Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

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 THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY  BIBLE VERSES SHOWING  7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)

 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."  I Corin. 15:52

The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

  9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS

KJV

        JESUS IS COMING SOON!

       We are followers of JESUS Only

 Seekers of the truth start here by praying

to the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. 

Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV


THE BIBLE IS THE INERRANT WORD OF YHWH

THE BIBLE IS FREE OF ERROR IN ALL IT'S TEACHINGS AND INSPIRED BY THE WORD OF YHWH

JESUS IS GOD

JESUS is GOD/GOD Son:

JESUS is The WORD

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things
KJV

Ps 122:6

Psa. 122:6   Pray  shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters):  prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.


KJV

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THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT

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What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

This story is not new and been told before. I present it to the viewer in hopes that those that discount such a place as Hell being a real place might want to take a different look at it and where it is located. No, Hell it is not in the center of a round Earth. It is not the place where none-believers spend eternity but is the place prepared for Satan and his followers. Where is it located? In the area of the Pillars below the Earth.

The screams of torment are real and they never end. But who are they that are screaming? Have you heard people say about someone who has passed away that now they are in peace? In a way, that is true, they sleep in their graves while their spirit returns to the One who gave it. They sleep until the Resurrection and the Judgment. So, if the body/soul is asleep as the scriptures, we have cited in the past, indicate and the spirit within that body has returned to the God, then who is it that is screaming and waiting for the day when an angel will be given the key to open this Abyss?

Anyone that has been following this Website in all of the research that Steven has presented knows that we have covered the issue of CERN and what it is attempting to do AND, according to scripture will accomplish. Not only do they plan on opening the door to the Abyss but they hope to crack through the very hard core that God has placed over the Earth. We know that the door will be opened and the King of those held there will return with his demon army. They will have five months in which they are allowed to torment those that do not have God's Mark upon them. Revelation 9:1 (KJV) "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."

When you read the words "Bottomless Pit" and you see where it really is, you will understand why it is called Bottomless. If the earth were round, it could not be bottomless, could it? Wait until you see just where it is located: it is in the center of the four pillars....down, down, down it goes; it is bottomless.


https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/d0inkL6QMFHZvAhEFb6lEeNc5GTxCN2zhRAFVR0IUzU_At47Cw6PEPWPCDbSmcgHIShLPaXvw2-8ua3tf-rWNy8=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.lhup.edu/%7Edsimanek/enoch24.gif

And for those that do not believe in a hollow earth; according to the the theory of a Round Earth, no, there is no hell in it's core. You are partially right. Why? The Earth is not a ball with a hollow center. But, what it is shaped as is exactly like scripture defines it. Earth is flat like a plate with boundaries around it that hold the waters of the deep. It is much like a soup bowl with a glass dome over it, which the scriptures have told us; especially in the Book of Job. Along with that, it has the Pillars of the Deep, which is the place of the Abyss which was prepared for Lucifer and his angels. I Sam. 2:8

Pillars of the Deep

Job 37:17 (like a looking glass?) The Sky is spread out and strong


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpd7f5HJ5dOKYI1O6_99QCntgRAIe1e8DPOekoSX1l3DlS4AnAHA


https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgjZhhhfNF60N52mlMLP-p7YNGqqvAwMCDwVxzYqyNDDNENyrX

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the Earth. This is not speaking of a round sphere but the circle that God drew for the shape of the earth (you know, circle shaped like a bowl)

I think we all have believed that Eternal Punishment in Hell was where the unbeliever went upon death. With each passing day, just as the Lord promised that in the End of Days, knowledge would be revealed to us, we are learning that the unbeliever does not face punishment forever but only as long as it takes to burn up the resurrected body that God had said, "Depart from me, I never knew you". It will be consumed in the fire for however long it takes for the body/rubbish to burn up. The gift obtained by receiving Jesus Christ is Eternal Life, which others who follow the way of Satan and his lies, will not enjoy.

Doesn't that bring another question to your mind? It does me. If there has been a Rapture of God's people, then who are those on earth who have His Mark upon them which this "locust" army cannot touch??? I know what the answer will be because I used to give it myself even though it didn't fit scriptures. It was just the pat answer given by those of the Left Behind Series. In other words, "Oh, No, where are my loved ones...they must have gotten raptured...now I will believe in Christ but I must go through a period of Tribulation seven years long." Sound familiar? We used to believe it so hard that we even printed out letters to our loved ones telling them where we went and why they weren't taken but someday we would see them if they accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. Back in 1988, it drove our children away from us; it seems they had more sense than we did.

Meanwhile, we are here watching events taking place while Hell expands itself as the Bible tells us. Just a couple of weeks ago, the whole earth was enthralled by the Pope coming to America speaking to all the leaders of the world at the United Nations. Can you see why Hell is expanding it's boundaries?

So, we should be open to the fact that there really is a place at the South Pole where the screams of the Fallen Angels, who have been bound up, are screaming for release. When you watch the presentation of the Flat Earth, you will see that the South Pole is seen on both edges of this "Plate" and where is the "Sides of the North" which Satan has said He Will ascend and occupy the throne? It is right in the center of the Earth (Plate..if we are still looking at it as an example).

The Bible tells us that the Earth is His footstool. Isn't that interesting when we think of a round footstool with it's rounded cushion that looks like the Globe which God put over it? That is where Satan wants to ascend and occupy the sides of the North, which leads to the very Throne of the Creator Himself. He still keeps trying even though he know he has no chance but he is determined to take as many as possible with him in his destruction.

And what makes this even more exciting is that we now learn that the Earth does not travel around the Sun but, in fact, the Sun travels around the Earth. The Sun, Moon, Stars, Planets, all have their routes that they must follow. The seasons and weather patterns are determined by God's design just as He has told Enoch, Job, Isaiah and other prophets. These are all things we could never quite comprehend before but, true to God's promise, in these End Days, we are now able to grasp their meaning.

The 4 short discussions within this video will clear up a lot of misunderstanding if we just would take the time to look at it. There have been enemies of God who serve Satan who have spend century after century keeping these truths from us. They want the traveler to think that it takes days and days to travel from one point of the world to the other when it fact, it takes only a fraction of the time. After all, all points are a straight shot when flying because the Earth is Flat. It is the same with the Rapture. It has been taught as a detour to the truth which is that there is only the Resurrection of the Dead AND then the Living who will join them to meet the Lord in the air.

Goodness! Don't you believe that God can take care of you during Great Tribulation and if it is not your destiny, He will give you the Grace to suffer and die for Him just like He gave to the early believers. Perhaps, you will even be granted a peaceful death in a sick-bed.

Why would anybody want to hang on to such False Faith in a Rapture that will not take place. The Feasts of the Lord are about the three Harvests, not a Rapture.

1. The First Fruit Harvest has already taken place when Jesus brought those out of Abraham's Bosom with him.

2. The Next Harvest is the Wheat Harvest of the Living to join the Dead who have been called up at the Resurrection.

3. And the one, you do not want to be a part of is "The Tares" who will be taken out and burned. They are also referred to as the Grapes of Wrath that will be put through the Winepress.

I hope you will take a look at the Flat Earth information so that you can see how much has been learned and taught on this site through all of the research done by Steven. In fact, Steven has posted all of Rob Skiba's information on this issue of the Flat Earth, in which Rob, himself, a skeptic who was determined to prove it was wrong, using the Bible, came to the conclusion it is the Round Earth that is the False Theory. Thank God for people who are determined to find out the truth and not accept something just because it has been taught for years & years.

