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WHEN WILL SATAN BE CAST OUT OF HEAVEN ?




The Book of Revelation is very clear about this BY THE NUMBERS:




Rev 12:6 "the woman fled into the wilderness for 1,260 days" THIS HAS NOT YET HAPPENED - IT IS STILL FUTURE !




Rev 12:7 "war broke out in heaven"




Rev 12;8 "the dragon did not prevail"




Rev 12;9 "the dragon was cast out"




Rev 12:10 "the rapture occurs"




Rev 12:11 "they, the Church, overcame by the blood of the Lamb"




Rev 12:12 "the raptured Church is now rejoicing and dwelling in heaven"




Rev 12:13 "the devil with great wrath is now dwelling on earth"




Rev 12:14 "the woman is protected from Satan for 1,260 days"




SATAN HAS NOT YET BEEN CAST DOWN TO EARTH. It is "spirit of lawlessness ( Satan) which is already at work on the earth" NOT SATAN HIMSELF !




At the present time it is BOTH the Holy Spirit AND the spirit of Satan which are at work among men on earth. BOTH Jesus and Satan now reside in heaven until the time comes when Michael casts him down.




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist for the Lord

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Ybic
Steven

I do believe this is the case, here is what Paul says:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
12 [For] Our ·fight [conflict; struggle] is not against ·people on earth [L?flesh and blood] but against the rulers and authorities and the ·powers [or cosmic powers/rulers] of this ·world’s darkness [L?darkness], against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly ·world [realm; places].

In the KJV we note the word "places" is in italics, meaning it is not actually from the text; the word "high" is the same as the word "heaven" which is "ouranos" and is the same "ouranos" as at Rev 12; so we see here Paul clearly stating we are struggling against wicked spirits in heaven, the "high places" being the places of worship; so Satan is still in the heavenlies, the high places, still access to the throne, still a place found for him, still accusing.

So what is your response to this passage and its implications to what you're espousing here? If Satan has been cast out of heaven, what is Paul meaning here? Where is the wickedness? What does this mean, what is Paul saying? This question pretty much founds the rest of the teaching so might as well get by this before going on to the article proper.



Why would it seem impossible? Does the book of Job seem impossible?



This is not "plainly saying Satan was cast out of heaven" this is plainly saying that "the prince of the world will be cast out"; the "prince of the world" could be many things- it could mean "Satan", sure- but it doesn't "plainly" say "Satan"; maybe it means the Gentile rule over the kingdom of Israel, maybe it means Moses and the law, maybe it means Jesus Himself being "cast out" at the crucifixion- and moreso, why are you saying "cast out" means "cast out of heaven" and not "cast out of the world"?



This says nothing about Satan being cast out of heaven. It means Satan is now under the authority of Jesus and Jesus is the One saying "Whence comest thou Satan?"

Wow! Double teamed! Ha!

Okay…Brothers Bruce and John, I am going to answer both at one time, and hope I cover both of your questions.


It is obvious that we disagree about a great number of things, and I guess that makes for well-balanced discussions. First off (Bruce) I do not believe the Book of Revelation goes by the numbers. In fact I do not know of any Bible scholars that see it that way, but maybe you do and could share who, other than you, they are.

As to the woman fleeing into the wilderness…that was fulfilled in 70 AD…but, I am not saying there is not a future fulfillment as well. As I see there are many double fulfillments in the Word of God. I also do not believe in a future 1,000 year millennium, and have covered that subject a multitude of times.

What is most important is what Christ did by bringing in the Kingdom of God and He now rules in Heaven…He cast Satan down at the Cross. Since the understanding of the “heavens” is actually a dimensional thing…Satan could have been cast down to another dimension….there is much good study on the “fourth kingdom that could tie into all this. I do not believe Satan has access to the Throne of God like he did in Job’s day, and to think he does is to deny what Christ did at the Cross.

Jesus has the keys to hell and death not Satan. It is man who is at fault here. By not seeing what Christ did, they give Satan his power…man worships Satan instead of God…in high places on alters built to false gods. So, Bruce, this is another thing that I see as having been fulfilled at the Cross…the binding of Satan.

