Dear Charles,

Great video!! Timely reminder to everyone how important love is!!I was surely blessed by it!

Thanks!!

YSIC,
Patti C.

Link:
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


Hi Charles, glad to see your doing well, and thanks for the great posts and video's. That being said I do strongly disagree with you concerning the " NIV " BIBLE.. There are more than 1600 verses taken out of the niv that are in the KJV, JUST A FEW EXAMPLES, 1)1 JOHN 5:7, The trinity verse is missing from the niv, also JOHN 3:16 the niv leaves out "begotten" and the list goes on and on.
This may not be as bad for a well versed bible student, but for new comers to the Lord they need the depth and every verse they can get until they start getting their truth from the Holy Spirit ( 1 JOHN 2:27 ).
THE BOOK OF REVELATION is very clear about adding or removing anything from the word of God.
Revelation 22:18-20 KJV VERSION
1 FOR I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book Deuteronomy chapter 28 )
19) And if any man shall TAKE AWAY ( as the niv, nasb, nkj, message ect.. do)
from the words of this book of this prophecy ( message ), God shall take away his part out of the book of Life, and out of the Holy city, and from the things that are written in this book.
20) He which testifieth ( says ) these things saith, Surely, I come quickly. Amen, Even so, come Lord Jesus.
I was a bit set back about your comments about not saying anything about you quoting from the niv ( non inspired version ) and had to put my 2 cents in for what its worth.

So lets always use the bible that gives the best interpretation and does not mislead new comers, and butchers Gods word, here, and on your video's.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rev 22:18-21

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
KJV
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Agape
Bob

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your kind words. I am sorry you were taken back by my views on the NIV. I do read, quote, and memorize strictly from the KJV and is my translation of choice. I do believe some other translations are dangerously adding or taking away from the Word. I do how ever believe the NIV is not one of those. I am always open to Truth though and will eat crow with a side dish of humble pie. Any examples you have would be received in Love. The two you did give I must address. The word begotten in the original Greek is "monogenace" and means only born, sole and the NIV says:

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The meaning is not taken away, it is just a different interpretation. Now for 1 John 5:7


KJV
Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

NIV
7 For there are three that testify:

This is close but the interpretation has the original meaning in tact. When Jesus was here He was accused of the same thing when He said:

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

These are not in the Old Testament, yet Jesus was not adding at all. There is a real good teaching that Steven introduced me to by Jacob Presch and it really brings out what John really meant in Revelation. Here's the link and I look forward to hearing your perspective.
Agape
Charles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQvRTRFouV0

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Col 4:6

6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
KJV



Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHz5wjz9FSc

LIVE LINK HERE, JUST CLICK

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rev 22:18-21

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
KJV
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Agape
Bob

Hi Bob,
I was hoping you would at least look at Jacobs teaching before responding. I am very familiar with Mikes views on the KJV and even the original Hebrew and Greek in the Strongs. I look forward to reasoning the Scripture with you after you view Jacobs teaching.
Agape
Charles

Charles, I have seen all of Jacobs teachings more than once that were posted here. If you honestly believe that the niv is not a misleading and a butchery of Gods word I would as you to pray that the Holy spirit would lead you to the truth.

God Bless, Bob

Yes, there is no doubt about it, the NIV is much easier to understand BUT, the question is, "Are we understanding the correct context?"

So glad we're talking about this because I was about to start a thread regarding this subject just before I read this because the title of this thread doesn't really match what everyone is talking about here.

The question I was going to ask is, why do I keep seeing that the KJV Bible is the only accurate translation?

I see a lot of people comparing other translations to the KJV and how verses are getting left out or mistranslated. If the starting point is the KJV of course you would expect other translations not to be worded the same, right? One could argue that the english used in the in the KJV is archaic and even some of the meanings of the words at that time don't mean the same thing today.

Instead of comparing a certain translation to the KJV, should it not rather be compared to the original Hebrew text and the Septuagint? Isn't that where the KJV came from? And isn't that where all other translations start from?

This can be posted here I guess...

God Bless...