Flat Earth Answers - Truth Prevails!

This video is broken up into 4 main parts:

Part 1: Divine Creation
Part 2: Controlled Opposition
Part 3: Questions and Answers
Part 4: The Bible

...With plenty of extras in-between!

As always, I try to keep my videos unique but I have to give credit to Jhenningkelloggia, Rob Skiba and anyone else whose models I used in this video (if I didn't mention you let me know, I'm happy to give you a shout out) So enjoy, share and feel free to use whatever material you find on this channel that is of use. God bless!


HTTPS://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdxgIyEPCxk


Romans 10:9-13

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

WARNING - WATCH AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION

Gerlinda

They drilled into hell ! WHAT !!! Shocking sounds from beneath the earth

HTTPS://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpBUiNJh928

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

25 TFR - TRRP - We need to test ALL things!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8fc1g7JqLg

26 TFR - TRRP - Flat Earth?? What would be the motive for such a deception?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUiSu5RP7eE

How the 4 seasons work on the Flat Earth Model

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52_PdZlSq8

Stellarium shows the sun moving faster in January than in June

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtrpaAdr2Ck

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

Continue....page 3

Scriptures concerning the nature of the earth below the firmament:

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Genesis 1:
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.


2 Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:
9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

Psalm 104:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Psalm 136:
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.


Proverbs 8:
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 43:6 I'll say to the north, 'Give them up'! and to the south, 'Don't keep them back!' Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.

Scriptures concerning the nature of the sun, moon and stars:

Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Psalms 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Psalm 136:
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Again, applying no preconceived notions upon the text, how do you imagine a newcomer to the Scriptures would view the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars just based on what you've read here?

http://www.seedtheseries.com/blog/BibleEarth.html

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

Continue....page 4

Scriptures concerning the nature of the earth below the firmament:

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Genesis 1:
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.


2 Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:
9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

Psalm 104:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Psalm 136:
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.


Proverbs 8:
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 43:6 I'll say to the north, 'Give them up'! and to the south, 'Don't keep them back!' Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.

Scriptures concerning the nature of the sun, moon and stars:

Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Psalms 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Psalm 136:
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Again, applying no preconceived notions upon the text, how do you imagine a newcomer to the Scriptures would view the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars just based on what you've read here?

http://www.seedtheseries.com/blog/BibleEarth.html

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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THE BIBLE AND THE STILL FLAT EARTH
If I were to be perfectly honest here, I'd have to say that I do not get a spherical globe, spinning around in an endless void of space from my reading of the above Scriptures. The Bible seems to be telling us, in no uncertain terms, that we live on a still (as in stationary), flat, enclosed earth. The following explains why I believe this way.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

This is an introductory statement. It establishes the fact that Elohim is the creator of everything. From there, the text goes on to describe how He did it:

2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

Out of nowhere we have water. We never see anything about it being created. It's just there as a result of the opening statement and it is "deep." The Hebrew word "heaven" is shamyim. The word for water is, mayim. Thus it would appear that water and heaven have some sort of connection to one another right from the start. After the creation of "light" as day and the declaration that "dark" is night, a "firmament" appears to separate the mayim waters above from the mayim waters below. The word for "firmament" is raqia. This is where things start to get interesting. Note how Brown-Drive-Briggs defines it:



There is a principle of Biblical hermeneutics known as the "Law of First Mention" (or some derivation of that), which states that you look at how a word or concept is first introduced and then consider how it is understood and used elsewhere in light of that first use. The website, biblicalresearch.info describes this law as follows:

The fourth rule of interpretation is THE LAW OF FIRST MENTION.


The meaning of the law of First Mention: The Law of First Mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine.


When this law is applied the simple precedes the complex.


A history of the development of anything will show that it sprang from something in the very simplest form (for example the steamship; airplane; automobile)
In the Scriptures the growth and development of ideas and doctrine might be illustrated by some simple word.
Throughout the history of a term it may have increased its meaning and undergone certain changes, yet the basic, original, fundamental thought is seldom lost.
The fundamental concept usually controls or is dominant in coloring every shade of idea expressed by a term in its current usage
Source:[url http://www.biblicalresearch.info/page48.html[/url]

II. The Meaning Of The Law Of First Mention


The law of first mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine. When we thus see the first appearance, which is usually in the simplest form, we can then examine the doctrine in other portions of the Word that were given later. We shall see that the fundamental concept in the first occurrence remains dominant as a rule, and colors all later additions to that doctrine. In view of this fact, it becomes imperative that we understand the law of first mention.

Source: http://www.biblicalresearch.info/page56.html

With this in mind, in Genesis 1, we have a description of something that would become the sky overhead. But Genesis is not the first Holy Spirit inspired book of Scripture. Job is. Therefore, regarding the sky, let's consider how the oldest book of the Bible describes it:

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

If Job is in fact the oldest book, then Genesis doesn't establish the law of first mention, Job does. Either way, you end up with the same conclusion, backed by the two "beginning" books of the Bible. Genesis begins the Torah, which is the foundation of our whole Bible. Job, being the oldest written text in the Bible fully supports what we see in Genesis. But in Job, we see that the sky is spread out like a molten looking glass, or as other translations render it a cast metal (bronze) mirror:

So much for the notion that the sky/heaven above us consists of just gaseous air. We apparently have a hard canopy somewhere, very high above us. OK. Let's keep testing that idea. Why does it need to be so hardened?

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

So, YHWH's throne sits on top of the firmament, which is described as being cast like a metal mirror! The idea of YHWH's throne being atop the "firmament" is not unusual:

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

In a Facebook post I quoted the above as sort of a joke asking, What kind of "footstool" spins around 1,000 mph, while running away at 67,000 mph? YHWH's "throne" sounds like a ride at Disney World. He must get really dizzy. Either that, or maybe the Earth is His treadmill and they just didn't know how to describe that in Isaiah's day? :) I originally said that as a joke, but now I am not so sure it is. Remember, we are reading the Scriptures without preconceived notions. The prophets seem to be telling us - point-blank - that YHWH's throne sits atop the firmament, which would thus have His feet planted on the hard canopy that surrounds the earth. While the firmament is not technically the "earth" as in the mass upon which land and sea are found, the firmament is part of the system that makes the earth what it is.This brings us to the Scripture many have tried to use concerning the shape of the earth:

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

In the past, I have used this same verse to defend the globe idea of the earth myself. But there is a difference between a circle and a globe/sphere/ball. An ice-skating rink is a circle. We skate on it, going round and round, but never, up, over and around. It is not a sphere. It is an enclosure in the shape of a circle. So also it would appear that the Earth is. Check out the Septuagint's version of this same verse:

Isaiah 40:22 (LXX) [It is] he that comprehends the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants in it are as grasshoppers; he that set up the heaven as a chamber, and stretched [it] out as a tent to dwell in:

Without trying to literally force a globe onto this text, it describes a circular earth that has a heaven (beaten metallic expanse) set up over it as a "chamber," which is stretched out like a "tent" for us to dwell in. This is describing an enclosed system! How enclosed is it? Let's go back to Genesis...

Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.