Satan was defeated…it was finished…now Satan is under the rule of Jesus and can only do what Jesus allows. But, he will be let loose, for a short time and gather his armies for the final battle…which I believe is happening right now.

I think the biggest issue here is that you both see a future 1000 millennium…other than that I respect your understanding of these issues, but do not agree. What I put forth is what the Holy Spirit is showing me…and that needs to be respected as well.

I get the feeling that neither of you will agree with me on this, so thanks for commenting, but nothing either one of you said gives me reason to change my beliefs on any of these issues. Therefore, let us respectfully agree to disagree.

Your Sister in Christ,

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

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Hi Patti C,




Do you ALSO DISAGREE with the following Holy Scripture, which God authored in His infinite wisdom ?




1 Timothy 2:11-14

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman TO TEACH or to have authority over a man, BUT TO BE IN SILENCE. ......but the woman, being deceived, fell into transgression."




YBIC,




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist for the Lord

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

Bruce...

This is a forum...this is not a church...I have a right to speak.

You would think that okay if I agreed with you, but this seems to be your ace in the hole for when I don't.

We already did this dance...I am not going there again. Enough He said she said banter.

I totally agree with Scripture...I just do not agree with your interpretation of it. We all have that right, so accept it and move on.

I am done trying to discuss anything with you, you just cannot do it respectfully and I am finished trying to explain myself so you can banter about it...I have much better things to do, and hopefully you do too.

I thank God for all the wonderful women and men on this site who somehow are able to speak and disagree without getting holier than thou, and insisting everyone believe what they share.

Best Wishes Bruce, but I am done responding to you. Amen!

Patti C.

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RE: MY LAST RESPONSE TO Patti C.........







God will have the LAST WORD in all matters concerning His Word. I do not judge, His Word will be the judge.







YBIC,




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

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IS THE 'RAPTURE BIBLE PROPHECY FORUM' A CHURCH IN THE EYES OF GOD ?







Matthew 18:20

"For where two or three are GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, I am there in the midst of them."







According to Your Infallible Word, come Lord Jesus !




Bruce Warner, Scripturalist for the Lord

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

I'm sure you're being facetious here, but for the record I'm not agreeing with anything else being said by any other people making comments, their words are their words. I comment on the post because I think the information merits comment- from my point of view this is a good thing.



No doubt. We could cite much scripture to testify this fact.



Okay why are you saying this? What scripture is teaching you this? I presume you're still meaning to say "cast Satan down from heaven at the Cross"?



It's the mind: heaven is the realm of the mind, the kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of knowledge; the treasures of heaven are wisdom and understanding: the war in heaven is a warring in the mind: and the fact that there are still people struggling in their minds with the Word of God tells me plainly that Satan is not cast out of heaven. The fact that the Temple of God is continually profaned by the corruptible doctrines of men shows me plainly that Satan is not cast out of heaven. This doesn't happen in scripture until the Revelation, and as we touched in another thread, good luck citing scripture to establish "it was already fulfilled" doctrines.



Okay and what scripture makes you question that this has changed?



That's a strong accusation- on what grounds are you making it?



No doubt. Scripture testifies to this.



Why would I not? It's according to the Word of God.



Bear in mind I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs, just guarding the Way, as it were.

Hi John,

Yes, I was joking…Glad you at least considered that as a possibility.
Of course your words are yours and I appreciate that. I am so busy working on other things that I hope you understand that to condense 10 studies on the millennium into a few short sentences is not something that would not do them justice, and just invite a bunch more questions.

So I am not going to address that with you here, please feel free to read my studies on this issue as they can all be found on this site. After reading it would be wonderful for you to take the time to prove, biblically, that there is a future millennium, I do not think that is possible, but certainly willing to consider your arguments for it. Also there is a really good book by Joe Ortiz called ‘The End-Times Passover” that has a chapter or two about this subject, and this book is also available on this site.

The “Prince of this world” is Satan…also known as the prince of the air…which is what I get from what you said about the mind…air. I agree with you that we can take all this as an individual inside battle that occurs for each person…but it happens on all levels, in hearts, minds, religion, society, and in the world.

