Having only just gotten into this book by Joe Ortiz, as it covers the Rapture Theories, I am left with the big question of what "Pastor" Bob would do with this should he read it. Course he won't because it would shoot down all his own theories. Nor, do I believe will most others that are comfortable with the pre-tribulation Rapture.

Oh, my, what a day it will be when these mis-led ones find out that they've spent most of their lives believing "Ring Around the Rosey Rapture Riddles".

Sure hope that some out of that bunch will care enough to do their own research. Here is a great place to start after having read their Bibles, first, of course. Mr. Ortiz refers to the Bible, pointing out that many words used by the pre-Tribbers to back their opinions mean exactly the opposite. Now, that would change everything, wouldn't it?

A very, very exciting book.

Gerlinda

Provers 16:22

22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Those that believe in Dispensations need to understand that the church DID NOT begin on the Day of Pentecost.

Joe Ortiz, in his book "The End Times Passover" gives the evidence that says:

You see, fellow believers, there was a Called Out eccelsia when God called out Abraham from the Land of Ur. Abraham did as God told him based on "FAITH".

So, it is a grave mistake to consider ourselves as the beginning of God's Calling out.

But, you will probably say, "We are saved by Grace and there was no Grace at the time of Abraham." Really now?

Who was it that spoke to Abraham and led the Children of Israel those 40 years in the Wilderness before God finally allowed them to enter The Promised Land?

Are you saying that Abraham, the prophets of old and those that followed in Faith are not saved? Heaven forbid that such a verdict be put upon them.

Do you think there has been a blinding in part upon the New Testament Church to make them think they are above the original Children of Faith Called Out by God?

"Many are called but Few are Chosen". [Matthew 22:14] Makes a whole lot more sense now, doesn't it?

If there is no Dispensation or separation from the original Israel, then why would God rapture the eccelsia out seven years before Jesus Christ returns????

Joe Ortiz does a wonderful job of letting God's Word speak for itself. Perhaps, it would be wise for the rest of us to do the same.

Gerlinda

Now, that the evidence has been given that "Called Out" (eccelsia) began right at the beginning of Abraham being called out of the Land of Ur, there is something else that needs to be understood. The body did not start at Pentecost.

It is correct for Bible teachers to support the unification of Gentiles and Jews into one body BUT here is the error: Who was grafted into whom? Was the Gentile believer grafted into the "Called Out Ones who were the Faith Believing Hebrew" or were the Called Out Ones grafted into the Gentile institution now called "The Christian Church"? It is like asking, "Which came first..the chicken or the egg?"

We already know that Abraham, a Hebrew, was the one man that was called out to be separated from the Gentiles around him. Out of Abraham, we have the Faith Believing Israel. Abraham and all of his Faith Believing generations had a Covenant with Almighty God based upon that faith.

The picture of Abraham being obedient by taking his son of Promise, Isaac and offering him to God shows the unwavering faith that Abraham had in his God. He walked the walk. It was at that time, when God stopped Abraham from taking the life of his son to be a sacrifice, that God told Abraham, "I will provide Myself". Abraham understood what that meant and so did the generations after him. They expected God to come in the flesh as the Messiah that would bring Salvation to the world.

Does this modern Christian Church really believe that the generations of Faith Believing Israeli weren't saved? Apparently so. They teach that the Jews/Israelites must become Christians in order to receive that Salvation. They teach that the Jew must be grafted into their Christian Religion. Most do not even understand the difference between an Israeli and a Jew.

Look what the Word of God teaches. It is quite different, to say the least.

Notice the words "excluded"?

Who was once excluded?

Notice the words, "destroyed the barrier"? Who destroyed the barrier...the Church or Jesus Christ?

Who made the two One?

And then, read again these words,"you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.' (underlining done for emphasis by me)

What was the foundation? That's right; it was the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus Himself as the chief cornerstone.

The body, the ecceisa was called up long ago, at the first when God called A BODY out of the Gentiles and made a "Peculiar People" through whom the Savior of the World come and through whom the Gospel would be spread into all the world to anyone that would gladly ask for this free gift called Salvation. It was Grace granted unto the Gentile.

It is as Joe Ortiz says in his book,

When the Christian Church can get their head wrapped around this fact, they will also stop their put-downs of the fact that the two sons of Joseph, Ephraim and Manassea are the very nations through whom the gospel has gone forth through-out the world as has been scripturally proven by David J. Smith in his videos.

By now, Christians ought to understand the difference between the Jew and the Israelites. They are not one and the same but two separate kingdoms, two separate sticks that will one day be united. The Jew, by and large, are segregated, who still await the Messiah. They live under the Law of Moses. The Israelites, on the other hand is made up of both Hebrews and Gentiles who preach that the Messiah has come and paid the Redemption price.

Pentecost was not the beginning of the Body of Believers. It was the outpouring of the Power of the Holy Spirit upon the Body to be a Helper and Comforter so that the Good News of Jesus Christ could go out into all the world.

The End Time Passover by Joe Ortiz is a priceless help in understanding these truths. You can find that book on-line at this website. Rapturebibleprophecyforum

Gerlinda

Praise the Lord!

Nothing like biblical TRUTH to set one free! I absolutely second witness these biblical truths!

OPEN YOUR BIBLES PEOPLE! And read it for yourselves. It is the TRUTH! Don't believe it, then pray and read it and ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you to all understanding. IF, I say IF, you are a true believer that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and you have repented of your sins, all things are possible through our savior, including understanding of scripture....


Galatians 1:11.......But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel that was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

DON'T PUT THIS OFF! Look it up for yourselves in the Holy Scriptures, I pray for you now, do ye also for yourself!

With LOVE,

YBIC
Michael

Posted:

CORRECTION

"When Jesus told Peter that upon this rock I will build my church (Matthew 16:18), Christ was telling Peter on the Day of Pentecost, His already existing ecclesia would receive the edifying, strengthening or emboldening power from the Holy Spirit, in order for His already existing ecclesia to have the strength it never had before, (See Luke 24:49; Joel 2:28; Ephesians 1:13) In Matthew 16:18, the word build used by Jesus in this verse is the Greek verb oikodomeo which means to strengthen , edify, embolden.

I had misspelled the Greek verb oikodemeo with oikodmess.

PLEASE NOTE THE CORRECTION AS IT WOULD CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE GREEK WORD FOR "BUILD". THIS WORLD DENOTES A STRENGTHENING OF AN ALREADY EXISTING ECCLESIA RATHER THAN THE BUILDING OF A NEW ECCLESIA.

Gerlinda

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Regarding the differences between Jews and Israel, while God made many promises to Abraham, one being that all nations shall be blessed through Abraham, God also made other individual promises and prophecies to the individual twelve tribes of Israel.

One of these promises include that the tribe of Judah would continue to be the administrators of the Mosaic laws until the Messiah returns. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of people be." (Genesis 49:10) This specific prophecy included the continual teaching and administration of the laws He gave to Moses, which are now viewed by present day Jews as the only way of salvation.

However, as the minister of circumcision (servant of the Jews) for the truth of God, Jesus came to confirm all the promises made unto the fathers, the patriarchs of Israel, the nation of promise, which included the fulfillment of the Law. (Matthew 5:17)

In Romans 15:8, Paul is telling the Romans that Christ has become a servant of the Jews (those who rely on circumcision for salvation) on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promise made to Israel's patriarchs, so that the Gentiles, all of those who are not of Israel, may glorify God for His mercy. It is written:

In this group of scripture, we see the word Gentile and nations used interchangeably to describe those who are not of the circumcision (Jews who rely on this for salvation). The Bible clearly identifies between faithful Israel and Jews. The Jews are these from the tribe of Judah, the tribe that was chosen to keep and administer the Law.

There are 12 tribes in the House of Israel, and only two of them (as well as the Levites) are Jewish! Therefore, those not of the Jewish faith of circumcision are all Gentiles, which obviously include all of these descendants from the other ten (scattered) tribes of Israel, as well.

The other ten tribes lost their law giving and law abiding identity; therefore, the remaining tribes (Judah, Benjamin and the Levite priests) are the only ones who still abide by the Levitical laws given to Moses. However, theorists still insist on keeping alive a genetic nation they call Israel in their exegetical mythologies, failing to realize that all Israel is the faith-believing body of Christ. His ecclesia.

The End Times Passover...pages 82-86 by Joe Ortiz

the above is a brilliant Biblical explanation of this endless argument who is a Jew and who is not. Those that cannot accept that Israel is the ecclesia made up of the natural olive branch and the wild grafted-in branch have a lot of deep down study ahead of them.....if they want to know the truth. This study proves that there is no Dispensation period just for Gentiles since it is all designed by God.