Please note that the sun, moon and stars are placed inside the enclosed "firmament." Now, as a believer in the globe model my whole life and a strong advocate for the Creation account of our origins, I have always talked a lot about the firmament as sort of an "ice canopy" that surrounded the Earth before the Flood. Many times, I have referred to the wonderful work of Dr. Carl Baugh and Kent Hovind among others to support that view. But, I subscribed to their model, because like them, I have always believed in the globe representation of the Earth floating in space. See what I've done there? I've forced my own preconceived ideas onto the text as a result of listening to great men of God who have done the same thing. But that's not what Moses wrote! He didn't say God placed the sun, moon and stars around the Earth. He said YHWH placed those things in the firmament that was dividing the waters above from the waters below.

Just to be sure, let's go back and read Genesis 1, verses 1 through 18 to keep the continuity clear:

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament {that divided the waters} Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

In verses 7 & 8, we see that essentially the "pocket of air," which is dividing water above from water below is called "Heaven." Verse 9 is talking about stuff under that heaven, which would become the land, vegetation and seas. This is all inside the dome! Verse 14 never takes us outside of that setting. Nor does the rest of the chapter. The entire chapter from verse 8 forward is "under the dome"! I never noticed that before, because I wasn't looking for it. But there it is. Plain as day... If not imposing preconceived notions upon the text.

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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Indeed, this "under the dome" view of the earth was not foreign to the ancients. Many ancient cultures had some variation of this general view of the earth:







In ancient Egypt, their god "Nut" was depicted as the canopy. You will see similar depictions to the one on the right all over Egyptian iconography. It kind of makes me wonder if this is why people think you are "nuts" for believing in what I am talking about here. LOL! Maybe it's just a coincidence. Regardless, an online article, titled "The Flat-Earth Bible," written by Robert J. Schadewald, © 1987, 1995, states some things worth quoting here (I recommend you actually read the entire article too):

The Biblical cosmology is never explicitly stated, so it must be pieced together from scattered passages. The Bible is a composite work, so there is no a priori reason why the cosmology assumed by its various writers should be relatively consistent, but it is. [color]red]The Bible is, from Genesis to Revelation, a flat-earth book.[/color]

This is hardly surprising. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.

The Babylonian universe was shaped like a modern domed stadium. The Babylonians considered the earth essentially flat, with a continental mass surrounded by ocean. The vault of the sky was a physical object resting upon the ocean's waters (and perhaps also upon pillars). Sweet (salt-free) waters below the Earth sometimes manifest themselves as springs. The Egyptian universe was also enclosed, but it was rectangular instead of round. Indeed, it was shaped much like an old-fashioned steamer trunk. (The Egyptians pictured the goddess Nut stretched across the sky as the enclosing dome.) What was the Hebrew view of the universe?

The Order of Creation

The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology. The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint. The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above”) the vault.

The Vault of Heaven

The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. The word “firmament” appears in the King James version of the Old Testament 17 times, and in each case it is translated from the Hebrew word raqiya, which meant the visible vault of the sky. The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?”

Elihu's question shows that the Hebrews considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:

Job 9:8, “...who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]...”
Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”
Psalm 102:25, “...the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”
Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...”
Isaiah 48:13, “...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...”

If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing.Shamayim comes from shameh, a root meaning to be lofty. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in...[Isaiah 40:22].” Chuwg literally means “circle” or “encompassed.” By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In Job, God's eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: “Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.”

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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This picture of the cosmos is reinforced by Ezekiel's vision. The Hebrew word raqiya appears five times in Ezekiel, four times in Ezekiel 1:22-26 and once in Ezekiel 10:1. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. The vault appears above the “living creatures” and glitters “like a sheet of ice.” Above the vault is a throne of sapphire (or lapis lazuli). Seated on the throne is “a form in human likeness,” which is radiant and “like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.” In short, Ezekiel saw a vision of God sitting throned on the vault of heaven, as described in Isaiah 40:22.

Source: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm [bold emphasis mine]

Going back to the Isaiah 40:22 passage, it has been claimed by many (including me in times past) that "circle" is a description of the Earth as a globe. As Robert J. Schadewald points out, the Hebrew word used here is "chug" (pronounced "khoog"), but is this the word one would use for a ball-shaped object? No. The word comes from another very similar word, both of which mean:

THERE ARE SOME IMAGES THAT WOULD NOT ALLOW COPY AND PASTE. Please look at the original site.

Taking the Law of First Mention into account again, we must realize that there was precedence set for the "circle of the earth" prior to Isaiah writing about it. King Solomon is telling us the "circle" Isaiah would later write about (likely being fully aware of what Solomon wrote) was cut into something that was deep. In Genesis, we saw the waters were deep. Then the Holy Spirit moved across the waters. A firmament was created to separate the waters, then the waters under it were gathered into one place and the dry land "appeared." Could it be that when, YHWH "carved a circle in the deep," this was how the waters were divided and the land was revealed? I don't know, but I'm definitely not seeing a ball showing up anywhere in these descriptions. Let's continue looking at the oldest book of the Bible again:

Job 26:10 (NASB) He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.

Job 26:10 (KJV) He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

The KJV uses the word "compassed" in this verse, but the English words mean the same thing: A circular ring that creates a boundary. In this case, the word translated as "inscribed a circle" in the NASB and "compassed the waters" in the KJV is the same word (chug) used in Isaiah 40:22. So, let's put all of these parallel Scriptures together in the chronological order of time in which they were written:

Job 26:10 (NASB) He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.

Genesis 1 (KJV):
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament {that divided the waters} Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.

And finally...

Isaiah 40:22 (KJV) It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Here we see Job, Moses and Solomon setting the stage, with Isaiah actually being the last one in this list to write of these things. Based on the Law of First Mention then, we must understand that he is only confirming what has already been said by others before him concerning how YHWH literally carved a circle into the deep. This kind of language does not give us a picture of a ball floating in endless space. Rather it gives us something that looks more along the lines of the following, which depicts the earth as being a circular mass carved into a base of something else that has 4 corners:

http://www.seedtheseries.com/blog/BibleEarth.HTML

Part 3 Flat Earth by Rob Skiba



When we get to the Book of Enoch's take on this, you will see the earth and its boundary described in much greater detail. In the meantime, consider also what the Psalmist said:

Psalm 104:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Which image now better fits what we are reading thus far concerning our circular earth with a boundary around it?



We’ve been taught that the Earth is spinning, with its surface at the equator moving at a speed of roughly 1,000 miles per hour. And we’re told the Earth is zooming around the sun at about 67,000 miles per hour. In addition, our solar system--Earth and all--whirls around the center of our galaxy at some 490,000 miles per hour… but there are a number of Scriptures describing the Earth as being fixed and not moving. This particular passage from Job really caught my attention:

Job 38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Again, Job is believed by many to have been the first book of Scripture written. In it, we see in verse 1 that YHWH Himself is speaking. This is the Creator talking here! He speaks of "laying a foundation" with a "corner stone" that is "fastened" in place. If ever there was a Flat Earther, anti-globalist Scripture, this one is it. How do you twist and distort that Scripture to fit a rotating globe, freely floating in space? Where is the "fastened foundation" with a "corner stone" in that model? Using the principle established in the Law of First Mention, we see there are a number of other authors who carry this theme forward:

1 Samuel 2:8
He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:
9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Looking at the various English translations of Psalm 104:5, it really doesn't look to me like any of them are describing a rotating ball spinning around at 1,000 mph, while whisking around in some kind of an orbit at 67,000 mph. Rather, we have a verbal depiction of something totally stationary, established on a firm foundation...