Steven

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The Real Bible Version Issue Exposed

I am Christian (Acts 11:26, Acts 26:27-29,1Peter 4:16) KJV Bible
I believe in One God (Malachi 2:10, Mark 12:32, Romans 3:30,1Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6,1Timothy 2:5, James 2:19)
I believe Jesus(Yahweh is Salvation) [Joshua, Yeshu, Yeshua, Isa, Yahshua, Iesu, Iesous] Is God (Isaiah 9:6,John 10:30,John 20:28-29,Hebrews 1:1-14,1John 5:7-8,Revelation 1:8-19) KJV Bible
I believe Jesus Christ is The Head of the Church (Acts 4:10-12,1Corinthians 11:3, Ephesians 1:22,23, Ephesians 5:23,Colossians 1:17-19,Colossians 2:10-19) KJV Bible
I believe Jesus Christ is The High Priest (Hebrews 2:17, Hebrews 3:1, Hebrews 4:14-16, Hebrews 5:10, Hebrews 7:25-28, Hebrews 9:11-14)
I believe Jesus Christ entered through the veil into the Most Holy (Holiest of all) in Heaven once and for all when He sacrificed Himself on the tree and by His own blood are we saved (Hebrews 9:1-28, Hebrews 10:1-39)
I believe in the Priesthood of all true Christians (1Peter 2:9,10, Revelation 1:4-7)

I believe the Name of God is " I AM " [ Yahweh , Yahuah ] (Exodus 3:14)
I believe Jesus Christ is Yahweh El The Father Incarnate (Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 43:11, Matthew 1:20-23, Luke 1:32-35, John 1:1-4, John 14:6-9,1Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9,1John 5:7- KJV Bible
I believe Jesus Christ is The Holy Spirit Incarnate (Isaiah 9:6, Luke 1:35, John 4:24, John 14:15-21,1Corinthians 12:3-6,2Corinthians 3:17-18, Galatians 4:6-7, Colossians 2:9, Colossians 1:15-19,1Timothy 3:16,1John 5:7-8, Revelation 2:7) KJV Bible

I believe The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are One and the Same Person. [ Isaiah 9:6,Luke 1:35,John 4:24,John 14:15-21,1Corinthians 12:3-6,2Corinthians 3:17-18,Galatians 4:6-7,Colossians 2:9,Colossians 1:15-19,1Timothy 3:16,1John 5:7-8,Revelation 2:7,Isaiah 43:11,Matthew 1:20-23,Luke 1:32-35,John 1:1-4,John 14:6-9,1Timothy 3:16 ] KJV Bible

I believe everyone is predestined (Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9:8-21) KJV Bible
I believe if you bow down in worship of statues,images,icons,paintings,humans,an­gels,"Jesus","saints","Mary",the sun, moon, stars....,if you are an adulterer, homosexual, child abuser, molester, criminal, thief, liar, wizard, satanist or just living in ignorance, then you're a goner, and you will be tormented for eternity.(Exodus 20:1-7,Exodus 20:12-17,Exodus 23:1-9,Mark 9:42-50,1Corinthians 5:9-11,1Corinthians 6:9-10,Galatians 5:19-21,Revelation 20:9-15,Revelation 21:8 ) KJV Bible

I believe in keeping the Jewish Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3,Exodus 20:8-11,Isaiah 56:6-7,Matthew 12:8,Luke 23:55-56,Acts 13:14,Acts 16:13,Acts 17:2,Revelation 11:19) KJV Bible
I believe all foods are clean (Genesis 9:3-4, Mark 7:14-23, Acts 10:9-16, Colossians 2:16-19) KJV Bible

I believe in Scripture Alone (2Timothy 3:14-17), God Alone (1Corinthians 10:31,1Peter 4:11,Revelation 1:6,Ephesians 3:21,Revelation 7:12), Christ Alone (1Timothy 2:5-6,Colossians 1:13-18 ), Spirit Alone (Romans 8:1-7,Romans 8:14,1Corinthians 2:10,1Corinthians 3:16,1Corinthians 12:13,2Corinthians 3:17,Galatians 5:5,Ephesians 2:18 ), Love Alone (Romans 8:39,Romans 13:8,Galatians 5:6,Ephesians 1:4), Grace Alone (Ephesians 1:2-12), Faith Alone (Galatians 3:6-11) KJV Bible

