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Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Hi Stacy,

I enjoyed this detailed article of yours so much and cannot disagree with one iota of it. In fact, this portion, which you stated here

Easter is taught as an observance of Christ’s resurrection, of which they proclaim to be on Sunday (the first day of the week), with His crucifixion and death the Friday prior. Friday to Sunday is not three days and three nights! In reading and studying scripture, one will find that Christ died on a Wednesday evening, between 3:00 p.m. and sundown and was in the tomb into the next day, which was the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread (which was a feast, high Sabbath day), through Saturday between 3:00 p.m. and sundown, at which time He rose (and this day was the end of the weekly Sabbath). This is why when Mary and the others went to the tomb very early Sunday morning, the first day of the week, His body was already gone! This period of time as scripture spells out (Wednesday evening till Saturday evening) is three full days and three full nights, just as was spoken in Matthew 12:40 (For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.)


blessed me so much because that is the exact way I've been trying to show others and always, even if they agreed mostly, they would never accept the fact that Our Lord & Saviour arose on the Sabbath. And why wouldn't He? He is Lord of the Sabbath, not of Sunday. His Resurrection happened on the very day that honors His Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Father. Once risen, He stepped into the next role of the High Priest, where He officiated at the offering to the Father, the First Fruits that He set free from Paradise. Allowed for the purpose of showing the Resurrection Power of God were the many who were seen later walking around in Jerusalem. I'm not sure of this but can only surmise, since they were resurrected from the dead, that they followed Our Lord up to heaven on the day that He left this earth. Yes, they were not seen at the place where he left, at the Mt. of Olives, but from wherever they were, they probably left just in the twinkling of an eye. It seems to be a picture of the promise that our own bodies (still living) will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, able to be taken to meet Him in the Air when that time comes.

Anyway, thank you Stacy and you are so correct; Steven puts an enormous amount of work into providing this variety plus the news site to keep us up to par with what is taking place in these days of enormous change. In my opinion, there is no other site like this one where we can all learn from this variety and make good friends. If we could not look at these article from others, who may not teach totally correct, how would be able to distinguish the many falsehoods out there. We would still be stuck paying attention to someone who claims to have all the necessary degrees, as if we don't have a mind of our own, God's Written Word and The Holy Spirit guiding us in our heart-felt desire to know TRUTH.

Gerlinda

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I


I Ditto that Gerlinda!

Stacy, this is a wonderful read and full to the hilt with His written truth! This is a WONDERFUL testimony to see what obedience to His word and His will does. I pray this message goes far and wide, reaching deep in the heart of many who call on his name, because it is the truth! What a joy it is to give up all things pagan. As a matter of fact you feel liberated! What joy it is to get BACK to His way of doing things. As the stronghold of deception is broken from our souls we REALLY can get a feel of what it was truly like when He spoke to His Church in the wilderness...both Jew and Gentile alike, for they were one people, with one Law and they together served one God...THEY WERE ISRAEL!

As we are seeing all the ugliness darkness holds as Christ is allowing things to be exposed, I feel a special calling to the doctrine of truth, for all those He has already drawn away from organized religious institutions. It seems they are more susceptible to seeing truth for what it really is, once they take that step out of what each of us, at one time or another, held so dear. But it is definitely in His time.

It is my desire to encourage our brothers and sisters to take another look at EVERYTHING we have been taught, then see what THUS saith the Lord Most High. Stacy is right! Call out to Him for TRUTH and don't be afraid of change. This is the ONLY way we can be safe any more. For Christianity has taught us that the Church is separate from Israel, but bringing together His Church is still His desire today. He still desires all to come in to One God, One People, One Law, One family. He gave us the story of Ruth and Naomi for this very purpose, they had it RIGHT!

Let Us as Brothers and Sisters...Get It Right!

He is calling us to BELIEVE...................HIM!

Blessed be His Name


Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Hi Everyone,

Patti did NOT post this article on on this thread but I think that it is a good idea to post it here to help us all to work out the finer details in a mature discussion.

Me personally I am saved by GRACE through faith (I can't boast) I rest in JESUS ONLY.

Feel free to read or comment with respect and maturity using SCRIPTURE to share your thoughts.

This is a Forum.

God Bless

Steven

=====================================================

Patti C.: Wrote:

Hello all,

Just as there were Judaizers in the first century Church, we are still dealing with this same problem today. Those that want to keep putting old vine into new wineskin, and adding their own works to Grace. When preaching the Gospel of salvation, when was the keeping of the Law or Sabbath keeping mentioned as a condition of being saved? And, when one was saved, were they ever told by the disciples to be sure and keep the Sabbath? Is the law of the Old Covenant or Sabbath keeping ever mentioned as part of the Gospel of Christ?