Psalm 104:5 ""Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever

Looking at the various English translations of Psalm 104:5, it really doesn't look to me like any of them are describing a rotating ball spinning around at 1,000 mph, while whisking around in some kind of an orbit at 67,000 mph. Rather, we have a verbal depiction of something totally stationary, established on a firm foundation

Here are two of the above verses taken from the Septuagint (the others are pretty much the same as the KJV):

1 Chronicles 16:30 Let the whole earth fear before him; let the earth be established, and not be moved.

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigns; he has clothed himself with honour: the Lord has clothed and girded himself with strength; for he has established the world, which shall not be moved.

Some try and say, that just means the earth is made the way God wants it and it’s placed where he wants it, not to be moved. OK. That may be one way to read these verses (which requires a globalist preconceived notion). But what if we just accept what it says, literally at face value? Especially considering Psalm 104:5 which clearly says the earth has "foundations" that won't be moved. How does that look on a floating, rotating globe? Where do you put the "foundations" in that scenario? With the KJV renderings of these verses, some may say there is a difference between "earth" and "world," as in the word "world" means people or nations. OK. Fine. Let's go with that. So then what are these verses saying? All of the people are going to be frozen solid so that they "shall not be moved" or what? Seems to me, it's just saying that this thing we are standing on has been established on something and it's not going to be moved. Again, tossing out all preconceived ideas of a spinning globe, just reading the text by itself, no one would ever think anything different from what it says.

Plus, we use the word "world" as a synonym for "earth" all the time. As an example, I could say, "As a former missionary, for 6 years, I traveled the world, spreading the Gospel to people in over a dozen countries." If I said that, you would clearly understand that I was flying around the world - as in the earth - on my mission trips.

What about seeming contradictions such as:

Job 9:6 who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

Psalms 104:5 Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken.

Isaiah 24:18 He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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Those are just a few examples of this nature. There are others, which clearly show the earth being knocked around in various ways. I think there is a difference between YHWH being able to shake, rattle and roll the earth at His pleasure or in His anger and the earth being removed altogether from its pillared foundation, so personally, I see no contradiction here. It appears to me that YHWH has set this place up to be permanent, and though He may knock it around from time to time, its still not going to leave its firmly established foundation. Yes, earthquakes and catastrophe are permissible, but utter destruction will never come. Take the Flood of Noah for instance. Clearly, the world was rocked:

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Something got shaken up quite a bit, yet, we're still here. The earth still stands, unmoved, on a sure foundation. Indeed, without a doubt, Scripture is telling us the earth is not constantly moving. In fact, there is growing evidence within the scientific community revealing that the earth is not rotating either. It is quite stationary in every respect. For further evidence of this in both history and science, please take the time to watch this video:




Let's forget the globe vs flat/enclosed earth debate for the moment. Start breaking down the various arguments. Some may argue that the geocentric vs heliocentric models are apart from the globe vs flat/enclosed models - as in they are separate, unrelated arguments. I'm actually thinking they are much more connected than many may think. Because if we end up proving the Scriptures mean what they say concerning the earth not moving, then why not accept what it says concerning its circular shape and nature "under the dome" too? Scripture is clearly telling us the world/earth is circular and enclosed and not spherical and floating in an open system of planets and stars outside of the firmament.

Amos 9:6 is also rather interesting, but its meaning gets completely lost in the KJV:

Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

This use of the word "troop" here gives us the idea of "boots on the ground." But that doesn't appear to be what is being said there. Consider some of the other renderings of this verse:

The NASB uses the words "vaulted dome" there. The Hebrew word in question is "aguddah," which according to Brown-Driver-Briggs means:



So, here again, we have the sense of a vaulted dome setting on the earth. This dome of Heaven is also described as circular:

Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.

Job 22:14 (LXX) A cloud is his hiding-place, and he shall not be seen; and he passes through the circle of heaven.

This makes me think of those long-term exposure pictures we have all seen of the night sky:



For more stunning pics like these, see:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2031704/Australian-photographer-Lincoln-Harrison
-endures-15-hour-photo-shoots-capture-stunning-night-images-star-trails.HTML


According to the Scriptures we've looked at so far, we have the Earth under the stretched out "curtain of heaven," on a foundation that won't be moved, set about with a boundary. This is painting an interesting picture, but again, it's definitely not looking like a globe to me. And it also doesn't look like the Earth is spinning either. Rather, we see the Scriptures painting a picture of a stationary, circular Earth under the circle of heaven. Could the above pics represent the "circle of heaven" in a literal sense? What if the pole star is the actual base of the "circle of heaven" upon which YHWH's throne sits?

Then we have the whole issue of the so-called "corners" and "ends" of the Earth…

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 43:6 I'll say to the north, 'Give them up'! And to the south, 'Don't keep them back!' Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.

Many Christian apologists want to convince us this is talking about the four cardinal points as we saw in the GotQuestion.org analysis earlier. But if we accept that the authors of Scripture were directly inspired by the Holy Spirit of the Creator Himself, don't you think they would have used better terms to describe a spinning globe orbiting the sun if that were indeed the case? Because I must say, if the Bible really is written in 5th Grade reading level English as so many have tried to teach me that it is my whole life, then, a simple reading of the Scriptures absolutely does not paint a picture of a globe! No kid - unhindered by the interpretation and indoctrination of a "scientist," an "astronaut," "scholar" or "theologian" - would ever get a spinning globe out of any of the above. Rather, again, Scripture appears to be describing something that may look a lot more like this:

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And then what are we supposed to do with these Scriptures...

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Those three Scriptures alone argue more in favor of a stationary, fixed earth with a moving sun and moon inside the earth's firmament than for the typical model we - including me - hold to concerning our globe going around the sun. Even more so when you consider the small sun and moon (which are described as being the same size in the Flat/Enclosed Earth model) are described as parking over specific cities:

Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

Ultimately, the question of the Bible's validity is raised when looking at the mechanics of the Joshua, Habakkuk and Isaiah stories from the "scientific" perspective. Because the only way the sun and moon could stand still and/or move BACKWARD across the sky in our standard model would be for the earth to stop or suddenly begin to rotate the other way, correct itself and then start back up again in order to get everything back to normal.

Using the scene from the first Superman movie as an example, the question of what would happen if the earth stopped rotating is addressed by the "How Stuff Works" website:http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/what-if/what-if-earth-stopped-spinning.htm

"Earth's magnetic field might go away, too. While we're not entirely sure how that magnetic field is generated, one leading theory states that it's the result of Earth's inner core rotating slightly faster than outer core (yep, two different rotations on one planet). If both of them stop, the mechanism behind Earth's magnetic field may as well, leaving us exposed to potential harmful solar winds "

Or how about this one from NASA:http://image.gsfc.NASA.gov/poetry/ask/q1168.HTML

"If the Earth stopped spinning suddenly, the atmosphere would still be in motion with the Earth's original 1100 mile per hour rotation speed at the equator. All of the land masses would be scoured clean of anything not attached to bedrock. This means rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings, your pet dog, and so on, would be swept away into the atmosphere."

Now watch these videos, as told by those who believe the current, dominant view of our cosmology:

So, if we are to claim we believe the Bible is true and we can take it literally, we have a big problem concerning the stories that describe the sun and moon standing still, and even going backward. I think these are questions worthy of answering from a Biblical world view. And I'm sorry, but typical "apologetics" responses such as the ones given here, don't really cut it for me: http://creation.mobi/joshuas-long-day Surely, we can do better than that! Of course, saying, "Well, God can do anything. He created the Universe, so surely He could suspend all of the laws of nature and physics to accommodate these miracles" is a nice Kindergarten answer. But such an answer will never satisfy a skeptic with an analytical, scientific mind. They will instead write our Bible off as a book of fantasy. Science triumphs over fantasy. Why believe a book that is so demonstrably false? See the problems we run into?

