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THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY BIBLE VERSES SHOWING 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
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While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. John 17:15 (KJV)
JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matt. 24:29 (KJV)
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." I Corin. 15:52
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture".
9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS
JESUS IS COMING SOON!
We are followers of JESUS Only
Seekers of the truth start here by praying
to the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you.
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
THE BIBLE IS THE INERRANT WORD OF YHWH
THE BIBLE IS FREE OF ERROR IN ALL IT'S TEACHINGS AND INSPIRED BY THE WORD OF YHWH
JESUS IS GOD
JESUS is GOD/GOD Son:
JESUS is The WORD
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things
Psa. 122:6 Pray shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters): prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.
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THE BOOK OF ENOCH
NOW IS THE TIME!
FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!
Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch
The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa
JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:
THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT
JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY
All Of The Apocryphal Books Of
The King James 1611 Version
Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's return!
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
What we see in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is no longer speaking about the man of
lawlessness, it now turns to Satan, the he who now letteth (Gr. katecho, to hold
fast or down, restrain) his secret power of lawlessness. Regardless of his being
bound (Gr. deo, to forbid, prohibit, declare to be illicit) from deceiving the
nations, Satan’ secret power of lawlessness is still in force, seeking whom he may
devour. Satan may have lost his accusatory positional status in the heavens, but
obviously his power to wreak havoc on humanity is still in force. Chapter 12 of
Revelation speaks clearly of this fact, which also entails the binding of Satan and
his being cast down to earth as the result of Christ’s atoning work on Calvary:
And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels fought
against the Dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But he was not strong enough and they lost their place in
heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down – that ancient
serpent called the devil or Satan, who leads the whole world
astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him. 10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the
salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and
the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled
down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the
word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to
shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who
dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the
devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because
he knows that his time is short, (Revelation 12:7-12, NIV).
[Bold, underline and italicized word time is by the author, solely for
In Revelation 13:1-8, we see where the devil has given authority to the Beast (the
man of lawlessness) to blaspheme, and the authority for 42 months (of time) to
make war against the saints, and to conquer them! Many theorists believe these
42 months’ represent 1260 days that precede The Second Advent of Christ.
Others allegorize these numbers to represent various spiritual symbols, types and
dispensational precepts that supposedly validate their respective theories. Yet,
also, many unproven theories exist in regards to these two specific numbers,
including they represent days, years or symbols of various indeterminate
amounts of time (as amillennialists deduce) that require various interpretations
that throw date-setting totally off kilter. Premillennialists view the numbers as
being literal and those immediately preceding The Second Advent.
Postmillennialists attach no specific time frame to those numbers, concluding
that any millennial references deal solely with a vague period of time that began
after the cross that will allow the Christian Church authority to usher in a
prolonged time of peace preceding The Second Advent. Amillennialists view them
as symbolic of an indeterminate amount of time of wilderness journey for the
ecclesia, somewhere in between the crucifixion of Christ and The Second Advent.
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
Some theorists view the Beast as the man of lawlessness that will appear
anywhere from three and a half to seven years before The Second Advent, and
many other theorists believe the Beast will rise from some European confederacy
or Middle East nation, three and a half to seven years before The Second Advent;
and many others believe the Beast is the Roman Catholic Church from its very
inception. Many theorists also interpret the restrainer as the Roman church or a
governing political body. Although many see these two entities as being evil in
and of themselves (which is truth to a certain extent), they are primarily the
(sometimes willing) victims of the secret power of lawlessness. However, they
are not the restrainer nor the source of the secret power of lawlessness, Satan is!
Also, whomever the Beast may be, or whatever these numbered times (42 months
or 1260 days, months, years) truly represent, they are not for us to be concerned
with, (Acts 1:7). One thing is certain, whether these names and numbers are
symbols and or types that can be applied to past, present or future events and
entities, the called out ones of God historically have and will continue to suffer
great persecution under diabolical powers until The Second Advent!
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and
seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a
blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had
feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The
dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great
authority. 3 One of the heads had a fatal wound, but the fatal
wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and
followed the beast. 4 Men worshipped the dragon because he
had given authority to the beast, and they also worshipped the
beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against
him? 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and
blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two
months. 6 He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander
his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 He
was given power to make war against the saints and to
conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe,
people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will
worship the beast – all whose names have not been written in the
book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation
of the word, (Revelation 13:1-8, NIV) [Underline and bold is by the
author, solely for emphasis]
Regardless of the persecutory time factors preceding The Second Advent, the
main issue we are concerned with in this chapter is who or what is restraining the
revealing of this man of lawlessness. In verse 7 of 2 Thessalonians 2, we see Paul
telling the disciples that the “secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but
the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the
way.” The secret power of lawlessness is not the Beast, antichrist or the man of
lawlessness and it surely is not the Holy Spirit; but, rather, it is Satan, the Prince
of this world. While Satan is currently bound from using his demonic powers as
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
he did before the works performed by Christ at Calvary, and no longer has a
positional status in heaven to accuse the called out ones of God, he is still the
secret power of lawlessness for an indeterminate period of a thousand years,
which culminates immediately before The Second Advent. The loosing of Satan
for a short season is a time of diabolic force unleashed on humanity as never
before, which will include Satan going out to deceive the nations which are in the
four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle:
the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth
of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:
and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them, (Revelation
No distinction has to be made between the time that Satan is bound by Christ
from deceiving the nations (Revelation 20:2) for those alleged 1000 literal years
(which theorists promote as beginning after The Second Advent), and the war in
heaven between Michael, the archangel (Revelation 12:7), who cast down the
dragon. They are the same event! Jesus, who had yet paid the price for sin
through His atoning work on Calvary, spoke of this binding (in Luke 10:18) when
He stated that He saw Satan as lightning fall from heaven. In this prophetic
glimpse (in Luke 10:18) Christ reveals to His disciples clearly the binding of Satan
that would take place when He paid the price for sin on Calvary. This was in
response to the disciples having experienced a preview of the power they would
posses in His name. He was telling His disciples (who were excited about their
newfound power to cast out demons) that the devil’s power has been hindered
and the decline of the evil serpent’s kingdom has begun. However, the secret
power of lawlessness will still prevail until Christ returns. Matthew Henry, in his
commentary of Luke 10:18, provides added insight to this aspect:
Even the devils, those potent enemies, are subject to us. Note, the
saints have no greater joy or satisfaction in any of their triumphs
than in those over Satan. If devils are subject to us, what can stand
He confirmed what they said, as agreeing with his own observation
(v. 18): "My heart and eye went along with you; I took notice of the
success you had, and I saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven.’’
Note, Satan and his kingdom fell before the preaching of the gospel.
"I see how it is,’’ saith Christ, "as you get ground the devil loseth
ground.’’ He falls as lightning falls from heaven, so suddenly, so
irrecoverably, so visibly, that all may perceive it, and say, "See how
Satan’s kingdom totters, see how it tumbles.’’ They triumphed in
casting devils out of the bodies of people; but Christ sees and
rejoices in the fall of the devil from the interest he has in
the souls of men, which is called his power in high places,
Eph. 6:12. He foresees this to be but an earnest of what should now
be shortly done and was already begun—the destroying of
Satan’s kingdom in the world by the extirpating of idolatry
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
and the turning of the nations to the faith of Christ. Satan
falls from heaven when he falls from the throne in men’s
hearts, Acts 26:18. And Christ foresaw that the preaching of the
gospel, which would fly like lightning through the world, would
wherever it went pull down Satan’s kingdom. Now is the
prince of this world cast out. Some have given another sense of this,
as looking back to the fall of the angels, and designed for a caution
to these disciples, lest their success should puff them up with pride.
(Matthew Henry’s Commentary on Luke 10:18) [Underline and bold
is by the author, solely for emphasis]
However, while the Holy Spirit provides the called out ones with power to resist
the devil for an indeterminate period some call a thousand years, a time is
coming when Satan will be loosed from this restraining status for a short season,
and subsequently gives the man of lawlessness his power and authority. The
man of lawlessness cannot be revealed until the time Satan gives him his
authority. In Revelation 13:2, the last half of that verse specifically states “The
dragon gave the beast his power, and his throne and great authority.” The man
of lawlessness does not have anything going for him until Satan gives power to
him at this precise time, and it is then that the man of lawlessness is revealed.
Verse 2 is confirmed in 2 Thessalonians 2:9, “The coming of the lawless one will
be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeits,
miracles, signs and wonders, and every sort of evil that deceives those who are
perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and be saved.”
[Underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
2 Thessalonians 2, verse 7, speaks solely about Satan, the one who now holds,
lets, letteth (Gr. katecho, keeps, possesses) onto his diabolical secret power of
lawlessness, and will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. This one is
speaking about Satan, the one who has the secret power of lawlessness, and it is
not speaking about the Holy Spirit. The one who is eventually taken out of the
way is Satan, not the Holy Spirit. Pre-Tribulation Rapture theorists interpret this
verse to mean that it is the Holy Spirit who is both holding back the secret power
of lawlessness and is also the one who is taken out of the way. However, this
verse (7) is speaking about only one entity. The one who holds onto it (the secret
power of lawlessness) is Satan, who was bound by Christ from deceiving the
nations, as he did before Calvary. The one who is taken out of the way is not the
Holy Spirit, but it is Satan who holds back (by God’s time frame) his full arsenal
attack on God’s called out ones, not the Holy Spirit! To claim that the he (who is
taken out of the way) is speaking about the Holy Spirit does not make any sense
at all, because the Holy Spirit, who is equal with (and is) God, cannot be “taken”
out of the way. The Holy Spirit is God in Spirit form and no one has any
authority to “take” God away but God Himself. The scripture does not say, “He
removed” himself out of the way. It specifically states that “he is taken out of the
way,” and this he is Satan and that event is clearly described in Revelation 12:7-
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
Even though Satan’s ability to deceive the nations was bound by the works of
Christ, he has not been able to control mankind to the degree he did before
Christ’s atoning work at Calvary. However, Satan, who is the mystery of
lawlessness, has been utilizing his limited diabolical powers to steal back the
called out ones from Christ. However, after he is loosed for a short season, prior
to The Second Advent, the devil will unleash his demonic forces on mankind as
never witnessed before.