Below are just a few verses from the Scriptures that deal with this issue, and there are many more. Let us not be taken in by those that want to turn back to bondage and give up our freedom that Christ lived and died for us to obtain. For this Hebrew Roots Movement is the most dangerous of all false doctrines entering the Church today.

Galatians 5:1

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Galatians 2:16

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Titus 3:5

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Colossians 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Galatians 2:4

Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery—

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Colossians 3:11

Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Romans 16:17

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Romans 10:9

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Gal. 5:14

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The following article tells it like it is about all this. I am not trying to be in conflict with my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I do feel a need to alert others of the dangers of this movement, and show, in this regard, there is nothing new under the sun. It was happening in the first century with early Jewish Christian believers and it is definitely happening now.

#######################

FOR FAIR USE EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES


Link of article or video : http://www.biblicalmissiology.org/2012/07/03/the-judaizers-when...


The Judaizers: When almost right isn’t good enough

By John Span

The true God says: “No righteousness, wisdom, or religion pleases me, but only that by which the Father is glorified through the Son. It is those who lay hold of the Son and me and my promise in him, by faith, to whom I am a God, a Father; it is they whom I accept, justify, and save. Everyone else remains under wrath, because they worship what is no god.” (Martin Luther’s Commentary on Galatians)

In modern times, it appears that what is demanded in many professions and areas of life is not demanded in theology. When I deposit money into my bank account, I expect that the teller will be accurate and deposit the check for $289.00 and not get it just about right with shifting the decimal only one small place and making it $28.90. Ditto for car parts which must be an exact correspondence to the part number. Yet when it comes to theology many are content to get things “just about right.” This paper will show the Apostle Paul paid very close attention to theological precision and that moderns would be wise to follow that example.

The Judaizers:

In the Apostle Paul’s day there was a group called the Judaizers who got many things right. They believed in the value of the law, the resurrection from the dead, the need for faith in Christ, that Jesus was the Messiah and that he was divine. On the surface they were as orthodox as they come. Yet, Paul had a dispute with them. It would be easy to charge Paul with being an obscurantist, a dogmatist, someone looking for a theological quarrel, and someone who was being divisive in the Body of Christ.

So what was the problem?

In his book Christianity and Liberalism Gresham Machen analyzed the theology of the Judaizers and suggested that for all their so-called orthodoxy there was something amiss in their logic of salvation. Machen showed that both Paul and the Judaizers had the same elements in what constitutes salvation, but that the application of the order of them was radically different. In his words:

Paul said that a man:

(1) first receives faith in Christ,

(2) then is justified before God,

(3) then immediately proceeds to keep God’s law.


The Judaizers said that a man:

(1) first receives faith in Christ,

(2) then keeps the law of God the best he can, and then

(3) is justified…[ii].

The consequence of what seems like a seemingly insignificant error, would lead Paul to deliver some of his strongest words to any party in his writings, namely that they should be cursed or eternally condemned [Gk.anáthema ] (Galatians 1:9).


Christ + something= nothing

At stake was the fact that the Judaizers said in effect, Christ’s work needs something else to constitute full salvation, and in their case it was circumcision. For Paul it was a working out of the adage, “addition to the work of Christ is the greatest subtraction of all” or “Christ plus something equals nothing.” Yet they pontificated that they were perfecting what Paul had started.

Machen added his observation about this activity what he called “piecing out the work of Christ”, that is to say, adding piecemeal or a bit at a time, something to the finished work of Christ: “…Such an attempt to piece out the work of Christ by our own merit, Paul saw clearly, is the very essence of unbelief; Christ will do everything or nothing, and the only hope is to throw ourselves unreservedly on His mercy and trust Him for all.” (emphasis mine)[iii]

The need for theological discernment

Paul’s thinking exemplified the fact that the line between truth and error is very small. Both Charles Spurgeon and John Murray have demonstrated that this distinction calls for spiritual discernment. Respectively they said “Discernment is not a matter of simply telling the difference between what is right and wrong; rather, it is the difference between right and almost right” and “the difference between truth and error is not a chasm but a razor’s edge.”