Gerlinda

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Fellow Believers,

If there is no Dispensation Period for just Gentiles, since it is very clear now that Israel and Gentiles are now one and the same, grafted into one ecclesia, , then you must come to the next issue and you should know by now, what it is.

That is the Resurrection of those who held to their faith in the Lord God Almighty, which include Israel of both Old and New Testament. Remember this... they and the Gentiles who joined with them...are the ecclesia. The so called Gentile Church needs to get it's ducks lined up or you know what will happen? They will continue to be hood-winked and terribly disappointed.

The ecclesia has One Root and Two Branches

When does the above take place? It is simple enough to answer. It takes place at the Seventh Trumpet. Then and only then, will the ecclesia made up of both Gentiles and Israel, who have both been grafted into the Root, which is Christ Jesus Himself, be joined to Him in their Resurrected Bodies.

And notice the words, "Therefore comfort one another..."

That is what we should be doing, lifting each other up. This cannot be done when bad-mouthing, name calling and accusations are made that have no bearing on the Truth of the Word of God. Do all you can do to support those that bring such truth to you.

(No separate Dispensation=No pre-7 year tribulation Rapture)

It is quite simple, isn't it?

See "This is so good and needs to be shared" for more in-depth details to this topic.

Gerlinda

Friends in Jesus Christ our Lord,

The bottom line is to pray for forgiveness and ask the Lord to come into your heart. Seek his face while there is still time. The bible will open up to all who ask for the holy spirit to guide them and comfort them.

The fact is, if you died in your sleep tonight, are you sure of your destination? Why not be sure?


ROMANS 10:13........For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


May God touch your heart,
YBIC
Michael

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

What did Jesus Christ tell His disciples? "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 KJB. Did you notice that Jesus didn't say He came unto the House of Judah but unto the "LOST SHEEP" of the House of Israel? Where did Israel go? They scattered mainly to the north & west. From there they traveled further west and south.

As I reread this former post of June 29, 2014 called The Covenant With Many, Who Are the Many, I can see now a much deeper understanding of this group of people called Israel because of all of the Biblical evidence given by Joe Ortiz.. What an eye-opener it has been.

Since having begun to read Joe Ortiz book, End Times Passover, which he covers this topic so well, you wonder why you never understood all this before. He gives scripture after scripture of who the ecclisa include. It is both the Old Testament Called Out ones whom God chose including the Gentiles who joined them. The ecclisa has always been there since God first called Abraham out of the Land of Ur.. It was not created on Pentecost. What took place on Pentecost is that this Body ecclisa was endowed with Power and Comfort in the commission to go out and preach the Gosple. This means, those that call themselves the church and hold themselves separate from Israel are short-changing themselves. Is it so hard to understand?

Joe Ortiz gives the scriptures that show Southern Kingdom of Judah, whom includes the tribes Judah, Benjamin and the Levite, were to be separate from the others and keep the Laws. The tribe of Judah would continue to be the administrators of the Mosaic laws until the Messiah returns. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of people be." (Genesis 49:10) This specific prophecy included the continual teaching and administration of the laws He gave to Moses, which are now viewed by present day Jews as the only way of salvation. (This teaching by Joe Ortiz is covered in "This is so good and needs to be shared" http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com/

This brings to mind that the Tribe of Dan, out of whom will come Anti-Christ, have been making and administrating their own brand of Law down through the ages. That law comes right out of the Roman Empire. They are a jealous lot who have the intentions of stealing that sceptre given to Judah. They are a jealous lot who mean to have another temple in Jerusalem upon which their god will place his image. And why are we, the ecclisa helping them with our support? Because we, the Assembly, Congregation, ecclisa have been so duped by those that brought the gospel according to Rome.

The on-going debate of who is the true ecclisa can stop once and for all we can get our heads wrapped around God's complete plan. He will bring all to completeness when the Lord Jesus Christ returns. I want to add here that when Jesus, said on the cross, "It is Finished", He is speaking about the Blood Offering that was needed to reconcile His People, all of them, the ecclisa unto the Father. He was the First Fruit of that Harvest and the rest of the Harvest will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The Dead arise first. This is the Blessed Promise given to His Chosen. No group of ecclisa has ever been called out...they have all gone through tribulation. Only two individuals have been caught out of this world without seeing death, Enoch and Isaiah. Moses was buried by God.

If you read your Bible, you will see that the two sons of Joseph received the greatest blessings of possessing much land and wealth. In fact, after WWII, the two sons, did possess 95% of the Land Mass and wealth, including the Door-ways (ports) to these land masses. So, that prophecy was fulfilled. Who are Manasseh and Ephraim? As crazy as it may sound to you, the Bible's prophecy and history shows that the blessing was given to Great Britain (Ephraim) and the younger brother, Manasseh the United States, whom was born out of the Great Britain. The US is the greatest of the nations that make up the CommonWeath Nations. Does it surprise you to know that the USA is not an independent nation? They are the CommonWeath Nations? What Covenant? They are of the Covenant that God made to Abraham. There are no other nations that fulfill this promise given to Joseph's two sons.

What about Judah? Judah wasn't given that blessing. Judah, to this day, remains entrenched in the small area of the Southern Kingdom where sits Jerusalem, in the territory of Benjamin. Judah refused her Messiah and will stay apart until they can come to grips with the fact that Jesus Christ is their Messiah as well as the Messiah of those of the Northern Tribe who spread into the world, where they intermarried with Gentiles. It is said that they would one day say, "Blessed Is He That Comes In The Name of the Lord." It will take a lot of tribulation to cause them to look up and stop relying on their own understanding. So, truthfully, both Israel and Judah are in for further revelations. The House of Israel has been the single greatest fulfillment of spreading the Good News of God's Word. Now, they are beginning to realize just who they are. It is not the Jews that did this but the Northern Tribe of Israel. The Jews have hung to their scriptures but were blind to seeing their Messiah of which they told.

If you want to know the real truth of who you, the ecclisa are, then read the on-line book, The End Times Passover, furnished by this site...RaptureBiblePropechyForum...for free. This is a gift that Steven was able to get from Joe Ortiz for free. Take advantage of it.

PS Those that say, I do not understand the Spiritual significance of this, I ask you if you understand the earthy events correctly that must take place to usher in the Return of Jesus Christ. Have you understood of whom the ecclisa include? There is always something new that we can learn if we chose to learn, which will help all of our presently held theology to hone in on God's Truth One more thing, earthly Jerusalem is not the New Jerusalem Coming down; I understand that. Gerlinda

_____________________________________________________________________________

Complete article of June 29, 2014:

The Covenant With Many....who are the many?
A covenant is an agreement between two parties. There are two types of covenants: conditional and unconditional. A conditional or bilateral covenant is an agreement that is binding on both parties for its fulfillment. Both parties agree to fulfill certain conditions. If either party fails to meet their responsibilities, the covenant is broken and neither party has to fulfill the expectations of the covenant. An unconditional or unilateral covenant is an agreement between two parties, but only one of the two parties has to do something. Nothing is required of the other party.

The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants.


God determined to call out a special people for Himself through whom He would bring blessing to all the nations. The Abrahamic Covenant is paramount to a proper understanding of the kingdom concept and is foundational to Old Testament theology. (1) The Abrahamic Covenant is described in Genesis 12:1–3 and is an unconditional covenant. There are no conditions attached to it (no “if” clauses, suggesting its fulfillment is dependent on man). (2) It is also a literal covenant in which the promises should be understood literally. The land that is promised should be understood in its literal or normal interpretation—it is not a figure of heaven. (3) It is also an everlasting covenant. The promises that God made to Israel are eternal.

Now, here is where the problem lies in understanding who these special people are. Remember, this Covenant was unconditional so it does not depend upon what the Israelites did and did not do. God keeps His Word.

It seems that the promise of many children given to Abraham who were children of the Promise was going unfulfilled so Sarah took matters into her own hands and gave her Egyptian hand-maiden to Abraham. But, we know the story that later Sarah, in her old age, finally gave birth to Isaac who, legally, held the promise to the Land. And the First-born son and his mother Hagar were forced to leave (but not without their own blessing) Then the next generation through which this Covenant would pass came through Isaac who had twin sons. Again, we see a twist in the rule of The First Born. Isaac's first born Essau did not relish his right as the Keeper of the Stick that represented the legal owner of the Land. We know the story of how Jacob, with the help of his mother, managed to finagle this Stick that signified who the Rightful heir to the Land belonged, away from Essau. Please remember that these were twin boys, same mother and same father. It was really God's plan to have Jacob possess the Land but God kept his promise of blessing the other son with much land; in fact, much more land than Jacob inherited.

