Hello all,

These four ways of looking at Bible Prophecy is like dealing with lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!

Here they are briefly defined:

Futurist: This view teaches that the events of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation chapters 4-22 will occur in the future.

Historicist: This view teaches that Revelation is a symbolic representation that presents the course of history from the apostle’s life through the end of the age.

Preterist: Preter, which means “past,” is derived from the Latin. There are two major views among preterists: full preterism and partial preterism. Both views believe that the prophecies of the Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Revelation were fulfilled in the first century with the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Idealist: According to this view, the events of Revelation are not tied to specific historical events. The imagery of the book symbolically presents the ongoing struggle throughout the ages of God against Satan and good against evil.

Honestly I had never before considered what "camp" I belong to until I listened to a "Preterist" give a study of Matthew 24. I thought what this man taught about how the New Covenant came and the Old faded away was the best teaching I had ever heard, and it answered some questions about what was fulfilled at the Cross. Because I liked this teaching and saw much truth in it, I was suddenly labeled a "Preterist". Labels do not sit well with me, so I decided to look into what a "Preterist" believes, and although I agree on some concepts, I totally disagree on others, So, I guess I am not a full "Preterist".

I then looked into the other three defined positions and found the same problem. I agreed with some of what each position teaches, but certainly not all. So what am I? I never knew that I was a woman without a definable category of how I see Bible prophecy, but I now find that I am. I joked about being a "Truthist", and had come to the conclusion that is truly the best label for me. As that is truly what I am most interested in.

While contemplating all this, I happened upon a wonderful article about Bible Prophecy and found that this fits what I am finding to be true. I believe there is a progression of fulfillment in regards to Bible prophecy. Yes, the New Covenant came with Christ, but it took 40 years for the Old to pass away. I believe there is a future coming of Christ, a future resurrection, and a future New heaven and earth. I also believe that Jesus is coming soon, and that Satan has been let loose for the final battle. 70AD was a type of fulfillment, just as Joshua, and David were a type of Christ.

I am probably not making much sense in explaining all this, and who knew it needed to be explained in the first place? I certainly did not until people started labeling me, and also because I noticed that a certain Pastor from another web site was criticizing Steven for putting "Preterist teachings" on this forum. This upsets me, and I feel that all this dividing and labeling has to stop! What is wrong with us when we have to pigeon hole people when sharing their search for truth, into some category, and then tear down that category? And on top of that, bring in all sorts of other teachers and preachers that fit that category and tear them down? Is this befitting the members of the Body of Christ? I think not!

I truly hope that everyone will read the following article and understand that most of us fit into what is being shared. There are very few cut and dried answers to all Bible Prophecy, but we should all agree that God is sovereign and in charge of all that occurs in history and its ultimate conclusion, and the importance of the study of prophecy and its edification for the body of Christ.

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FOR FAIR USE EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES

Link of article or video : www.baptistpillar.com/article_397.html


The Nature of Prophetic Fulfillment

It has long been recognized that Biblical prophecy is normally fulfilled not in a single event but in a series of events which bring the prophecy to it final culmination. Seldom is the answer one-to-one but one-to-one, two, three, four, and so on. In the unfolding of redemptive history the prophecy is seen to take on a wider or more detailed significance.

Older Bible teachers described this as "double" or "dual" fulfillment and as the "near view" and "far view" of prophecy. Interpreters today speak more in terms of sensus plenior, a phrase offered to describe the "fuller sense" seemingly given to certain OT prophecies as they are unfolded in the light of NT revelation.

Others would prefer to speak in terms of a "canonical process" which develops more fully and more specifically the original sense and intent of the prophecy. More popularly, interpreters speak of the "now and not yet" aspect of Biblical prophecy, emphasizing that a given prophesy may well come to realization now yet await its fuller manifestation later; its fulfillment is both now and not yet.

Arguments could be made for the precise accuracy of preferable terminology, but our point here is simply to notice that Biblical prophecy normally unfolds in a progressively fulfilling way. In the unfolding of redemptive history the prophecy is seen to take on a wider or more detailed significance.

Yes, there is the occasional one-to-one fulfillment. The Bethlehem prophecy (Mic. 5:2) provides one example. But it is generally more complex than this, and examples in the prophetic Word abound. The very first prophecy sets the stage. The Champion promised to defeat the tempter finds initial realization in the earthly ministry of Jesus and His casting out of demons (Mat. 12:28). By His casting out of demons, He Himself explains, Satan's kingdom is invaded and plundered. In Jesus God has come good on His promise to defeat the tempter.

But there is obviously more to it than that. And again Jesus Himself says so. In anticipation of His death He declares, "Now is the prince of this world cast out" (John 12 ). Here, in Jesus' death, Satan loses his head (cf. Heb. 2). Here the promise finds its fulfillment. Or does it? Writing to the Roman believers Paul declares that God will "crush Satan under your feet shortly" (Rom. 16:20). So we find the promise is fulfilled and "not yet" fulfilled. And of course Revelation 20 fills in the final details with Satan's bondage in the abyss and then finally being cast into the lake of fire forever. Here, at last, the prophecy is finally and fully fulfilled. But you see, the answer to the original promise was not one-to-one.

The fulfillment came in a succession of events which brought the promise to its full consummation.

This is the Bible's first prophecy. And it stands as the pattern of the fulfillment of so many others. Moses' prophecy of a prophet like him to come (Deut.18:15ff) surely finds its answer in the long succession of Israel's prophets (see E. J. Young, My Servants the Prophets). God came good on His promise to provide continued direction for the nation of Israel in her land. But of course the prophecy is fully realized in Christ, the Prophet par excellence, the Son, the true revelation of God (Heb. 1:1f).