The message is very clear. If you apply scripture to verify scripture rather than
applying scripture to a theory in hopes it will confirm the theory, then truth rings
loud and clear. There is no scripture that indicates, implies or that can even lead
one to infer that the Holy Spirit is the “restrainer.” The author can also
appreciate the many scholars who espouse that the Roman church or human
government could also be the restrainer. However, scripture itself states that
Satan is under a time-restrained program, one where he doesn’t have the
authority to work his diabolical magic to the fullest extent on earth until he is
loosed for a short season in one last effort to confuse, seduce and destroy
believers, “because he knows that his time is short, (Revelation 12:12, NIV).”
[Underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
This view the author has presented is not his own interpretation of 2
Thessalonians 2:6-9, but it’s in concert with God’s word and His overall
redemption plan. Although these verses do not specifically mention Satan’s
name as the he “who now holds it back” or the he who “is taken out of the way,”
neither is the Holy Spirit specifically mentioned as the he.
If anything, it is Pre-Tribulationists and Pre-Millennialists who erroneously paint
a picture of the Holy Spirit in this context (solely to pad their secret Pre-
Tribulation escape to heaven theory), one that is contradictory to His nature. For
one, the Holy Spirit is never seen as an agent of warfare against the “man of
lawlessness.” Number two, although the dwelling presence of His power on the
ecclesia is a force that can overcome a natural world and bring about an earthly
peace, as Postmillennialists claim, God’s ecclesia fails (for lack of faith) in
exercising that potential force. Not that the Holy Spirit is not willing nor has held
back His powers from the church to accomplish this task; however, the majority
of the church, unfortunately, lacks the faith to implement Holy Spirit power to its
full potential. If that were not the case, then surely the Christian Church would
have exercised that power by now. Also, the Holy Spirit is not an entity that can
be forcibly removed (taken out of the way). He is one with (and is) God. Also, in
verse 6, it doesn’t say, “you know who is holding him back,” it says, “You know
what is holding him back.” That what is time! So he (the man of lawlessness)
may be revealed at his proper time, only through the diabolical powers he
receives from Satan. Also, the Holy Spirit is not a what! The Holy Spirit is a he;
the Holy Spirit is God! It is agreed that in the overall scenario, God is in complete
control of time; but God is not the one who reveals the man of lawlessness. God
doesn’t give him his power, nor does the Holy Spirit; it is Satan who reveals the
man of lawlessness, by his power and authority, “in accordance with the (devil’s)
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
work.” If accomplished grammarians were to use normal English language
standards and mere logic here, it should not be that difficult to ascertain this is
exactly what is meant in this passage of scripture.
New Holy Spirit Verses Old Holy Spirit?
In attempts to confirm that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer, theorists also
contend that the Holy Spirit takes on a new and different ministerial dimension
after He supposedly has been removed from earth. Theorists contend the Holy
Spirit has been forcefully removed and sent packing to heaven along with the
Christian Church. But, yet, they still envision the Holy Spirit returning back to
earth to do a new work during the so-called Great Tribulation. Either the Holy
Spirit is removed to heaven or He is not. Theorists can’t conveniently have it
both ways. This particular theory does tremendous violence to both an
intellectual and spiritual understanding of God’s Word. It makes no sense
whatsoever to see the Holy Spirit removed, solely to justify a secret pretribulation
escape to heaven, and then see the Holy Spirit back on earth again,
this time working under a new modus operandi. More importantly, this inference
comes short of denying (if not blasphemes) the glory and power of the Holy
Spirit, who is God!
Hal Lindsey asserts that the Holy Spirit reverts back to do the “work as He did in
the Old Testament.” He goes on to say that the Holy Spirit “will not be gone from
the world, but His unique ministries in, through and for the believer will be
removed with the church. (Hal Lindsey, The Rapture, Bantam Books, Page 138.)”
Yet, Mr. Lindsey provides not one single verse to substantiate that claim. He
further insults the spiritual intelligence of his readers by asserting (in the same
page, 138) that: “The Holy Spirit will endow the 144,000 chosen Israelites with
the same type of Holy Spirit power he manifested with the prophets in the Old
Testament.” Mr. Lindsey also states, “In fact, two of the mightiest prophets from
the economy of law will return to shake up the world. The Holy Spirit will
convince men of their need of salvation, bring them to faith and regenerate
them as He did from the beginning of man’s sin.” Obviously, Mr. Lindsey doesn’t
feel the Holy Spirit was powerful enough to convince mankind to accept salvation
when He was in the world the first time around. Now, Mr. Lindsey, in essence, is
saying that the Holy Spirit first has to be removed in order to get the Christian
Church to heaven, and then immediately returns back to earth to give it another
try during the so-called Great Tribulation. This time around, Mr. Lindsey would
have us believe the Holy Spirit is now seen receiving help from the Two
Witnesses, after they “shake up the world” a little bit, to sort of soften up
potential converts, so the Holy Spirit might be able to complete the job.
Mr. Lindsey goes on to further say how the Holy Spirit is now going to finish His
salvation work when he states that “the unique Church economy ministries of
indwelling, baptizing, sealing, gifting and filling of every believer will be
removed with the Church. This is consistent with all that is revealed of the
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
average Tribulation believer’s level of spiritual insight, knowledge and
maturity, (also on page 138).”
Mr. Lindsey and other theorists not only postulate that the Two Witnesses preach
the gospel and help lead the way for the Holy Spirit to do His job, they also assert
that 144,000 “Jews” also get into the preaching act and help convert those who
remain on earth after the Christian Church has been snatched up and taken to
heaven. And these theorists claim the 144,000 are all virgin Jewish preachers,
too! Let’s examine the two groups of scripture pertaining to the 144,000 and the
group that pertains to the Two Witnesses:
“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on
the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the
number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of
Israel. 5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe
of Rueben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6 from the tribe of
Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of
Manasseh 12,000, 7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe
of Levi 12,000, from the tribe if Issachar 12,000, 8 from the tribe of
Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of
Benjamin 12,000, (Revelation 7:3-8, NIV).
The word for sealed (vs. 4) in the Greek (according to Vine) is sphragizo, which is
the verb for the noun sphragis, which is interpreted “a seal or signet,” Revelation
7:2, “the seal of the living God,” an emblem of ownership and security, here
combined with the destination (as Ezekiel 9:4), the persons to be sealed being
secured from destruction and marked for reward.” Let’s briefly examine Ezekiel
9:3-6 to see the similarity of this protective seal spoken about in Revelation:
Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the
cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the
temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had
the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city
of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who
grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are
done in it.” 5 As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him
through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion, 6
Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children,
but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my
sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were in front of the
temple, (Ezekiel 9:3-6, NIV). [Bold and underline is by the author,
solely for emphasis]
Here we see a perfect example of God’s purpose for “sealing” a select group of
people, as He did during the Passover and throughout many similar events in the
Old Testament. The word “sealed” in Revelation, Chapter 7 does not connote any
embellishing or indwelling of the Holy Spirit for any evangelistic purposes; but,
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
rather, it’s an act of mercy on God’s part that signifies His ownership and
provision of security with a destination in mind. No mention whatsoever is made
or implied in Revelation 7 that a “baptism of the Holy Spirit” for the purposes of
preaching the gospel has ensued. Yet, theorist upon theorist interprets that to be
the case. Let’s examine the other group of scriptures that mention the 144,000 in
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on
Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his
Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound
from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of
thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their
harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the
four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song
except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth 4 These
are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept
themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They
were purchased from among men and offered as
firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their
mouths; they are blameless, (Revelation 14:1-5). [Underline and
bold is by the author, solely for emphasis]
As the scripture here reveal, the 144,000 are now seen standing with the Lamb on
Mount Zion (with the name of God and the Lamb sealed on their forehead),
singing a new song that no one could learn except for the 144,000. They are
pictured here as a select group of people (from the twelve tribes of Israel,
including Judah, the only Jewish clan from the 12 tribes) who were purchased
from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb and no lie was
found in their mouth, nor were they defiled with women and they are blameless
(virgins)! But, yet, there is no mention made in that portion of scripture that they
performed any type of ministerial service, nor that God had used them as endtimes
What specific purpose God has for choosing these 144,000 from the twelve tribes
of Israel is not truly known, other than that they are virgins, not defiling
themselves with woman. Maybe God provides a clue as to why He has chosen
this group of 144,000 where it states that they sang a new song that no one could
understand but the 144,000. Who truly knows? Certain religious groups claim
the 144,000 represent the entire ecclesia of God. However, even though all
mankind has sinned and come short of the glory of God, the author is certain
there will be more than 144,000 who will comprise the ecclesia of God at the
Second Advent. Some theorists present the case that these 144,000 could very
well be the remnant spoken of in Jeremiah 23:3, Micah 4:7, Zephaniah 3:13,
Zechariah 8:12, Romans 9:27; 11:5 (and other scriptures,) who will repopulate the
earth with undefiled descendents of Israel, in hopes national Israel can start life
anew, and get it right this time. However, as is clearly stated in Ezekiel, Chapters
36 and 37, God is going to resurrect and gather all of Israel from throughout the
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
entire earth and restore it to the land of Israel, the land He gave to His servant
Jacob. Is this land God’s speaks of here the land we all know as the country of
Israel that was established in the Middle East in 1948? If so, it appears that small
parcel of land will be awfully crowded. As will be shown in another chapter of this
book, the author believes scripture in both of these chapters are speaking about
the resurrection and final abiding inside New Jerusalem, the Holy City of God,
the true Promised Land. More importantly, nowhere in these verses is it stated or
can be inferred that these 144,000 were chosen to perform any evangelistic
mission in the traditional sense. Yet theorists contend that is the case.