But, that is not the issue here. We know that Jacob's name was changed to Israel. Jacob had 12 sons. Let's quickly jump to Joseph who landed up in Egypt as a slave and ultimately the second in power to the Throne of Egypt. He married an Egyptian woman who had twin sons. The oldest was Ephraim and the youngest Manasseht. After Joseph once again met up with his father Jacob and his brothers,. Jacob, adopted Joseph's two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim, to share in Jacob's inheritance equally with Jacob's own sons. Again, the Land blessing was given to the younger son, Manasseh rather than Ephraim.

So, what does this all mean? It means after the Land of Israel (the name given to Jacob) became divided into two Kingdoms due to Solomon's great sins against the God of his fathers. The Northern Kingdom included the 10 tribes and the Southern Kingdom included Judah and Benjamin. Levi, the priestly tribe was part of all the tribes.

If you are still with me, please remember that the Northern Kingdom, called Israel, was conquered by the Assyrians and by and large scattered. Where did they scatter? Mainly to the north and west, thus into the Land of Russia and Europe, with it's many people. They were already out of the Land of Israel at the time of the coming of Jesus Christ.

The Southern Kingdom called Judah remained until after the time of Christ's Coming and fulfillment of the AD 70 destruction of their Temple. Jesus Christ visited Jerusalem, was constantly being challenged by the Sanhedrin, the religious body that held power in the Land. By, the way, that Court did not exist after AD 70 but came back to power in 2004. Isn't that telling about the days we now live?

When, in Daniel 27, it speaks about the Covenant being confirmed, Daniel is told that He (Christ) would come and confirm the Covenant made with many. Who are the many? And, right on time, Christ came, was anointed as The Prince of that Covenant at His Baptism in the Jordan. He began His 3 1/2 year early ministry that ended at His returning to His Father as he stood upon the Mt. Of Olives.


But what did Jesus Christ tell His disciples? "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 KJB Did you notice that Jesus didn't say He came unto the House of Judah but unto the "LOST SHEEP" of the House of Israel? Where did Israel go? That's right...north and west. These are your "many". If you read your Bible, you will see that the two sons of Joseph received the greatest blessings of possessing much land and wealth. In fact, after WWII, the two sons, did possess 95% of the Land Mass and wealth, including the Door-ways (ports) to these land masses. So, that prophecy was fulfilled. Who are Manasseh and Ephraim? As crazy as it may sound to you, the Bible's prophecy and history shows that the blessing was given to Great Britain (Ephraim" and the younger brother, (Manasseh) is the United States, born out of the Great Britain. Does it surprise you to know that the USA is not an independent nation? They are both of the CommonWeath Nations, the Nations of the Covenant. What Covenant? Go back to the top and read it again. There is no other nations that fulfill this promise given to Joseph's two sons.

What about Judah? Judah wasn't given that blessing. Judah, to this day, remains entrenched in the small area of the Southern Kingdom where sits Jerusalem, in the territory of Benjamin. Judah refused her Messiah and will stay apart until they can come to grips with the fact that Jesus Christ is their Messiah as well as the Messiah of those of the Northern Tribe who spread into the world, where they intermarried with Gentiles. So, truthfully, Israel doesn't know who she is but it will be revealed to them someday. The House of Israel has been the single greatest fulfillment of spreading the Good News of God's Word. It is not the Jews that did this but the Northern Tribe of Israel.

So, what is the problem? The Stick of Land Possession does belong to Israel (Lost Tribes). And while the leadership of Israel, the land, is not legal, many of the settlers are doing what they are suppose to do, go back and possess the land. But The Stick of Kingship belongs to Judah. So, those two sticks are not yet joined.

We have those who call themselves Jews, who are of the Synagogue of Satan, who are not genetically of the House of Israel at all but only in the fact that they became converts to the Religion of Babylonian Judaism, have they muddled the term of Jews so thickly that few can distinguish who is what and if the term is even correct. These are the Edomites, whose jealous determination to get what he thinks is his, which he believes was stolen by Israel, have intermarried with the Northern Tribes of Europe. This mixture of the Assyrian also includes the Roman, Greek, Tribe of Dan, who is left out of the inheritance because of apostasy. These are the present rulers of the world's nations which they created and divided up after WWII. These nations are bringing about their New World Order and their One World Religion that serves Satan. These make up the United Nations. Do you see it?

They are determined to rebuild the temple, put their demonic leader on the throne, claim the land for himself and rule the world as Satan had said he would do. And who is it that is helping this Zionist Movement?

So, think about the Covenant. Who was the only qualified person who could confirm that Covenant with His own coming? Is it A/C or is it Jesus Christ? Who is it, that by His death on the cross, paid the Redemptive Price? Was it A/C or was it Jesus Christ? Who is it that will come again to destroy these evil doers? Is it A/C or is it Jesus Christ?

Scripture and common sense tells you that this World System has done a masterful job of convincing the Christians that the one that will confirm the Covenant is A/C. And in order to convince the House of Israel (The Lost Sheep) that this is still in the future, the lie about a pre-tribulation is taught so that their eyes are on escaping the A/C instead of hanging onto the promise that Jesus Christ will not appoint His Sheep, whom He was sent to Redeem/Save, from the Wrath of God.

I hope you will look at the video enclosed here by David Smith. View it with a whole different mind-set; one that clearly is telling you that the two greatest nations ever to rule the world are the Two Covenant Nations who have been infiltrated by the United Nations/Edomites to steal the two sticks of Land Ownership and Kingship.

Only after the Return of Jesus Christ will these two sticks be united into One. It is scripturally wrong to say that they are united already.

Gerlinda

People are not able to refute the scriptures that clearly expose the 7 year pre tribulation rapture as a LIE. So, they do what anyone who does not have scripture to refute the information in this book.


They:
1. Personally attack the author:

2. Call him anti semitic

3. They take a line or two out of the book and twist it out of context and make lies to try and discredit the author.


=======================

This is done so many times when will people wake up to this tactic of so called believer of Jesus Christ.....

Ex 20:16

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
KJV


Let me remind everyone of this scripture do you fear God?

If so then do you think maybe you should not attack falsely other believers?


If you are guilty of this do you think it might be worth posting an apology?

Do you think if you falsely accuse someone that it might be in YOUR best interest to publically apologize and repent?

Let your conscience be your guide.

Thank you to everyone who has supported this ministry of RaptureBibleProphecyForum and has NOT falsely accused or attacked the moderator or the contributors of this site.

God Bless

Steven

The Church (ecclesia, Called Out Ones) have been around since God called out Abraham.

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

It has been said that Israel and the Church are two separate entities. While at one time, we may all have believed that, we cannot and will not continue to believe that false teaching. It has been drummed into our heads in order to make us believe there are two Dispensations; one for the Church and one for Israel.

What is wrong with the above teaching is that, it seems those that teach this, DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE JEWS.

The Church (ecclcesia, Called Out Ones) have been around since God called out Abraham.

At the Coming of Jesus Christ, as prophesied by Daniel, among others, The Redemptive price was paid. Jesus, Himself, declared it so, "It is Finished". The ecclesia, which is translated "assembly" denotes the whole body of the redeemed. All those whom the Father has given to Christ - the invisible universal church (Eph. 5:23, 25, 27, 29, Heb. 12:23) Before Christ became the Lamb of God, the ecclesia lived by faith. After the Lamb of God shed His Blood, the ecclesia live by grace purchased for us and faith that His Work will bring His return, which is preceded by the Dead being called out first and then those that remain will meet Him in the air.

To imply that the whole body of the redeemed, whom the Father has given to Christ, are made up of only the New Testament Body, (whom, by the way, was not born that day but received the power of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost) is limiting God's redemption plan to just those of the New Testament Era. It really needs to be understood that the ecclesia was not born on the Day of Pentecost but was born the day that God called out Abraham and by obedience Abraham confirmed the Covenant made between he and God.

