Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

Hebrew 5778-5782   Gregorian 2018-2022

THIS SITE IS ABOUT JESUS

THIS SITE IS ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT

THIS SITE IS ABOUT THE WHOLE BIBLE

WELCOME BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO ARE WILLING TO STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED

 THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY  BIBLE VERSES SHOWING  7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)

 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."  I Corin. 15:52

The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

  9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS

KJV

        JESUS IS COMING SOON!

       We are followers of JESUS Only

 Seekers of the truth start here by praying

to the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. 

Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

 

THE BIBLE IS THE INERRANT WORD OF YHWH

THE BIBLE IS FREE OF ERROR IN ALL IT'S TEACHINGS AND INSPIRED BY THE WORD OF YHWH

JESUS IS GOD

JESUS is GOD/GOD Son:

JESUS is The WORD

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things
KJV

Ps 122:6

Psa. 122:6   Pray  shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters):  prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.


KJV

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THE BOOK OF ENOCH

NOW IS THE TIME!

 FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!

Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:

THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT

JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY

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Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's  return!

 

 

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The Difference Between Being Called And Being Chosen)


Hello all,

The following few paragraphs is my understanding of what this means:

Everyone is called.

But not everyone chooses to believe....water baptism, believing with the mind,telling the world, the outside conversion.

All those who have chosen are saved, but are not the elect of God, not "saints" of God, soughtyet. They need the baptism of fire to complete the process of entering the Kingdom.

Only those that have chosen, and are born again, can be faithful to the Lord. As Christ is the only faithful one, one must have Christ living inside them, and He must be Master of their lives by His Holy Spirit the fire baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The Lord knows the end from the beginning. He already knows every single person who has chosen Him down through all ages and from all time. Since He knows this, He knows His elect even before they are born. He loved them even before the foundation of the world.

When we say God chooses us, we are actually saying that God knows that we chose Him.

That is what the Spirit is showing me about this issue. Yet, I did find a study that I feel every Follower of Christ owes it to themselves to read. It presents and answers eight questions about what it means to be called, chosen and faithful. I am breaking it down into 8 separate posts,that can be read collectively or singularly. Here is the list of questions being answered.

The Difference Between Being Called And Being Chosen

Did Israel In The Old Testament Have Access To The Indwelling Of The Holy Spirit?

Why Did God Choose Israel?

What Makes One A True Christian?

Is The Process Of Being Chosen By God Selective?

What Does It Mean To Be Faithful?

Should You Try To Convert Others?

Enjoy!

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Link of article or video : http://www.rogerswebsite.com/articles/Called-Chosen-and-Faithful.htm

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING CALLED
AND BEING CHOSEN

As correctly pointed out by Mark in this paper being called and being chosen by God are two completely different things. We are PLAINLY TOLD TWICE that “many are called but few are chosen” (Matthew 20:16, 22:14).

The calling is the invitation which is offered to everyone within earshot (or eyeshot) of the gospel. It's imperative for us, as a church, to do all we can so as many people are within earshot of God's truth and that as many as possible can be persuaded and have the opportunity to be drawn to God.
I wholeheartedly believe everything that Mark has to say in the concluding remarks of his paper that I quote here:

“The invitation that God is giving to mankind is a wonderful opportunity and available for all who will soften their heart to respond. Remember that God “commands all men everywhere to repent”!

“If we have a wrong understanding that teaches that only certain people are being called, we can become self satisfied, slack and lazy in God's work. We can lose the passion. And make no mistake about it, the passion we feel inside must come not just from being filled with wonderful knowledge for ourselves – it must be a fire to do a work and make a difference!

“If we have a wrong understanding that it is ok just to broadcast a message and send out a warning then we are really missing the main tenant of the scriptures. The scriptures command us to go beyond just preaching the gospel – we have to make disciples of all nations. If the results are not there from our preaching, then we need to work harder – not congratulate ourselves for simply sending out the message.

“The role of a Christian is to help break the blindness upon people by teaching and spreading the Gospel. We are to convert them to God's way. To do so requires serious effort and persuasion - especially to an increasingly hard-hearted world turned against God. But it can be done. If Paul could convince some of the hard-hearted Pharisees to turn to God, then anything is possible.”

Now how we, as a church, go about persuading others to understand and act on the truth I'll touch on in the last section of this paper.

The calling is the invitation which is offered to everyone within earshot (or eyeshot) of the gospel. To be chosen by God is a separate act of God that He does as people respond to that calling or invitation (John 6:44).

My own personal view on this is that the calling is a general invitation to all people who hear the gospel, including our young people in the church, where God gives them a partial understanding of His truth. It's also an invitation to become a converted member.

It's then up to those who are called to respond to that calling at their own pace and if they respond enough then God chooses them and gives them a much fuller understanding of His truth.

Even today, many in the Church of God in their literature still get these two processes confused, blending them into one. The term called and calling are sometimes used for things which are true for being chosen by God but are NOT true for just the calling or general invitation.

************

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

Re: (The Difference Between Being Called And Being Chosen)

Hello all,

Here is the answer to the second question:

(same link as above)

DID ISRAEL IN THE OLD TESTAMENT HAVE ACCESS
TO THE INDWELLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Herbert Armstrong in his chapter on the Mystery of Israel in his book “Mystery of the Ages” said that Israel in Old Testament times was denied the Holy Spirit [and spiritual salvation as a result] and that they were only offered physical, material blessings.

He said that only a select few (such as some of their prophets, judges and kings) were given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit since the extra help of the Holy Spirit was needed for the jobs that God had in mind for them. What proof is there that Israel was denied access to the Holy Spirit with the exception of their prophets and certain others?