In an enclosed, flat, stationary model however, those problems are easily solved. The same with Scriptures like these:

Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Matthew 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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I can hear the arguments already. Daniel is having a dream. In the temptation of Christ, Satan could have shown Jesus a "movie" of sorts, or maybe it was just all of the "local kingdoms" viewable from that particular mountain. In Revelation, maybe Jesus has booked a round-the-world tour before touching down (despite the fact that Scripture seems to be saying He's booked a direct flight, down from the clouds to the Mount of Olives). OK. But what if... We just believe what everyone else has been telling us in the Scriptures? If the world is flat, each of the above examples are totally doable. We don't have to make up excuses. We just have to believe it.



There are a LOT more Scriptures we could look at too. In fact, the more you search the Bible for your answers, you'll keep running into descriptions of the earth stating:

1) It is fixed and not moving (spinning, orbiting, etc.)

2) It is circular and has edges/corners/pillars/foundations, etc.

3) The #4 comes up a lot in reference to 4 corners, 4 winds, etc. - the 4 corners indicating a circle carved into a square

4) It is hedged about with a boundary that connects with Heaven

5) There is a metallic canopy of sorts stretched out like a "tent" over it

Whether or not we want to accept this will depend on our willingness to admit the level of cognitive dissonance we still want to maintain. Things get even worse if we accept the Book of Enoch as having any measure of credibility, because as far as I'm concerned, that book knocks a home run out of the park for the Flat Earthers.



ENOCH AND THE STILL FLAT EARTH
When it comes to the Book of Enoch, I know many want to dispute whether or not we should consider it canon, or even a valid source for deriving, confirming and/or elaborating on the canonized Biblical truths. Many commentaries have been written giving the various perceived pros can cons of doing so. For me, I have no need to consider it "Scripture." However, I do value it primarily because the authors of Scripture certainly did, even to the point of directly quoting from it, while under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Concerning the seeming ambiguities of canonized Scripture as it pertains to the issues being addressed here in this essay, I like the way Robert Schadewald handles the Book of Enoch in his online article:

Ambiguities in ancient documents can often be elucidated by consulting contemporary documents. The most important ancient document describing Hebrew cosmology is 1 Enoch (sometimes called the Ethiopic Book of Enoch), one of those long, disjointed, scissors and paste jobs beloved by ancient scribes. For a dozen or so centuries, European scholars knew 1 Enoch only from numerous passages preserved in the patristic literature. In 1773, the Scottish adventurer James Bruce found complete copies in Ethiopia.

Numerous manuscripts of 1 Enoch have since been found in Ethiopian monasteries. Turn of the century scholars concluded that parts of the book are pre-Maccabean, and most (perhaps all) of it was composed by 100 B.C. [Charles, 1913]. These conclusions were largely vindicated when numerous fragments of 1 Enoch were found among the so-called Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran.

* * *

First Enoch is important for another reason. Unlike the canonical books of the Bible, which (in my view) were never meant to teach science, sections of 1 Enoch were intended to describe the natural world. The narrator sometimes sounds like a 2nd century B.C. Carl Sagan explaining the heavens and earth to the admiring masses. The Enochian cosmology is precisely the flat-earth cosmology previously derived from the canonical books.

Excepts sourced from: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

Whether or not we consider the Book of Enoch to be Scripture is irrelevant. If you at least accept it as having any measure of credibility as a contemporary Biblical commentary, you'll see this concept of a flat/enclosed earth is described in even more detail by its writer(s), thus revealing how the ancient Hebrews viewed the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars when thy both wrote and read the canonized texts. For Enoch to have been so well preserved in multiple copies in the Dead Sea Scrolls and for authors such as Jude and later "Church Fathers" to quote directly from it, this shows us the book was held in high regard, at least well into the first few centuries AD. I contend it is still worthy of taking notice of in our day as well. Especially, when you consider the opening words of the book:

1 Enoch 1:1. The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2. And he took up his parable and said--Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

I believe we are that remote, future generation, that was to come and live "in the day of tribulation." As many of you know, I published a book called, Genesis and the Synchronized, Biblically-Endorsed, Extra-Biblical Texts a couple of years ago, which includes the book of 1 Enoch. In the Introduction to that volume, I wrote that I was putting together a stand-alone version of the Book of Enoch with footnotes and commentary. As I began working on that, I found that when you get to about chapter 17 or so, you start finding some very interesting descriptions of heaven and earth, which sound a lot like the Flat/Enclosed Earth model. We will now explore just a handful of them here.

Enoch's view on the nature of the earth:


1 Enoch 18:1. I saw the treasuries of all the winds: I saw how He had furnished with them the whole creation and the firm foundations of the earth. 2. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four winds which bear [ the earth and ] the firmament of the heaven. 3. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars of the heaven . 4. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and all the stars to their setting. 5. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above. And I proceeded and saw a place which burns day and night, where there are seven mountains of magnificent stones, three towards the east, and three towards the south. 7. And as for those towards the east, 〈 one 〉 was of coloured stone, and one of pearl, and one of jacinth, and those towards the south of red stone. 8. But the middle one reached to heaven like the throne of God, of alabaster, and the summit of the throne was of sapphire. 9. And I saw a flaming fire. And beyond these mountains 10. is a region the end of the great earth: there the heavens were completed. 11. And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards the height and towards the depth. 12. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no birds, but it was a waste and horrible place.


Is Job 26:7 (concerning the earth hanging on "nothing") just a confirmation of what Enoch is saying here? Enoch described a place where there was nothing. Job describes the same:

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Enoch clearly describes the earth on a foundation (like so many other authors as seen above). But he also describes a place beyond the ends of the earth. A place of horrible nothingness. Whatever your view may be, it is clear, either one of these authors has borrowed from the other or they both were inspired by the same Source. Enoch again describes this place...

1 Enoch 21: 1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible.


1 Enoch 23:1. From thence I went to another place to the west of the ends of the earth.


1 Enoch 33:1. And from thence I went to the ends of the earth and saw there great beasts, and each differed from the other; and (I saw) birds also differing in appearance and beauty and voice, the one differing from the other. 2. And to the east of those beasts I saw the ends of the earth whereon the heaven rests, and the portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth, and I counted the portals out of which they proceed, and wrote down all their outlets, of each individual star by itself, according to their number and their names, their courses and their positions, and their times and their months, as Uriel the holy angel who was with me showed me. 4. He showed all things to me and wrote them down for me: also their names he wrote for me, and their laws and their companies.