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CHURCH. The English word is derived probably from the Greek kuriakon (i.e,, "the Lord's house") which was used by ancient authors for the place of worship. In the New Testament, it is the translation of the Greek word Ecclesia, which is synonymous with the Hebrew kahal of the Old Testament. Both words meaning simply "an assembly", the character of which can be known only from the connection in which the word is found. There is no clear instance of its being used for a place of meeting or of worship, although in Post-apostolic times, it early received this meaning. Nor is the word ever used to denote the inhabitants of a country united in the same profession, as when we say the 'Church of England," the "Church of Scotland," etc. We find the word ecclesia used in the following senses in the New Testament:

1. It is translated "assembly" in the ordinary classical sense (Acts 19:32, 39, 41)
2. It denotes the whole body of the redeemed - all those whom the Father has given to Christ - the invisible universal church (Eph. 5:23, 25, 27, 29; Hebr. 12:23)
3. A few Christians associated together in observing the ordinances of the gospel are an ecclesia (Rom. 26:5, Co. 4:15).
4. All the Christians in a particular city, whether they assembled together in one place or in several places for religious worship was an ecclesia. Thus all the disciples in Anticoch, forming several congregations, were one Church (Acts 13:11)

{More on this subject can be read The End Times Passover by Joe Ortiz - pages 7,8)

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A reading of the Old Testament is proof of who the Called Out Ones are. Abraham was a Hebrew, not an Israelite. This Called Out body made up of the Gentiles that joined Abraham and his family that continued their walk of faith, did not become known as Israelites until Jacob's name was changed to Israel by God Himself.

Then, to get an absolute clear picture of what makes up Israel, one needs to understand that the 12 sons of promise given to Jacob make up the 12 tribes that lived in a United Kingdom called Israel during the reign of Solomon. Most of us are quite clear of how the 10 tribes split from the two tribes of Judah & Benjamin (also the Levites) after Solomon. Now Israel was divided...The Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom. History tells us that most of the Northern Kingdom were scattered to the 4 winds when the Assyerians invaded. Yes, for the sake of argument, there was an remnant that made up the Northern Kingdom remained in the land and rejoined the Southern Kingdom's rule.

The Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Jesus came unto the House of Israel to bring Salvation. These were the other Sheep of His Fold who were now scattered at the time of His Coming. Among the House of Israel are the Gentiles that joined them. There have always been Gentiles such as Ruth, Esther, Rahab that became a part of the Children of Isreal. That same Israel is the entity that makes up the present believers.

The exception would be those of the Tribe of Dan, from whom would spring the A/C as prophesied by both Moses and Jacob about Dan. That cannot be disputed no matter how one wants to waltz around the issue. They turned their back on the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, took up pagan practices and mixed their seed with the seed of Satan. The Bible makes references to the Sons of Satan. That is not a mere term but is taking the reader back to what occurred in the Garden, when the Seed of the Serpent was planted and for which God condemned him to a life-time of crawling upon his belly in the dirt.

There are those that belittle this fact regarding the 10 tribes of Northern Israel by implying that, because the Royal Houses of Europe are of the Dannite, Satanic lineage, that the common people are also. The Royal Blood-line or Illuminated Ones scream in horror if you should put them into the same category as the Common folks. The Illuminati claim lineage to the Fallen angels.

No one, on this site, has ever said that these Fallen angels were human. That would be another example of stretching the facts. Any Bible Scholar knows that the angels are able to assume the body of a human, which is seen in the stories of Abraham entertaining two men who turned out to be messengers (angels) from God telling him that his wife Sarah would have a child in her old age. Angels were seen going into Sodom and Gemorrah and desired by the men of the city. So, it is no secret or false claim to say that angels (whether good or bad) could appear as humans.

But back to this subject of the Church and Israel being two separate entities. THEY ARE NOT as proven by the examples given in this text. Who are separate entities to this day is Israel and the Jews. Sorry, those of you who believe they are one and the same...they are not. They remain two separate sticks until God joins the two together. I know there are those that they are united already because there is a nation called Israel. However, that claim is speaking without understanding that the Jews make up the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin (including Levite priests who are not tribes)

The Jews (The Southern Kingdom)

Regarding the differences between Jews and Israel, while God made many promises to Abraham, one being that all nations shall be blessed through Abraham, God also made other individual promises and prophecies to the individual twelve tribes of Israel.

One of these promises include that the tribe of Judah would continue to be the administrators of the Mosaic laws until the Messiah returns. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of people be." (Genesis 49:10) This specific prophecy included the continual teaching and administration of the laws He gave to Moses, which are now viewed by present day Jews as the only way of salvation

However, as the minister of circumcision (servant of the Jews) for the truth of God, Jesus came to confirm all the promises made unto the fathers, the patriarchs of Israel, the nation of promise, which included the fulfillment of the Law. (Matthew 5:17)

I know that once a person can understand that the Jews and Israel are not the same entity( but that Israel and the Gentile Believers are the ones that make up the ecclesia), then this issue of a separate dispensation for the ecclesia has to be thrown out. It holds no validity. There is a day of reckoning coming for the Jewish Religious Hierarchy. That same Hierarchy ruled in the days of Jesus Christ. It, once again, became an official body within the nation of Israel when the Sanhedrin once became a power that ruled over the land.

{In October 2004 (Tishrei 5765), a group of rabbis representing varied Orthodox communities in Israel undertook a ceremony in Tiberias,[16] where the original Sanhedrin was disbanded, in which it claimed to re-establish the body according to the proposal of Maimonides and the Jewish legal rulings of Rabbi Yosef Karo. The controversial attempt has been subject to debate within different Jewish communities.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin

This is whom will call out to Him and say, "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord."

Gerlinda

See:
This Is So Good and Needs to Be Shared

Regarding the differences between Jews and Israel, while God made many promises to Abraham, one being that all nations shall be blessed through Abraham, God also made other individual promises and prophecies to the individual twelve tribes of Israel.

One of these promises include that the tribe of Judah would continue to be the administrators of the Mosaic laws until the Messiah returns. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of people be." (Genesis 49:10) This specific prophecy included the continual teaching and administration of the laws He gave to Moses, which are now viewed by present day Jews as the only way of salvation.

However, as the minister of circumcision (servant of the Jews) for the truth of God, Jesus came to confirm all the promises made unto the fathers, the patriarchs of Israel, the nation of promise, which included the fulfillment of the Law. (Matthew 5:17)

In Romans 15:8, Paul is telling the Romans that Christ has become a servant of the Jews (those who rely on circumcision for salvation) on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promise made to Israel's patriarchs, so that the Gentiles, all of those who are not of Israel, may glorify God for His mercy. It is written:




In this group of scripture, we see the word Gentile and nations used interchangeably to describe those who are not of the circumcision (Jews who rely on this for salvation). The Bible clearly identifies between faithful Israel and Jews. The Jews are these from the tribe of Judah, the tribe that was chosen to keep and administer the Law.

There are 12 tribes in the House of Israel, and only two of them (as well as the Levites) are Jewish! Therefore, those not of the Jewish faith of circumcision are all Gentiles, which obviously include all of these descendants from the other ten (scattered) tribes of Israel, as well.

The other ten tribes lost their law giving and law abiding identity; therefore, the remaining tribes (Judah, Benjamin and the Levite priests) are the only ones who still abide by the Levitical laws given to Moses. However, theorists still insist on keeping alive a genetic nation they call Israel in their exegetical mythologies, failing to realize that all Israel is the faith-believing body of Christ. His ecclesia.

The End Times Passover...pages 82-86 by Joe Ortiz

The above is a brilliant Biblical explanation of this endless argument who is a Jew and who is not. Those that cannot accept that Israel is the ecclesia made up of the natural olive branch and the wild grafted-in branch have a lot of deep down study ahead of them.....if they want to know the truth. This study proves that there is no Dispensation period just for Gentiles since it is all designed by God .


Gerlinda

For Fair Use, Discussion and Educational Purposes

Jude 1: 14, Even as Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied them: See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of Holy Ones to execute Judgement upon all..." . This is not speaking about the ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation of Believers) but is speaking of His Angels. This is the Day of Judgement and Wrath.

Just before the Lord's physical return with His Holy Ones to administer His Wrath, The Dead in Christ have risen first and then those that remain to MEET Him in the Air. This does not happen 7 years prior or even 3 1/2 years prior but just prior to the Wrath of God. Notice, they meet him in the air.. while those coming with the Lord come down with Him. Also, notice that the Lord Cometh with Ten Thousand of His Angels. These are His Warriors that will fight other Spiritual Warriors of the enemy. The resurrected ecclesia are not warriors nor are they the ones v.15 " to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all of the defiant words, ungodly sinners have spoken against him." NIV

We must remember that the judgement of the ungodly belongs to the Lord, not the ecclesia.

Now, if the ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation) can understand that the ecclesia is made up of both Gentile and Israel, then they can stop claiming there needs to be a separate Dispensation for the Gentile and the Israeli. After all, they are ONE GROUP.

It is the Jew of Judah/Benjamin (Levite priests) that need to come to the saving grace of their Messiah, not the Gentile & Israeli congregation of believers who are all of the ecclesia which includes the Old Testament saints that lived by faith.