In addition, very likely the Judaizers were congenial, looked upon as upstanding models of orthodoxy in their communities, and could claim tradition as their ally. In modern day terms they might be the radical contextualizers of the day who advocate “staying inside of Islam” just as the Judaizers advocated “living out the gospel” within Judaism. It seems rather ironic, however that one of the proponents of this “staying inside of Islam,” namely, Ralph Winter, would assert in a rather anachronistic way:

“Well, everywhere Paul went “Judaizers” followed him and tried to destroy the Insider Movement he had established.”[iv]

Yet Paul saw through the Judaizer facade and sharply pointed out four areas of contention. They were:

a. Incredulity. At root Christ’s finished work was insufficient in their minds and they could not bring themselves to believe it was good enough or that the Gospel was intrinsically powerful enough to thoroughly save. Recall in Acts 15:1 they said, “Unless you are circumcised … you cannot be saved”

b. Self-justification. Since something needed to be added, the works of the law were close to their background and they seized on them. It is as Roy Ortlund observed about the human condition as a whole: “self-justification is the deepest impulse in the fallen human heart.”

c. People pleasing. A tangible demonstration of their piety through the law or imposing that on others would bring accolades from their religious friends, Christian or otherwise (Gal 6:12).

d. Persecution avoidance. The foolishness of the cross of Christ in the eyes of the local context was something to be avoided by the Judaizers (Gal 6:12). Better to appear respectable.

Modern day Judaizers

Consider the following statements:

1. “I am a fully surrendered Christian and I follow Jesus to the uttermost” or “you must be a fully surrendered Christian and follow Jesus…”

2. “I am an incarnation of Christ in this mission field” or “you must be incarnational…”

3. “I love Muslims just like Christ” or “you must love Muslims just like Christ would.”

4. “I am a great missionary because I have contextualized myself just like Christ did” or “if you want to be a great missionary you must….”

5. “In talking with Muslims about Jesus, we must learn what we call “receptor-oriented communication.”

At first blush these sound very convincing. But are we hearing some echoes from the past?

The Judaizers would have said:

“I am keeping the law to the very best of my ability.” “I am as pious as one can be”

“I am the model of righteous living in my community.” “I ….I….I…” Then they would project this on to others and deliver a “you must …” or “unless you…” set of rules to be followed. If they lived today they would use the more politically correct “we must” to soften the edges somewhat [see number 5 above].

In each system, the focus has shifted from accolades to Christ, to Him living and moving through someone by the power of the Holy Spirit to subtly drawing the attention to one’s piety through rule keeping and to imposing this on others as well.

The antidote to the Judaizers

Paul knew that he shared with every human, the tendency to boast in his own abilities and his own “results.” Thus he preached to himself: “May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. ” (Galatians 6:14).

He also knew that he would have to call out the Judaizers for promoting what he determined was “really no gospel at all” (Gal. 1:6) and risk the fact that he would be charged with trying to “win approval” (Gal 1:10) for himself while exposing their dark side.

Paul labels the trajectory of their actions as “enslaving” as they are “turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world” (Gal. 4:9). That is to say, although they had been given complete freedom in Christ, they were looking in the rear-view mirror with some adulation for what had been rendered of no real consequence by the cross. The wording is strong and communicates the message that what you are yearning for is impotent, and will only serve to enslave you. Little wonder he had called them “foolish Galatians” (3:1) earlier on.

The so-called zeal of the Judaizers is misguided and Paul correctly observes that it carries an undercurrent of drawing the Galatian audience away from commitment to the true Gospel and by default its messenger Paul (4:17). That it to say, for all its superficial commitments, this zeal is actually divisive at the core as it is ultimately self-serving for the Judaizers whose motivation as Paul saw it was simply to “boast about your flesh” (6:13). With something of a knock-out blow, Paul then suggests that if the Judaizers would truly be zealous, let them go all the way and instead of circumcision, let them “emasculate themselves” (5:12).

Finally, Paul puts the Judaizing campaign in perspective by suggesting that what really counts is a “new creation” (6:15). That is to say, only a supernatural intervention by God in Christ can count for anything and Judaizing religion is only cosmetic.


Summary:

“The gift of spiritual discernment", is one of the most needed spiritual gifts in this day and age. When “almost right” is subtly pushed as the new gospel of respect and tolerance, it is actually “completely wrong.” Paul risked his reputation to call out the anti-Gospel campaign of the Judaizers with all their semblances of orthodoxy, and the clarion call at this time is for those who like Spurgeon see the difference between “right and almost right” to declare it boldly. For in the final analysis, the question “by whose power and for whose glory?” must be asked of every Judaizer whether modern or ancient, and any tendency to accomplish or add to salvation by human power will always draw glory to itself, instead of to the cross of Christ must be exposed for what it is.

