Jude

1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


KJV

Mark 8:38 tells us when He Comes, He Comes With The Holy Angels


Because of the many translations among the churches, there is always a controversy about who accompanies the Lord at His return. Joe Ortiz, in his research on this subject used the Aramaic which says the same as is quoted in Mark 8:38.

"When He cometh in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."


How does one know the real answer? You must take it in context with the whole of the message being relayed. In this case, according to I Thess. 5:16-17, the order of the Resurrection of the Dead and the Rapture of the living is given, isn't it? And they both join the Lord in the Air.

So, who is in the air with the Lord when He returns? It can't be the Saints because they are just being raised from the Dead and changed from among the living.

Who are God's warriors? It is His Holy Angels who fight the 1/3 Fallen Ones and their off-spring that come to make war with their own Creator.

The Saints have had their time of war just in the living on this earth which has been given into the hands of the Evil One. Perhaps they are part of the great cloud of witnesses to the End Day Slaughter of the Unrighteous but they do not come down with the Lord Jesus Christ: they meet Him in the Air.


Add these two scripture together and you begin to see a complete picture of how it will be. Who is first, who is second and who meets whom up in the air. Wow! What a day that will be.

I Thess. 4:16-17 (NAS)
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

"When He cometh in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."


I'd like to bump up this lesson with quotes from Joe Ortiz.

Gerlinda


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The Christian's Main Responsibility
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Here is a quote from "Why Christians Will Suffer "Great Tribulation" by Joe Ortiz.

The main responsibility for Christians (new ones especially) is not to stand on the mountaintop and indiscriminately begin quoting scripture; but rather, to share a testimony of what God has individually performed in their lives.


That makes so much sense.

When Jesus gave His disciples the "Great Commission" in Acts 1:1-8, He didn't use the word preach, which is the word derived from the Greek word euangelizo, from where we get the word "evangelize". He said, You will be my witnesses" .

There are those that believe that the ecclesia will be Caught Out before Great Tribulation begins. They will tell you that those that will be left behind, known as the Tribulation Saints, will come to the saving knowledge (somehow) that they apparently missed prior to that "Catching Out of the Believers". Really now? How is it that they come to that saving knowledge? It is the same way that you and I came to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and surrendered our lives to Him.

Someone "witnessed' to us through their own testimony and told us that the only way to Salvation is through Jesus Christ. It is the task of sharing what God has performed in our lives as a testimony to His glorious works, power and saving grace.

Do you really believe that the Church will be taken away from their own great commission given to them while there are those left behind that still need Jesus Christ?

Why would God take out the very Witnesses that are needed during the days of Great Tribulation? He gave them a commission that needs to be finished to the End of the Earth. This is not merely witnessing to the Ends of the Earth. It is the completed course, the race, to the Time of the End.

Yes, I know what is said...there will be the 144,000 Jewish Witnesses. There is something greatly wrong with that statement.

First of all, if a Jew is witnessing for the Lord Jesus Christ, he is one of the ecclesia. Secondly, remember the lesson of who is the ecclesia? It is Spiritual Israel, made up of those of the Northern Kingdom and Gentiles that joined them in witnessing to the gospel of Jesus Christ (Yes, there will be others of the Southern Tribes included here).

The Apostle Paul was chief among those that took this gospel to those of the Lost Sheep and the Gentiles. From him and others to the Lost House of Israel/Gentiles, the Gospel has spread.

America is a Covenant Nation just as the United Kingdom. Within those Covenant Nations are the enemies of our souls....the servants of Satan...those of the Synagogue of Satan, that we hear more and more of in these days...the Illuminati...named after that "Illuminated One, the Fallen Angel. .

Therefore, those named as the 144,000 of the 12 tribes will include those that joined with Israel in the service of the Lord God.

There are those that claim these are the Church, which is correct only if this church/ecclesia includes those of the natural branch Israel. However, these people usually omit any semblance of an Israeli person. They have "hogged" the whole honor unto themselves. That is just as much of a mistake as it is to place the ecclesia/assembly/congregation/church into a separate dispensation that will, by some honor bestowed upon them, take them out before the Lord reveals Himself to those Jews (Judah/Benjamin/Levite)

Now, here is something ELSE that Joe Ortiz shared in his book, page 128

Quote:

The word witness in the Greek is martus or martur, where W.E. Vine states, "whence, Eng.,martyr, one who bears witness by his death, denotes one who can or does aver what has been seen or heard or knows; it is used (a) of God, Rom. 1:9, 2Corin. 1:23; Phil. 1:8, I Thess. 2:5, 10 (2nd part) (b) of Christ, Ev. 1:5, 3:14; (c) of those who witness for Christ by their death.....


I Thess. 4:16,17 states many Called Out Ones will still be alive when Jesus returns. The dead in Christ will be raised first and those who are alive and waiting for the Lord's return will be "caught" together with them to greet and have a meeting with the lord in the air as, He makes His descent to planet earth. Until that time, the Lord exhorts us to reach out to the entire world and lead the lost to His Kingdom.

This book by Joe Ortiz, "Why Christians Will Suffer 'Great Tribulation'" and "The End Times Passover" have given me more understanding of what is really the truth of the scriptures than all the years I've heard the pre-trib., mid-trib. Rapture Theories. Although they were comforting, they were not accurate.

Why not let the Word of God speak it's own truth instead of trying to make it fit some Rapture teaching that is not even consistent with the grand theme of God's Mercy upon both Israel and Gentiles who have sought Him and are saved unto Eternal Life. That does not mean you are saved from Martyrdom.

This is a sure thing; if you managed to live through some of Great Tribulation coming upon Planet Earth, you may either die of one of the many catastrophes coming, pestilences or martyrdom. Very, very few, out of the huge population of earth, will witness the Trumpet blast calling them up to meet the Dead in Christ and the Lord in the air. Many are called but few are Chosen.

Multitudes didn't shirk from their commission to profess Jesus Christ and gave their very lives. Shouldn't we, who have been called to be witnesses for the Lord, face whatever it is that we have been called to do, in the same manner instead of looking for some "Escape" that isn't even consistent with God's Word.

Yes, it will be the most horrendous time upon this earth ever but He will give us His Grace to bear our own cross just as Christ Jesus bore His.

Thank you Steven for recommending these two books to me. I am so thankful to have had my understanding made much more clear. No, it is not a pleasant thought but it is a truthful understanding.....According to His Will.

Gerlinda

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.


Re: The Christian's Main Responsibility

(reply by Steven)


The main responsibility for Christians (new ones especially) is not to stand on the mountaintop and indiscriminately begin quoting scripture; but rather, to share a testimony of what God has individually performed in their lives.

Like sharing how God has revealed HIMSELF through experiences in your life including but not limited to scripture, videos, articles and commentary that draws you closer to HIM from a personal standpoint and not to try to diminish that by ignoring the videos, commentaries or scriptures that are shared or posted on this site or elsewhere just because it does not speak to you like the book of Enoch or exposing false teachings 7 year pre trib , including exposing pagan holidays or even if you can't stand the voice of someone but they have truth or scripture to share can you let it administer to you?