There is just no reasoning behind the belief that a Rapture must happen so that the ecclesia dispensation can be finished and God can concentrate on the Jews. The ecclesia is here on earth up to the time of the Wrath of God. The Time of the Gentiles is not speaking about the ecclesia. It is speaking about the unbelieving nations that no longer have control over the city of Jerusalem.

Therefore, there is no need to cite these Holy Ones/Angels as being the church saints that return with Jesus Christ as a reason for a pre-tribulation Rapture.

All scripture that cite references to "holy ones' as accompanying the Lord at The Second Advent more accurately identify God's holy angels, not the Christian Church. This deduction makes more sense and harmonizes more so with other scripture, thereby eliminating the need of having to justify varying Tribulation theories that have no sound scriptural base whatsoever. Holy ones spoken of in I Thess. 3:13, Jude 14 and Zechariah 14:4 is not identifying the Christian Church but God's angels.

Jude quotes from a prophecy of Enoch; Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints.” KJV. Jude’s reference the Book of Enoch is not exact, which does seem to be contrary to the conclusion he quoted from the book of Enoch..

The concept of ten thousand saints is not unique. In Deut. 33:2 And he said: "The LORD came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints; from His right hand came a fiery law for them.”

The word for saints here is actually qodesh in Hebrew- meaning holy ones; hagiais muriasin, literally, "in or among holy myriads." The saints (holy ones) can mean angels or faithful human beings, or both.Jude 14 The word for ten thousand, is representation of a tremendous number- myriads, it has the meaning of the highest number at that time that one could calculate.

Creatures located in Heaven are described in Dan 7:10 as “A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.”

Rev 5:11 “Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands. ” The bible teaches that heaven has a vast population of both angels and people- saints. These are those (either one or both groups) who will come with him when he comes to earth to judge and set up his kingdom.

Jude was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21), we know that what he quoted from Enoch was true. This is confirmed by the fact that the same idea about the Lord returning with His holy ones to render judgment found elsewhere in the Bible, Zechariah 14:5, Isaiah 66:15, and Psalm 96:13, Deut. 33:2.

The bottom line is that using the word "Saints" here is not proof of those "Holy Ones" being a pre-tribulation group known as the Ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation/Church)

To emphasis this truth, let me once again remind the reader that adequate proof has been given by Joe Ortiz in his book, "The End Time Passover" that the believers of both OT and NT included Israel with the Gentiles grafted into Root, Jesus Christ.

The End Time Passover can be read on line on this site.

Gerlinda

It was hard for me to put aside the teachings that I had heard all of my Christian walk.. that being... Israel, the nation was the fulfillment of God's promise of a "Place for my people, Israel and I will plant them so that they can have a home of their own and no longer be disturbed." II Sam. 7:10

While it is true, Israel, the nation had to once again be back as a nation in order to fulfill all the other prophecies that speak of an A/C and False Prophet who will rebuild Solomon's Temple for their own, deceive the Jews & unsaved Gentiles into accepting it as the true fulfillment of God's plan: the complete plan of God encompassed much more than a mere earthly land brought back through the efforts of man.

I, like so many others, believed that I would be taken in some pre-Trib. Rapture UP to Heaven where I would dine at the Lord's table for 7 long years. My focus used to be UP instead of what the Word of God clearly tells us. It tells us that the Bride of Christ would come down. And we, the ecclesia were not the bride.

It was also hard for me to even concentrate on the subject of The New Jerusalem coming down. None of it ever made sense to me but now I know why.

We had been taught that the Church is the Bride of Christ. Others taught that the Church is the Body of Christ. Again others taught that it was both. Like I said, none of it made real sense at all. You just nod your head and try to figure it out on your own.

Now, that I know, without a shadow of a doubt that the Ecclesia, Assembly, Congregation includes all people of faith, from the time when Abraham was called out by God right on through to the present day Called Out Ones that include both Israel and Gentile that believe upon the Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Now, I am able to put the correct terms on who is whom.

While Theorist have taught that the church is the Bride of Christ; it is just not so. The ecclesia are the "living stones, who are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Christ Jesus.

I Chronicles 17:9-14 tells us "The Lord will build a house for you, when they die, the Lord will raise up offspring to suceed you, one of your own sons (Jesus Christ).....". He is building His ecclesia. The He is not King David nor Solomon as many theorist teach. Look at II Sam 7:14 KJV "I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:"

They use this scripture to say it cannot be Jesus Christ because it speaks of committing iniquity. However, as Joe Ortiz points out in his book, the End Time Passover, the word for "committing iniquity or when he does wrong, I will punish Him. NIV, the Hebrew word for this is avoh . The NASB concordance states that avah is a denominative verb from the masculine noun "Avon", which means "bearing the punishment for iniquities of others".

The point is that the promise of salvation given to Abraham that one who would come through his seed; eventually down to David's Seed would build and rule God's House.

Who or what is God's House? It is the Called Out Ones? The ecclesia made up of Abraham, all of his seed and the Gentile that grafted themselves into them. Of course, we know that the House of Judah has kept itself apart from that because they refused to accept that seed as their Messiah. So, for the time being, it is the House of Israel/Gentiles, whom spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

These are the "Living Stones". This brings to mind why it is that God was so insistent on when an earthly altar and temple were built, they were not to be cut or hewn out by man. But, they had to be of the natural stone found on earth. Do you see what He was getting at?

We have man now re-creating God's own creation, mutating the natural DNA instead of leaving it in it's natural state. This is Satan's attempt it not only mimic God but to destroy God's plan. I believe this is a connection to the Temple of God, the living stones, the body of Christ.

Solomon built the earthly Temple of Worship. Christ Jesus is building His Temple, His living Body on earth made up of all those that have already passed on in faith, who are waiting for that Resurrection Day, when they, along with the living, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air.

So, now that we know the ecclesia are not the Bride of Christ, who is the Bride? When Jesus told His disciples that they could not go where He was going; He was going to prepare a place for them, He was speaking about the Abode, the New Jerusalem which shall come down. It is the future home of all of Christ's Body.

This glorious edifice will house a community of God's Called Out Ones, which is now being built by His Son Jesus Christ. This priesthood community will be housed in the true Promised Land, New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb, which is The Holy City of God.

Now, doesn't that explain all the more clear why we meet the Lord in the Air? We don't go all the way up to Heaven, stay there for a period of time and then come down. NO, NO! If we are dead/asleep, we will rise first and then be joined by the living who will be changed into incorruptible and thus we will join the Lord in the air.

The Lord will make a new heaven and a new earth and thus we will be with the Lord forever and ever.

Please read Joe Ortize's Book, "The End Time Passover". This chapter 12 is the lesson on The New Jerusalem.

PS Notice how that chapter is #12 and the foundations of this New Jerusalem is 12 with 12 gates?

Gerlinda

bump

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Here is a quote from "Why Christians Will Suffer "Great Tribulation" by Joe Ortiz.

That makes so much sense.

When Jesus gave His disciples the "Great Commission" in Acts 1:1-8, He didn't use the word preach, which is the word derived from the Greek word euangelizo, from where we get the word "evangelize". He said, You will be my witnesses" .

There are those that believe that the ecclesia will be Caught Out before Great Tribulation begins. They will tell you that those that will be left behind, known as the Tribulation Saints, will come to the saving knowledge (somehow) that they apparently missed prior to that "Catching Out of the Beleivers". Really now? How is it that they come to that saving knowledge? It is the same way that you and I came to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and surrendered our lives to Him.

Someone "witnessed' to us through their own testimony and told us that the only way to Salvation is through Jesus Christ. It is the task of sharing what God has performed in our lives as a testimony to His glorious works, power and saving grace.

Do you really believe that the Church will be taken away from their own great commission given to them while there are those left behind that still need Jesus Christ? Why would God take out the very Witnesses that are needed during the days of Great Tribulation? He gave them a commission that needs to be finished to the End of the Earth. This is not merely witnessing to the Ends of the Earth. It is the completed course, the race, to the Time of the End.

Yes, I know what is said...there will be the 144,000 Jewish Witnesses. There is something greatly wrong with that statement.

First of all, if a Jew is witnessing for the Lord Jesus Christ, he is one of the ecclesia. Secondly, remember the lesson of who is the ecclesia? It is Spiritual Israel, made up of those of the Northern Kingdom and Gentiles that joined them in witnessing to the gospel of Jesus Christ (Yes, there will be others of the Southern Tribes included here).

The Apostle Paul was chief among those that took this gospel to those of the Lost Sheep and the Gentiles. From him and others to the Lost House of Israel/Gentiles, the Gospel has spread.

America is a Covenant Nation just as the United Kingdom. Within those Covenant Nations are the enemies of our souls....the servants of Satan...those of the Synagogue of Satan, that we hear more and more of in these days...the Illuminati...named after that "Illuminated One, the Fallen Angel. .