I believe EL [God] created the heavens and the earth in six days (Genesis 1:1-31)
I believe The Creation took place approximately 6243 years ago (which I calculated using as a reference Genesis 5:1-32,Genesis 11:10-32,the years of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,+ Egyptian captivity 430 years (Exodus 12:40),+Judges of Israel 450 years (Acts 13:20),+Kings of Israel and Judah until the Babylonian captivity (Saul ~40 years,David 40 years (2Samuel 5:5), Solomon 40 years (1Kings 11:42),Rehoboam 17 years (1Kings 14:21),Abijam 3 years (1Kings 15:2),Asa 41 years (1Kings 15:10),Jehoshaphat 25 years (1Kings 22:42),Joram 8 years (2Kings 8:17),Ahaziah 1 year (2Kings 8:26),Athaliah 7 years (2Kings 11:3),Jehoash 40 years (2Kings 12:1),Amaziah 29 years (2Kings 14:2),Azariah 52 years (2Kings 15:2),Jotham 16 years (2Kings 15:33),Ahaz 16 years (2Kings 16:2),Hezekiah 29 years (2Kings 18:2),Manasseh 55 years (2Kings 21:1),Amon 2 years (2Kings 21:19),Josiah 31 years (2Kings 22:1),Jehoahaz 3 months (2Kings 23:31),Jehoiakim 11 years (2Kings 23:36),Jehoiachin 3 months (2Kings 24:8 ),+Babylonian captivity 70 years (Jeremiah 29:10),+Messianic prophecy 490 years (Daniel 9:24-25) a week 7 days,a day=a year (Numbers 14:34), +2012 years after Christ

I believe the pope of Rome is Antichrist (Daniel 7:7-27,2Thessalonians 2:1-12,2Peter 2:1-22,1John 2:18-25, Revelation 13:1-9) and Rome 'Mystery Babylon the Great the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth' (Revelation 17:1-18 ).I urge every true Christian to come out of her.(Revelation 18:1-8 ) KJV Bible

I believe in the Reign of Jesus Christ on Earth for 1000 years (Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-15)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Ybic
Steven

Gail Riplinger did some research on the differences between NIV and KJV


here is that study done infront of the prophecy club.

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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

With all due respect I'm going to start a separate thread

Greetings Steven and readers,
Thank you Gerlinda and walknbyfaith for your comments. I wand to start by saying I LOVE the KJV...it is the version I read, study, worship, sing songs from, etc..... We must be very careful though to think it's the only version we can read. As I sought The Lord the past few days I believe I've been given a simple but wise answer. The KJV is just a translation into the Kings English. We speak American English. Do you have any idea how different these two languages are? Google that and you'll be amazed at what words we take for granite as the right meaning compared to the Brits. If I lived in China, would I have to learn English before I could get an accurate version of The Bible? or any of the 6700 languages on Earth ( because you can not translate from KJV into these languages, you must use the original transcripts used when the KJV was translated. If you say the KJVis the only version we should read you are now for real adding to the Word of God and this is very dangerous. I'm going to copy and paste a good study. Enjoy.
Agape
Charles

KJV-Onlyism
Biblical or Cultic?

There are many today, often very sincere and well-meaning, who are seeking to promote a “double inspiration theory.” They teach that not only were the original manuscripts inspired by God, but also that the King James Bible translation has been miraculously preserved and translated with the result that it is absolutely perfect and flawless.

This view is stated clearly by one of its defenders: “We believe that the same God who gave the original Scriptures has the power and authority to PRESERVE them through the years of time and give them to us in our language—infallible and without possibility of error. … We believe that Almighty God through the power of the Holy Spirit has INSPIRED and PRESERVED (emphasis his) one and only one translation and version in the English language as the infallible and inerrant Holy Scriptures. That version is the King James Authorized Version of 1611” (written by Mark A. Underwood, president and founder of THE KING JAMES BIBLE MINISTRY, a ministry which was founded “for the purpose of promoting and defending the KJV of 1611 as the infallible and inspired Holy Scriptures”; the above quotations are from Underwood’s brochure in which he tells about his ministry and presents his statement of faith).

I, also, am “King James Only” in the sense that I use only the King James Bible in my reading and study of the Word. I love and honor and respect this translation of the Bible, and recognize that it has been greatly used of God since its first edition in 1611. I also recognize that there are serious problems involving the multitude of modern translations that are on the market today and that these problems must be faced and dealt with. But it is my position, and the historic position of Bible believers, that it is only the original manuscripts (autographs) which have been given by inspiration of God and that no translation, not even the revered KJV, is absolutely flawless and perfect. A translation is accurate only to the extent that it faithfully gives an accurate rendering of the original text. I am thankful that in general the KJV does this and does it very well. (Adapted from a 5/9/98 pastor’s e-mail.)

One can certainly appreciate the point that many modern translations are suspect because of the heterodoxy of the translators. Still, insisting on retreat to a less than perfect translation of 1611, as all translations must be (and in fact usually using a 1769 tenth edition of that translation, which alleviates some of the earlier nine editions’ imperfections), is still retreat, not an advance for the Kingdom of God. We can continue to appreciate and use “the KJV (tenth edition)” without making it into an idol that is as detestable to God as any other idol.