The prophecies of the coming of the Messiah unfold similarly. They may not have known it beforehand, but it is clear that the Messiah's coming is a two-stage event. There is the first coming and the second. At the first the promise was realized, but not until the second is it consummated.

Indeed, the very promise of salvation is fulfilled "now" in Christ (Rom. 5:1) but still awaits the people of God. It is presently realized but "not yet" fully manifested.

Antichrist provides another example. The details of Dan.11 so graphically portray Antiochus Epiphanes that critical scholars insist that "Daniel" wrote after the fact. Of course we deny their conclusion, but the prophecy's fulfillment in Antiochus is obvious. But then Jesus speaks of this "abomination" as yet future (Mat. 24). As does Paul (2 Thes. 2) and, (so it would seem from the many thematic parallels) John (Rev. 13). And so the prophecy is fulfilled and yet is fulfilled again and is to be fulfilled still again, only more fully. But John tells us also that Antichrist "has come" (1 John 4). He is the false teachers who lead men astray.

So Antichrist "has come" and "will come." He is "now," and he is "not yet."

As I say, examples of this abound, even in many of the OT prophecies which are already fulfilled.

Prophecies of the destruction of great cities are fulfilled by the ruthless actions of some conqueror, and then again more fully by another.

The same is true in reference to the Kingdom. It came with the coming of Jesus. His Kingdom is "now." But He also taught us to pray, "Thy Kingdom come" (Mat. 6:10). He taught that the Kingdom was future (Mat. 7:21; 25:31ff, etc.). Paul and the other NT writers regularly spoke of Christ's Kingdom as future (e.g., 2 Tim. 4:1). The Kingdom, for Jesus and the apostles, was "now and not yet." Its fulfillment comes in stages.

All of history is in the minds of the Biblical writers divided into two ages this age and the age to come. The age to come is the time of outpouring of Messianic blessing, and in the first coming of Jesus that age dawned. In Christ we are they "upon whom the ends of the ages have come" (1 Cor.10:11). Yet while the writer to the Hebrews can speak of this time now as "these last days" (Heb. 1:1-2), Paul speaks of "the last days" as still future to him (2 Tim.3:1). There is both, the "now" and the "not yet," a present realization and a future manifestation.

In other words, the prophecy is progressively fulfilled. Nor is it a mere "dual" prophecy. It is rather that the "sooner" realization is of a piece with the full and final manifestation of it. The single prophecy finds a progressive unfolding in stages.

I should not need to belabor the point any longer. This is enough to see that this matter of progressive fulfillment is standard issue in Biblical prophecy. It is not the exception but the rule. And it cannot be ignored. This simply must be borne in mind when seeking to interpret the prophetic Word, lest we take a mere part for the whole. The interpreter must be careful to be comprehensive in his study before announcing "this is that." Only when the prophecy is "full" is it "fulfilled."

Due recognition of this principle is vital to accurate interpretation of the prophetic Word. Often it is the case that two sides of a prophetic debate, each with a part of the whole, make as though the whole were their "part." It's often so that neither side is wrong in what they are saying, except that they have only one half of the picture. But not until all the parts are together is there the whole. And again, we must not announce fulfillment until we are sure the prophecy has been filled.

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Reading this really helped me out in understanding why I did not fit the other categories, and why I saw valid points within them all. I now know which label I would put myself under, it would be Progressive Fulfillment, as it constitutes the fulfillment of prophecy the closest to how it has played out in all the rest of the Bible. Also, it unifies all that is good about each of the four categories without doing away with them, entirely.

I hope that Pastor that lurks on this site, in order to find more to attack our moderator with, also reads this. This man's pride and arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance, and he needs to rethink his eschatological views and stop leading people astray. But not only that, he needs to stop attacking others because they disagree with him, that is not Christ like and certainly should not be the actions of a Pastor, retired or not.

We are all in this together, so let us love one another and listen to what each follower of Christ has to say. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, because each position has something valid to convey, even if there is much to reject, there is always something to learn.

With love to all my brothers and sisters in Christ, even Pastor Bob, and others like him, as they need it most of all.

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

Hi Patti,

Well written article and commentary.

Mind if I shorten it up?

1. The Bible is the INERRANT WORD OF GOD.

2. Jesus is God's Son ( Jesus is God )

3. The HOLY SPIRIT will teach us all things ( not any ONE HUMAN person: except JESUS of course )

4. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

I AM a follower of JESUS CHRIST ( a sinner saved by GRACE lest anyone should boast in their own understanding )

So in a nutshell I'm an imperfect human( I have my good days and I have my baaad days haha...........a sheep of the GOOD SHEPHERD JESUS CHRIST.

Thanks for the awesome post!

God Bless

Steven
FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST

Hi Patti,

I had to chuckle at your definition of yourself because that is what I consider myself, "A Truthist". You weren't alone in your confusion of what is what and who is who.

After reading the article you provided, I must say I am now a "Progressive Truthist" Here are two paragraphs from it that pretty well says it.

Hi Patti,

Luke 6:36........Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


Your words demonstrate your mercy. One of your finest traits sister! You always come to the TRUTH! Great personal thought!


Respectfully,

YBIC
Michael

Dear Steven, Gerlinda and Michael,

Thank you all for your kind and encouraging words, and excellent additions to this post. So glad you liked it, as it seemed an important subject to get some clarity on, at least for myself.

Gerlinda, I liked your idea of being a Progressive truthist! That sounds like the best way to be, and I think most of us here are into learning truth and seeing its progression throughout the Bible and in our own understanding!

Michael, you are too kind and such an inspiring brother! Thank you!

And Steven, you are a Good Shepherd as moderator of this forum, allowing freedom for each to find out for themselves...awesome!

Thanks for the reminder of how you all have become like family to me! Made my day!

May the Lord continue to bless each of you and this precious site!

Patti C.