Chairman of the United Nations Security Council....which just happens to be Barack Obama. In September 2009, Obama unconstitutionally took on this title. He will likely be the one to "guarantee Israel's PEACE AND SECURITY. Where have we heard these three words before? "For when they shall say, Peace and security; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." (I Thess. 5:3)
Now will Obama BE the antichrist at that point if the covenant is confirmed in September 2011? No. Why? Because the antichrist is not empowered by Satan until Satan is cast out of Heaven in the midst of the (70th) Week....(Rosh HaShanah 2011 to Rosh HaShanah 2012 is the midst/middle/4th year of the 7 years/70th Week.) But that is not a problem because the antichrist is not "revealed" until he is empowered by the cast-down-to-earth Satan. Obama is already in a "seat of authority" as the President of (what WAS at least) the greatest nation in the world. BUT, when Satan is cast to the earth and empowers the man who is the antichrist, Satan will give the antichrist his own seat of authority which is granted by God to him for the duration of the 3 1/2 year great tribulation....."...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." In other words, the antichrist will overrun and overwhelm God's people with many obominations until finally God's determined desolations will be poured upon the desolator himself !
Lewis, you also mentioned "seal 3&4 world wide famine and plague....... We have not seen this so Obama is not the AC according to your 2008 timeline......" Well, world hunger has been and is a major global problem. Already, at the dawn of the 21st century, 40 million men, women and children die EVERY YEAR from hunger, starvation, disease and malnutrition...roughly 40,000 of these are children. Today, more than 1 billion people in the world are chronically starving and malnurished.
"WE" have not seen this" because the United States throws away 100 billion tons of food a year. Currently, there is enough food grown on the planet to provide every man, woman and child with enough to eat - provided it gets distributed, which it does not. But with the increasing 'birth pangs of the Messiah' as we approach the final days, events such as earthquakes, tsunamis, radiation, riots, governments murdering their citizens, food shortage, crop failures, price increases, inflation, economic crises, and the like, will indeed cause and increase world wide famine - and with it, plagues.
But when Seals 3 & 4 are opened, it will be waaay worse than the world has ever experienced.
Lewis, you also asked another (extremely) important question: "Where is the TEMPLE where are the sacrifices that the AC stops..." From your question, I deduce that what you believe is that Israel must be back under Mosaic Law during the 70th Week and that the 'third temple' must be in operation at the time of the rapture. But looking for this "tribulation temple" will throw you right off the track of the Timeline. Here is why I don't believe a "tribulation/antichrist temple" will be built:
In Matthew 24:15, Jesus referenced Daniel and the abomination of desolation by the hands of Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC. The question is.....was Jesus,
in prophesying of the time of the Great Tribulation, saying that the (physical act of) abomination of desolation (in a physical temple) was going to happen twice, or was He telling us that what Antiochus did physically was a prophetic forerunner of what was to come in the spiritual?
I believe it was a forerunner of what was to come in the spiritual for this reason:
The supernatural aspects of the Temple (the eternal flame, the presence of God in the Holy of Holies, etc.) ceased at the time of the crucifixion, and we know that the veil was torn the very hour of Christ's death (Luke 23:45) as a way of the Father saying that He was finished with a physical structure as the temple. With the Risen Christ, we now have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (we being the "temple") and we have a High Priest/Advocate On High to minister and intercede on our behalf.
Acts 17:24 - "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands."
1 Cor. 3:16 - Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?"
1 Cor. 6:19 - "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit?"
Acts 7:48 - "The Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands."
God now sees only one "temple" > the "body of Christ." And even if a physical temple were built as a "Tribulation Temple," it would be an insult to the completed work of Christ and God would not consider it "the holy place." What He considers "the holy place" - the temple - is the individual bodies of Believers; and on that fact, I do not see the "abomination" to be yet another desecration of a physcial rebuilt temple.
I see as what Antiochus did physically, the antichrist will do spiritually within the TRUE "temple" or "holy place" which is the BODY of Believers. Indeed, the antichrist will "cause the sacrifices and oblations (prayers) to cease" when he begins killing those who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Second Thessalonians 2:3-4 says, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except for there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sittith in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
To most Christians, the most important word in that passage seems to be the word "sittith" and from that they deduce & assume there is a rebuilt temple. However, the rest of the verse says, "...sittith in the temple of God." Again, we know that after Jesus was crucified, God sees the body of Believers as the spiritual temple. From this we MUST reason that if the antichrist "sits" or "stands" anywhere in a "temple", it must be that he is sitting or standing in the midst of the body of Believers who are also called "Living Sacrifices" and their "oblations" which are their prayers. It therefore stands to reason, as well, that when these Believers reject and oppose the antichrist, he will seek to put an END TO THE SACRIFICES (the Living Sacrifices-Believers) by killing them, which will cause their oblations/prayers to cease.