Background Information

The Old Testament (OT) was almost all originally written in Hebrew with a few portions in Aramaic. The New Testament (NT) was written in Greek. The OT: Before the Dead Sea Scrolls were found (1947-1956), the earliest hand copied manuscript of the Hebrew OT was dated about A.D. 900. The Dead Sea Scrolls provided manuscripts that were copied from 100 B.C. - A.D. 200. These manuscripts were about 1,000 years older than any previously known copies of Hebrew OT texts. The remarkable thing was that a comparison proved the amazing similarity of the texts. The only variation involved what scholars termed “incidental matters.” Today, there is little debate over the OT text.

The NT: There are three major sources to examine to try and determine the actual text of the original writings of the Greek New Testament. They are the Greek Manuscripts (about 5,300), the versions which are earlier translations (about 8,000) and Bible quotations in the writings of the early church fathers.

Greek manuscripts have two primary text-type families. The debate over the preferred (or non-corrupted, if you are KJV-Only) text centers around the Byzantine and the Alexandrian text-types. The Byzantine text-type was the Greek text used during the Byzantine period (A.D. 312-1453). The King James translation was based on a few (about 6) of these manuscripts. Those few manuscripts became the basis for what became known as the TEXTUS RECEPTUS or THE RECEIVED TEXT as presented in the KJV. The manuscripts that the KJV were based on were late, with none earlier than the 10th century (cf. THE KING JAMES VERSION DEBATE by D.A. Carson, pp. 35-36). The earliest Byzantine texts are from the 4th century. The Alexandrian text-type has fewer manuscripts but they are older. They were discovered after the translation of the KJV. Modern translations are based primarily on these older manuscripts.

Facts of the Matter

1. Of over 5,000 copies of the NT available (of which no two are identical), only 50 are complete NTs, of which the Textus Receptus is only one.

2. The Textus Receptus (TR) is NOT the NT the KJV translators used (for the 1611 KJV translation)—they used the Stephens of 1550. The TR did not even exist until after 1624. The TR was a combination of the Stephens and Beza texts. There are 200-300 variations between the Stephens text used by the KJV translators and the TR.

3. Other translations were used by the KJV translators is producing the 1611 edition—2.9% of the KJV is word-for-word from the 1525 Tyndale Bible. Overall, 61% of the KJV was taken from other available translations, including the Geneva Bible (see preface to the 1611 KJV).

4. The KJV used today is NOT the 1611 version, but the 10th edition! (which occurred about 150 years after 1611). Moreover, the KJV of 1611 included the Roman Catholic Apocrypha (also called “Deuterocanonical books”)! How could these “God-guided” translators (as KJV-Onlyites like to refer to them) have made such a grievous error? [The Apocrypha began to be omitted in approximately 1769, and the most common printings of the modern day rarely include them (except that all Roman Catholic Bibles still do). However the British coronation service requires, or required, an “unmutilated” edition.]

5. Modern translations of the Bible as a standard practice include textual notes to indicate to the reader where the Greek or Hebrew manuscripts contain variants. KJV-Only advocates, generally, dislike such footnotes, feeling that they can “confuse” the reader, and that they are, in fact, faith-destroying. However, the KJV contained 8,422 such marginal readings and notes when it was first published.

6. The translators of the 1611 edition, in the preface, stated the need for constant revision to update the language. Yet KJV-Onlyism people criticize the modern translations for doing this very thing. If the KJV is the “authorized” Bible, then KJV-Onlyites should have a real problem with what the translators themselves said.

7. A KJV-Only advocate, Texe Marrs, wrote the following letter on July 28, 1994, in response to receiving twenty-eight pages of documentation demonstrating the errors and misrepresentations in Gail Riplinger’s book, New Age Bible Versions: “Don’t write me again unless in sincere repentance. You are a devil, plain & simple. I understand well why Mrs. Riplinger does not respond to your ridiculous assertions. Why dignify the lying claims of a servant of Satan!” Is this the kind of “godliness” and “humility” we can expect from KJV-Only defenders?

8. It’s unfortunate that King James name is even on the KJV—he was an unsavory character.

Questions for KJV-Onlyism Advocates

To those who believe that the King James translation has been flawlessly preserved and miraculously inspired, we would ask the following questions (for more questions):

1. Which revision of the KJV is inspired and/or preserved, since it was revised ten times, the last being in 1850?

2. What Bible did God have for the English-speaking world prior to 1611? Was it also a perfect translation? If God was under obligation to make the King James Version perfect, then why would He leave English-speaking people for 1600 years without a translation they could rely on?

