For Fair Use, Discussion and Educational Purposes

Jude 1: 14, Even as Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied them: See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of Holy Ones to execute Judgement upon all..." . This is not speaking about the ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation of Believers) but is speaking of His Angels. This is the Day of Judgement and Wrath.

Just before the Lord's physical return with His Holy Ones to administer His Wrath, The Dead in Christ have risen first and then those that remain to MEET Him in the Air. This does not happen 7 years prior or even 3 1/2 years prior but just prior to the Wrath of God. Notice, they meet him in the air.. while those coming with the Lord come down with Him. Also, notice that the Lord Cometh with Ten Thousand of His Angels. These are His Warriors that will fight other Spiritual Warriors of the enemy. The resurrected ecclesia are not warriors nor are they the ones v.15 " to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all of the defiant words, ungodly sinners have spoken against him." NIV

We must remember that the judgement of the ungodly belongs to the Lord, not the ecclesia.

Now, if the ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation) can understand that the ecclesia is made up of both Gentile and Israel, then they can stop claiming there needs to be a separate Dispensation for the Gentile and the Israeli. After all, they are ONE GROUP.

It is the Jew of Judah/Benjamin (Levite priests) that need to come to the saving grace of their Messiah, not the Gentile & Israeli congregation of believers who are all of the ecclesia which includes the Old Testament saints that lived by faith.

There is just no reasoning behind the belief that a Rapture must happen so that the ecclesia dispensation can be finished and God can concentrate on the Jews. The ecclesia is here on earth up to the time of the Wrath of God. The Time of the Gentiles is not speaking about the ecclesia. It is speaking about the unbelieving nations that no longer have control over the city of Jerusalem.

Therefore, there is no need to cite these Holy Ones/Angels as being the church saints that return with Jesus Christ as a reason for a pre-tribulation Rapture.

All scripture that cite references to "holy ones' as accompanying the Lord at The Second Advent more accurately identify God's holy angels, not the Christian Church. This deduction makes more sense and harmonizes more so with other scripture, thereby eliminating the need of having to justify varying Tribulation theories that have no sound scriptural base whatsoever. Holy ones spoken of in I Thess. 3:13, Jude 14 and Zechariah 14:4 is not identifying the Christian Church but God's angels.

Jude quotes from a prophecy of Enoch; Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints.” KJV. Jude’s reference the Book of Enoch is not exact, which does seem to be contrary to the conclusion he quoted from the book of Enoch..

The concept of ten thousand saints is not unique. In Deut. 33:2 And he said: "The LORD came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints; from His right hand came a fiery law for them.”

The word for saints here is actually qodesh in Hebrew- meaning holy ones; hagiais muriasin, literally, "in or among holy myriads." The saints (holy ones) can mean angels or faithful human beings, or both.Jude 14 The word for ten thousand, is representation of a tremendous number- myriads, it has the meaning of the highest number at that time that one could calculate.

Creatures located in Heaven are described in Dan 7:10 as “A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.”

Rev 5:11 “Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands. ” The bible teaches that heaven has a vast population of both angels and people- saints. These are those (either one or both groups) who will come with him when he comes to earth to judge and set up his kingdom.

Jude was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21), we know that what he quoted from Enoch was true. This is confirmed by the fact that the same idea about the Lord returning with His holy ones to render judgment found elsewhere in the Bible, Zechariah 14:5, Isaiah 66:15, and Psalm 96:13, Deut. 33:2.

The bottom line is that using the word "Saints" here is not proof of those "Holy Ones" being a pre-tribulation group known as the Ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation/Church)

To emphasis this truth, let me once again remind the reader that adequate proof has been given by Joe Ortiz in his book, "The End Time Passover" that the believers of both OT and NT included Israel with the Gentiles grafted into Root, Jesus Christ.

The End Time Passover can be read on line on this site.

Gerlinda

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