Enoch's view on the nature of the sun, moon and stars:

1 Enoch 72:
1. The book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven, the relations of each, according to their classes, their dominion and their seasons, according to their names and places of origin, and according to their months, which Uriel, the holy angel, who was with me, who is their guide, showed me; and he showed me all their laws exactly as they are, and how it is with regard to all the years of the world and unto eternity, till the new creation is accomplished which dureth till eternity. 2. And this is the first law of the luminaries: the luminary the Sun has its rising in the eastern portals of the heaven, and its setting in the western portals of the heaven. 3. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. 4. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. 5. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. 'that') portal and shines in the face of the heaven. 6. In this way he rises in the first month in the great portal, which is the fourth those six portals in the cast. 7. And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in their season. 8. When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal thirty mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven. 9. And during this period the day becomes daily longer and the night nightly shorter to the thirtieth morning. 10. On that day the day is longer than the night by a ninth part, and the day amounts exactly to ten parts and the night to eight parts. 11. And the sun rises from that fourth portal, and sets in the fourth and returns to the fifth portal of the east thirty mornings, and rises from it and sets in the fifth portal. 12. And then the day becomes longer by two parts and amounts to eleven parts, and the night becomes shorter and amounts to seven parts. 13. And it returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises and sets in the sixth portal one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign. 14. On that day the day becomes longer than the night, and the day becomes double the night, and the day becomes twelve parts, and the night is shortened and becomes six parts. 15. And the sun mounts up to make the day shorter and the night longer, and the sun returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises from it and sets thirty mornings. 16. And when thirty mornings are accomplished, the day decreases by exactly one part, and becomes eleven parts, and the night seven. 17. And the sun goes forth from that sixth portal in the west, and goes to the east and rises in the fifth portal for thirty mornings, and sets in the west again in the fifth western portal. 18. On that day the day decreases by two parts, and amounts to ten parts and the night to eight parts. 19. And the sun goes forth from that fifth portal and sets in the fifth portal of the west, and rises in the fourth portal for one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign, and sets in the west. 20. On that day the day is equalized with the night, [and becomes of equal length], and the night amounts to nine parts and the day to nine parts. 21. And the sun rises from that portal and sets in the west, and returns to the east and rises thirty mornings in the third portal and sets in the west in the third portal. 22. And on that day the night becomes longer than the day, and night becomes longer than night, and day shorter than day till the thirtieth morning, and the night amounts exactly to ten parts and the day to eight parts. 23. And the sun rises from that third portal and sets in the third portal in the west and returns to the east, and for thirty mornings rises in the second portal in the east, and in like manner sets in the second portal in the west of the heaven. 24. And on that day the night amounts to eleven parts and the day to seven parts. 25. And the sun rises on that day from that second portal and sets in the west in the second portal, and returns to the east into the first portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the first portal in the west of the heaven. 26. And on that day the night becomes longer and amounts to the double of the day: and the night amounts exactly to twelve parts and the day to six. 27. And the sun has (therewith) traversed the divisions of his orbit and turns again on those divisions of his orbit, and enters that portal thirty mornings and sets also in the west opposite to it. 28. And on that night has the night decreased in length by a †ninth† part, and the night has become eleven parts and the day seven parts. 29. And the sun has returned and entered into the second portal in the east, and returns on those his divisions of his orbit for thirty mornings, rising and setting. 30. And on that day the night decreases in length, and the night amounts to ten parts and the day to eight. 31. And on that day the sun rises from that portal, and sets in the west, and returns to the east, and rises in the third portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the west of the heaven. 32. On that day the night decreases and amounts to nine parts, and the day to nine parts, and the night is equal to the day and the year is exactly as to its days three hundred and sixty-four. 33. And the length of the day and of the night, and the shortness of the day and of the night arise--through the course of the sun these distinctions are made (lit. 'they are separated'). 34. So it comes that its course becomes daily longer, and its course nightly shorter. 35. And this is the law and the course of the sun, and his return as often as he returns sixty times and rises, i.e. the great luminary which is named the sun, for ever and ever. 36. And that which (thus) rises is the great luminary, and is so named according to its appearance, according as the Lord commanded. 37. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal.

Whether or not David ever read the Book of Enoch, he certainly seemed to have had a very similar view of the sun as a male, coming out of a chamber (or portal):

Psalms 19:
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Here is Enoch's take on the moon...

1 Enoch 73: 1. And after this law I saw another law dealing with the smaller luminary, which is named the Moon. 2. And her circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and her chariot in which she rides is driven by the wind, and light is given to her in (definite) measure. 3. And her rising and setting change every month: and her days are like the days of the sun, and when her light is uniform (i.e. full) it amounts to the seventh part of the light of the sun. 4. And thus she rises. And her first phase in the east comes forth on the thirtieth morning: and on that day she becomes visible, and constitutes for you the first phase of the moon on the thirtieth day together with the sun in the portal where the sun rises. 5. And the one half of her goes forth by a seventh part, and her whole circumference is empty, without light, with the exception of one-seventh part of it, (and) the fourteenth part of her light. 6. And when she receives one-seventh part of the half of her light, her light amounts to one-seventh part and the half thereof. 7. And she sets with the sun, and when the sun rises the moon rises with him and receives the half of one part of light, and in that night in the beginning of her morning [in the commencement of the lunar day] the moon sets with the sun, and is invisible that night with the fourteen parts and the half of one of them. 8. And she rises on that day with exactly a seventh part, and comes forth and recedes from the rising of the sun, and in her remaining days she becomes bright in the (remaining) thirteen parts.

Enoch goes into a great amount of detail in chapters 72 - 82 concerning the heavenly luminaries. I just posted the beginning chapters above. You can read the rest for yourself, beginning in chapter 74, here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe077.htm. In chapter 78, we read a bit more about the names, size, and movements of the sun and moon...

1 Enoch 78:1. And the names of the sun are the following: the first Orjârês, and the second Tômâs. 2. And the moon has four names: the first name is Asônjâ, the second Eblâ, the third Benâsê, and the fourth Erâe. 3. These are the two great luminaries: their circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and the size of the circumference of both is alike. 4. In the circumference of the sun there are seven portions of light which are added to it more than to the moon, and in definite measures it is s transferred till the seventh portion of the sun is exhausted. 5. And they set and enter the portals of the west, and make their revolution by the north, and come forth through the eastern portals on the face of the heaven. 6. And when the moon rises one-fourteenth part appears in the heaven: the light becomes full in her: on the fourteenth day she accomplishes her light. 7. And fifteen parts of light are transferred to her till the fifteenth day (when) her light is accomplished, according to the sign of the year, and she becomes fifteen parts, and the moon grows by (the addition of) fourteenth parts. 8. And in her waning (the moon) decreases on the first day to fourteen parts of her light, on the second to thirteen parts of light, on the third to twelve, on the fourth to eleven, on the fifth to ten, on the sixth to nine, on the seventh to eight, on the eighth to seven, on the ninth to six, on the tenth to five, on the eleventh to four, on the twelfth to three, on the thirteenth to two, on the fourteenth to the half of a seventh, and all her remaining light disappears wholly on the fifteenth. 9. And in certain months the month has twenty-nine days and once twenty-eight. 10. And Uriel showed me another law: when light is transferred to the moon, and on which side it is transferred to her by the sun. 11. During all the period during which the moon is growing in her light, she is transferring it to herself when opposite to the sun during fourteen days [her light is accomplished in the heaven], and when she is illumined throughout, her light is accomplished full in the heaven. 12. And on the first day she is called the new moon, for on that day the light rises upon her. 13. She becomes full moon exactly on the day when the sun sets in the west, and from the east she rises at night, and the moon shines the whole night through till the sun rises over against her and the moon is seen over against the sun. 14. On the side whence the light of the moon comes forth, there again she wanes till all the light vanishes and all the days of the month are at an end, and her circumference is empty, void of light. 15. And three months she makes of thirty days, and at her time she makes three months of twenty-nine days each, in which she accomplishes her waning in the first period of time, and in the first portal for one hundred and seventy-seven days. 16. And in the time of her going out she appears for three months (of) thirty days each, and for three months she appears (of) twenty-nine each. 17. At night she appears like a man for twenty days each time, and by day she appears like the heaven, and there is nothing else in her save her light.