I believe when Jesus says in Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

That is exactly what happened…Jesus did not say will fall in 2000 years from now!!

Remember, you are the one who needed to hear Satan referred to by name and will not settle for prince of this world.

If you believe that Satan was not bound at the cross, then please explain how Jesus defeated him? Are you saying nothing changed in that regard, and that Satan just had free reign to continue as before the Cross?

Quote from study:

"Rev. 12:10 further says: "For the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down." Because of Jesus' sacrifice, Satan can no longer accuse men of deserving the death penalty. That is what Romans 8 says: "If God is for us, who can be against us?... Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies... It is Christ who died... who also makes intercession for us" (31-34). Satan is no longer before God to accuse us! Remember Job? Jesus is now before God to intercede for us! Hallelujah!

Calvary was not defeat. Calvary was victory! Jesus was lifted up. Satan was cast out. The two events are inseparable. It is impossible to interpret Revelation 20 correctly if we ignore the great victory that Jesus has already won over Satan."

That is what I believe.

I am not trying to change your beliefs either…just get at the truth.
We are on the same side…fellow believers in our glorious Savior.

I look forward to commenting on your studies into these issues.

Thanks!

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!!

Patti C.

Look at this:

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Is there more than one Satan? Who are these people? Who crucified the Lord of glory? Are you sure Jesus isn't talking about an actual flesh and blood man when He said that about the judgment of the prince of this world? You're sure Jesus isn't talking about someone like the chief priest? What are we meaning when we say "Satan" anyway?

Moreover, even if we say "Okay this is Satan"- "cast out" doesn't say "cast out of heaven" so it looks to be saying "cast out of this world"; the point being that this passage isn't supporting "Satan was cast out of heaven", it isn't saying it at all.



This verse however is saying it. So either the passage in the Revelation about Satan being cast out of heaven is symbolic history of this event right here (not the crucifixion as you earlier proposed, but this event right here of the sending out of the disciples); or both Jesus and the passage in the Revelation are prophesying of the same future event. I believe the latter is the case: not only is Jesus "The Prophet" but everything He is doing/saying is prophetic, moreso here as He says "I beheld" which is a specific prophetic utterance, used only elsewhere in the NT in the Revelation:

Re 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne
Re 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels
Re 6:5 And I beheld, and lo a black horse
Re 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal
Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude
Re 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven
Re 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth

Similarily:

Eze 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures
Eze 8:2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire
Eze 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them
Da 7:4 I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked
Da 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard
Da 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit
Da 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake
Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them

Lu 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

What is going on here is that the disciples are coming back with the initial results of what is happening and Jesus is prophesying the end results of what is happening. The disciples are saying "We saw the beginning of it" and Jesus is saying "I saw the ending of it"

And again, Paul also clearly teaching me we're struggling against evil in the heavenly places; so clearly there.



I never said I didn't believe Satan was bound at this cross. You seem to be equating "bound" with "cast out of heaven" but the two aren't synonymous.



Satan has never had "free reign" the book of Job spells that out in detail. No one does. Any alleged Illuminati don't control jack but their delusions of grandeur which all go poof in the end when the shocking truth is realized. They'll never be the same. And that's pretty much the point. Daniel chapter 4 is the point.



It also says he has "a short time" but apparently this is ? Two thousand years? What is the "short time"?

Re 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



What scripture says this? Where is this coming from?



Not imputing sin, absolving of sin, etc. these things are not the same as "cannot be accused" and "cannot be accused" is not "cast out of heaven" all of these things are huge leaps in logic without biblical support.



No one is ignoring any victories, it's the part where you are teaching "already cast out of heaven" as if it's a necessary conclusion to "was defeated"- you are aware that it is entirely possible to conquer an enemy, be victorious over that enemy, and bring that enemy under your authority so that he nows does what you tell him to do? The only happens all throughout history, right? So we can be sure that "victory" doesn't have to equal "cast out of heaven"

John,

I stand by what I wrote and your study and comments are here as a comparison and that is good. Let each reader decide for themselves and be encouraged to find out for themselves.

Amen?

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.