Question for pastor Bob‏


6/12/14

To: John Tng


Hi,

My name is Michael. We have never spoke to each other but I feel we need to.

Do you believe the Bible is the TRUTH?

OK. Now that we have that behind us, I would like to ask a series of questions, all in order, and one at a time, to keep it simple.

Can you prove that ALL of Israel is "Jewish"? If so, name the scriptures. Use ONLY the Bible. Lets use the KJV.


The reason for this inquiry is because I believe that the TRUTH needs to be established for ALL those reading for proper discernment. This is the most critical of answers to what you have written about the 144,000 of Revelation, of which I disagree with.

Please feel free to enlighten me on how you come to the understanding that all of Israel are Jewish and explain WHO the lost 10 tribes are for further inflection.

Thank you,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for sharing this post on this site.

Five Doves is well known for censoring many posts from people who do not agree with their biblical position. ( FIVE DOVES is NOT consistent with the posts on their site ) In simple words they play favorites. I am not falsely witnessing about them I have many emails from people in the past who stopped posting on five doves because of their UNBALANCED favoritism. ( I have been VICTIM of their bias as well )

I have many submissions I tried to share on Five Doves but they would not post them they did not have a good reason why they did not post them. ( Incidentally some of my ignored submissions were posted by others days or even weeks later that has happened many , many times )


BACK TO THE QUESTION:
This is just to point people in the right direction to some links on this site that could help answer the question and much more!

Of course this will take some reading and prayerful consideration for those seeking the TRUTH.

Here is a link to a book that will go over your question in detail with many scriptural references.

http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3330765498&frmid=8549&msgid=924414&cmd=show

I also invite Gerlinda to share some of her comments and posts on this subject as well.


God Bless

Steven

Hi Michael,

This issue of who is Israel and who is the Jew seems to be the stumbling block that hinders understanding other important truths. So, let's begin at the "beginning".

1. God called out Abraham. He was not known as an Israelite. According to Jewish tradition, Abraham was born under the name Abram in the city of Ur in Babylonia in the year 1948 from Creation. Abram is referred to as a Hebrew (Ivri), possibly because he was descended from Eber or possibly because he came from the "other side" (eber) of the Euphrates River.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Abraham.html

Notice something here: When Abram was 100 and Sarai 90, G-d promised Abram a son by Sarai. G-d changed Abram's name to Abraham (father of many), and Sarai's to Sarah (from "my princess" to "princess"). Sarah bore Abraham a son, Isaac (in Hebrew, Yitzchak), a name derived from the word "laughter," expressing Abraham's joy at having a son in his old age. (Gen 17-18). Isaac was the ancestor of the Jewish people.

2. There was no Israel when God made a Covenant with Abraham. It was a Covenant of FAITH. This is the beginning of the people that were "Called Out". This is the ecclesia. It is that plain and simple. So, the first error made by most Theorist is to claim that the "ecclesia" (Church) began on the Day of Pentecost. IT DID NOT. The Holy Spirit was poured out upon an existing called out people. It empowered the existing ecclesia/church. Period!

3. Upon that error is another error taught and that the scripture that says, " All of Israel will be saved." is speaking of National Israel. John Hagee taught this, using that scripture.... Knowing very well.... That most people did not know the difference between the term Israel which includes both. I recall Dr. Seif who replaced Zola Levitt when he passed away, was very indignant with Hagee over that. He told him that; here they are working to help the Jews find Jesus Christ as their Messiah and you go and tell them, they are assured of being saved. You are robbing a whole lot of people of that Saving Grace.

There is a difference between Gentiles and Israelites known as the ecclesia that came to the saving grace of Jesus Christ through faith and the country Israel Come now! Can a whole nation be saved because they happen to call themselves Israelis? You will find multitudes of scriptures speaking about the Wild Olive Branch (gentiles) and the Natural Olive Branch (Israel) being grafted into the same root, Jesus Christ. That cannot be ignored. Why did the Bible speak about it if there is no lesson to be learned from defining the two branches (Israel and Gentile) being united in the Root, Jesus Christ?

4. Jesus Christ came unto the Lost House of Israel which had been dispersed (even before Messiah's first arrival). Those ten tribes include the Gentiles that joined their fellowship just like they did at the get-go...when they joined up with the 12 Tribes of Israel. It is this Northern Kingdom that spread the Gospel into all the world...not the Jews (the Southern two Tribes of Judah and Benjamin: including Levites), whom continue to practice the Mosaic Laws because they rejected their Messiah Jesus Christ who came to fulfill the Laws. Once this is grasped, then the scriptures that tell He will not return until they (the Jews) say, "Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord." will be that "light bulb" moment.

5. I do not fault anyone for not knowing this since I, myself, also believed that Israel were the Jews for most of my Christian walk, because that is what we had been taught. In fact, I recall almost fighting tooth and nail regarding this subject, believing that I had to defend the Nation of Israel. But, I do fault with anyone who has the ability to seek the truth to deliberately turn his face from seeing the true facts because it would destroy their other beliefs. What is that belief? That there is a separate dispensation for the ecclesia, (Congregation,Church, Assembly) thus they must be raptured out before Jesus Christ will return to the Jews. That is pure nonsense.

6. There is no separate Dispensation and the coming for the living will follow the Dead in Christ being raised first, thus we will join the Lord in the air. II Thess. 4:16-17

7. THEN AND ONLY THEN, WILL THE WRATH OF GOD BE POURED OUT UPON THE WICKED ONES.

Out of the 12 Tribes of Israel listed in Revelation will come the 144,000. Revelation 7.

I earnestly pray that someone reading this can come to terms with the distinction between Israel and Jews.

Gerlinda