Let’s continue examining the group of scriptures that deals with the so-called
evangelizing that theorists maintain is supposed to be performed by the Two
I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and
measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshippers
there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it
has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city
for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and
they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are
the two olive trees and the two lamp stands that stand before the
Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from
their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who
wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut
up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are
prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood
and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they
want. 7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the
beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower
and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city,
which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord
was crucified. 9 For three and a half days men from every people,
tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them
burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will
celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets
had tormented those who live on the earth. 11 But after the
three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and
they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them “Come up
here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies
looked on, (Revelation 11:1-12, NIV). [Bold and underline by the
author, solely for emphasis]
If you will notice very carefully, nowhere in this group of scriptures do we see
these two individuals or entities preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ for the
purpose of converting the unbeliever; but, rather, they are seen tormenting (vs.
10) those who live on earth. We do see these two individuals demonstrating some
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
very unique powers (shutting up the sky so it won’t rain, turning the water into
blood and striking the earth with plagues, and even devouring their enemies),
including the fulfillment of their main mission, which is to prophesy (verse 2).
The word used here (verse 6) for prophecy is the Greek verb propheteuo, which
(according to W. E. Vine) means, “to be a prophet, to prophecy, is used with the
primary meaning of telling forth the Divine counsels of God.” We see no
evidence of any preaching of the gospel in the traditional Christian ministry sense
here; but, rather, the two witnesses are seen extolling the doom that is to come on
the nations (Gr. ethnos, multitudes) that believe not. These two witnesses are
then seen as being attacked, overpowered and killed, their bodies lying in state
for three and a half days while the inhabitants of the earth gloat and celebrate.
Are these inhabitants of the earth demonstrating repentant hearts? Do these
murderers appear like they have just accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?
After three and a half days, a breath of life from God enters them and they stand
on their feet, respond to God’s call to “Come up here” and they ascend up on a
cloud while their enemies look on. But yet, no mention is made of anyone
repenting of his or her disbelief, or turning to the Lord Almighty to be saved due
to any evangelizing by these two individuals. No mention is ever made of either
the 144,000 or the two witnesses as being a part of any evangelistic crusade
(solely to Israelis or Jews) during this period of time; yet, theorists, in vain
attempts, continue to interpret the aforementioned verses as accomplishing such
Other groups of scripture that confirm the Holy Spirit will not be removed at any
time and will remain unto The Second Advent are found in the Book of Acts 1:6
and Acts 2:1-21. It is in Acts 1:6 where the disciples asked the Lord if He was
going to restore the Kingdom of Israel at that time, and He responded that “It is
not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be
my witness in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the
earth.” After He said this, He was taken up before their very eyes, at which time
an angelic being told them that this same Jesus, who has been taken from you
into heaven, would come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.
It was necessary for Jesus to leave in order for the Holy Spirit to come and fulfill
His mission. In Acts 2:1-13, we see the great Day of Pentecost and, in verse 14, we
see Peter addressing the Jews (and all who were in Jerusalem at that time) that
the experience they had just witnessed was not a drunken scene, but the
fulfillment of a prophecy made by Joel:
In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see
visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants,
both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heaven
above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and
glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the
name of the Lord will be saved, (Acts 2:17-21, NIV). [Bold and
underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
One of the keys concerning the duration of the Holy Spirits’ ministry in this
prophecy is found in verses 19 and 20, which specifically state the times that the
Holy Spirit will still be in effect. They deserve to be repeated:
I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth
below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be
turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of
the great and glorious day of the Lord, (Acts 2:19-20, NIV).
[Bold and underlines is by the author, solely for emphasis]
In Isaiah 24:23; 13:10; 34:4; Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12-15; 8:12, we see
the mentioning of the sun being darkened and the moon being turned blood red
before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. These groups of
scripture are conclusive proof that the Holy Spirit is actively working up to (and
including) the day that the Lord Jesus returns to reign forever as King of kings
and Lord of lords. These verses conclusively confirm that the ecclesia, the body
of Christ, called out ones, saints, the elect, those who hold to the testimony of
their God, those who are patient and endure these trials, those who continue to
obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus (Revelation 14:12),
including those who die in the Lord during that intensified period of persecutions
(Revelation 14:13), all the called out ones pictured in times of the greatest
tribulation, ever, WILL BE COMFORTED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY
SPIRIT. Not solely through the Old Testament application of God’s Spirit, but
rather, in His full power. Those called out ones, who will be preaching,
witnessing and praying for others to come to Christ during that intensified period
of tribulation, will also have access to all of the power the Holy Spirit contains;
therefore, the Holy Spirit will not be limited to the so-called Old Testament
application, as theorists so foolishly contend. [Caps by the author, solely for
In the Book of Luke, the Christian is reminded once again that you will be
betrayed by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of
you to death. All men will hate you because of me. BUT NOT A HAIR ON YOUR
HEAD WILL PERISH, (Luke 21:16-28, NIV). Jesus died on the cross, was
resurrected after three days, ascended into heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to
come and minister with great power, especially in the last days. God poured out
His (Holy) Spirit gifts on His existing ecclesia on the Day of Pentecost for power
to preach the gospel, and these Holy Spirit gifts of power will remain throughout
the increased times of great tribulation, until the end, up to and until Jesus Christ
returns to rule and reign as King of kings and Lord of lords, forever! [Caps by the
author, solely for emphasis]
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
No! The Holy Spirit is not removed seven years before the so-called Great
Tribulation. The Holy Spirit is not removed, whatsoever! The Holy Spirit is not
restraining anything or anyone, nor is He eventually taken out of the way, as if
that were even possible to do. The devil (Satan) is the secret power of lawlessness
and gives the Beast power and authority to persecute the called out ones, the
ecclesia of God, still on earth, until Jesus returns to rule and reign on earth
Please read these verses again in the context that they have been presented and
then re-read the theories that others have written, proposing that the Holy Spirit
has to be taken out of the way, solely in an attempt to justify or validate an
unproven theory that the Christian Church couldn’t be expected to be on earth
during times of great tribulation.
The human and fleshly part of the author would like to see Christ return and
provide an escape from the impending horrors and persecution that will ensue
immediately before The Second Advent of Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God.
Yet, the spiritual part of the author wants and needs to fulfill God’s will, however
painful it may be. As Paul states in Philippians 3:10, I want to know Christ and
the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in His sufferings,
becoming like Him in His death, and so, somehow attain to the resurrection
from the dead. Is this some special masochistic or death wish on the author’s
part? Not at all! He just wants to follow Jesus Christ, regardless of the cost, so he
can look Him straight in the face when He returns and have Him say, “Well done,
Unfortunately, true discipleship commitment is not what it used to be. Not the
way it was in the days of martyrs like Peter, Paul and Stephen, as was experienced
by the great clouds of witnesses in Hebrews 11, or like the committed-unto-deathones
described in Fox’s Book of Martyrs, those who willingly suffered great
torture, to the point of laying down their lives for Christ and His precious gospel,
rather than serve other gods.
Throughout the Bible, Jesus talked about the price one would have to pay to
follow Him; unfortunately, too many Christians have been lulled into a pseudo
spiritual comfort by the secret Pre-Tribulation Rapture myth. Too many are
clinging to this fragile safety net, or choose not to think about the possibility they
will soon have to make a choice: Life or death for Christ! How many are
physically and or spiritually prepared to make that commitment? Unfortunately,
many of us do not even want to think about the possibility that we may very well
have to endure much pain and torture as we stand up for Christ. Many are too
fearful of death to even think of a time when they may very well have to pick up
their own instruments of death in the name of Jesus Christ. Too many in the
Christian community are caught up and obsessed with the temporal and creature
comforts of this world. They are preoccupied with money, status, secular
achievements and success, nurturing flesh and ego desires and temptations, even
Is The Holy Spirit Removed?
seeking societal and emotional self-esteem, as if these things will even matter as
the imminent sounds of the hoof beats of terror, horror and great persecution
grow louder each day. Can we say we are prepared to cast off everything, even
life, as we approach the impending times of great tribulation before The Second
Advent? Luke 9:23-26 sums it up best:
If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up
his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life
will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good
is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his
very self. If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of
Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in His glory and in the
glory of the Father and of the holy angels, (Luke 9:23-26, NIV).
In his book, The Rapture, Hal Lindsey makes a reference to those who oppose the
Pre-Tribulation scenario, especially those who support Post-Tribulation or AMillennial
views, as being “super macho” Christians. Let the author respond to
that by saying that the thought of being tortured and beheaded because the
author is a Christian doesn’t set well with his human flesh and psyche, and he’s
sure it doesn’t set well with the reader, either. However, if the Christian Church is
not “caught up” to heaven before it experiences great tribulation at the hands of
the Beast and his minions, then everything that the Bible says about such great
persecution (as has never been experienced before) will befall those called out
ones who will be on earth immediately before The Second Advent. It will come to
pass. Then what choice do we really have? What can we do to escape it? It
appears to this author that the preparations we make today (by that he means to
what degree we abide in Christ) will determine how we will cope with that
The author will be discussing this aspect in greater detail; but, for now, don’t
become grieved or heart stricken by what you are reading. Instead, let the Word
of God and His promise of eternal life remove all fear. That’s what His death and
resurrection were all about, the freeing of condemnation and fear of death:
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their
humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the
power of death – that is, the devil – 15 and free those who all
their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death,
(Hebrews 2:14,15, NIV). [All scripture and other words in caps, bold
or underlined, are by the author, solely for emphasis]
FOR FAIR USE EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES
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And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
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One of the major building blocks Pre-Tribulation theorists and dispensationalists
use to promote their secret escape to heaven theory includes how they interpret
the “blessed hope” in Titus 2:13, which speaks about the waiting for the glorious
appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Theorists interpret the
“blessed hope” to mean that it represents only the Rapture, where Jesus will
supposedly step down from His heavenly throne (unnoticed by the non-believer)
and secretly snatch up the Christian Church from earth to heaven immediately
before the so-called seven year long Great Tribulation.
Their theory is that only Born Again (after the Day of Pentecost) Christians will
be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), and then be taken
to heaven for seven years. Supposedly during which time they will receive
rewards in heaven, which includes participation as a bride in a great wedding
ceremony, followed by a banquet to end all banquets. In this wedding, theorists
contend that only members of the Born Again community (which calls itself The
Christian Church) will finally be joined together in matrimony with Christ, He
the Bridegroom and the Christian Church being the Bride of the Lamb.
