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WE STARTED OUT BELIEVING IN A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
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BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)


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Yahusha is I Am That I Am  (Exodus 3:14)

Yahusha is YHWH  come in the flesh, He put aside His Diety to become a human, born of  a Virgin.

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John 14:26
"the breath of life"

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God is not His  Name but a term.  The Holy Spirit is not a person but the very Breath of the Father.

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REFERENCES IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH TO THE BIBLE

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Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

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Re: JUDAIZERS: When Almost Right is Not Good Enough

Michael wrote:


**********************
PATTI

We are changed after we are saved. We are free to worship in spirit and strive to keep the commandments without guilt. No more fear of death by not being able to keep the law. Remember, this is the law of the book written by Moses; not the 10 commandments, written in stone by the finger of GOD!

These are FOREVER! They are written on our HEARTS and most people know them like they do their children. They know right from wrong without having to be told because it is subconsciously put in our minds. If we have FAITH then we must change our ways and act as though we are changed, or what good have we done. We must not be lazy because we are saved, but useful, because we have the power of God to help change others lives, and hopefully bring them to Christ. In other words, one should have a desire to please God by keeping his commandments. This requires an active EFFORT on our part.

FAITH without works is DEAD!

YBIC

Michael
*******************************


Dear Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up, as I do want to address this.

"Faith without works is dead"

I just knew someone was going to bring this up, and almost addressed this in the above post, but did not want to make it too long. It is a standard quote that everyone who is a Sabbath keeper always uses. Believe me I know, as the Lord put it on my heart to confront a whole church gathering of SDAs a few years ago! I was not pleased as who would be brave enough or foolish enough to do that? But, having many friends who went to this church, the Lord put it on my heart to search the Bible, pray and study and go do this. He gave me the strength, because personally I was terrified, but I obeyed, and people listened and what happened after that was in His hands.

What I find very interesting when someone brings up this quote, is they are admitting that they see Sabbath keeping as works. And, I respect that as it is being honest, even if they do not want to admit it. Okay, lets take a good look at this.

First, let's look at what our own works produce without having Christ, and from the Old Covenant.

Isaiah 64:6
" But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Now, let's look at some Scripture verses that speak about what kind of works our faith is to produce, and who is doing the work in us under the New Covenant.

Roman 15:18
"For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me."

Ephesians 2:10
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

1 Corinthians 6:17
“But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.”

Philippians 1:6
“Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

Yet, the most telling of all verses is about Jesus being the vine and we being the branches:

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.” – John 15:1,5

We must understand that works are considered fruit! And who produces fruit in our lives? Is fruit a product of the vine or the branches? Well, the vine of course! Branches may hold the fruit,but the vine produces it! That is what James is talking about, that faith without producing fruit (works) is not really true faith. Because if one truly has faith they will be followed by good works!

There is an interesting addendum. Because of our faith, the spirit will fill us and when the spirit will fill us, the works are the fruit of the spirit...Thus our faith leads into works (James 2:14-26).

Here James reminds us that the kind of “faith” which is required for salvation will produce actions. Therefore a faith that does not produce fruit is dead, and the only way to produce fruit is to have one's branch connected to the Vine!!

Everything of lasting value is the result of the work of Christ but this is what is truly amazing: Christ does his work through us. This is the privilege that is ours, to be the voice, hands and feet of Christ as he accomplishes his purposes. And, in order to do this we must rest in Christ everyday.

The carnal one day a week Sabbath rest of the Old Covenant, that was written in stone, becomes the spiritual continual rest in Jesus under the New Covenant. What do you think is more precious to God? His Commandments written in stone? Or His commandments now written on every believers heart? He may have written the Old Covenant commandments with His finger in stone, but He wrote His New Covenant commandments in His own blood via the death of His only begotten Son.


Lastly, I would like to address these statements you made Michael:
****
"If we have FAITH then we must change our ways and act as though we are changed, or what good have we done."
****
Do you see. here. in this statement you are making this all about you. and what you must do and how you must act. When we are born again and become a new creation, Jesus is Lord of our lives, and He works through us. We don't need to worry about our own efforts as we are yoked with Him and He carries the load. The only work we do is to make sure that we stay close to Him and rest in His work in us. And if you think this makes one lazy, think again, because Jesus was always working and being about His Father's business and when He lives inside of us so are we!!

And this statement that you made:
****
"We must not be lazy because we are saved, but useful, because we have the power of God to help change others lives, and hopefully bring them to Christ."
****
The only useful being to God is Jesus! The only being that changes lives is Jesus! The only being that brings people to Himself is Jesus!
It is not up to you at all!! The only way you are useful to Him is if you let Him work through you, otherwise you are just a branch without fruit.