In Numbers 11 we read: “So the Lord said to Moses: 'Gather to Me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom you know to be the elders of the people and officers over them; bring them to the tabernacle of meeting, that they may stand there with you. Then I will come down and talk with you there. I will take of the Spirit that is upon you and will put the same upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, that you may not bear it yourself alone'…Then Moses said to him [Joshua], 'Are you zealous for my sake? Oh, that all the Lord's people were prophets and that the Lord would put His Spirit upon them!'” (Numbers 11:16-17, 29).

Moses wished that God would give His Holy Spirit to all of the people but it appears that he realized God had decreed that only a select few would be given the Holy Spirit to help them fulfill special jobs that God had in mind for them.

The apostle Peter when he spoke of the Old Testament prophets said that “the Spirit of Christ…was in them.” (1 Peter 1:10-11) David also mentioned that he had the Holy Spirit (Psalm 51:11).

Aside from this select few, there was also a faithful minority throughout Old Testament Israel's history who kept the letter (and much of the spirit) of God's law (Romans 11:2-5). Did these people have the Holy Spirit in them also?

God's spirit gives us spiritual understanding and helps us to keep His law (1 Corinthians 2:11, 2 Peter 1:4). Prior to a person receiving God's spirit and it being IN them the Holy Spirit can work WITH a person and help them to obey God.

Let's notice this distinction in John 14:17 where we read:

“The Spirit of truth, [which] the world cannot receive, because it neither sees [it] nor knows [it]; but you know [it], for [it] dwells WITH YOU [Present tense] and WILL BE [Future tense] IN YOU.”

The apostles had the Holy Spirit working with them but it wasn't in them until after Christ was resurrected.

After Jesus was resurrected we read in John 20:22: “He breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit.'”

During Christ's ministry the apostles had the Holy Spirit working WITH them but we are plainly told that it wasn't IN them until after Christ was resurrected EVEN THOUGH THE DISCIPLES WERE FAITHFULLY OBEYING GOD AS BEST AS THEY COULD!

Before they followed Jesus, Peter, Andrew, Philip and Nathanael all followed John the Baptist when he was preaching and baptizing towards the southern end of the Jordan River which was a long way from where some of them lived in Galilee (John 1:40-46). They were presumably baptized by John along with probably quite a number of the 120 disciples who received the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost after Christ ascended to heaven.

If the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was generally available to all the faithful minority of Israel in the Old Testament age then this delay of receiving the Holy Spirit makes no sense whatsoever.

While those disciples in Christ's time had to wait for the indwelling of the Spirit there were a few alive during Christ's ministry who were part of that select few that Herbert Armstrong mentioned. John the Baptist, his mother Elizabeth (Luke 1:41) and Simeon, who held Jesus when He was circumcised (Luke 2:25), all had the Holy Spirit. There were presumably others who died during Jesus' lifetime. They were given the Holy Spirit in order to fulfill an event we read of in Matthew 27:51-53 where many saints who had died were resurrected and went into Jerusalem as a witness to those who saw all the events associated with Jesus' death.

In Romans 8:9-11 we read: “But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His…But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”

Even though the Holy Spirit can work externally with people to better obey God as they respond, only the indwelling of the Holy Spirit makes us eligible for the first resurrection and a part of His true church.

If all the faithful minority of Old Testament Israel had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit there would be no need of a new covenant to replace the old covenant. The old covenant did not include the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and thus spiritual salvation.

We are told in Hebrews 8:6 that Jesus “is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on BETTER PROMISES.” The new covenant is established on better promises. If the old covenant included the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and thus spiritual salvation then in what way could the new covenant be based on better promises?

Christ said in "I WILL (future tense) build my church" (Matthew 16:18). If the faithful minority of Old Testament Israel had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit then Christ would have already built His church through the faithful minority of Old Testament Israel.

As best as I can tell from the scriptures, the faithful minority of Israel in the Old Testament age who did strive to faithfully obey God as best as they could had access to the Holy Spirit working with them but, except for a select few, they were denied, just for this age only, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They will have their chance to have the indwelling of the Hly Spirit in the next age. This is probably the case for many zealous people in mainstream christian churches also.

We see this also with our unbaptized young people in the church today. God calls all men to repent and He is seeking a personal relationship with all people who will seek after Him. Many of our young ones who aren't baptized yet, have repented, strive to wholeheartedly obey God, often do many terrific acts of service and they already do have a close personal relationship with Him. The Holy Spirit is working with them but they do not yet have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

In the book of Malachi God speaks of why He created marriage and His views on the problem of marriage and family breakdown in Israel. To Old Testament Israel the prophet Malachi wrote: “But did He not make them one, having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring” (Malachi 2:15).

Based on what we have just covered the remnant of the Spirit He gave them was access to the Holy Spirit to work with them to help them to better obey Him which He also offers our unbaptized children (1 Corinthians 7:14) though not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which would come at a future time.

God gave them that help of His Holy Spirit working with them because He seeks a godly offspring. He is reproducing Himself through mankind and He wants parents to raise children who will respond to Him and live a godly way of life. Even though the indwelling of Holy Spirit would be denied to them until another age He still wanted them to live a repentant life and have a personal relationship with Him.

The more godly character that they built in that age the easier it will be for them when their chance at spiritual salvation will come later in the future. The same could be said for so many of the wonderful dedicated people in mainstream Christianity who may not have fulfilled the conditions in God's eyes to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Any character and depth of relationship with God that they have in this age the better and easier it will be for them in the world to come when they have their chance at salvation.

###############

Question 3 ......continued tomorrow...