Theorists contend that before the seven year period of Great Tribulation (the socalled
Daniel’s Seventieth Week), the Christian Church will be caught up to
heaven to first stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. During this time they
will receive their rewards and then will be presented as the Bride of the Lamb,
consummates this marriage to Christ, celebrates this great wedding with a
banquet in heaven. Then, after a seven year honeymoon of safety will, the church
will return back with its new husband, Jesus Christ, to begin the Kingdom reign
on earth for a thousand year earthly reign in the City of Jerusalem, in the State of
modern day Israel.
The questions one must ask those who support this theory is this: “What does the
verse in Revelation 22:12 mean when it states, ‘Behold, I am coming soon! My
reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.”
[Underline by the author, solely for emphasis]
If, as theorists proclaim, the Christian Church is to be caught up to receive its
reward in heaven at the Judgment Seat of Christ, why is Jesus proclaiming (in
this verse) that He is coming soon and that His reward is with Him? In all of the
theories presented by Pre-Tribulation theorists concerning the ecclesia, nowhere
is it stated or implied in the Bible that called out ones will be secretly snatched up
to heaven to receive any type of recompense. Although the word reward is
mentioned several times as being stored in heaven, no mention is ever made of
the Christian Church being caught up to heaven to receive this reward in heaven.
We do see Jesus Christ stating in Matthew 5:12 that there is a reward in heaven
(Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven); however,
theorists have failed to present scripture where called out ones actually receive
any form of reward in heaven. This verse (Matthew 5:12) is found in the famed
“Beatitudes,” which begin in verse 3, where we see Jesus stating that, Blessed are
the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. You will note that this
verse does not say the Kingdom in heaven, but rather, the Kingdom of heaven.
This obviously means that the Kingdom is a heavenly and spiritual one, unlike
earthly kingdoms; however, it will eventually be manifested to humanity in its
totality when Jesus Christ returns to rule and reign on earth forever, as
Revelation 21:1-3 clearly states. Many claim the Kingdom of heaven is already
here on earth. In the spiritual realm this is so true. However, in its fullness and
completeness, as is prophesied in Revelation 21:2, Hebrews 13:14, Psalms 102:22,
Daniel 2:44 and Zephaniah 3:8, the Kingdom of God will be the only Kingdom on
earth. That day has not arrived, yet. If this were so, then why are we told (in the
Lord’s Prayer) to pray for thy kingdom come and for Thy will be done, as in
heaven, so in earth?
And he said unto them, when ye pray, say, Our Father which art in
heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be
done, as in heaven, so in earth, (Luke 11:2, KJV.) [Bold and
underlines is by the author, solely for emphasis]
The most important prayer for the ecclesia is the one specifically given to us by
Jesus, and it asks the called out ones to pray for the Lord’s Kingdom to come!
Some would say that the Kingdom (in its fullest realization) is already here;
however, at this point in time (as it clearly states in 2 Corinthians 5:1-5), called
out ones now have the new spiritual nature imbued within them from the Holy
Spirit as a deposit (Gr. noun arrhabon, deposit or earnest) guaranteeing their
eternal inheritance in the Kingdom of God. However, if called out ones are to be
caught up to receive their rewards in heaven (as theorists postulate), why are the
called out ones instructed by the Lord to continually say the most important
prayer He has ever given them? Let’s examine other scripture that discuss the
The next mention of reward is made by Jesus (Matthew 5:46) in reference to His
exhortation to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us that we may
be sons of the Father who is in heaven. The next mention of reward is found in
Matthew 6:1 where Jesus once again exhorts the called out ones not to do their
acts of righteousness before men, to be seen by them, or else they will lose their
reward from the Father who is in heaven. The obvious inference is that their
reward is currently in heaven, but yet we find no scripture that states they will be
going to heaven to receive it; but, rather, the scriptures say the Lord is coming to
earth soon and He is bringing with Him His reward for them, (Revelation 22:12,
In Matthew 6:16, Jesus makes the reference to rewards concerning those
hypocrites that somberly fast before men to be seen by them in such manner
already have their rewards. There have been (and are still today) many who
publicly fast for one reason or another to bring attention to sometimes a worthy
cause. Yet, Jesus says that these individuals already have their rewards; but that
is not how members of the ecclesia are to fast. The called out one is to fast
unbeknownst to the world so the Father, who will reward them, will receive the
fast in secret.
The next reference to rewards is seen in Matthew 10:41-42. This verse is
reminding the ecclesia that whoever receives prophets and righteous men will
receive a prophet’s and righteous man’s reward, respectively. Also, whoever gives
even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because they are Disciples of
Christ will certainly not lose their reward. Those called out ones who do the work
of God (charity toward those He has chosen for His purpose) are the ones who
will receive a reward. That same reference to rewards is also found in Mark 9:41.
Again we see rewards mentioned in Luke 6:23-24; however, this time it is
mentioned in respect to receiving a reward for enduring persecution.
Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in
Heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets. 24 but
woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your
comfort, (Luke 6:23-24, NIV).
Once again, we see that the reward is mentioned as being in heaven, but no
mention is made of being caught up to receive that reward in heaven; but, rather,
in Revelation 22:12, we see where the Lord is coming soon and His reward for His
ecclesia is with Him! Also, in Luke, verses 32-35, we see the Lord exhorting the
ecclesia to love not only our friends, relatives and loved ones, but also to love our
enemies. Jesus says that even sinners love those who love them so what great
credit is gained from that. Rather, called out ones are exhorted to lend without
expecting payment, to love their enemies without expecting anything in return.
And to do so, their reward will be great because God is a merciful God (He is even
kind to the ungrateful and wicked) and He wants called out ones to be likewise.
The next major reference to reward is found in 1 Corinthians 3:8 where Paul is
exhorting the ecclesia to fulfill the tasks that God has individually assigned to
each called out one. As Jesus said to His disciples (in Acts 1:8), the ecclesia’s
main responsibility is to be His witnesses throughout the whole world, preaching
the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we examine carefully our total being, it is not that
difficult to realize that whatever talent or talents we have, whether they are
teaching, preaching, singing, giving, laborer of many different works, our
ultimate goal is to use it for the glory of God. The main theme of 1 Corinthians
3:8 is that whatever assigned tasks we have, we will be rewarded and our
positional status in the Kingdom of God will be determined according to the
The next reference to reward is found in 1 Corinthians 9:17, where we see Paul
making a bold statement that many Christians find very difficult to put into
practice. Let’s begin at verse 1 to understand and feel the total impact of his
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our
Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2 Even
though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For
you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. 3 This is my defense
to those who sit in judgment on me. 4 Don’t we have the right to
food and drink? 5 Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife
along with us, as do the other Apostles and the Lord’s brothers and
Cephas? 6 Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?
7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a
vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does
not drink of the milk? 8 Do I say this merely from a human point of
view? Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? 9 For it is written in the
Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is trading out the
grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says
this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because when
the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so
in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11 If we have sown spiritual
seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from
you? 12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we
have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary,
we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. 13
Don’t you know that those who work in the temple get their food
from the temple, and those who serve at the altar? 14 In the same
way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel
should receive their living from the gospel. 15 But I have not used
any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you
will do such things for me. I would rather die than have anyone
deprive me of this boast. 16 Yet when I preach the gospel, I cannot
boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach
the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not
voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed
to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in
preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not
make use of my rights in preaching it, (1 Corinthians 9:1-18, NIV).
[Bold and underlines is by the author, solely for emphasis]
The author purposely included the majority of this chapter to help bring light to
the reader about the many types of ministries we see today. As Paul states in
verses 1 through 12, he is telling the Corinthians that apostles (those called of God
for His purpose) have a right to reap a material harvest for their ministerial
labors. However, Paul emphatically states (in verse 6) that he and Barnabas did
not use that right; but, rather, they endured all things so as not to hinder the
gospel of Christ. Paul here is obviously demonstrating his faith in God knowing
full well that He will provide him for his labor. Paul says that the Lord has
commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the
gospel. However, Paul did not want the gospel to be hindered by having to dwell
on a monetary recompense for his labor. Instead, Paul would rather boast of
preaching the gospel without financial reward. Yet, when he preached, he
couldn’t boast because he was compelled to preach the gospel. This compelling
urge is a spiritually induced urge, although a voluntary one that comes from total
submission to Christ and the working of the Holy Spirit. So much so that Paul
understood that if he didn’t preach voluntarily, he not only would lose his reward,
but also would be found guilty of not discharging the trust that had been
committed to him by the Lord.
Unfortunately, today we see way too much emphasis on soliciting money for
ministerial activities rather than letting the power of the Holy Spirit quicken the
donor to give as the Spirit leads. Too much emphasis is placed on selling books,
video and audiotapes, religious trinkets, and various other Christian
paraphernalia in return for donations, rather than trusting God to provide for
their respective ministries. All of us in the ministry have been guilty of this at one
time or another and, unfortunately, have caused many to close the door on the
Gospel. If not completely turned off to close their hearts to the message, they
have at least been given an excuse to criticize the messengers of the Gospel to the
detriment of evangelism as a whole. Unfortunately, much of today’s evangelical
community is seen by the world as money hungry charlatans, rather than valiant
soldiers of the cross who need to be not only ministering to the world’s spiritual
needs, but to the needs of the poor, down-trodden and the orphans and widows
in our respective communities.
