Hi Stacy...great to have you join the conversation! So nice to have all perspectives on this issue.

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Dear Linda,

This is really a very good conversation because we both see the absolute importance of finding out who Israel (God’s Chosen people) really are yet have the direct opposite conclusions. In this way we are presenting both sides of this, which is good. I have written much about this because it is the revelation that opened my eyes to the Truth, and it changes everything!! I know that you feel just as passionately about what you believe.

Before I go any further, I want to ask you a few questions to clarify some things. You said this:

******* “The Most High made it about "Two Nations/Nationalities” [that will war until the very end] - Jacob and Esau. One was dark brown [Negro] and the other Esau was red/Caucasian - the progenitor of the Caucasian race. If not, scripturally and historically PROVE IT!***********

Okay…Do you believe that Abraham was black? Do you believe that both Isaac and Rebekah were black? Esau and Jacob were twins so my question is how did they have one black child and one white or red child? (I do not see the different races of people as beginning with Jacob and Esau….but with Noah’s sons).

The differences between Jacob and Esau is not about "Nationalities"....it is about the "natural" (which comes first) vs the "spiritual" which follows the natural. It's all about the "natural, carnal mind" vs. the "spiritual mind", for which we all are working toward achieving.

That is the whole problem we are having, not seeing the difference between what is natural and what is spiritual and this is a major concept to grasp!!
The Bible tells us that Jesus is Israel!

Hosea 11:1

When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My Son.

Matthew 2:14, 15

And he arose and took the Child and His mother by night, and departed for Egypt; and was there until the death of Herod, that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, “Out of Egypt did I call My Son.”

As Jesus is the true Israel according to Scripture, He is also the true seed of Abraham for it is also written in the Scriptures:

Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. – Galatians 3:16

Thus there is only one true Israel, Jesus Christ, and none other; one redemptive plan of salvation throughout all history; one Gospel; one people of God –the Church, the Israel of God-by faith having been united to Jesus Christ, the true Israel and made heirs according to the promise of God.

For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. – 2 Corinthians. 1:20.

Mike Vinton has some powerful insights on this in regards to Israel of the flesh and Israel of the spirit and explaining the following Scriptures:
Phl 3:3

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

Piece of the article by Mike Vinson:

Link of article or video : http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/rev-7_4_8-who-are-the-144_000-part-1/


Being “of the [ physical] stock of Israel, of the [ physical] tribe of Benjamin or the tribe of Judah is “counted but dung” to the man of the spirit. Who then are “the children of God?” Who are “the children of promise?” Who now is Israel? Who now is a Jew? Who now is a Benjamite, or a member of any of the other tribes of Israel? Paul’s answer leaves no room for speculation:

Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

There it is, ” not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” What the spirit is teaching us is that being the physical seed of Abraham does not make one Abraham’s seed. Being a physical Jew or a physical Benjamite or being physically descended from any other “of all the tribes of Israel… is but dung.”

What then does make one “counted for the seed?”

There are two groups and two groups only, who are being saved. One group can be “counted,” and are said to number 144,000. The other group is said to be “innumerable.”

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rom 9:8 tells us who is “counted for the seed” of Abraham, but here is yet another way of answering that question.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

But how can this requirement of being “Abraham’s seed” be made to apply to a Gentile Roman, or a Gentile Ephesian or a Gentile Galatian? How can all these Gentile converts to Christ now be considered as Abraham’s one and only seed? Are Gentile converts to Christ now actually Biblically “counted” as Abraham’s only “promised son”, Abraham’s “one seed?” Are they really to now be considered “as Isaac was… the children of promise?” Are Gentiles actually considered by God, and by the scriptures of His Word, to be Israelites, and heirs of the promise made to Abraham? Is that what “the holy spirit, comparing spiritual with spiritual, teaches?” What do the scriptures teach?