That is why I object so much to the returning to laws that require our works!! It is not about us and what we can or cannot do, it is always all about Jesus.

I hope I addressed what you wrote in a way that clarifies where I am coming from on this issue. Sabbath keeping is a personal choice for those who have the luxury of not having to work for a living on Saturdays. The New Covenant Sabbath is resting everyday in Christ, the shadow has ended as the real is come. My objection is when others try and tell those who are not keeping this Old Covenant law, that it is important in any way to their personal walk with Jesus, and acting like they have more truth by turning back to this shadow, and encouraging others to do so, also.

Bless you brother, I appreciate you and I am grateful for you questions and comments.

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.


P.S. Michael, I think your comments are valid and need to be addressed therefore am posting part of your letter and my response on a separate thread.Hope that is okay with you.

Re: JUDAIZERS: When Almost Right is Not Good Enough

Hi Patty. First of all, you are a very thorough and good writer. I see that you have been blessed in this area!

I wanted to ask you something. You often reference those who say that there are things they must do in order to be saved and that grace is not enough in their eyes. Can you tell me what you are talking about? I haven't seen that yet on this site, and I can't help from thinking you may be referring to those who observe the Sabbath and keep and honor the Father's holy feast days. Is that correct?

I am one who chooses to observe the feast days over the pagan holidays, and I choose to observe the Sabbath on Saturday instead of Sunday, but I am solely saved by the sacrifice of Christ for the remission of my sins and nothing else. I do these things because that that is what the word of God says and not because I must do them in order to be saved. There is big difference there, and I want to make sure the other readers can see this.

The Old Testament is such a large part of the book where the Father took many opportunities to tell us what these days meant to Him. He used terms like "everlasting" and "forever" when describing how they were to be observed. These commandments continued into the New Testament, with Christ himself honoring them. He never told us not to continue these, so it seems best to assume that they are "forever" just as He stated. It is also important too that when a believer comes to this point in their walk where the Father shows them He wishes for them to honor His word in this way, then it is critical to obey, for we know that obedience is better than sacrifice.

I am not wanting to debate with you here and don't want to start a long thread of back and forth (that's the part I don't like and don't do very well). I just felt the need to clarify that many of us simply want to honor what the Father said rather than doing these things in order to be saved. It just doesn't seem fair to over-categorize this thought process and way of doing things as legalism or a saved-by-works philosophy, if that is what you are saying. Maybe I am reading you wrong, but I wanted to make sure.

Thank you Patty, and may you be blessed this day!

Stacy

Re: JUDAIZERS: When Almost Right is Not Good Enough

Dear Stacy,

Sorry it has taken me a while to respond. I have written so very much on this subject that I think I have said all that I can say. I know you are new here,so if you have the time and are interested you could search the archives of this site and see all the articles and studies I have written about this.

Most importantly, I am NOT against anyone who wants to keep Saturday as a Sabbath Day, as that is a personal choice and totally up to each person. It is nice to have that luxury in a world that seems to be busy 24/7! What I object to is anyone telling others that Sabbath keeping is better or is in any way required for a Christian under the New Covenant to do. Or, how commandments written in stone are superior to the commandments written on our hearts.

Jesus kept the Sabbath, although he worked many miracles on that day, because until His death he was still under the Old Covenant law, the law He fulfilled every jot and tittle of. Do we hear of any instance when Jesus kept the Sabbath and went to the Temple during the 40 days after His resurrection?

Please also understand that I am greatly outnumbered in regards to those who write on this site, as almost all of them are Sabbath keepers,so you are in good company. But, I have to do what the Lord shows me to do, and that is to present the other side of that, as I see it as returning to the Old when the New has come. Hopefully we have many readers who come here who can benefit from both sides of issues being presented and discussed so that they can find out for themselves.

It's all about loving the Lord and each other, as that is what matters the most.

YSIC

Patti C.



Re: JUDAIZERS: When Almost Right is Not Good Enough

I agree with you Patty. I've stated several times now too how much the disagreement pains my heart; I pray for us to all be on one accord. I respect your position and wish not to debate. I think we are all following where we feel the Lord is leading us, and that is really all we can do.

Blessings to you sister.

Stacy

Re: JUDAIZERS: When Almost Right is Not Good Enough

Dear Stacy,

Ah yes, peace be with you. Amen to what you said. When it all comes down to it, we are on the same side, and that is what counts. We can respect the differences and rejoice in our common ground in Christ. We are family after all!

Agape sister!

Patti C.

Re: JUDAIZERS: When Almost Right is Not Good Enough

Bump