In Hebrews 10:35, the subject of reward is again mentioned in connection to
being confident in service to the Lord during hardship and times of persecution:
Remember those earlier days after you had received the
light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the
face of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to
insult and persecution at other times you stood side by side with
those who were so treated. 34 You sympathized with those in
prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property,
because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting
possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be
richly rewarded. 36 You need to persevere so that when you
have done the will of God, you will receive what he has
promised. 37 For in just a very little while, “He who is coming
will come and will not delay. 38 But my righteous one will live
by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.” 39
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of
those who believe and are saved, (Hebrews 10:32-39, NIV). [Bold
and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
Once again, we do not see in this section of scripture any mention of the
Christian Church being caught up to heaven to receive this reward, but rather,
we see the author of Hebrews quoting the identical remarks about the coming of
the Lord found in Revelation 22:20. The reward is in heaven, where Jesus Christ
is seated at the right hand of God; and, when He returns, His reward for the
faithful will be brought with Him to give to all those that believed (by faith) the
In Hebrews 11:23-28 we see the word reward mentioned in context to the reward
that Old Testament saints also were looking forward to receiving at the same
By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born,
because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid
of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up,
refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He
chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather
than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. 26 He
regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the
treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his
reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he
persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept
The Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of
the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel, (Hebrews
11:23-28, NIV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for
You will notice, especially in verse 28, where the author of Hebrews is speaking
about Moses’ faith, that the “firstborn” he is specifically talking about is none
other than Jesus Christ. Moses knew that the “firstborn” is the prophesied
Messiah to come and He (Messiah) is at the center of his faith. The word for
“firstborn” in the Greek is prototokos, which means firstborn (from protos, first
and tikto, to beget). It is used of the Christ born of the Virgin Mary in Luke 2:7;
further to His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and
preeminence over creation, not in the sense of being the first to be born. This
particular passage leads the author to believe once again that Israel, especially
the patriarchs and prophets, knew that the Messiah was to come. Unfortunately,
those in Judea at the time of His first advent did not believe that Jesus was the
Messiah foretold. However, Moses and the Old Testament fathers knew and
believed (by faith) that He (Messiah) would eventually come to resurrect them
from the dead (not to be “caught up” to heaven seven years before the Day of the
Lord); rather, Messiah would come down to earth to reign as King of Kings and
Lord of Lords inside the descended New Jerusalem, the Holy City of God!
Nowhere in the Old Testament do we see any reference being made to the
children of promise that there will be a “catching up” or rising to heaven after the
resurrection; but, rather, it does emphatically state that they will inherit a
heavenly Kingdom where God will eventually dwell amongst His people here on
earth, (Ezekiel 37:27). Also, no references whatsoever are made in the Old
Testament that national Israel’s (geopolitical) Kingdom will be restored on earth
(as it was before) nor was it to be realized up in heaven. But, rather, Old
Testament saints, by faith, were looking for that heavenly city (New Jerusalem,
The Holy City of God) that is to come, a time when the firstborn of Israel (the
Messiah) will come to dwell and rule His heavenly (not a Jewish geopolitical)
Kingdom (from within that city) on earth, (Hebrews 11:16; 13:14). [The author
provides in depth discussion on this aspect in Chapters 11 and 12 of this book]
Unfortunately, many Christians are looking for a time when they will be
“snatched up” to heaven to be with Christ for a seven-year period of time; but
nowhere in the Bible is this promise made. Many theorists have tried to set forth
this myth as Gospel truth, not by quoting specific verses that plainly state so; but,
rather, by reading into a verse an interpretation that stretches scripture beyond
its initial intent. Not only beyond its initial intent, but also in many cases, they
stretch a verse beyond mere logic, solely to justify a theory that goes contrary to
the laws of exegetical reasoning. For example, Hal Lindsey, in his book The
Rapture (page 107) asserts that the Christian Church is seen in heaven,
symbolized by the “seven lamps of fire.” He states:
“When the apostle John is caught up to Heaven in Revelation
Chapter 4, he sees seven lamps of fire burning before the throne of
God (verse 5). Those seven lamps first appeared on earth in
Chapter 1, verses 12 through 20. In verse 20 they are identified as
the seven symbolic churches. I believe that these seven lamps
are the Church, which has just been raptured into Heaven.
Here they are called the seven spirits of God because John is
emphasizing that the Spirit indwells the churches,” (Hal Lindsey,
THE RAPTURE, Bantam Books, page 1070) [Bold and underline is
by the author, solely for emphasis]
We can understand Mr. Lindsey’s zeal in wanting to provide possible
explanations to the Bible’s message to the church; however, this particular
assertion really stretches the credulity of even novice Bible students. Let’s
examine verse five to see exactly what it states:
From the throne came flashes of lightening, rumbling and peals of
thunder. Before the thrones, seven lamps were blazing. These are
the seven spirits of God, (Revelation 4:5, NIV)! [Bold and
underlines is by the author, solely for emphasis]
We appreciate all the years of study Mr. Lindsey has undertaken, as do we
acknowledge the fact his books have sold over 35 million copies (in many
different languages, too); but seriously, Mr. Lindsey, can you really expect even
the novice Bible student to believe that the “seven lamps of fire” in verse five
speaks about the church, when the Bible specifically states that these seven lamps
of fire are “the seven spirits of God”?
It is precisely these types of irresponsible statements (made throughout Mr.
Lindsey’s books in support of a secret pre-tribulation escape to heaven) that
affronts the intellect of not only the Bible purists, but hampers the spiritual unity
that the called out ones need in these latter days. Not only does Mr. Lindsey
expect his readers to accept his premise without challenging what might appear
to be a small point, but for him to insult the readers’ intelligence by expecting
them to believe that the “seven lamps of fire” could be even remotely compared to
the “seven lampstands (vs. 12)” makes Mr. Lindsey come very close to being
found guilty of what is spoken about in 2 Peter 2:1. The author doesn’t believe
that Hal Lindsey would try to purposely bring confusion to the evangelical ranks;
however, his failure to closely examine the subject of lamps and lampstands for
their true meaning can, in fact, plant great seeds of confusion to those who trust
his exegetical approach to prophecy. Let’s examine these two words (lamp and
lampstand) to see exactly what they truly mean.
The Greek word for lamp is lampas, which literally means, “torch.” Lampas is
the same word used in Matthew 25:4 in the parable of the ten virgins. Their
“lamps” were the “torches” or “lanterns” and their fuel (the oil) is an obvious
reference to the Holy Spirit that qualifies the five faithful virgins to enter the
wedding banquet with the bridegroom. Mr. Lindsey (and other theorists) already
believes that the five faithful virgins represent the church; would they also
conclude that the lamps the faithful virgins are holding represent the church,
In Revelation 1:18, 19 and 20, the word describing the churches that is used by
Jesus in John’s vision is “lampstand,” which is the Greek word luchnia, which
literally means a “stand that holds a lamp, or a lampstand.” Luchnia is the same
word found in Matthew 5:15, where we see Jesus describing the individual
believers who comprise the true ecclesia. These are known as the “sons of light,
You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how
can it be made salty again. It is no longer good for anything, except
to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14 You are the light of
the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people
light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on a stand
(luchnia) and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same
way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good
deeds and praise your Father in Heaven, (Matthew 5:13-16, NIV.)”
[Parenthesis (luchnia), bold and underline, is by the author, solely
The key to this group of scriptures is the meaning of light (vs. 14) which is phos,
the Greek word that means “to give light” or “light bearer,” where called out ones
are the sons of light (Luke 16:8), not merely because they have received a
revelation from God, but, as Holy Spirit power-imbued called out ones, they have
the spiritual capacity to do so. In verse 15, Jesus uses the analogy of how sons of
light should use their status as light bearers, by not hiding it under a bowl but to
put it on its “stand” so it gives light to everyone in the house. So also, let that
light be seen by all men. This analogy is a perfect example of the ecclesia in unity
fulfilling its true role, that of being a “lampstand (the ecclesia), comprised of light
bearing believers.” The only conclusion that can be made, then, is that the
lampstand (luchnia) is the ecclesia and the lamps (lampas) are the Spirits of God.
Having identified the true meaning of these two words (lamp and lampstand), it
becomes clear that the main message in the word “lampstand” in Revelation 1:12
and 20 is twofold. Number one, Jesus is telling John that He (the Lord) has
seven angels (the seven stars) that presently minister to the seven churches.
These seven angels appear to be the same seven angels that the Lord uses to fulfill
the purging process that is to take place when God’s wrath is poured out. That
the seven stars are God’s seven ministering angels is evident by the fact that the
letters to the seven churches are not addressed to the churches themselves, but to
the angels that have responsibility for the seven churches respectively. Secondly,
in the letter to the angel responsible for the Church at Ephesus (Rev. 2:5), we
clearly see a warning for the church’s need to repent and return to its first love:
that joy and fervor they had when they initially came to Christ. The Lord says
that if they don’t repent, He will come and remove that lampstand (church) at
Ephesus from its place (Gr. topos, positional status). The word “remove”
(according to Vine) is the Greek verb kineo, which literally means to set in
motion, move (hence, e.g., English: kinetmatics, kinetics, cinema). Kineo is used
in this verse of the virtual removal of the unfaithful church from God’s positional
status or, figuratively, of causing a local church to be discontinued.
We hope this brief examination between lamp and lampstand has shed new light
to the exegesis required and, also, to shed new light to Mr. Lindsey’s assertion
that the Christian Church should be viewed as being in heaven, solely because he
sees the “seven lamps of fire” before the throne of God. One can very well
understand (and even accept a sincere effort) where the assumption was made to
interpret the seven spirits of fire as also being a raptured church. What becomes
difficult to forgive, however, is Mr. Lindsey’s failure to quote the entire verse.
Let’s read it again:
From the throne came flashes of lightening, rumblings and peals of
thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are
the seven spirits of God, (Revelation 4:5; NIV). [Bold and
underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
It is one thing to interpret a scripture verse into a theory; however, to assert that
a verse might mean one thing when it clearly and specifically states exactly what
it means is totally irresponsible. To use Revelation 4:5 as proof that the Christian
Church is seen in heaven, when it specifically states that the seven lamps are
God’s spirits and not the church, is typical of the many unsubstantiated
interpretations Mr. Lindsey and other theorists use to build a case for Pre-
Once again, as has been pointed out before, to build a doctrine by conjecture and
by twisting new and unsubstantiated meanings to the word of God, solely to fit an
individually conceived theory, is extremely dangerous. This is dangerous not only
for theorists, but also (and especially) for the new babes in Christ that might be
seduced by its titillating effect.