Therefore, those named as the 144,000 of the 12 tribes will include those that joined with Israel in the service of the Lord God.

There are those that claim these are the Church, which is correct only if this church/ecclesia includes those of the natural branch Israel. However, these people usually omit any semblance of an Israeli person. They have "hogged" the whole honor unto themselves. That is just as much of a mistake as it is to place the ecclesia/assembly/congregation/church into a separate dispensation that will, by some honor bestowed upon them, take them out before the Lord reveals Himself to those Jews (Judah/Benjamin/Levite)

Now, here is something that Joe Ortiz shared in his book, page 128

I Thess. 4:16,17 states many Called Out Ones will still be alive when Jesus returns. The dead in Christ will be raised first and those who are alive and waiting for the Lord's return will be "caught" together with them to greet and have a meeting with the lord in the air as, He makes His descent to planet earth. Until that time, the Lord exhorts us to reach out to the entire world and lead the lost to His Kingdom.

This book by Joe Ortiz, "Why Christians Will Suffer 'Great Tribulation'" and "The End Times Passover" have given me more understanding of what is really the truth of the scriptures than all the years I've heard the pre-trib., mid-trib. Rapture Theories. Although they were comforting, they were not accurate.

Why not let the Word of God speak it's own truth instead of trying to make it fit some Rapture teaching that is not even consistent with the grand theme of God's Mercy upon both Israel and Gentiles who have sought Him and are saved unto Eternal Life. That does not mean you are saved from Martyrdom.

This is a sure thing; if you managed to live through some of Great Tribulation coming upon Planet Earth, you may either die of one of the many catastrophes coming, pestilences or martyrdom. Very, very few, out of the huge population of earth, will witness the Trumpet blast calling them up to meet the Dead in Christ and the Lord in the air. Many are called but few are Chosen.

Multitudes didn't shirk from their commission to profess Jesus Christ and gave their very lives. Shouldn't we, who have been called to be witnesses for the Lord, face whatever it is that we have been called to do, in the same manner instead of looking for some "Escape" that isn't even consistent with God's Word.

Yes, it will be the most horrendous time upon this earth ever but He will give us His Grace to bear our own cross just as Christ Jesus bore His.

Thank you Steven for recommending these two books to me. I am so thankful to have had my understanding made much more clear. No, it is not a pleasant thought but it is a truthful understanding.....According to His Will.

Gerlinda

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

We are a people who love myths, traditions, Easter eggs and Santa Claus. This is not great preparation for understanding and preparing for of great "Tribulation" or an "End-times Passover." People need to read Joe Ortiz' books- NOW!

Matthew 24:19-25

Jesus is telling His disciples that one of the biggest horrors of that period will be great signs and miracles by false prophets and many False Christ who will attempt to deceive the chosen ones of God. Many of these signs and miracles will be especially designed to fool even Christians into believing that Jesus has returned; however, the spirit-filled believers will be able to see through the ruse, barely!

Notice the word "Barely"? There is a very good reason for that word to be used. The technology to fool people is so advanced that only someone who is ground in the TRUTHS of God's Word in a solid Biblical manner will be able to sort through the Smoke and Mirrors. For instance, take a look at this Illuminati Playing Card that is describing the what will transpire when "their Christ' shows up.

This role-playing game called the "Illuminati -- New World Order", or "INWO" is proof that the Illuminati plan to produce Antichrist and it was well known long before 1995, when the game was distributed. Too many details are presented by these cards too close to the actual event to be accidental. The game depicts the events of 9/11 quite accurately and it depicts the planned events of bio-terror that are filling our daily news.

While people like us who are aware of the events being orchestrated are called Conspiracy Nuts, it is the Illuminati themselves who have been conspiring to produce their New World Order. Would you believe they even have a card that depicts the Rapture?



Here is a quote from the Cutting Edge:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1052.html

What does Jesus say:



Why would there be that kind of a warning given....unless there will be some deception being put upon the masses that will beckon them out into the deserts, which we know is the very area where the first UFO crash took place in 1948. It is also the location of one of the most secret places known... Area 21...that has many, many levels down under the ground where technology from the hand of Satan himself takes place.. Underground cities spread through-out this country as well as others. (secret chambers?)

Because the Christians have been indoctrinated with a pre-7- year tribulation doctrine, they fail to heed the teachings that clearly give the road signs of what must happen before being called up to meet the Lord.

First there must a great Falling Away and The Man of Sin revealed. Remember, These 'Guiding Spirits' said, to suddenly snap these people into another dimension, soon after their Christ arose.



Plus, there must also be the darkening of the Sun and the moon turning blood red before that Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. Joel 2:31

These are the things that Jesus said would be experienced by His disciples then, and, Matthew 24, specifically talks about the things His disciples will experience in the future.

Then, the horror of all horrors, universal chaos, including the sun being darkened, the moon‘s. Who were His disciples? They were His ecclesia , who went out into all the world giving testimony and being a witness of Christ. These are the very ones that Jesus Christ confirmed the Covenant made to the Fathers at the beginning.

Why in God's Wonderful Name, would anyone be looking for a Covenant made with many by a False Messiah? Because they have not grasped the fact that the He in Daniel 9:27 is none other than Jesus Christ.

For anyone to say this is speaking to just the Jews, it would be wise for that person to back up and settle in his/her mind who Israel truly is (both Jew & Gentile Believers) because it is these that make up the complete ecclesia/church, the Elect.

Isn't the Church Christ's Elect? Isn't Israel who came to saving faith in Him through the witness of the Disciples, the Elect?

The Orthodox Jews are not part of this group at this time: their time comes when they call upon the name of the Lord just prior to His Return.

Yet despite all of Jesus Warnings, you just know, that if possible, the very Elect will be deceived. I know that most believers are certain that they would not fall for any traps laid for them. REALLY?

They've already fallen into the pagan observing days having been convinced they are, some-how, honoring the very Lord that gave His Life for us. Give serious thought to these pagan holidays and who it is that they honored. Have Nothing to do with them....Nothing.

Do you really believe the Apostles would compromise and accept these. No Way. They gave their very lives to continue to teach what they had been taught and that was to be a witness to all the world, giving testimony of what they had seen and what they had learned from the very Word of God.

There wasn't a Christmas, Easter or Halloween Tradition among them.





The cross is not to be viewed solely as a symbol of weight, as if carrying a heavy domestic or financial burden; but it is meant to symbolize exactly what it is, an instrument of death, the same meaning it had for Jesus.

These are the things that Jesus said would be experienced by His disciples then, and, Matthew 24, specifically talks about the things His disciples will experience in the future. Then, the horror of all horrors, universal chaos, including the sun being darkened, the moon turning blood red.

"Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation" by Joe Ortiz featured on this Forum for over 2 years....worthy of reading, I guarantee you will never see things the same again.

LINKS for the Two Books:

The End Times Passover

Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation


gerlinda

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

The Lord asked Peter, "Who do you say I am?" Luke 9:20. After Peter made the confession of who Christ is and that he loved Him, The Lord goes on to point out that "He" would build His ecclesia upon the Rock (Himself), not Peter nor upon any one location, which in this case, happened to be up at the very location, at the base of Mt. Hermon...Bainis Falls.

That is where the Fallen Angels had descended. It is there, where the huge cave entrance to the large Mount/Rock is located. It, has a "gateway" inside down into the pit of Hell. It was a Pagan/Roman place of worship to the god Pan..

How fitting that Jesus would take Peter to that very location where the Fallen Angels first appeared and which is where they had their conversations with Enoch, the Scribe. Enoch took their petition, begging for forgiveness to the Almighty Father, but were refused. The 200 leaders of these Fallen Angels are chained up to the coming Judgement Day.

So, this whole occasion was a testimony of who Jesus Christ is, The Great I Am, Himself, who had called out His ecclesia right from the get go when He called out Abraham from among the pagans in the Land of Ur. He has been there all the time, through each trial and era that the Calling Out have gone through. And now that God had become man and was soon to offer Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice to redeem them from the pollution at the hands of Satan and the Fallen Angels, He, rightly, took his disciples to the very spot that these Fallen Angels had descended upon... as a witness, not only to the apostles... but to the under-world that it didn't matter how they have set themselves up, He, the Son of God, had come to set men free......for" Many are called but few are Chosen".

The Word "Christian" was first used in Antioch where the pagans used the term for those that followed Christ. It was, in reality, a degradatory term which has stuck.