I believe the future abomination is not going to be committed in a physically rebuilt "temple" (which would not be recognized as "God's Temple" anyway) but will be committed within "the Holy Place" of the temple" which is among Believers.
Dan 9:27 - "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
The (as yet unrevealed) antichrist will confirm (strengthen, acknowledge) THE (Abrahamic Covenant tied to the LAND which God promised Israel) and this, I believe, could come when Obama, Head of the United Nations SECURITY Council declares a Palestinian State, yet tries to ease the mind of Israel that they DO have a right to exist in the Land as well. This is the confirmation of the Covenant (tied to the Land) that will be broken at the revelation of the antichrist at mid-point of the 70th Week.
The revelation of the antichrist occurs with the opening of the First Seal and he goes forth conquering - THIS is at the time of the abomination (mid-point), when the antichrist is revealed for who/what he is when he declares himself god. There is no mention of "the confirming of the Covenant" within the First Seal at all. But in the midst of THE 70th WEEK when he is revealed, he will break with the Covenant as he goes forth to conquer - WHO? - the Jews; and because God has limited him in preserving a Remnant of His people, and the antichrist knows they are "hands off" he is enraged and then turns to go after the saints/Believers, to persecute & kill those who hold the testimony of Christ....who are the Temple of God, not made with hands.
God "no longer dwells in temples made of stone." NOWHERE does it state a temple is "rebuilt." It's the same assumptive error that is made when saying "a covenant is signed and there is a 7 year tribulation. WHERE??????
People assume there will be a rebuilt temple also because they see a reference to "measuring" of that temple. However, though John was given a "reed like unto a ROD" to measure "the Temple" but no measurements were given or recorded, WHY? Because you cannot measure PEOPLE! Yet those PEOPLE, who become believers in Christ, ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD and when the antichrist SITS or STANDS "in the holy place," or "temple," there is a spiritual application in that he is sitting or standing IN THE MIDST of the temple, OR amongst the people. There is no physical "holy place" that can be called such for the antichrist....neither any MEASUREMENTS given for a temple to be built.... nor even a scriptural description of a so-called 'Tribulation Temple' - which people ASSUME is there because they fail to see the spiritual application.
In Rev. 11, regarding the so-called tribulation temple, an angel stood and gave John "a reed like unto a rod", saying, "Rise, measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." A reed was also used to measure the former temples....however, they are said to be a "golden reed" or a "reed like unto gold."
Why is the reference of a REED LIKE UNTO A ROD given for the temple mentioned in Revelation? A rod suggests punishment. The ROD speaks of judgment, chastisement. It is a reed like unto judgment that references the temple. You can't punish a building. You can punishment people. Why the punishment? Because those who are going through the Great Tribulation were left behind after the Rapture. They must now go through this chastisement for their previous unbelief, although they are saved, although they themselves are now the Temple of the Holy Spirit, they will be martyred for their testimony for Christ. The Temple will be 'measured'with a ROD, not a golden reed.
Ezekiel's future Temple is that which the Lord will build in His Millennial Kingdom. The measurements that are given for that future Temple exceed what could even be built on the existing Temple Mount. But during the Great Tribulation, the topography of Mt. Zion will drastically be altered.
Theologians, churches, people today are making the same mistake the Jews made at Jesus' First Advent. The Jews looked for a physical deliverance....today people are expecting a physical "tribulation temple" to be built, which would supposedly shed light on God's Timeline regarding the end-days. But at Jesus' First Advent He offered Spiritual Deliverance, and is STILL offering spiritual deliverance and eternal life with Him to those who will believe He paid the penalty for our sins and has redeemed us.
In fact, way back in Zechariah 6:12 it speaks about the promise of the future true building of the spiritual temple by Messiah....."Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord." This PROVES the "temple of the Lord" is that of Living Believers!!!!!
At His First Coming, Jesus is The BRANCH....not yet a 'whole tree'.....He shall GROW up (out of Bethlehem, come of age, and begin His 3 1/2 year ministry.....HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD by paying the penalty for sins, by redeeming those who believe on Him, and by giving them His Holy Spirit to indwell them, forever sanctifying them. He sure didn't build a literal physical temple, did he? In fact, He foretold the destruction of the one already standing in His day.
Verse 13 begins by speaking about the SPIRITUAL TEMPLE of LIVING BELIEVERS in which He will be glorified...."Even he shall build the temple of the Lord, and he shall bear the glory." He doesn't "bear the glory" from a physical building! He bears the glory from those who live and have our being in Him!