The author sincerely feels in his heart and spirit that Mr. Lindsey is not
intentionally trying to dissuade the Christian from the truth. However, the
theories he has presented in his books pertaining to a secret pre-tribulation
escape of the Christian Church to heaven, we find to be not only scripturally
inconsistent with the literal and obvious cogency of God’s word, but deserve to be
challenged for their lack of substance. If we appear to be too harsh in our
criticism of Hal Lindsey’s book (The Rapture) and his overall Pre-Tribulation
stance, then we ask for his forgiveness. However, as we ask for his forgiveness,
we also would ask him to re-examine his position and hold true to the declaration
he made on page 24 of his book, which reads:
“I determined that if I should find that I had been wrong on this
issue, that I would write a book acknowledging it. I think it is
important to bring out that as far as my own personal faith is
concerned, if the scriptures teach that the church is to go through
all or part of the tribulation, I can certainly trust God for His care
and protection and press on. I want the truth, and don’t want to
spread false hope; to be found a liar before God. That thought is
more frightening to me than the tribulation.” (Hal Lindsey, The
Rapture, Bantam Books, page 24)
We are praying that our brother-in-the-Lord will stand by that statement, not to
gain glory for ourselves in smug haughtiness, or to be seen as smarter or more
spiritual than Hal Lindsey and other theorists; but, rather, that through our
mutual sharing of our respective studies and research, the Lord will continue to
use Mr. Lindsey and other expositors in even greater works for the glory of our
Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
While we have momentarily digressed from our subject of rewards, we felt it was
timely to mention that theories about the so-called Christian Church going to
heaven to receive rewards are weak, to say the least. However, scriptural verses
abound that point to the fact that Jesus will be returning to earth, in the flesh, not
secretly as theorists contend, to finally reward the believers for their faithfulness.
Unfortunately, too many people have been influenced by the “secret escape to
heaven” Rapture myth, a theory that is not based on scripture. As a matter of fact,
there are many references made in the Bible about seeing (in the flesh) the visible
Christ as He descends to earth to begin His eternal reign. Many did not
acknowledge Him in visible flesh during His first advent and many (at His
Second Advent) still will not acknowledge this fact. In 2 John verses 7 and 8, for
example, we see the called out ones being exhorted about deceivers who do not
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh, to be seen visibly by
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as
coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such
person is the deceiver and the anti-Christ. 8 Watch out that
you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be
rewarded fully, (2 John 7-8, NIV). [Bold and underlines is by the
author, solely for emphasis]
This particular verse (7) states that many (anti-Christian) deceivers did not
acknowledge that Jesus Christ did (and will again) come in the flesh. Many would
say that this verse speaks solely about Jesus’ first advent; however, A. R. Fausset
(of JFB) provides a strong argument that verse 7 implies Christ is seen visibly in
the flesh at both the First and Second Advent:
“He who denies Christ's coming in the flesh, denies the possibility
of the incarnation; he who denies that he has come, denies its
actuality. They denied the possibility of a Messiah's appearing, or
coming, in the flesh [NEANDER]. I think the Greek present
participle implies both the first and the second advent of Christ. He
is often elsewhere called the Coming One (Greek), Mat 11:3 Hbr
10:37. The denial of the reality of His manifestation in the
flesh, at His first coming, and of His personal advent
again, constitutes Antichrist.” (Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset
and David Brown Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the
Whole Bible (1871) THE SECOND AND THIRD EPISTLES
GENERAL OF JOHN, Commentary by A. R. Fausset) [Italics by
JFB, bold and underlines is by the author, solely for emphasis]
If Jesus is supposed to secretly step down from His place (currently at the right
hand of God) in heaven, as theorists incessantly contend, to “snatch up” the
Christian Church unseen by any others than the ecclesia, and take it back to
heaven, then their theory makes 2 John 7 a lie! If Jesus is to come for the ecclesia
before a seven-year period theorists call The Great Tribulation, and only the
Christian can see Him, then we are looking in vain for an invisible Christ, not a
Christ in the flesh as 2 John 7 states. More importantly (for those who continue
to promote this mythology), verse 7 also states that anyone who does not
acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh is a deceiver and the anti-Christ.
This verse alone makes it clear that anyone who supports a secret Rapture theory
or that supports a coming of Jesus Christ not in the flesh, in all His visible glory,
is a deceiver and the antichrist, or at least has been ignorantly deceived.
Another scripture that also emphatically states that Jesus Christ does not come to
earth in secret is found in Acts 3:21-23, which specifically states that Jesus does
not return to earth until God restores everything. The author will be expanding
on this particular aspect in greater detail, in the next chapter:
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to
restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy
prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for
you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen
everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him
will be completely cut off from among his people, (Acts
3:21-23, NIV) [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for
emphasis- See Chapter Six of this book for an expanded explanation
of Acts 3:21]
The remarks in verse 23 should be enough to frighten even the chanciest of
theorists about advocating any doctrine other than what the word of God very
clearly and specifically states about the return of Christ.
Once again, in verse 8 of 2 John, we are exhorted to beware of deceivers who do
not acknowledge that Christ will return in the flesh, or they will not be rewarded
fully. The warnings of losing their positional status in the Kingdom of God ring
ever so loudly. These two verses alone should be clear warning signs to those who
carelessly bandy about the word of God so loosely, in vain attempts to prove a
secret pre-tribulation escape to heaven theory, based primarily on conjecture,
however enticing that proposition may appear.
Finally, it is not until we get to Revelation 11:18 that we see that the time has
come for Jesus to reward all of His servants (the Old Testament patriarchs, as
well), the called out ones and those who believe in Messiah. All of this happens at
the sounding of the “seventh trumpet” which blends harmoniously with the
period where called out ones put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15:52); the period
when the ecclesia is “caught” to meet and great the returning Lord (1
Thessalonians 4:16, 17) as He returns to gather His elect from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven, (Mark
As the author will attempt to show later on, Revelation is not written in any time
framed chronology. Although the visions it contains are written down in a
systematic fashion, and the chapters are in chronological order, no one scholar
has ever been able to deduce a specific chronological time frame of impending
events. However, if we are to believe that it is laid out in a specific sequential time
frame, beginning the timeline in chapters 1 through 22, then the sounding of the
Last Trump (“the seventh trumpet”) is seen immediately after the passing of the
“second woe” and preceding the “third woe.” It is also seen after the horrific
trumpet plagues found in Chapters 9, 10 and 11, which include the 42-month
period that the “Two Witnesses” prophesy great woe. This obviously would place
the so-called snatching of the ecclesia, to meet the returning Jesus, at a time
much later than the pre-tribulation scenario, and even more so during the wrathoutpouring
period described throughout the Bible.
As the author concludes this brief examination of the subject of rewards, we are
reminded that our works, those done in and of our faith in Christ, will all come
under scrutiny, tested for their genuine inspiration of and through the Holy
Spirit. In 1 Corinthians 3:13, it states:
His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it
to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the
quality of each man’s work. 14 If what he has built
survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he
will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping
through the flames, (1 Corinthians 3:13-15, NIV). [Underline and
bold is by the author, solely for emphasis]
This set of scriptures is seen as the time when we will be judged at the Judgment
Seat of Christ (which theorists picture in heaven, prior to the great wedding
banquet) to receive our rewards on what we have built. If the works burn, we will
suffer loss. If they survive, we will receive our reward, our praise from God! The
author finds it very difficult to see this burning process going on in heaven. It
will happen here on earth as we endure the times of trial awaiting God’s ecclesia.
This fact is stated so succinctly in 1 Corinthians 4:5, where we see Paul telling the
ecclesia that, Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the
Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose
the motives of men's hearts. At that time, each will receive his praise from God,
(1 Corinthians 4:5, NIV). [Underline by the author, solely for emphasis]
When will this ‘praise from God’ happen? When the Lord comes! It doesn’t say it
will happen in heaven after the Lord supposedly has secretly snatched the
Christian Church up to heaven; it says, “Wait till the Lord comes!”
No, my friends, the Bible nowhere states that the Christian Church is to receive
rewards in heaven. It states that the rewards for each member of His ecclesia are
presently stored in heaven (Matthew 6:19-21), but the soon coming Christ will
bring it with Him when the appointed time (known only by the Father) has come.
The author believes that when all these scriptures mentioned in this book are
connected together, and read in their proper context, we can conclude that God’s
overall redemptive plan does not include a secret pre-tribulation escape to
Where are the rewards for the Christian? They are in heaven. Jesus went to
heaven to prepare His new administration, of which (one of those rewards) will
include a positional status for the called out ones as His assistants in the
Kingdom of God! No! He is not preparing rooms for us in heaven, He is currently
recording our deeds of faith and He is preparing our individual place (Gr. topos,
occasion, condition, opportunity, position), our positional status in His soon-tocome-
earth-bound-Kingdom [See extensive details on this place aspect in
Chapter 10]. After we have been changed (1 Corinthians 15:51), we will be caught
(1 Thessalonians 4:17) to meet (Gr. apentesis, a meeting to officially greet arriving
royalty) Jesus in the air. Then, we will all return with Him and re-enter the earth
with Jesus in our new glorified bodies, so that the entire world may see us
sharing in His glory (2 Thessalonians 2:14; 1 John 3:2; Romans 8:18; Colossians
3:4; 1 Peter 5:4) as He arrives, to reign on earth forever!
“BEHOLD, I AM COMING SOON! MY REWARD IS WITH ME, AND I WILL
GIVE TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO WHAT HE HAS DONE, (Revelation
22:12, NIV)!” [Capitalized by the author, solely for emphasis]
Having only just gotten into this book by Joe Ortiz, as it covers the Rapture Theories, I am left with the big question of what "Pastor" Bob would do with this should he read it. Course he won't because it would shoot down all his own theories. Nor, do I believe will most others that are comfortable with the pre-tribulation Rapture.
Oh, my, what a day it will be when these mis-led ones find out that they've spent most of their lives believing "Ring Around the Rosey Rapture Riddles".
Sure hope that some out of that bunch will care enough to do their own research. Here is a great place to start after having read their Bibles, first, of course. Mr. Ortiz refers to the Bible, pointing out that many words used by the pre-Tribbers to back their opinions mean exactly the opposite. Now, that would change everything, wouldn't it?
A very, very exciting book.