Gal 4:28 Now we brethren [ Gentile Galatians], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye[ Gentile Ephesians] are no more strangers and foreigners [ to the commonwealth of Israel, verse 12], but fellowcitizens [ of Israel] with the saints, and of the household of God;

Does this make Paul a replacement theologian? Does this take the promise given to Abraham to make of Him a nation and a company of nations and give that promise only to those of both the Jewish and the Gentiles who are converts to Christ? Or does God now have two separate chosen or elect peoples; one according to the flesh, and another according to the spirit? No, God does not have two separate elect or chosen people. “He is NOT a Jew which is one outwardly…”

Did we not just read:

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Did we not just read the New Testament definition of what is and what “is not a Jew?” Did we not read that the Gentile Ephesian converts are those who “are called uncircumcision by that which is called circumcision in the flesh made by hands?” Did not the scriptures we just read teach us that those Ephesian Gentile converts to Christ were “in time PAST Gentiles” in the flesh, but they are now “made near by the blood of Christ,” and they are now a part of “the commonwealth of Israel?” How many phrases like, “the commonwealth of Israel… as Isaac was… counted for the seed… to whom pertaineth the promises…” all addressed to Gentile Christians, must we read before we simply acknowledge that “he is NOT a Jew that is one outwardly, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly?”

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It is interesting how the Lord is using us to show both sides of this issue and in so doing presenting the whole picture. This is important and I am glad to have such a worthy opponent in this discussion.

Agape Sis!

Patti C.

Hello Patti,

I will answer this, "Do I believe Abraham was black"...yes! "Do I believe Isaac and Rebecca was black"...yes! Beyond that, I will not do the research for you, because this is where the truth has to be determined by each individual, that has done their own research. This is to insure that you are not simply taking my word for it. This is where the winds of doctrine was birthed.

I can say, that Rebecca, was given the prophecy by the Most High about her son's and was told, two nations [nationalities] are in your womb. You can read the story in Gen 25. You can find Esau's blessing from his father Isaac in Gen 27. Esau's ancient hatred for his brother in Eze 35. His taking of Jacob's identity and land in Eze 35 & 36, and his demise for the vindictive ways he has treated his brother in Obadiah.

The bible alone has the answers, but there are many extra biblical books that give much support to the inerrancy of the scripture. I encourage ALL to take the journey, it is life changing, to say the least.

I can supply a list of books that will help greatly in your research though. This is at least a good thorough start, for there is much more, but one should be convinced with just the word of the Most High.

The Bible - 1611 KJV with the Apocrypha
The Book of Enoch
The Book of Jasher
The Book of Jubilees
From Babylon to Timbuktu
The Russian ICONS
Chosen People of the Caucasus
The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler

This information should help greatly in your search for understanding sister.

Love You Much!

Blessed Be His Name

Stacy,

Welcome and so glad to have you, not only reading but contributing. You posted an excellent, well thought out and Biblically based response to this issue of the importance of Israel. Is it just Spiritual? No! Is it just Physical? No! Which of the two, in the end, is of the most importance to God? It will be the result of who, in the whole human family of God, whether Jew or Gentile, has become Born-Again and One of His Own Body.
Thank you for the contribution. gerlinda

Gerlinda,

Amen to that! It is all about being Born Again!!

Patti C.

Hello Gerlinda, Patty, and all! It is so nice to meet all of you, so to speak!

I certainly cannot argue anything you have said Gerlinda in your response. We are and will be all one, and I cannot ever be thankful enough for His invitation to come into His own!

If there was one final thing I could say, I would just encourage us to not forget about physical Israel today, which seems to be the point that Linda is trying to make. They are still out there, scattered to the four corners of the earth, and they still matter. satan has worked hard to disregard them, destroy them, and "disappear" them from everything over time, and in many regards and with many "Christians" even, he has been successful. God has a remnant of these people, and He is going to redeem them, along with all of us who have been adopted as members of this nation as well. Acknowledging that Israel is still a physical people today simply acknowledges that His original chosen ones are still out there living the curses, and they are beginning to find their way back - just as the Word declares will happen. This should excite us exceedingly, as we know that our redemption, along with theirs, is very, very near -- as one! Furthermore, can you imagine what this means to the Most High God... His prodigal son, His wayward wife, is returning to Him!! This is huge and is the altogether culmination of His plan! When I think of being a part of the dry bones awakening and joining together with them in obedience to the Most High's laws and commandments as He directed and ordered so long ago (and that have been completely changed over time by man under the influence of satan), it does something in my very soul that I cannot explain -- I, Stacy the Gentile, am grafted in to the chosen nation of Israel, and I gladly walk with them in obedience to Him, thanking Christ all the more for offering me this and making the way for it to be possible. Yes, we are one with Israel, but Israel is still out there, and they are coming home!!!