#################

It's a fine line...it is a very fine line between this falsehood and the Truth. Judaizers want you to believe that you must be perform the works of law and Sabbath keeping to be justified before God. This is not the Gospel!! We are justified to God by Christ and Him only! It's only having Christ in us that we are able to do good works, as we rest in Him and yoke ourselves to Him and He does the work. This seems so obvious and simple to understand, yet still so many are being deceived, and woe to those that add to this deception.

It really helps to understand that the Old Covenant was between God and man, thus required man to perform rituals and keep special days etc. But, the New Covenant is between God and Jesus and requires no works of man whatsoever other than surrender, and belief in Jesus and what He did for us, and worship in Spirit and in Truth. Jesus is Truth and Jesus is Spirit via the Holy Spirit.

If we are truly in Christ and rest in Him everyday we no longer need a special day set aside for our rest, other than physical rest. The New Covenant Sabbath is Spiritual and we find complete rest only in our Lord and Savior.

As to the Saturday/Sunday debate, this has been twisted way out of proportion with all manner of different opinions. Worshiping on Sunday is more about the eighth day than the 1st day, as the eighth day being the symbol of a new creation and a New Covenant. But that is another study.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, and all those that have the luxury of not having to work on Saturday to support themselves or their families, can enjoy resting on this day. But, for anyone to tell you that if you do not rest on this day, you are not saved, or justified, or not God's elect, do not believe them for they are modern day Judaizers. Pray for them to come to the fullness of the Truth in Christ.

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Dear Stacy,

I did not know that Steven posted my study here until I came to reply to your post. So I guess I will just go ahead and post what my reply is and it will be in addition to what has already been discussed. I pray I do not offend you or anyone else, but as Steven says this is a forum and all sides can be discussed.

I just have to address what you are conveying, and I will use your quote below as the springboard of what I have to say.

Quote:

"Another clue… we all seem to be okay with nine out of ten of the commandments because they are basically written on our hearts -- don’t steal, don’t covet, don’t murder, don’t commit adultery, have no other gods before the Most High, etc. But now, let’s talk about the fourth one… “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. This is where the problem begins, right?! This is the only commandment that generates a stir! And why is this? Because it requires action and obedience, and in many cases, it requires change! And also, maybe it’s because the Most High specifically stated that the Sabbath would be a sign between God and man for sanctification, and the enemy wants to distort the truth and put his sign on our heads instead!"

end quote


Where in the New Testament does it say that Sabbath keeping is a sign between God and man for sanctification?? Where? It is not part of the New Covenant, so it is not there. The sign becomes spiritual and is the Holy Spirit given a believer by Jesus, that is the sign of sanctification and none other! The seal of God is on our foreheads and on our right hands in what we think and do, just as the mark of the beast is. Totally dependent on which spirit we let guide our lives, the Holy Spirit or the spirit of antichrist.


As to the 4th commandment, it is also the only Commandment that is NOT reinstated in the New Testament under the New Covenant!! This keeping of a day holy actually requires doing works...our doing of works to prepare and make sure we do all the right things. In other words this day is all about man's works or non works!!

If this Sabbath Saturday keeping is so important then I am sure the Lord would make it so that every born again Christian would have Saturday off work so they could keep this special time. Yet, I know many wonderful spirit filled Christians that have to work on Saturdays as that is mandatory for their livelihood. Doctors, nurses, people who take care of the elderly, motels and restaurants, and on and on. Do you not think that the Lord knew what this modern world would be like and how difficult it would be for us to keep this one day of the week to rest?

And, if the Disciples actually kept the Sabbath as holy that would have been passed down and New temples would have been built for that purpose.

And when you state that Jesus fulfilling the Law makes it valid for us to continue to keep it is misunderstanding what is being said. He came to fulfill it, complete every jot and tittle of it and in doing so prove that He is the Messiah, as no man could keep all of the law except this one perfect Son of God. He finished it, now if we believe and rest in Him, we also fulfill the law because He did!!

Think about it what pleases God more?

Believing in the Finished works of what His Son did at the Cross, believing on Him, being born again and Holy Spirit filled and resting in His Son's finished works everyday of the week.

Or-

Keeping an Old Covenant physical law, dependent on our own works in order to prepare and keep all that is necessary to do or not do, that ends up being all about you and your works.

To me there is absolutely no contest!!