3. Where in the Bible does God guarantee that any translator of the Bible, anyone who copies the Bible, anyone who preached the Bible, or anyone who teaches the Bible, will be infallibly correct? [There is no such Scripture. The doctrine of infallibility of the translation in the King James is not a Bible doctrine; it is a manmade scheme by some partly ignorant and some partly influenced by bad motives.]

4. The KJV translators translated the Apocrypha and included these books in the original 1611 edition. If the KJV translation was inspired, does this mean that the Apocrypha is inspired by God also? And if so, why was the Apocrypha removed from later editions?

5. If God gave the English-speaking world an inspired translation, did He also give an inspired translation in the other languages (French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, etc.)? If so, where is it? If not, why not? [If God has obligated Himself, as some fanatics say, to make one translation in English, that is, the King James Version, perfectly translated without error, then would not God be obligated to furnish such a translation in every other language also? What are those translations?]

6. Why did the KJV translators use marginal notes showing alternate translation possibilities and showing variant manuscript readings?

7. If the KJV translators were inspired of God in their work, why did they not know this and why did they not mention this in their introduction, “The Translators to the Reader”? Instead, why did they humbly acknowledge their own shortcomings and imperfections as Bible translators? If the KJV was perfect, why did the translators expect that others would one day make their 1611 Bible into an even better one?

8. When there is a difference between the Textus Receptus (the “Received Text”) and the KJV translation, why do you favor the KJV and reject the Textus Receptus?

9. When there is a difference between the Majority Text and the KJV translation, why do you favor the KJV and reject the Majority Text?

10. Did our Pilgrim fathers have the wrong Bible with them when they brought the Geneva Bible with them to North America?

11. If the KJV differs or varies from the original Greek text, should we correct the English by making it agree with the Greek or should we correct the Greek by making it agree with the English?

12. When was the KJV “given by inspiration by God”? In 1611 or in one of the years when major/minor revisions took place?—in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, or 1850?

13. Was the original Greek lost after 1611? If not, where are we to find it? It cannot be the Textus Receptus, because there are many places where the KJV differs from the Textus Receptus. It cannot be the Majority Text because there are many places where the KJV differs from the Majority Text.

14. Where does the Bible teach that God will perfectly preserve His Word in the form of one and only one seventeenth-century English translation?

15. Should we condemn Tyndale’s translation (1525), Coverdale’s translation (1535), the Great Bible (1539), or the Geneva Bible (1560—the Bible of the Pilgrims), because these English Bibles varied slightly from the KJV? And if so, why did the “inspired” translators use these translations in their own readings?

16. If the KJV can “correct” the inspired originals, does this mean that the Hebrew and Greek originally “breathed out by God” was in need of correction and improvement? How can the inspired, infallible originals need correcting or improving?

17. Why did the Lord Jesus and the Apostles make use of and quote from the Septuagint translation (ancient Greek translation of the OT), even though the Septuagint differed from the original Hebrew in places and was certainly not a perfect translation?

18. Since no two manuscripts of the Greek New Testament have been found to be exactly alike, which manuscript is it that has been perfectly preserved and perfectly reflects the original?

19. F.H.A. Scrivener published a Greek New Testament that was made to reflect what the KJV says. The 1976 Trinitarian Bible Society Greek New Testament followed the text of Scrivener and claimed to be the Greek text behind the KJV. Why is it that the KJV differs from these two Greek editions in certain places? [For example, in Acts 19:20, where the Greek editions have “Lord” but the KJV has “God.”]

20. King James Only advocates frequently refer to the “Textus Receptus” (TR, Text Received) and the work of the Roman Catholic monk Erasmus (ca. 1466-1536) as the only correct Greek text of the New Testament. Were the compilers of the Textus Receptus (Erasmus, Stephanus, etc.) inspired by God in their work and miraculously kept from error? But Erasmus revised the Greek text four times (and the KJV translators did not use his last edition). Which is the correct, inspired text?

21. For 150 years Wycliffe’s translation was the only complete English translation in use. He completed his translation about 1382. It was not translated from the original languages but from the Latin Vulgate. Wycliffe’s translation varied from the KJV in many places. Should Wycliffe’s Bible be condemned or did it serve a good purpose? Was it helpful or hurtful?