I believe that we are all in agreement with much of our discussion (primarily our overall redemption as one body); the one missing piece seems to be acknowledging the physical people of Israel today and what it means for the future. The Most High clearly dileneates them throughout His word and even at the end of all things with the 144,000 (and then some). I think that in following Him, we must recognize them as well and understand the magnitude of their return to Him!

I hope this makes sense. This truth has been overwhelming to me -- as well as accepting that just about everything I've learned in "the church" as a child until about a year ago has not been true (and I am 50 years old!). "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" has new meaning to me now, and there is no oe behind this new meaning but the Most High!! May His name be praised forever more, as there is nothing more pure, more beautiful, and more life-changing than His perfect truth.

Much love to all of you!

Hello Linda,

I have to ask you, "If Isaac and Rebecca were Black, how is it that their twin sons came out Black and White?" There is nothing in the Word of God that indicates another father was involved in this conception.

They had the same parents, thus Essau, whom you say is Caucasian, cannot be a true fact. Essau represents the nation of Islam. Jacob represents the Nation of Israel.

The various Arab tribes that make up those that followed after the religion of Islam; are they white, black or brown? They are made up of various colors; mostly brown. And so it is with Jacob. Nothing has changed over all of these generations.

Essau was hated by God, even before his birth because Almighty God knew that he would leave his parents devotion to the God of their Grandfather, Abraham. Essau went off, with his pagan wife, settled the Red Mountains of Edom and served other gods. Jacob, although a scoundrel, did stay true to the God of His Father.

Common sense must be used in this issue along with the Biblical account.

gerlinda

Stacy,

You, a white Gentile, now of the Israelites and I, a white Jew, redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, here-by agree that natural Israel has a future fulfillment along with all the others of the human race, be they White, Brown, Black, Red or Yellow.

For goodness sake, who is it that calls out for their Messiah, "Blessed Is He That Comes in The Name of the Lord?" and just at the last minute, He will save those that called out to Him?

Thank you Stacy.
gerlinda

Hello Gerlinda,

I would like to recommend you read the information I gave to Patti in helping you also, do your own research. It is truly important for us to study and show ourselves approved. It is not difficult at all.

I know it will be JUST as hard and heart breaking for all the people who have been raised to believe they are someone they are not, at the hands of Satan through Esau. It is true that the people in Israel are not the people of the Most High. Once one can wrap their head around that fact alone, will be instrumental in facing the whole truth of His holy inspired word.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15

May the Most High Bless you Gerlinda,

Blessed Be His Name

Linda,

I did read it all; what you posted to Patti. We know it was the Illuminati that were behind the rebirth of Nation of Israel after more than 1900 years. They would never have been allowed to accomplish this unless Almighty God had not sanctioned it. We've discussed that before, right?

However, once that is accomplished, He will call them out of the north, south...

I know you believe, Linda, that Israel does not have the true Jews back in the land yet but how do you answer to the fact that the Ethiopians and other blacks, off-spring of Solomon & Sheba, are back in the land at this time. I wish you would answer these questions yourself instead of keeping on telling us that we must show ourselves to be approved. We, who do not agree with you, are reading our Bibles and doing our best to show ourselves approved.

As I have shared before, within Israel, there are many true Israelites of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. Then there are the Illuminati bunch who call themselves Jews but are the Synagogue of Satan. There are the Messianic Jews and finally the Secular Jews, plus the off-spring of Essau, the brother to Jacob. The Land is being restored as prophesied. It is so fruitful because it lay dormant for all those years that Israel did not allow the land to have it's Sabbath.

I really don't get it Linda. What is the truth? That all of Israel is of the Black people? Perhaps you think you have the truth but are being mis-led. Please consider, while it may be shocking to you, as you say; it is not the Truth.