To imply that the Israel had to become Christian is such a play on word games in order to pull the wool over the eyes of those that call themselves Christian but do not read the scripture readings for themselves and put it together. . ( Aramic Bible in Plain English - Matthew 15:24) "But he answered and said to them, “I am not sent except to the sheep that have strayed from the house of Israel.” The other versions say the same thing.

It is pretty plain that Israel, the Northern Kingdom, which had dispersed into all the world is the Lost Sheep, to whom Christ sent the believing disciples gathered from the Land of Israel; "Go, preach to them and gather them into the fold." is a clear message. The story of the Good Shepherd is a prime example of Him going out to reach the one that is lost and carry him back into the Shepherd's fold. Any Gentile that got attached to Israel became a part of that fold, "Congregation" (ecclesia).

The Gentile Church does not save Israel.....it is through the Lost Sheep of Israel that the Gentile was allowed to become a part of God's Called Out Ones, the ecclesia and became saved. Why is that so hard to believe?

I'll tell you why...the present day church has been brain-washed into believing that "they" are the primary Chosen One when it is the other way around . The Modern Church does not want to believe this truth; they have been convinced and continue to be convinced that salvation only comes through the Gentile Church. To put it into it's proper context would take away their self-imposed importance.

It also destroys the reason for a pre-tribulation rapture for a Gentile Church so God can get on with the business of dealing with the Jews. Now really, God needs a Gentile Church, which isn't even the complete ecclesia, to do this?

Again, I ask the question. Was the Body of Christ the Called Out Ones that He called "The Lost Sheep of Israel" or did He say, "Go out and save the Gentiles? Did I miss something? Is there scripture that implies that the Body of Christ was the Gentiles???

I believe there are many scriptures in Romans and Hebrews that speaks of the Natural Branch and the Grafted In Branch. The Gentiles thought they were the true Branch and the natural Israel thought that the Gentiles were suppose to keep their ways of doing things. Paul instructed them that they were one in the Root, Jesus Christ. The trouble the Church has today is not being able to distinguish who is whom. They are one, the Body of Christ....not the Bride of Christ.

If it needs to come down to a spouse, then it is speaking of the unfaithful wife with whom God had made a marriage contract, whom the 12 Tribes of Israel, as a whole, were unfaithful to their husband and went whoring after other gods. But that is another subject, separate yet connected. Ten of those 12 Tribes are being found and brought into the Sheepfold....along with the Gentiles that attached themselves to the Tribes.

Replacement Theology is the term that is used for any group that tried to take the place of Israel. And the thing that is nuts about this is that most teachers/preachers that use that term don't even understand whom the Bible says is Israel.

The Gentile Church (whoever that is suppose to be) should not be teaching that they need to be removed before Jesus Christ will deal with the "JEWS" because it is not true.

Their problem is that they do not know the difference between Israel (those of the Northern Kingdom, who in large part, accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior) and the Jews, which to this day, still are the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and the Levites who did not accept Him as their Savior.

They remain divided on the issue of the Messiah. But God, in His Wisdom knew all of this and even let us know this fact when the scriptures tell us that Jesus said He would not return until they called out to Him.

Gentile Church....you do know that Judah (the Jews) are the separate stubborn part of God's Calling, that have still not had their blinders removed and practice their OT religion, don't you? If you do not, then read Romans, Hebrews and go back to Acts and get the complete story. You will find out there was a reason, why they were kept in the dark, you could say. They had their role to play out for the End Time Prophecies to be fulfilled.

The Tribe of Judah, the Southern Kingdom, hold the Royal Scepter, which is jealously wanted by the The Tribe of Dan

Is Judah(Jews) the proper name to call all of Israel? A hundred times NO.

I can attest to how hard this fact is to comprehend because I've been there, done it, believed it so hard as to put up my stubborn wall of defense "that all of Israel is Jewish". Wow! How wrong I was. Thankfully, God gave me enough of a mind-set not to cling to an old teaching just because it's been around for a few hundred years. I didn't learn this over-night...several people were involved in opening my eyes to this revelation. Praise God, for that understanding because now, the other pieces to this End Times Mystery makes perfect sense...it fits.

Only Judah is the tribe that can have that title of Jews applied to it. Abraham was a Hebrew. Isaac was a Hebrew and so was Jacob until his name was changed to Israel .

But only the oldest son Judah is rightfully known as a Jew . Because the world has muddled these terms together, we have a church that does not even know the difference and in it's ignorance accuses others who do know the difference of two issues.

1. They call those that do not agree with them, that all those living in the land, who are not Arabs, must be the Jews.
2. Because you dare to correct them or use the correct terminology, you get branded as being Anti-Semitic.

The day will come when God will reveal to the ecclesia who are of the Tribes of Israel and who are the Gentiles that were grafted in. It will be a surprise to most, I believe.

Because Judah and Benjamin were united in the Southern Kingdom, in the land allotted to them, that is where they remain today, in unbelief of their Messiah The Temple Mount is located in the Benjamin allotment of land.

The Tribe of Benjamin are also known as the fierce left-handed fighters. They held special distinction in the days of old and I am sure they will, repeat their history again in the near future. The name given to them by their father Jacob is "A Ravenous Wolf". " Benjamin shall ravin like a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night, he shall divide the spoil." Gen. 49:27.

You see, it is the Tribe of Dan that will produce the A/C and try to convince those that are looking for another temple, that he is their Messiah. But he must have the blood-line of the Tribe of Judah. When he presents himself within a human body, having the blood of the Tribe of Judah, they will be convinced for a little while but then, the blinders will be lifted and that light-bulb moment will happen for them.

The blood of every person coming to Israel to live is tested; that is for a reason. Apparently, there is much to be said about the blood-line that proves who is qualified and who is not. The Shroud of Turin has been used in this DNA manipulation that will pull the wool over the eyes of the Tribe of Judah, Benjamin & the Levite priesthood who are preparing for future Temple Worship once the temple is built.

The moral of this whole story is: Do not pit=guess God and His plan upon the understanding of a Gentile Church that is willingly to skip town, you could say, because they've been deceived into believing IT is something special. Or, that God would not put this Gentile Church through Great Tribulation.

The Church/ecclesia is not Gentile and is not more special than the Israelites, who were the first Gospel Messengers.

I know, yes, I know, they have been told that the Jews would not accept the message so now they are separate. That is true if they are talking about the True Jews .

But, they are wrong if they are talking about the Israelites . The ecclesia is made up of both Israel and Gentile and will be here through Great Tribulation.

If you don't believe me, turn to Revelation 12:13-17 NKJ

"Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Who is the woman that gave birth to the Male Child : It is not the same one that are called, "The rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The Tribe of Judah gave birth to the DNA lineage of which came Noah, Boaz, King David, Nathan & the Mother of Jesus. This lineage did not include Solomon.

There seems to be two groups of people here, doesn't there? Yet, this seems to be over-looked as referring to just the Jews when it is talking about the ecclesia (both Israel and Gentile) that keep the commandemnts of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There-fore, common sense thrown in with all the scriptures in Hebrews, Romans and Acts, should convince anyone, really wanting to know the truth, that the Ecclesia is here doing what it is suppose to do until their time to share their testimony of Jesus Christ is over.

Then they will be called up to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the Air. Some will be Martyred. Some will die in other ways. Some will be protected for whatever purpose God has for them. But, for sure, they won't be Raptured until the Dead in Christ rise first and then the living will be changed and join the Lord in the Air.

Nothing else even makes sense and God is not a God of Confusion.

Gerlinda

PS To further understand who the twelve tribes of Israel are and to fully understand Replacement Theology that continues to be misunderstood by the
Clergy and the Laity in these Last Days, please read the book by Joe Ortiz called "End Times Passover".

link: End Times Passover

http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3330765498&frmid=8549&msgid=924414&cmd=show

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

How long is an Hour? I'm not speaking of the hour on the clock, which is 60 minutes.

I'm thinking of this portion in Joe Ortiz book, "Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation"

To the angel in the church of Philadelphia, the Lord acknowledges this congregation as being faithful to the name of Jesus, even though their outward strength has dwindled from the persecutions. These are the called out ones who have endured patiently throughout their existence, keeping the command of the Lord. He tells them that they will not be victimized by the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world for testing. He exhorts them to continue to hold on to what they have (faith in the Lord Jesus Christ) so no one will take their due reward, the crown of life. To those that overcome, the Lord will write on

__________

In that above paragraph, it is clear that these living Saints will not be victimized during that hour of testing coming upon the whole world.

Then in this next scripture, below, we read of the ones that seem to be the ones that will be doing the victimizing/persecution of the Living Saints for the hour that they are given to rein as kings with the Beast.