22. Luther translated the Greek New Testament into the German language. Was his translation a perfect translation? Was it blessed of God and useful to the German people? Was it of the devil or of God?

23. Was Tyndale’s Bible a good translation? Was Tyndale guided by God any less than the KJV translators? It has been estimated that one-third of the King James Version is worded as Tyndale had it, and that even in the remaining two-thirds, the general literary structure set by Tyndale has been retained. Some scholars have said that ninety per cent of Tyndale is reproduced in the King James Version of the New Testament. Thus, the KJV translators were greatly indebted to Tyndale and yet they recognized that even his work was in need of revision and correcting. Did they not also recognize that their work might also be improved upon?

24. The Geneva Bible was the translation used by Shakespeare, John Bunyan, the Puritans in England, and Oliver Cromwell, as well as the Pilgrim fathers. It was the Bible that was brought to America on the Mayflower. Even the address from “The Translators to the Reader,” which is prefaced to the Authorized Version of 1611, took its quotations of the Scripture from the Geneva Bible. Was this Bible a corrupted Bible? Was it used of God? Was it hurtful or helpful to the cause of Christ? Did it make people wise unto salvation? Was it used effectively in building up God’s people in the most holy faith?

25. If God guided the KJV translators to translate a perfect Bible, did He also guide them to translate an imperfect and uninspired Apocrypha? Were the Old and New Testaments translated in the Spirit and the Apocrypha translated in the flesh?

26. Why were italics employed by the KJV translators in 1 John 2:23? [The italics were not employed, as usual, to mark a supplement, but to show that the words were regarded as suspicious. Stephanus excluded the clause but had a reference to it in the margin; Beza admits it without hesitation]. Do the italics indicate that the KJV translators were uncertain as to whether or not this clause was part of the original text?

27. Why were there 35 textual notes given in the margin of the King James Bible? [Examples: Matthew 26:26—“Many Greek copies have…” Luke 10:22—“Many ancient copies add these words…” Luke 17:36—“This verse is wanting in most of the Greek copies” Acts 25:6—“Or as some copies read, no more than eight or ten days.”

28. Was the KJV correct in following the Latin Vulgate in Revelation 22:19 (“book of life”), even though most Greek manuscripts have “tree of life”? Should the Latin be preferred over the Greek?

29. The Greek text underlying the King James Version agrees in 81 places with Beza’s Greek edition against Stephen’s Greek edition, and it agrees in about 21 places with Stephen’s Greek edition against Beza’s Greek edition, and in 29 places they agree with neither. In light of this, which Greek edition can we say has been divinely and perfectly preserved?

30. Blayney’s edition of the KJV (1769) became the standard form of the version and is unto this day, but his edition differs from the 1611 edition in about 75,000 minor details. Which edition of the KJV (Blayney’s or the original) is the perfect, flawless Bible? If the original 1611 Bible that the KJV translators produced was perfect, does this mean that our present KJV edition (based on Blayney’s edition) is flawed in about 75,000 details?

In Their Own Words

As cited earlier in this report, the King James translators did NOT think they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to produce an infallible translation which was to be the only English Bible that God would ever use to preserve His Word.

In fact, in the preface to the 1611 version (the Preface and the Apocrypha which they translated have both been omitted from most copies of the KJV today), they clearly disclaim that their translation was the only Word of God. There were already several English translations in existence and being used in England, America, and other countries. Some of these were Wycliffe (1380), Tyndale (1525-30), Coverdale (1535), Matthew’s Bible (1537), Great Bible (1540), Geneva Bible (1560), and Bishop’s Bible (1568).

In the preface titled, “The Translators to The Reader,” was written:

“... We do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest [most common, lowest quality] translation of the Bible in English … containeth the Word of God, nay, is the Word of God. … We are so far off from condemning any of their labors that prevailed before us [previous translators of previous versions] in this kind, either in this land or beyond sea … that we acknowledge them to have been raised up of God, for the building and furnishing of his Church, and that they deserve to be had of us and of posterity in everlasting remembrance. … Truly (good Christian reader) we never thought from the beginning that we should need to make a new translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one … but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principle good one …”

The 1611 original had numerous margin notes that offer different possible translations of words and phrases. The translators wrote in the preface:

“Some peradventure would have no variety of senses to be set in the margin, less the authority of the Scriptures for deciding of controversies by that show of uncertainty, should somewhat be shaken. But we hold their judgment not to be so sound in this point. … It hath pleased God in his divine providence, here and there to scatter words and sentences of that difficulty and doubtfulness. … Variety of translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diversity of signification and sense in the margin, where the text is not so clear, must needs do good, yea, is necessary, as we are persuaded. …We have not tied ourselves to a uniformity of phrasing, or to an identity of words, as some peradventure would wish that we had done. …Why should we be in bondage to them [words or syllables] if we may be free, use one precisely when we may use another no less fit, as commodiously? …We have … avoided the scrupulosity of the Puritans.”