If Enoch is to be believed, then the sun is not massively huge and tens of millions of miles away and the moon is not as big as we have been told it is either, and is much closer than the hundreds of thousands of miles we have been taught it is away from us.

The stars, according to Enoch have set courses and portals in the dome through which they are to come and go as well.

1 Enoch 18:12. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. 13. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, and to me, when I inquired regarding them, 14. The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. 16. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'

This does not paint a picture of stars as "suns" burning out in space, but rather of intelligent beings that have been commanded what to do. Those that have disobeyed are punished. According to 1 Enoch 20, the angel Raguel is the one who acts as sort of a policeman of the stars:

1 Enoch 20:4. Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries.

The "lake of fire" that has been "prepared for the devil and his angels" that we read about in the canonized texts of the New Testament, may have been understood in the light of 1 Enoch 21:

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: 'How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' 10. And he said unto me: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'

In the Book of Enoch we see that the stars are to follow specific courses and not deviate from them. If they do, they are punished for violating YHWH's commandment concernig their "circuit" in the heavens. Indeed, the stars, like the sun and moon, also have portals through which they are to come and go. Whether or not Job ever read the Book of Enoch, he certainly seemed to have had a similar view:

Job 9:
1 Then Job answered and said,
2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
4 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
5 Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Something else of interest:

Is the flat/enclosed earth hollow? Yes. Enoch goes into great detail concerning the underworld here:

1 Enoch 22:1. And thence I went to another place, and he showed me in the west another great and high mountain [and] of hard rock. 2 And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at.

3. Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period till the period appointed, till the great judgement (comes) upon them.'

5. I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead, and their voice went forth to heaven and made suit. 6. Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit--whose is it whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit?'

7. And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.'8. Then I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why as one separated from the other?'

9. And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been made 〈for〉 the spirits of the righteous, in which there as the bright spring of water. 10.And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime. 11. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who †curse† for ever, and retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever. 12. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners. 13. Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors. they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence. 14. Then I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'

Did this tale in Enoch set the stage for Yeshua's parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man? Could be. Yeshua's parable certainly would appear to validate this story. Regardless, this shows there is still room for a "hollow earth" in the Flat Earther's enclosed model. The ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Hebrews and Greeks all had a view of the Underworld being below our feet. They also had a flat earth worldview.

Enoch has a lot more to say concerning the nature of the heavens, earth, sun, moon and stars, but this should suffice for now. Whether or not you accept Enoch as having any merit is irrelevant. At this point, you should be able to tell that just sticking with the Bible alone, the Flat Earthers have a very strong case against our belief in the globe. The Bible goes on and on with similar descriptions as stated above in Enoch. This ancient apocryphal book merely appears to confirm and elaborate on these themes as a contemporary ancient commentary.

CONCLUSIONS

We can't just ignore all of this and say it's just "figures of speech." Some may say this sort of thing is "divisive" but what are you going to do when someone asks you about it? Just tote the company line fed to us by Luciferian, occult organizations like NASA, which was founded by Nazis and Freemasons? Or will you be able to provide a "ready defense" from the Scriptures for why you believe what you believe?

Why is this subject important?

Of course, all that I have written here begs the question of why? Why would someone want to trick us? If we really are on an enclosed, stationary, flat-ish, circular shaped earth, why fool everyone into thinking we are on a spinning globe, freely floating in the vastness of space? What is the purpose? Isn't all of this just a big waste of time?

I do not see this as a waste of time. I actually (now) see this as a critically important topic to be RE-searching and studying. Consider this: The Bible clearly shows a flat-ish, enclosed, stationary earth model, wherein all of the "luminaries" are under a dome, with the earth being the primary focus of everything in the cosmos. Science calls this "primary focus" idea the Anthropic Principle. We are center stage in this scenario and everything appears to be specifically designed for our benefit. The slightest deviation in nearly anything in the cosmos would make life as we know it impossible.

Whereas, brushing the Anthropic Principle off as mere coincidence and chance, the result of beneficial mutation and natural selection giving us this "illusion," in the Godless Big Bang thesis that NASA and monkey man scientists want us to believe in, we are taught that we're just a mutant on a spec of dust in a small solar system orbiting a less than impressive star in an arm of an average, though still massively huge galaxy, floating in a vast space of countless others. In short, we are insignificant, though fortunate mutations of random chance.

Of course, on the flip-side of that argument, the Creationist may contend that the vast diversity of this massive Universe makes us even more significant as they quote the Psalmist:

Psalm 8:
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him?

The idea that YHWH would take notice of this tiny spec in such a vast Creation makes us all the more important. I get that. I've argued the same myself. However, the vastness of that model can certainly imply that YHWH may have His eye on countless other "earths" out there too. If so, are we really that "special" or just different? A parent who has many kids loves them all, each perhaps in different ways, for different reasons, but loves them just the same. Yet, if we are all there is (in the realms outside of the spiritual realm of God Himself and those with Him in that place), then we truly are the "apple of His eye" as a unique and singular, special Creation in the physical realm. We are an "only child" in that sense.

Now imagine why Lucifer would want us to not know this. Imagine why he might want to trick us into thinking there are "others" out there. Imagine why he might want us to believe in the idea of Panspermia (to the point of pushing the notion that Ancient Aliens are the ones who seeded our world with the ingredients for Darwinian-style life to evolve). Imagine how easy his job would then be to get us to take our eyes off of our Creator and place them on alternatives. Further, what if he can get us to doubt our Bible. If the Bible can be demonstrated to be untrue and thus unworthy of our trust in it, imagine how easy he could deceive us, built upon 500+ years worth of deceptive indoctrination. If he is "the father of lies," then this would be his masterpiece! But the problem with telling a lie is you have to invent more lies to cover the lies you've told. In order to do that in this scenario, you'd need to have lots and lots of money so that you could keep producing more and more material to support the lie. Well, what do you know? We just so happen to have TRILLIONS of unaccounted for money out there being used for something. This makes as much sense as anything else - if not more so. Unlimited money can provide unlimited "evidence" to support an ever expanding lie, designed to take our eyes off of the one true Creator and place them on any number of alternatives.

Some have wondered and asked me on Facebook why YHWH would then make us think we are on a globe. I would argue, He didn't! He is telling us over and over again that we are not on a globe, but rather that we are on an enclosed, flat-ish plain, under a dome, upon which He is sitting, lovingly looking down on us. He's not the one deceiving us in this scenario. Lucifer and his monkey man scientists and other cronies are.

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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Lessons From The Truman Show:

On April 20th, while considering all of the above, I watched The Truman Show again. I then wrote the following as a Facebook Note on April 21st:

The True Man Show?
April 21, 2015 at 4:04pm
OK. So, as many of you are now (painfully) aware, I've been looking into this whole globe vs enclosed earth models issue. Among other things, it is giving the terms "globalism" and "globalist agenda" a whole new meaning. LOL!

Last night, I watched The Truman (read "true man") Show again. WOW! Did it take on a whole lot of new meaning for me. Let's just ASSUME for a minute that the enclosed model is true. If you can start with that premise, while this movie is totally written from Satan's point of view, it is quite eye-opening.