22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
Those that believe in Dispensations need to understand that the church DID NOT begin on the Day of Pentecost.
Joe Ortiz, in his book "The End Times Passover" gives the evidence that says:
Now, that the evidence has been given that "Called Out" (eccelsia) began right at the beginning of Abraham being called out of the Land of Ur, there is something else that needs to be understood. The body did not start at Pentecost.
It is correct for Bible teachers to support the unification of Gentiles and Jews into one body BUT here is the error: Who was grafted into whom? Was the Gentile believer grafted into the "Called Out Ones who were the Faith Believing Hebrew" or were the Called Out Ones grafted into the Gentile institution now called "The Christian Church"? It is like asking, "Which came first..the chicken or the egg?"
We already know that Abraham, a Hebrew, was the one man that was called out to be separated from the Gentiles around him. Out of Abraham, we have the Faith Believing Israel. Abraham and all of his Faith Believing generations had a Covenant with Almighty God based upon that faith.
The picture of Abraham being obedient by taking his son of Promise, Isaac and offering him to God shows the unwavering faith that Abraham had in his God. He walked the walk. It was at that time, when God stopped Abraham from taking the life of his son to be a sacrifice, that God told Abraham, "I will provide Myself". Abraham understood what that meant and so did the generations after him. They expected God to come in the flesh as the Messiah that would bring Salvation to the world.
Does this modern Christian Church really believe that the generations of Faith Believing Israeli weren't saved? Apparently so. They teach that the Jews/Israelites must become Christians in order to receive that Salvation. They teach that the Jew must be grafted into their Christian Religion. Most do not even understand the difference between an Israeli and a Jew.
Look what the Word of God teaches. It is quite different, to say the least.
Praise the Lord!
Nothing like biblical TRUTH to set one free! I absolutely second witness these biblical truths!
OPEN YOUR BIBLES PEOPLE! And read it for yourselves. It is the TRUTH! Don't believe it, then pray and read it and ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you to all understanding. IF, I say IF, you are a true believer that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and you have repented of your sins, all things are possible through our savior, including understanding of scripture....
Galatians 1:11.......But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel that was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
DON'T PUT THIS OFF! Look it up for yourselves in the Holy Scriptures, I pray for you now, do ye also for yourself!
"When Jesus told Peter that upon this rock I will build my church (Matthew 16:18), Christ was telling Peter on the Day of Pentecost, His already existing ecclesia would receive the edifying, strengthening or emboldening power from the Holy Spirit, in order for His already existing ecclesia to have the strength it never had before, (See Luke 24:49; Joel 2:28; Ephesians 1:13) In Matthew 16:18, the word build used by Jesus in this verse is the Greek verb oikodomeo which means to strengthen , edify, embolden.
I had misspelled the Greek verb oikodemeo with oikodmess.
PLEASE NOTE THE CORRECTION AS IT WOULD CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE GREEK WORD FOR "BUILD". THIS WORLD DENOTES A STRENGTHENING OF AN ALREADY EXISTING ECCLESIA RATHER THAN THE BUILDING OF A NEW ECCLESIA.
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
Regarding the differences between Jews and Israel, while God made many promises to Abraham, one being that all nations shall be blessed through Abraham, God also made other individual promises and prophecies to the individual twelve tribes of Israel.
One of these promises include that the tribe of Judah would continue to be the administrators of the Mosaic laws until the Messiah returns. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of people be." (Genesis 49:10) This specific prophecy included the continual teaching and administration of the laws He gave to Moses, which are now viewed by present day Jews as the only way of salvation.
However, as the minister of circumcision (servant of the Jews) for the truth of God, Jesus came to confirm all the promises made unto the fathers, the patriarchs of Israel, the nation of promise, which included the fulfillment of the Law. (Matthew 5:17)
In Romans 15:8, Paul is telling the Romans that Christ has become a servant of the Jews (those who rely on circumcision for salvation) on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promise made to Israel's patriarchs, so that the Gentiles, all of those who are not of Israel, may glorify God for His mercy. It is written:
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
If there is no Dispensation Period for just Gentiles, since it is very clear now that Israel and Gentiles are now one and the same, grafted into one ecclesia, , then you must come to the next issue and you should know by now, what it is.
Friends in Jesus Christ our Lord,
The bottom line is to pray for forgiveness and ask the Lord to come into your heart. Seek his face while there is still time. The bible will open up to all who ask for the holy spirit to guide them and comfort them.
The fact is, if you died in your sleep tonight, are you sure of your destination? Why not be sure?
ROMANS 10:13........For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
May God touch your heart,
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
What did Jesus Christ tell His disciples? "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 KJB. Did you notice that Jesus didn't say He came unto the House of Judah but unto the "LOST SHEEP" of the House of Israel? Where did Israel go? They scattered mainly to the north & west. From there they traveled further west and south.
As I reread this former post of June 29, 2014 called The Covenant With Many, Who Are the Many, I can see now a much deeper understanding of this group of people called Israel because of all of the Biblical evidence given by Joe Ortiz.. What an eye-opener it has been.
Since having begun to read Joe Ortiz book, End Times Passover, which he covers this topic so well, you wonder why you never understood all this before. He gives scripture after scripture of who the ecclisa include. It is both the Old Testament Called Out ones whom God chose including the Gentiles who joined them. The ecclisa has always been there since God first called Abraham out of the Land of Ur.. It was not created on Pentecost. What took place on Pentecost is that this Body ecclisa was endowed with Power and Comfort in the commission to go out and preach the Gosple. This means, those that call themselves the church and hold themselves separate from Israel are short-changing themselves. Is it so hard to understand?
Joe Ortiz gives the scriptures that show Southern Kingdom of Judah, whom includes the tribes Judah, Benjamin and the Levite, were to be separate from the others and keep the Laws. The tribe of Judah would continue to be the administrators of the Mosaic laws until the Messiah returns. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of people be." (Genesis 49:10) This specific prophecy included the continual teaching and administration of the laws He gave to Moses, which are now viewed by present day Jews as the only way of salvation. (This teaching by Joe Ortiz is covered in "This is so good and needs to be shared" http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com/
This brings to mind that the Tribe of Dan, out of whom will come Anti-Christ, have been making and administrating their own brand of Law down through the ages. That law comes right out of the Roman Empire. They are a jealous lot who have the intentions of stealing that sceptre given to Judah. They are a jealous lot who mean to have another temple in Jerusalem upon which their god will place his image. And why are we, the ecclisa helping them with our support? Because we, the Assembly, Congregation, ecclisa have been so duped by those that brought the gospel according to Rome.
The on-going debate of who is the true ecclisa can stop once and for all we can get our heads wrapped around God's complete plan. He will bring all to completeness when the Lord Jesus Christ returns. I want to add here that when Jesus, said on the cross, "It is Finished", He is speaking about the Blood Offering that was needed to reconcile His People, all of them, the ecclisa unto the Father. He was the First Fruit of that Harvest and the rest of the Harvest will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The Dead arise first. This is the Blessed Promise given to His Chosen. No group of ecclisa has ever been called out...they have all gone through tribulation. Only two individuals have been caught out of this world without seeing death, Enoch and Isaiah. Moses was buried by God.
If you read your Bible, you will see that the two sons of Joseph received the greatest blessings of possessing much land and wealth. In fact, after WWII, the two sons, did possess 95% of the Land Mass and wealth, including the Door-ways (ports) to these land masses. So, that prophecy was fulfilled. Who are Manasseh and Ephraim? As crazy as it may sound to you, the Bible's prophecy and history shows that the blessing was given to Great Britain (Ephraim) and the younger brother, Manasseh the United States, whom was born out of the Great Britain. The US is the greatest of the nations that make up the CommonWeath Nations. Does it surprise you to know that the USA is not an independent nation? They are the CommonWeath Nations? What Covenant? They are of the Covenant that God made to Abraham. There are no other nations that fulfill this promise given to Joseph's two sons.
What about Judah? Judah wasn't given that blessing. Judah, to this day, remains entrenched in the small area of the Southern Kingdom where sits Jerusalem, in the territory of Benjamin. Judah refused her Messiah and will stay apart until they can come to grips with the fact that Jesus Christ is their Messiah as well as the Messiah of those of the Northern Tribe who spread into the world, where they intermarried with Gentiles. It is said that they would one day say, "Blessed Is He That Comes In The Name of the Lord." It will take a lot of tribulation to cause them to look up and stop relying on their own understanding. So, truthfully, both Israel and Judah are in for further revelations. The House of Israel has been the single greatest fulfillment of spreading the Good News of God's Word. Now, they are beginning to realize just who they are. It is not the Jews that did this but the Northern Tribe of Israel. The Jews have hung to their scriptures but were blind to seeing their Messiah of which they told.
If you want to know the real truth of who you, the ecclisa are, then read the on-line book, The End Times Passover, furnished by this site...RaptureBiblePropechyForum...for free. This is a gift that Steven was able to get from Joe Ortiz for free. Take advantage of it.
PS Those that say, I do not understand the Spiritual significance of this, I ask you if you understand the earthy events correctly that must take place to usher in the Return of Jesus Christ. Have you understood of whom the ecclisa include? There is always something new that we can learn if we chose to learn, which will help all of our presently held theology to hone in on God's Truth One more thing, earthly Jerusalem is not the New Jerusalem Coming down; I understand that. Gerlinda
Complete article of June 29, 2014:
The Covenant With Many....who are the many?
A covenant is an agreement between two parties. There are two types of covenants: conditional and unconditional. A conditional or bilateral covenant is an agreement that is binding on both parties for its fulfillment. Both parties agree to fulfill certain conditions. If either party fails to meet their responsibilities, the covenant is broken and neither party has to fulfill the expectations of the covenant. An unconditional or unilateral covenant is an agreement between two parties, but only one of the two parties has to do something. Nothing is required of the other party.
The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants.
God determined to call out a special people for Himself through whom He would bring blessing to all the nations. The Abrahamic Covenant is paramount to a proper understanding of the kingdom concept and is foundational to Old Testament theology. (1) The Abrahamic Covenant is described in Genesis 12:1–3 and is an unconditional covenant. There are no conditions attached to it (no “if” clauses, suggesting its fulfillment is dependent on man). (2) It is also a literal covenant in which the promises should be understood literally. The land that is promised should be understood in its literal or normal interpretation—it is not a figure of heaven. (3) It is also an everlasting covenant. The promises that God made to Israel are eternal.