Just one of many things to ponder as well


http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/m-m.html

Let the HOLY SPIRIT teach you all things.

I found the videos very interesting too!

Any thoughts on the videos?

God Bless

Steven

Hi Charles,

I have spent nearly the whole of the day studying this issue. Your article is very good and has much merit to it, especially in the argument that the people of other parts of the Bible don't get the KJV but use Bible translated into their own languages, if so blessed. Those that do not receive the Word of God have been given the knowledge of His existence right within each heart and are judge upon what each does with that "Inner Knowledge" of His existence.

Here is where we get to splitting hairs. For the English speaking people who have this gift though "imperfect" version of the KJV need to really compare the total context and are left with the evidence that much is left out of modern versions such as the New International Version, which I agree, is so much easier to read. Look at just these comparison that I chose to copy below:

1. One vital thing we must do is continue to do His commandments, right? That is left out in the NIV. Thus many believe they can just ride on the laurels of being saved and give no thought to keeping all 10 of His Commandments.

2. Another disturbing thing to me is that the reader of the NIV is left with not even knowing who it was that fell from heaven because it does not name Lucifer but leaves the impression that it is Jesus that fell from Heaven....either this is a very, very serious neglect by the translators or a deliberate attempt to under-score the rebellion by Satan that led to his fall from Heaven taking 1/3 of the angels with him.

3. As someone who was shocked when I learned the truth about the Fallen Angels having sexual relations with the daughters of men and producing off-spring that we know today, are the very one bringing about the New World Order for their god, Lucifer, it blew me away when I saw that the Son of God was referred to as a son of the gods, when the four were seen walking about in the fire with Daniel and his friends. That is Blasphemy, isn't it Charles? This can't just be a mere thing of over-looking the facts but a slick move to demean the deity of Jesus Christ..

Charles, I have had this same debate over Bible version with myself for years but knowing this now, I am left to chose the better version that gives a more complete truth to God's Word. No, it sure isn't perfect but is the better choice. I will just have to get by the Thee and Thou and gain the most complete understanding.

Thank you for your contribution.

Gerlinda

Here are the actual Bible Quotes:

THANK YOU MUCH STEVEN FOR THIS COMPARISON OF THE DIFFERENCES IN THE TWO VERSIONS OF THE KING JAMES AND NEW INTERNATIONAL. I'VE READ AND WATCHED VIDEOS REGARDING THIS SUBJECT BUT TODAY, THIS PARTICULAR LESSON WAS JUST THE THING THAT CONVINCED ME THAT, DESPITE THE KINGS OWN HUMAN FAULTS AND EVEN ASSICIATIONS WITH THE VATICAN, IT DID GIVE THE BEST THAT WE, AS ENGLISH SPEAKING PEOPLE HAVE TO READ AND GROW IN GOD'S HOLY WORD.

GERLINDA

Quote:
Isaiah 14:12, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" KJV

Isaiah 14:12, "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!" NIV
If we look in the NIV, we will never know anything about Lucifer, because this term does not appear on its pages. The NIV changes Lucifer's name to "morning star." But this is one of the blessed titles given to our Lord Christ Jesus!
End Quote


Hello Gelinda, that seems to be right, I don't know if the NIV is purposefully wrong or just some bad translations though
the Hebrew word that is used for lucifer is "heylel" and it means bright like the morning star

Jesus - the bright and morning star
lucifer - (in the sense of brightness); the morning star

and then says "son of the morning!"
so "heylel" means, not the morning star, but is bright like the morning star, and goes on to say the son of the morning
perhaps, lucifer was the Word's first creation, the first and brightest of the angels.

H1966
הילל
hêylêl
hay-lale'
From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.