Revelation 17:12 (KJV) " And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. "

And then there is this reference of how in one hour great wealth has been brought to ruin . Apparently, it is these ten kings under the Beast who have, through their terror upon earth's inhabitants, is now reaping the results of their evil reign.

Revelation 17:18 "In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!' "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off."

How ever long that hour is that is coming upon the earth, it is clear that the Beast and his ten kings are involved. But even more apparent is that the Church of Philadelphia, whom the Lord had set an "Open Door" which no one is able to shut, is still on earth.

Now, what do those that believe the true Saints (their Gentile Church) will be taken out before there even is a 7 years of Tribulation, have to say about that? I don't think there can be any argument that these Saints mentioned are the most qualified, is there?

1. They are given the highest praise of the 7 churches.

2. No one, even the powers of Hell, will be able to close the door of their Salvation, so there is nothing to keep them from being raptured before the hour of Temptation comes upon the world. Yet, there is no rapture or taking out mentioned.

3. They are even promised that these of the Synagogue of Satan, which we now, openly refer to as, the Illuminati, will come to bow before before their feet.

Revelation 1: 7-9 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens: "I know your works. Look, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying--I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."

Joe tells in his book:

Therefore, the called out ones need be ready and willing to lay aside everything (material possessions, jobs, friends, and even family) and pick up their crosses and follow Him. Paul tells us what it‘s going to be like in those days, which will include a spiritual malaise which (to a great degree) already exists at this precise moment: But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. Notice the last bit of advice??? Have nothing to do with them. But here is what we are to do:

"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry, (2 Timothy 4:2-5, NIV)

Are you at peace with yourself, knowing that you have done all that you can do to bring others to the Saving Grace of Christ?

Are you carrying the Cross that has been given to you by the Lord? This is not the cross of making your own life better. In fact, it is a cross that, usually does the opposite.

As Joe points out:

As he begins to close his second letter to Timothy, Paul knows that his death is soon at hand; although weary, tired, exhausted, in much pain from years of beatings, floggings, and many other sorrows. Knowing and expecting to be executed soon by his persecutors, he is at peace, knowing the mission Christ gave him of evangelizing the gospel has been completed. He knows his reward will be given to him on that glorious day (not any sooner than) when Christ appears; but, yet he continues to exhort his fellow servants in the Lord about the rewards they will also receive, on that great day, as He promised:

For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day – and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing, (2 Timothy 4:6-8, NIV).

The Greek word for poured is spendo, which literally means and is used of one whose blood is poured out in a violent death for the cause of God.


This may be a shock to many but to a few, who have been paying attention to what is the drive behind these End Day events, it is no surprise at all. More surprising is the fact that most Americans just do not give a rip about the Satanic Drive behind those that are swearing to come to your borders to behead you.

Today, there was an article posted on this forum that should be very disturbing to anyone that is the least bit aware, that Rome has, not only invented this group of terrorist, but is determined to use them against Christians and Jews.

Concrete Evidence ! Vatican Wrote Koran !

http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3330765498&frmid=8549&msgid=944018&cmd=show

There will be martyrs among the living Saints who await the Coming of the Lord. There will be those who are set aside, with special protection and power, to do the will of God in His Divine Purpose. There will be others who will probably die from the pestilence coming upon earth and through the catastrophes already greatly increasing upon earth. Only God knows our destiny; He knows what you will do with this information.

Whatever it is that God has for you; the sooner you know that you will not be caught out in a pre-tribulation Rapture, the sooner you will settle that matter it in your heart and mind therefore better able to set yourself about the business of building the Armour of God to withstand the wiles of the Devil. Your only food may well be the Word of God hidden within you.

Sincerely,
Gerlinda

Joe Ortiz book
Link: End Times Passover

http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3330765498&frmid=8549&msgid=924414&cmd=show

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

There will be few that make it to the end; those that believe they will be Raptured out before the A/C is revealed are being deceived by Lying Spirits, which is something they would never admit are what is behind their unyielding spirit to follow the lie out of Hell.

Looking at this again, ought to show, that the Illuminati are very aware of a Rapture when the Dead in Christ Rise First and then those living shall meet the Lord in the Air, so what did they do?

You can be sure that the Powers That Be will use their technology to fool people into thinking they are hearing the command to go out into the desert and there, they will be caught up.

This caught up may well be the demonic technology that lifts multitudes into another sphere and it isn't into the New Jerusalem either.

They fooled millions of people into thinking they saw two plans flying into the Twin Towers, didn't they? In fact, multitudes of Christians still believe the official lie and that is because they are uninformed about the workings of the enemy, therefore judge all things through their own limited understanding.

The Word of God tells us about not going out to the desert if we are told He is there. It also tells us exactly how He will return and every eye shall see Him no matter where they may be.

Gerlinda

You May Just Be Part of the Problem

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

I ask you to read this out of Jeremiah and then I will ask you a question.

Jeremiah 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

Do you see that God has said He would make a New Covenant with The House of Israel and The House of Judah ?

Do you see what you don't see? Where is The House of the Gentiles ?

Could it be that Joe Ortiz is absolutely correct when he did the study in the Word of God that shows that the ecclesia is Spiritual Israel? And that it includes all those Gentiles that joined her....whom were grafted into the Natural Branch, whose Root is the Lord Jesus Christ , whom always was and will be?

You know what that means, those of you that believe the Church (ecclesia) began on the Day of Pentecost, don't you? You are wrong!

The fault is not yours for believing this since that is the way your church leaders taught you; the fault is yours if you continue to believe this ERROR because you refuse to search for the truth.

The ecclesia is not a Gentile Church but goes all the way back to the days when God had given His Chosen People the first Covenant that pointed to Jesus Christ , whom paid the Ransom Price that defeated Satan's hold upon the people of the earth. His blood was spilled for ALL those that are of the ecclesia, be they Israel or the Gentiles that were allowed to be grafted into the fold.

So, could it be that the" Time of the Gentiles" being over is speaking of the End of Gentile Powers dominating Jersualem? Absolutely, that is what it is speaking about. And when did that take place?

The whole of Jerusalem was taken back from the Gentiles (Jordan) in the Six Day War in 1967. The last 40 years will be over when Israel begins her Jubilee Year 2016/17.

Now, going back to the above scripture; doesn't it speak about the fact Jersualem will never be taken again but belong to Israel; it is the City of their God?

40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

I expect that the Anti-Christ and the Power behind him will continue to make all the attempts to totally dominate the whole city and declare Jerusalem to be the capital of Palestinians but according to God's Word, it will not succeed. Our Heavenly Father, through the Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ has set the borders there-of.

And if He, The Word , said that the Time of the Gentiles is over, it is over.

Although Rome is taking over the city piece by piece and even now, through it's allies, their Moslem brethren, whom have even gone up to the Upper Room where the Passover Supper was held, to worship, kneeling upon their prayer rugs and facing East to pray to Allah (whom we know is Lucifer), they will never control the city of Jerusalem again.

Even though they built their Masonic Temple upon the Temple Mount, it will not survive the Wrath of God upon them who dare to divide the City.

Judah will not see their Messiah as having already come until such time as things are so severe that they cry out for Him, " For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord Matthew 23:39.

The House of Israel and the House of Judah remain divided until the Lord brings the two back together.

Do you see, Oh Ye, Gentile Church, if you are a part of Spiritual Israel, you are here for the long haul because Israel is sealed here until the time that they will be gathered from the four corners of the earth prior to the Wrath of God coming upon those that dare to divide His Land.

I leave you with a thought.

When you divide yourselves into a Gentile Church, aren't you dividing God's Word that says Israel is His? And blessed are those Gentiles who have been allowed to be grafted into the Natural Branch of the Olive Tree , whose Root is Messiah Jesus Christ.

If you are not a part of Spiritual Israel and adhere to a pre-7 year Tribulation Theory, you are part of the problem.

Gerlinda

Please read Joe Ortiz Book, "The End Times Passover" which is provided freely on this site for your edification. It is a wonderful eye-opener.

If there is no Dispensation or separation from the original Israel, then why would God rapture the eccelsia out seven years before Jesus Christ returns????

Do you notice when this Rapture Card is presented?

It is when the tape runs out.

The joke is on those that believe the lie.

Even as they lied to you, they printed up Cards that showed the truth.

It comes at the End, when the Elect are gathered out of the Four Corners of the Earth.

It comes when the Dead in Christ Rise First and then the Living shall be changed to meet the Lord in the air.

The Holy Ones are His angels.

The ecclesia (Assembly, congregation, Church} are those that meet Him and His Holy Ones Coming down to Pour out His Wrath upon an unbelieving world.

It more sense every day and how nice it would be to know that another Christian out there has grasped this truth.

The Church did not begin at Pentecost