Sorry Stacy, I disagree with anyone that is making works mandatory in the guise of resting on a special day. No matter how good and righteous it sounds. Doing so makes it all about man and man's righteousness and that is not holy in any way! There is only one Holy One and that is Jesus Christ! The only way for people to be holy is to be in Christ and He in them!

I do agree about the evil pagan holidays that the world loves, and how this dishonors the Lord. But while on that subject let us think about this. You say Sunday is the day that pagans worship the Sun, and is therefore could not be the Lord's Day. Did not the pagans also steal the Sabbath of the Old Testament in their worship of the planet Saturn! Saturday is Saturn's Day to them, remember Saturnalia was their winter celebration that got turned into Christmas. Therefore, Saturday has been perverted, even more than Sunday!

IT IS NOT ABOUT A DAY!! IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS!!

I just had to comment on what you wrote as one who loves the Lord with all my heart, soul and mind, and with His help loving my neighbor as myself. I am born again and spirit filled and rest in Christ and His finished works everyday. The only good thing about me is Him. But, I do not keep Old Covenant laws, and see no need or command of my Lord to go backward to them.

It hurts me to see you make this a requirement of Salvation, or Justification, or Sanctification, because it just is not true, and it leads others astray. I had no choice but to speak up on this matter, it means as much to me as what you are saying means so much to you.

In His Love,

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Thank you all so much for your comments. I appreciate every single one of them.

Apparently I need to clarify one thing. I did not say even once that anything I can do or observe can save me outside of the blood of Christ. I am saved by grace through my faith in Christ period. I follow the commandments because my Lord tells me to, and I want to obey Him and show my love for Him. Again, Christ did it all; my works are simply a demonstration of my faith.

The statement I made regarding the Most High sanctifying and setting apart His people through their observance of the Sabbath comes from Ezekiel 20:12.

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know I am The Lord that sanctify them.

My intention was to reiterate that this is a sign between man and God, and it is a sign that sets us apart.

Again, we are not saved by works; Christ is the one and only Savior who finished it all. Our works just prove to the world Who saved us.

All praises to Christ, The Lord!

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

AMEN AND AMEN!

Well said Stacy. This is what most people do not understand or comprehend about the law. Very well said!

To KEEP His commandments requires a WILLING act of faith in order to DO what He says.

All praises to the Most High Ahayah.

Blessed Be His name

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Hi Stacy,

Finally getting a moment to catch up on replying.

Wow! You and Linda sure write and sound alike!! Are you related?

I am not against anyone making a personal choice to keep Saturday as a Sabbath, I just don't understand holding on to the shadow when the real is come. But that is up to you. And, certainly I am not saying if you make that choice you are not a born again Christian or not Holy spirit filled or any thing like that. I explained this already to you. I hope you understand what I am saying.

But one thing I would like an answer to is the question I asked above in regards to this statement you made:
****
And also, maybe it’s because the Most High specifically stated that the Sabbath would be a sign between God and man for sanctification, and the enemy wants to distort the truth and put his sign on our heads instead!"

end quote
****

Where in the New Testament does it say that Sabbath keeping is a sign between God and man for sanctification?? Where?

You gave me a quote from the Old Testament, that is not what I asked for. I would appreciate your answer from the New.

Thanks!!

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Hi again Stacy...

As to the sign that sets God's people apart being Sabbath keeping, this must mean that only Jews, who reject Christ, and SDA are the only true elect of God.

This Old Covenant law may have set pagans and God's people apart under the Old Covenant, but is CERTAINLY NOT TRUE under the New!

The Holy Spirit is the seal of God!! Not Sabbath keeping!! Don't lead people astray on this, as that is not a good thing!!

YSIC

Patti C.

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Hello again Patty. I think we simply do not understand one another. And this is where I just stand still.

May you be blessed sister.

Stacy

Re: Deception Rules the Earth; The Elect Must Know the Truth and be Set Apart, Part I

Dear Stacy,

I am sorry that we are misunderstanding each other, I know we have tried our best to make our positions clear. I am guilty of being of being a "pit bull" about this subject, as it something I am passionate about especially when I feel Holy Spirit inspired to keep defending this position. And, honestly I feel it is important for those who come here to see both sides of this issue.

I think being still is the best way to rest in Christ, as we get out of our own way and let Him work through us. Wise words.

I do know we agree about what matters most,beyond debates and discussions. Jesus is our Lord and we love Him deeply, and we want Him to be Lord of our lives so that we can love as He loved.

So let us rejoice in that, and know we both did our best to honor what we are being shown. Who knows how all this might have a positive effect in helping others to want to find out for themselves.

Blessings to you, too!

Patti C.