For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


Frank Molver (21 Sep 2014)
"Pastor Bob re spurious KJ discussion"

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2014/frankm921-2.htm
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I don't think that was a very good letter, in spirit
You make some incorrect assertions about Joe
You pretty much avoided making a decent rebuttal

You have made your opinion known but you need to respect those here who disagree. Reminding us of your education does not seal the deal.

My King James 1611 bible has the Apocrypha
No big deal, lets not make it one
The very long introduction by the authors of the King James bible certainly have more humility then those who have made a cult out of it
And here it is

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/1611-King-James-Bible-Introduction.php

And then there is the issue of slander,
Belittling the other legitimate translations.

Most people here realize that there are many different ways to say something. And that is why we look to other translations on difficult verses.

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My response to Frank

Thank you Frank for speaking out in defense of Joval, whom knows his topic very well. Your words in regard to slander has been used constantly by Bob, which a man who claims to be a pastor absolutely should know is not to be done. Over and over, he has done this....to Joe Ortiz, an old man, of his own renown, who devoted 20 years in his own research, after being so thankful he had found Jesus Christ as his Savior. Even attacking the author and his wife, personally, when the Omega Shock letter was posted doesn't seem to be beneath Bob. Now, he has lowered himself even further by referring to us as "Fools..."

There is a reason I cannot call Bob "pastor". My own pastor, who happens to have been a personal friend to Bob and me, insisted that others, that were not in his care, should not call him "Pastor" and so I have always stayed away from titles. My pastor, now deceased, would never have stooped so low as to belittle people with slanderous remarks and names. He didn't demand respect....he earned it.

We may be in disagreement on some issues and that is not a new thing among believers, is it? After all, we each are individuals at different stages of our walk and guidance by the Holy Spirit. We should continue to learn from each other. But, according to the Word of God, Bob has over-stepped his boundaries.

Here is a portion of his post with the url of the complete article below it. I highlighted in red lettering that personal reference. Also, there is the Word of God in answer to Bob's habitual personal put-downs. He has lost all credibility that he believes is his to be had through his usage of "big words" and "education".

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I realize this has been a longer than normal amount of detail coverage showing the clear path from how the Septuagint period used the word "ekklesia" and how the New Testament defines the "mystery" of the Church. The Church was born on Pentecost in Acts 2, with the giving of the Holy Spirit. I thought this was perfectly obvious in my original posting, never thinking that I would have to do a word-study to refute the fools at the "Pre-Wrath-Rapture-Babble" site that mislead folks to believe their warped Replacement Theology.


http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2014/pastorbob921-1.htm

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Here is what the Bible says,

Matthew 5:22 King James Bible
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

5:21-26 The Jewish teachers had taught, that nothing except actual murder was forbidden by the sixth commandment. Thus they explained away its spiritual meaning. Christ showed the full meaning of this commandment; according to which we must be judged hereafter, and therefore ought to be ruled now. All rash anger is heart murder. By our brother, here, we are to understand any person, though ever so much below us, for we are all made of one blood. Raca, is a scornful word, and comes from pride: Thou fool, is a spiteful word, and comes from hatred. Malicious slanders and censures are poison that kills secretly and slowly . Christ told them that how light soever they made of these sins, they would certainly be called into judgment for them. We ought carefully to preserve Christian love and peace with all our brethren; and if at any time there is a quarrel, we should confess our fault, humble ourselves to our brother, making or offering satisfaction for wrong done in word or deed: and we should do this quickly; because, till this is done, we are unfit for communion with God in holy ordinances. And when we are preparing for any religious exercises, it is good for us to make that an occasion of serious reflection and self-examination. What is here said is very applicable to our being reconciled to God through Christ. While we are alive, we are in the way to his judgement-seat; after death, it will be too late. When we consider the importance of the case, and the uncertainty of life, how needful it is to seek peace with God, without delay!

Thank You,
gerlinda

What It Means to Wrest The Word of God

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


In the first five minutes of Pastor Hoggard's video, he uses the word "Wrest" when he is telling how people will wrest scriptures to make it fit their theology. Here is one definition of that word from:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wrest

A. To distort or twist the nature or meaning of: wrested the words out of context.

Mike Hoggard was reading the scriptures of II Thess. 2:1-4 where he shows what must take place first before the Rapture. The Word of God is so very, very clear about it. Please listen to it. Yet, there will always be men who want to change God's Word to fit their idea of what they want it to say and that includes whatever it takes to get their theology accepted.

He was referring to last week's message by Jimmy and Donnie Swaggart who apparently don't like the Greek Word and what it means and try to make it fit to their own pre-conceived notions about the Rapture.

The Illuminati always work to square a hole. It reminds me of the many false shepherds whom feed the sheep to the wolves because of their Pride. It's as if they, along with their cohorts are saying:

"Let's Wrest the Scripture if we don't like what it says. Then, let's take our "squared" scriptures and push them into the round holes and make it fit. But just in case someone notices that there are some gaps in our ' holy theology', we'll embellish some facts" OR "Hey, why bother, let's just make false accusations against our Brethren."

"Then, the people will believe us because we have had years and years of education and who is going to doubt us. And all we need to do to show that those at that other web-site are fools and don't know what they are talking about, we'll make accusations against them to put doubt into the minds of people who may be listening or reading their information."

Several times now, the Chief Manipulator and Slanderer who posts on Five Doves, has been reprimanded by men and women who know just how nasty his techniques have been. Two of these have been Jovial and also Frank Molver of Five Doves. I thank them. I believe God is using them as a warning to this very puffed up man....."Pride Goeth Before the Fall".

Lies are like Feathers that get shaken out in the Winds of Gossip; no matter if you spend the rest of your life trying to find where those feathers that you shook in an effort to undo the damage, they can never be retrieved. Slandering Words are such a serious matter and to even use the word "Fool" as was done today against this website, The Word of God tells us that one who calls another one a fool is in danger of Hell Fire.

Matthew 5:22 King James Bible

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



It becomes more evident as each day passes how the enemy has infiltrated into the Ecclesia so that the Body begins to attack itself, rather like Ecclesia Ebola.

The damage may not ever be completely undone but an apology will go a long way in making it right before God and your fellow man.

Gerlinda