I think I have to get off this subject because you do not address what is being said. It just keeps going around in circles. In the grand scheme of all that is happening to our earth, soon the locust to be turned loose, great catastrophes coming upon us, the waters being poisoned, the earth no longer to supply good fresh food, the revealing of the false prophet and the A/C, does this great truth you have learned about change anything?

We both know there is the Demonic Kingdom and the powers that be who want to destroy both Christian and Jews.

What do you want us to do with this Truth you speak about? Write to Rome, make reparations, turn our back on the fact that among the Jews killed in the Holocaust of WWII, there were no Blacks with the various shades of brown.

Do you see what I am saying in this letter? Where were the Black Jews during this great injustice done in Europe against them. Or, how about thousands that were killed in Russia?

As I've said before Linda, with Respect,
gerlinda

Dear Gerlinda,

Just as I had questions and as many as you do...I searched the scripture for the answers and they were explained very well. Yes, the truth is hard to swallow and I understand that it is very hard for you. As I did the research myself, I don't have to do it again for those that want to know truth. Seek it on your own as I have so encouraged everyone to do. A lot of the questions you have are answered right in His word, therefore any objections to the answers you can not accept, for one reason or another, will not be with me, but with the Most High.

You wanting me to answer these things for you is useless, it only perpetuates animosity. And I believe if you won't take the time to educate yourself on the truth...rest, and stay in the belief you have accepted as the truth. I have no problem with that, many will choose to go this route, it's Ok!

There is truly no love lost sister!

Blessings to you,

Blessed Be His Name

Dear Gerlinda

Thank you for asking the question I asked Linda about how Isaac and Rebekah had twins that were one black and one white. I really wanted that answered. I share your frustration in regards to understanding what truth Linda is trying to share, and think she needs to prove it Biblically and not make us try and figure out what this truth is. It does just go around in circles.

If it is all about Israel being black people then prove that and help us to see why this is so important, and how it relates to these end times. We do our own research for what we are trying to convey, why do we have to do research to prove what she is trying to convey?

I just wanted to let you know I appreciate what you said and feel the same way. Hopefully she will just come out and tell us what she wants us to know. Thanks for being so open and honest about this, it really helped me see that I am not alone it not catching on to what Linda so adamantly wants to share.

Bless you!

Patti C.

Dear Linda,

I am at a loss, and just want you to know that I agree with Gerlinda and really want you share what is so important, and if it is plainly there in Scripture, then get it down into a study and present it to all of us. I work hard on all the studies I do, and research a lot and always provide Biblical support it is time consuming and it is what the Holy Spirit is showing me. Why do I have to study something and read a list of books to just understand what you are trying to say? I don’t ask you to do that, I present the material and you read it and decide for yourself.

I would appreciate you answering the questions I ask…I would answer yours, and would like the same respect. Forgive me if I am just weary of playing this guessing game and truly do not have the time to spend reading books that I am not lead to read.

For now, unless you can provide the evidence to prove what you are trying to say, I am not interested in knowing about it. What I am learning and being shown is what I believe to be the Truth, and have no reason to search out another possibility unless I am given excellent, understandable information that would convince me to do so. So far you have not provided that. And I have watched many of the videos you present, and read everything you write.

So let us just love each other as sisters in Christ and move on in our own studies, and hope that those who are meant to get it will get it.

Bless you,

Patti C.

Dear Patti and Gerlinda,

As this has obviously become contentious for both of you, as I stated before, this is not about who agrees with who. If you do not comprehend what I stated in my original post alone with the videos, that fit excellently with what Stacy posted...this message of understanding, is obviously not for you. A good resting place for both of you so that your peace can be still, is to remember now as I have stated before...

"I am speaking to the wind"!

The Most High carries it to the heart He designed to receive it. My compelled mission AGAIN, is to help in the process of Awakening His People...Physical Israel.

Awaken Israel Awaken! Eze 37
Arise Israel Arise! Rom 11

The world needs to see the light dawning on you...Awaken!

With Respect and Love,

Blessed Be His Name