Greetings Steven and readers,
I checked the thread before starting to respond and saw Gerlindas post, so I'll respond to Gerlinda at the end after Stevens question. You asked if I had any thoughts on the videos. I would also like to know if you have any thoughts on my post " KJV- Onlyism Biblical or Cultic" There were 8 Facts but I was wondering if anyone could answer just half of the questions......thats to much maybe a third...... no just five......how about just one. I'm not trying to be sarcastic with the Abraham bartering impersonation. But seriously I couldn't find fault with any of it. Now as for the videos. I went right to the largest one first call the Satanic NIV. I could hardly believe I could have been so duped. I really sought The Lord on this issue and believed He gave me an answer with the interpretations into other languages. Then I heard The Holy Spirit say "check the facts" I assumed she was telling the truth. At minute marker 1:37 she talks about women worshiping something, then she says the caption under the magazine article said "heart of the beast" This is when alarms started going off in my head because I've had over to 50 newspaper articles, tv, and radio broadcasts about me personally and I can honestly say not a single one....not ONE was 100% correct. There was error in each and every one.

She goes on to say if you call the NIV they'll deny everything......well of coarse they denied it....it was a lie. At marker 139.01 she compares 17 Scriptures NIV vs KJV She say the NIV changed the word HIM to the ONE this is not true. I personally looked them up. In her defense she looped the NASB with the NIV so at best this is a half truth....or half lie..because the NIV didn't change it.

Now marker 142.06 she gives 5 scriptures that she says the NIV changed the word cornerstone to capstone ......NOT TRUE....A BOLD FACE LIE...AGAIN

Now marker 143.36 She gives this heart rendering speach on how hard it would be to evangelize the world with only 200 words of Scripture. This is the number she says copy right infringements limit anyone from using over 200 words of the NIV. I opened an NIV and yes there are copy right infringement rules, but it's not 200 words....it's 500 verses (estimated equivalent to 25% of entire Bible) it goes on to say "when quotations are used from the NIV in non-saleable media such as church bulletins, posters, transparencies, orders of service, or similar media...a complete copyright notice is NOT required, but the initials (NIV) must appear at the end of each quotation. This is just a blatant lie she's telling

Now Marker 148.55 Now she peppers this kind of stuff in. She gives 5 examples of where the NIV changes the word unbelief to disobedience and it's true, but she fail to inform the viewer that in each of those verses the original Greek according to Strong's is disobedience.

I was the number one witness in one of the largest Federal trials in Central Illinois since 1922 and I learned a few things about a credible witness. The main thing I learned was if you get caught telling just one lie.....all your testimony is worthless. I can't even count how many lies and half truths, and manipulations I viewed in less than 10 minutes. I stopped watching at 150. I can't believe no one has checked her facts. OK moving on.

Gerlinda thank you for your kind reply. I do want to point out that the NIV is translated from the same original manuscripts as the KJV and the original Hebrew for Lucifer is Morning Star. This is a great example of why it's so important to search out the Scriptures that we may know the Spirit of the Word and not just the letter. Satan moves to and fro as a roaring lion but Jesus is the Lion of Judah.

I can not stress enough that my choice is The KJV. I didn't even look at another translation for over 15 years after I got saved and it will always be my favorite. I believe part of that Love is because it does have a Shakespearean slant with all the thee's thou's, and thus's and The Holy Spirit interprets that for us and we make a connection with The Lord when He does. Isn't that what we all seek is to make that connection. The Lord is so wise that He's allowed these other translations to come forth in a time of history that the laymen can search the original text for the true meaning and this stops us from being deceived.....because we can search it ourselves. Don't get me wrong, there are versions I won't even pick up but the NIV is just the American version of the Scriptures and if the Lord tarries there might be a version written in e-bonics if a majority of the
population speaks it. There are 6700 languages we should have a translation for each or figure out how to teach the whole world English. I want to apologize if my tongue was to sharp.
Agape
Charles

Hi Charles,

If you stress you use the KJV why are you arguing against it?

Now about your comment about KJV and occultic....

When you are given the more perfect WORD what would you choose? ( this is rhetorical )

I have studied many different versions but have found from studying and prayer the KJV is the closet to the scripture that we have in the English language

If you want to defend the NIV that is your choice.

I will have NOTHING to do with the NIV.


Thanks for a lively post and thread.

God Bless

Steven

Hi Gerlinda,

Thanks for your comments on the KJV videos.


It's healthy to study the scriptures and to learn everyday!

I once believe in a 7 year pre tribulation rapture I am not above learning and enjoy studying each topic that God puts on my heart and shows me to study.



I used to believe in a Christmas tree , santa claus and the easter bunny too! ( pagan worship )

I even thought the star of david ( occultic ) was a symbol of Israel too!

God Bless

Steven

Study to shew thyself approved.