And then the verse continues as it refers to the literal temple which He will build when He returns the Second Time - as evidenced saying, "and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both." Again, there is a distinction between the spiritual temple which the Lord began building -and which He is still doing- and the literal temple which He will build when He returns. There is a marked difference, indeed preference and superiority, in that He bears the glory of those who honor, obey, and worship Him IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH; as opposed to an earthly, physical building. (The reason for the Millennial Temple, anyway, will be for a Memorial, in fact, for commemorating many memorials through its worship, rites, and sacrifices and all of it will be centered on the Lamb of God who was slain.
One of the things people have forgotten about Daniel was that during his captivity in Babylon, THERE WAS NO TEMPLE. It had been destroyed and Daniel had been taken captive. YET, Daniel believed and worshipped the God of Israel. Daniel himself, as far as God was concerned, was the Temple of God. His heart, soul, mind, and spirit were the Temple in which he worshipped God. He was a LIVING SACRIFICE in that he was captive in a foreign land yet remained true to the Living God of Israel. He also offered OBLATIONS (prayers) to God several times daily. Yet there was no physical temple for him to do this in.
Could King Nebuchadnezzar have defiled the Temple of God by stopping (killing) the (living) sacrifices, thus causing the oblations (prayers) to cease..... just as the antichrist will? YES . In fact he tried. When Nebuchadnezzar SET UP AN IMAGE/IDOL (again, just as the antichrist will) to be worshipped, he threatened that whosoever refused "should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace." "And there were certain Jews whom thou has set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego....." who refused...."O king, we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou has set up." And guess what? They were bound and cast into the burning fiery furnace. Yet they didn't burn. In fact, Nebuchadnezzar commanded the fire be notched up 7 times hotter. But they were still safe for the Angel of the Lord stood among them.
What I am trying to say is this>>> it is going to be the same during the Great Tribulation. There doesn't have to be a physical temple built in order to have sacrifices and oblations stopped by the antichrist. When Jesus died, the Veil in the Temple was torn in two....representing the FINAL SACRIFICE, (Lamb of God) had been made. There is no longer a need for a Temple and sin & guilt sacrifices. Jesus had begun building His Spiritual Temple and has been building it ever since. His Blood Sacrifice was made once for all. The next Temple that will be built will be the one He will build in His Millennial Kingdom.....which is The Third Temple/the Millennial Temple, which is the Temple found in Ezekiel 40, will be built by Jesus, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There you will find all the measurements needed to SEE that a physical Temple will be built!
The conclusion as to why expecting a rebuilt tribulation temple will throw you right off the track of the Timeline is because if, as some say, a 7 year Tribulation will begin this fall of 2011, then WHERE IS THE TEMPLE? Answer: There will be none. The True Temple is the living breathing worshipping loving trusting body of the Believer...they are the living sacrifices who will not love their lives unto death.
Lewis, the last part of your concluding sentence shows you don't believe we are in the 70th Week (mid tribulation which would be April or May 2012 ???) because there are "no temple or sacrifices, Obama cant be the AC if the Covenant with many started the Tribulation in late 2008." Well, in consideration of the explanations above, there does not have to be a rebuilt physical temple, nor an implementation of Old Testament animal sacrifices for us to be in the 70th Week (with the mid-point around Passover 2012.) And YES, the 70th Week did begin at Rosh Hashanah 2008 - and with it the election of Obama, despite nobody even knowing anything about him.....he's a complete enigma....a radical riddle. Yet God knows exactly what He's doing in setting up the players for the end days before Jesus returns. Here is a summary of the Timeline:
Rabbi's in Israel celebrated the last Shmita (Sabbath) year from Sept 22, 2007 to Oct 8, 2008. The next Shmita (Sabbath) year occurs 7 yrs later from Oct. 4, 2014 to Sept. 22, 2015, the next day being Jubilee from Sept. 23, 2015 to Oct. 11, 2016.
The 7th day is a sabbath rest day, the 7th year (Shmita) is a sabbath rest year, and the 7th Shmita is the 49th year, with the next 50th year being Jubilee...then the cycle starts all over.
A Hebrew year intersects 2 of our years. And so if you add 49 yrs to 1967 you get 2016, or add 50 yrs to 1967 you get 2017. But the last Jubilee didn't start in '67, it began in '66 and ran through to '67 (Sep. 24, 1966 to Oct. 13, 1967). Consider, If the Jubilee didn't begin until Atonement of '67 (Oct 14, 1967), then Israel would have captured Jerusalem before Jubilee even began, which would be outside the laws of Jubilee...since all land is recaptured, debts cancelled, slaves set free WITHIN the year of Jubilee. But instead, if you add 49 yrs to Sept. 24, 1966 you come to Sept. 22, 2015, with the very next day of Sept. 23, 2015 being the first day of that 50th year...Jubilee.