Why do I say that it is from Satan's point of view? Because Act 1 of the movie ends when a "light" falls from the sky labeled, "Sirius." Too much to go into on that, but it is a representation of Lucifer (light bearer) falling as Sirius, which is a star in Canis Major. The number "9" is depicted on the label of the light, which is also quite telling. But that's another story too. Suffice it to say, the film makers new EXACTLY what they were depicting with that scene. As a side note, it puts "SiriusXM Satellite Radio" into an interesting "light" too. ;) Anyway...



The people watching the show are the angels. The woman Truman never gets to be with is Satan. She is against the CHRISToff character, who is the "Creator of the dome" world Truman lives in. Now, watch the Christoff character. He clearly loves (though tests) Truman, watching every detail of his life from his mother's womb even. Thousands of cameras track his every move, thus Truman is in a confined though carefully cared for environment. People in Christoff's studio are even wearing shirts that say "LOVE HIM. PROTECT HIM." On the surface, it seems Christoff is being very mean to put Truman through the storm at the end of the movie, until you realize he never lets it go too far (not giving more than Truman can handle) and is only doing this to get Truman to "turn back" from a destiny that can only hurt him. But in the end, Truman chooses to step out of that loving and protected environment into what is literally depicted as "outer darkness" outside the dome. He steps out of the brightly lit realm into a door of total blackness, turning his back on his "creator."



As a side note, also of interest, is the scene where Truman is looking in the mirror. He draws an astronaut helmet around his head with soap. Then draws a flag and states "This is TRUEmania" referencing also the name Burbank. Implication? The moon landing was shot in Burbank. LOL! Nice touch.



Pay close attention to the significance of the numbers on his sailboat: "139" and how it is depicted during the storm. Then, read Psalm 139. The writers really did their homework on this one. It was a BRILLIANT scene in light of this Psalm.



Overall, it is great movie, but with a wrong conclusion concerning Truman choosing to leave the careful love and protection of CHRISToff (and Moses actually too) in favor of stepping into outer darkness. Of course in a real world scenario, it makes sense that we would want to see Truman set free from his captivity, but that's the real trick of the movie. It generates sympathy for the Devil and his perspective, while attempting to paint YHWH as the bad guy. YET, the "creator" is never really depicted that way in the movie. In fact, the film makers actually go out of their way to show just how much Christoff really does love and care for Truman.

Just read Psalm 139 again. I really do have to wonder what perspective the writers/film makers had. Because if they took enough time to look this up and make a point of including it on the sailboat that gave Truman his free will AND the warning to try and get him to turn back (repent), it may be that they pulled a fast one on the audience. I don't know. What has the appearance of a "good ending" leading us all to cheer for Truman, means the joke is on us if we missed the "signs" given all along the way. Consider...

Psalm 139:
1 O Lord, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on my tongue,But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.
5 You have hedged me behind and before,And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;It is high, I cannot attain it.
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,But the night shines as the day;The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

That last line is quite interesting too, because Truman goes missing at night. So, Christoff causes the sun to come up way early, thus causing the "night to shine as day" in that scene.

13 For You formed my inward parts;You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;Marvelous are Your works,And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,When I was made in secret,And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.And in Your book they all were written,The days fashioned for me,When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;When I awake, I am still with You.
19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;Try me, and know my anxieties;
24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,And lead me in the way everlasting.

The end of the movie shows Truman turning his back on the "way everlasting" choosing instead the darkness. So, the movie actually has a sad ending not a good one.

This is brilliant thought-provoking film making at its best in my opinion. BOTH sides of the story are fairly well presented, with the "true man" caught in the middle, but when you realize you are cheering for the wrong conclusion, it really gives you pause to think.

Lucifer is constantly trying to get us to see things his way and to draw our love and attention away from YHWH. The spinning globe may be his masterpiece deception, designed to get us to do just that.

Again, I am only bringing this stuff up, because as I've said, I am on a quest for truth. And I need the Bible to be my source for that truth. Right now, the Bible, Enoch and the literature of many ancient cultures, who were far more advanced than we are today, are all conflicting with my own beliefs. Therefore, I am going to continue to dig, in order to "test all things" as we all should. Sadly though, too many Christians really don't know their Bible. They don't care about truth. They'd rather continue on with the many "traditions of men" and ignore Scripture and crucify those who think otherwise. And those of you who insist on being the "thought police," attempting to control or stifle this discussion are only contributing to the many problems plaguing the Christian Church today. For one thing, you make it nearly impossible for anyone - in or out of the Church - to approach you with legitimate questions that deserve answers - and preferably answers from the Scriptures. That is not a good thing. I for one am glad this subject is on the table for discussion.

In conclusion, there is not a doubt in my mind that both the Bible and the Book of Enoch absolutely argue in favor of a still, flat, enclosed earth. OK. So, now I have a big problem. Because on the one hand, you have all heard me say that…

A) I believe the Bible is true
B) I believe the Bible is written in 5th Grade reading level English. It only takes a theologian (or some other know-it-all with expensive pieces of paper hanging on their “I love me walls” to make it say something other than what a child could discern from the plain text.
C) I am on a quest for truth and I don’t care where that leads me. I just want to know.


Yet, in spite of those 3 bullet points, I still believe the earth is round - even though the ancient record is nearly unanimous in its effort to tell me otherwise. So, at this point, I’m really left with more questions than answers, feeling like quite the hypocrite. Or better yet, maybe I am like Thomas. He wanted to believe the "words" but he needed to see the physical evidence. And you know what? I am OK with that. Because Yeshua met poor "doubting Thomas" where he was. To my own shame perhaps, I will take comfort in his story.

John 20:
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

There are a number of things currently keeping me from fully embracing what I so clearly see from the Scriptures and testimony of Enoch:

The Coriolis Effect
Lunar eclipses
Comets, meteors and impact craters on the moon and other stellar bodies
The Northern Lights
I still believe there are manmade satellites up there, providing us with GPS, weather reports, radio and television signals
Southern hemisphere travel from places like South Africa to Australia seem problematic in the circular, flat earth model
The inconclusiveness of claims concerning the curvature of the earth
I may never get the answers to these (and others that I have), but there is a simple test I know I can can perform, which will "seal the deal" for me, even if I can't resolve all of the others. Point #7 above is something I can test for myself. Therefore, sometime in the next few months, I intend to perform a test of the curvature of the earth. If we really are on a ball, whether it is spinning or not, the curvature has been determined by smarter men than me to be at about 8" per mile. Therefore, I intend to go out to a flat plain area of land or calm water, measure out a distance which should be far enough for an object placed on the ground at one end to be at least 40ft below the (alleged) curvature of the horizon and thus not visible from the other end. I will measure and document the whole thing, and then look through the eye-piece of a camera mounted with a powerful zoom lens. If I can see the object, then I will know the curvature is a myth. This seems to be a simple enough test that any of us can perform. I'll let the smarter folks deal with the other issues. As far as I'm concerned, if the results of testing point #7 reveal the earth to be flat, it will be like putting my fingers in the holes. Even though I doubted the written word, I am confident that my Lord and (patient, loving) Savior will still meet me where I am and bless me for even daring to go on this quest for truth in the first place - in spite of all the ridicule and mocking that continues as a result of simply wanting to take the Bible seriously and believe what it says.

Staying on the quest for truth,

- Rob Skiba

http://www.seedtheseries.com/blog/BibleEarth.html

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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Re: What is Round, Flat and has Pillars Below It?

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