Israel capturing Jerusalem did not start the Jubilee, Jerusalem was recaptured by Israel WITHIN the year of Jubilee which had already begun 8 months earlier on the Feast of Atonement/Yom Kippur.
This ultimately reinforces Daniel 9:25 and the 7 weeks (49 years). Because if you take 49 Hebrew years (17,460 days) from Israel capturing Jerusalem on June 7, 1967...you ALSO end up at September 23, 2015 which is the Feast of Atonement/Yom Kippur, and next Jubilee. Here are the past Shmita years which have been observed by rabbis since Israel became a nation. They confirm our Timeline.
1916-17 - Sabbath year belonging to previous cycle (7th shmita/49th year)
1917-18 - 1st year in cycle - Jubilee - Gen. Allenby captures Jerusalem from
Turks Dec. 1918
1919 - 2nd year in cycle
1920 -3rd year in cycle
1921 - 4th year in cycle
1922 - 5th year in cycle
1923 - 6th year in cycle
1923-24 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (1)
1925 - 1st year in cycle
1926 - 2nd year in cycle
1927 - 3rd year in cycle
1928 - 4th year in cycle
1929 - 5th year in cycle
1930 - 6th year in cycle
1930-31 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (2)
1932 - 1st year in cycle
1933 - 2nd year in cycle
1934 - 3rd year in cycle
1935 - 4th year in cycle
1936 - 5th year in cycle
1937 - 6th year in cycle
1937-38 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (3)
1939 - 1st year in cycle
1940 - 2nd year in cycle
1941 - 3rd year in cycle
1942 - 4th year in cycle
1943 - 5th year in cycle
1944 - 6th year in cycle
1944-45 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (4) - began the 70 year count
1946 - 1st year in cycle
1947 - 2nd year in cycle
1948 - 3rd year in cycle
1949 - 4th year in cylce
1950 - 5th year in cycle
1951 - 6th year in cycle
1951-52 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (5) - 7th year of 70 years
1953 - 1st year in cycle
1954 - 2nd year in cycle
1955 - 3rd year in cycle
1956 - 4th year in cycle
1957- 5th year in cycle
1958 - 6th year in cycle
1958-59 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (6) - 14th year of 70 years
1960 - 1st year in cycle
1961 - 2nd year in cycle
1962 - 3rd year in cycle
1963 - 4th year in cycle
1964 - 5th year in cycle
1965 - 6th year in cycle
1965-66 - 7th year in cycle - 7th Sabbath year (7th Shmita/49th year)
- 21st year of 70 years
1966-67 - 1st year in cycle - 50th year - Jubilee - Israel captures Jerusalem
in Six Day War. (Notice: Jerusalem was captured in 1918 AND 1967:
both were Jubilee Years.)
1968 - 2nd year in cycle
1969 - 3rd year in cycle
1970 - 4th year in cycle
1971 - 5th year in cycle
1972 - 6th year in cycle
1972-73 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (1) - 28th year of 70 years
1974 - 1st year in cycle
1975 - 2nd year in cycle
1976 - 3rd year in cycle
1977 - 4th year in cycle
1978 - 5th year in cycle
1979 - 6th year in cycle
1979-80 - 7th year inc cycle - Sabbath year (2) - 35th year of 70 years
1981 - 1st year in cycle
1982 - 2nd year in cycle
1983 - 3rd year in cycle
1984 - 4th year in cycle
1985 - 5th year in cycle
1986 - 6th year in cycle
1986-87 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (3) - 42nd year of 70 years
1988 - 1st year in cycle
1989 - 2nd year in cycle
1990 - 3rd year in cycle
1991 - 4th year in cycle
1992 - 5th year in cycle
1993 - 6th year in cycle
1993-94 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (4) - 49th year of 70 years
1995 - 1st year in cycle
1996 - 2nd year in cycle
1997 - 3rd year in cycle
1998 - 4th year in cycle
1999 - 5th year in cycle
2000 - 6th year in cycle
2000-01 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (5) - 56th year of 70 years
2002 - 1st year in cycle
2003 - 2nd year in cycle
2004 - 3rd year in cycle
2005 - 4th year in cycle
2006 - 5th year in cycle
2007 - 6th year in cycle
2007-08 - 7th year in cycle - Sabbath year (6) - 63rd year of 70 years
2009 - 1st year in cycle
2010 - 2nd year in cycle
2011 - 3rd year in cycle
2012 - 4th year in cycle
2013 - 5th year in cycle
2014 - 6th year in cycle
2014-15 - 7th year in cycle - 7th Sabbath year (7th Shmita/49th year)
*Jesus Christ's Second Coming - 70th year of 70 years!
2015-2016 - 50th year - Sabbath & The Year of Jubilee)