Now, here is where the problem lies in understanding who these special people are. Remember, this Covenant was unconditional so it does not depend upon what the Israelites did and did not do. God keeps His Word.
It seems that the promise of many children given to Abraham who were children of the Promise was going unfulfilled so Sarah took matters into her own hands and gave her Egyptian hand-maiden to Abraham. But, we know the story that later Sarah, in her old age, finally gave birth to Isaac who, legally, held the promise to the Land. And the First-born son and his mother Hagar were forced to leave (but not without their own blessing) Then the next generation through which this Covenant would pass came through Isaac who had twin sons. Again, we see a twist in the rule of The First Born. Isaac's first born Essau did not relish his right as the Keeper of the Stick that represented the legal owner of the Land. We know the story of how Jacob, with the help of his mother, managed to finagle this Stick that signified who the Rightful heir to the Land belonged, away from Essau. Please remember that these were twin boys, same mother and same father. It was really God's plan to have Jacob possess the Land but God kept his promise of blessing the other son with much land; in fact, much more land than Jacob inherited.
But, that is not the issue here. We know that Jacob's name was changed to Israel. Jacob had 12 sons. Let's quickly jump to Joseph who landed up in Egypt as a slave and ultimately the second in power to the Throne of Egypt. He married an Egyptian woman who had twin sons. The oldest was Ephraim and the youngest Manasseht. After Joseph once again met up with his father Jacob and his brothers,. Jacob, adopted Joseph's two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim, to share in Jacob's inheritance equally with Jacob's own sons. Again, the Land blessing was given to the younger son, Manasseh rather than Ephraim.
So, what does this all mean? It means after the Land of Israel (the name given to Jacob) became divided into two Kingdoms due to Solomon's great sins against the God of his fathers. The Northern Kingdom included the 10 tribes and the Southern Kingdom included Judah and Benjamin. Levi, the priestly tribe was part of all the tribes.
If you are still with me, please remember that the Northern Kingdom, called Israel, was conquered by the Assyrians and by and large scattered. Where did they scatter? Mainly to the north and west, thus into the Land of Russia and Europe, with it's many people. They were already out of the Land of Israel at the time of the coming of Jesus Christ.
The Southern Kingdom called Judah remained until after the time of Christ's Coming and fulfillment of the AD 70 destruction of their Temple. Jesus Christ visited Jerusalem, was constantly being challenged by the Sanhedrin, the religious body that held power in the Land. By, the way, that Court did not exist after AD 70 but came back to power in 2004. Isn't that telling about the days we now live?
When, in Daniel 27, it speaks about the Covenant being confirmed, Daniel is told that He (Christ) would come and confirm the Covenant made with many. Who are the many? And, right on time, Christ came, was anointed as The Prince of that Covenant at His Baptism in the Jordan. He began His 3 1/2 year early ministry that ended at His returning to His Father as he stood upon the Mt. Of Olives.
But what did Jesus Christ tell His disciples? "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 KJB Did you notice that Jesus didn't say He came unto the House of Judah but unto the "LOST SHEEP" of the House of Israel? Where did Israel go? That's right...north and west. These are your "many". If you read your Bible, you will see that the two sons of Joseph received the greatest blessings of possessing much land and wealth. In fact, after WWII, the two sons, did possess 95% of the Land Mass and wealth, including the Door-ways (ports) to these land masses. So, that prophecy was fulfilled. Who are Manasseh and Ephraim? As crazy as it may sound to you, the Bible's prophecy and history shows that the blessing was given to Great Britain (Ephraim" and the younger brother, (Manasseh) is the United States, born out of the Great Britain. Does it surprise you to know that the USA is not an independent nation? They are both of the CommonWeath Nations, the Nations of the Covenant. What Covenant? Go back to the top and read it again. There is no other nations that fulfill this promise given to Joseph's two sons.
What about Judah? Judah wasn't given that blessing. Judah, to this day, remains entrenched in the small area of the Southern Kingdom where sits Jerusalem, in the territory of Benjamin. Judah refused her Messiah and will stay apart until they can come to grips with the fact that Jesus Christ is their Messiah as well as the Messiah of those of the Northern Tribe who spread into the world, where they intermarried with Gentiles. So, truthfully, Israel doesn't know who she is but it will be revealed to them someday. The House of Israel has been the single greatest fulfillment of spreading the Good News of God's Word. It is not the Jews that did this but the Northern Tribe of Israel.
So, what is the problem? The Stick of Land Possession does belong to Israel (Lost Tribes). And while the leadership of Israel, the land, is not legal, many of the settlers are doing what they are suppose to do, go back and possess the land. But The Stick of Kingship belongs to Judah. So, those two sticks are not yet joined.
We have those who call themselves Jews, who are of the Synagogue of Satan, who are not genetically of the House of Israel at all but only in the fact that they became converts to the Religion of Babylonian Judaism, have they muddled the term of Jews so thickly that few can distinguish who is what and if the term is even correct. These are the Edomites, whose jealous determination to get what he thinks is his, which he believes was stolen by Israel, have intermarried with the Northern Tribes of Europe. This mixture of the Assyrian also includes the Roman, Greek, Tribe of Dan, who is left out of the inheritance because of apostasy. These are the present rulers of the world's nations which they created and divided up after WWII. These nations are bringing about their New World Order and their One World Religion that serves Satan. These make up the United Nations. Do you see it?
They are determined to rebuild the temple, put their demonic leader on the throne, claim the land for himself and rule the world as Satan had said he would do. And who is it that is helping this Zionist Movement?
So, think about the Covenant. Who was the only qualified person who could confirm that Covenant with His own coming? Is it A/C or is it Jesus Christ? Who is it, that by His death on the cross, paid the Redemptive Price? Was it A/C or was it Jesus Christ? Who is it that will come again to destroy these evil doers? Is it A/C or is it Jesus Christ?
Scripture and common sense tells you that this World System has done a masterful job of convincing the Christians that the one that will confirm the Covenant is A/C. And in order to convince the House of Israel (The Lost Sheep) that this is still in the future, the lie about a pre-tribulation is taught so that their eyes are on escaping the A/C instead of hanging onto the promise that Jesus Christ will not appoint His Sheep, whom He was sent to Redeem/Save, from the Wrath of God.
I hope you will look at the video enclosed here by David Smith. View it with a whole different mind-set; one that clearly is telling you that the two greatest nations ever to rule the world are the Two Covenant Nations who have been infiltrated by the United Nations/Edomites to steal the two sticks of Land Ownership and Kingship.
Only after the Return of Jesus Christ will these two sticks be united into One. It is scripturally wrong to say that they are united already.
People are not able to refute the scriptures that clearly expose the 7 year pre tribulation rapture as a LIE. So, they do what anyone who does not have scripture to refute the information in this book.
1. Personally attack the author:
2. Call him anti semitic
3. They take a line or two out of the book and twist it out of context and make lies to try and discredit the author.
This is done so many times when will people wake up to this tactic of so called believer of Jesus Christ.....
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Let me remind everyone of this scripture do you fear God?
If so then do you think maybe you should not attack falsely other believers?
If you are guilty of this do you think it might be worth posting an apology?
Do you think if you falsely accuse someone that it might be in YOUR best interest to publically apologize and repent?
Let your conscience be your guide.
Thank you to everyone who has supported this ministry of RaptureBibleProphecyForum and has NOT falsely accused or attacked the moderator or the contributors of this site.
The Church (ecclesia, Called Out Ones) have been around since God called out Abraham.
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
It has been said that Israel and the Church are two separate entities. While at one time, we may all have believed that, we cannot and will not continue to believe that false teaching. It has been drummed into our heads in order to make us believe there are two Dispensations; one for the Church and one for Israel.
What is wrong with the above teaching is that, it seems those that teach this, DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE JEWS.
The Church (ecclcesia, Called Out Ones) have been around since God called out Abraham.
At the Coming of Jesus Christ, as prophesied by Daniel, among others, The Redemptive price was paid. Jesus, Himself, declared it so, "It is Finished". The ecclesia, which is translated "assembly" denotes the whole body of the redeemed. All those whom the Father has given to Christ - the invisible universal church (Eph. 5:23, 25, 27, 29, Heb. 12:23) Before Christ became the Lamb of God, the ecclesia lived by faith. After the Lamb of God shed His Blood, the ecclesia live by grace purchased for us and faith that His Work will bring His return, which is preceded by the Dead being called out first and then those that remain will meet Him in the air.
For Fair Use, Discussion and Educational Purposes
Jude 1: 14, Even as Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied them: See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of Holy Ones to execute Judgement upon all..." . This is not speaking about the ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation of Believers) but is speaking of His Angels. This is the Day of Judgement and Wrath.
Just before the Lord's physical return with His Holy Ones to administer His Wrath, The Dead in Christ have risen first and then those that remain to MEET Him in the Air. This does not happen 7 years prior or even 3 1/2 years prior but just prior to the Wrath of God. Notice, they meet him in the air.. while those coming with the Lord come down with Him. Also, notice that the Lord Cometh with Ten Thousand of His Angels. These are His Warriors that will fight other Spiritual Warriors of the enemy. The resurrected ecclesia are not warriors nor are they the ones v.15 " to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all of the defiant words, ungodly sinners have spoken against him." NIV
We must remember that the judgement of the ungodly belongs to the Lord, not the ecclesia.
Now, if the ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation) can understand that the ecclesia is made up of both Gentile and Israel, then they can stop claiming there needs to be a separate Dispensation for the Gentile and the Israeli. After all, they are ONE GROUP.
It is the Jew of Judah/Benjamin (Levite priests) that need to come to the saving grace of their Messiah, not the Gentile & Israeli congregation of believers who are all of the ecclesia which includes the Old Testament saints that lived by faith.
There is just no reasoning behind the belief that a Rapture must happen so that the ecclesia dispensation can be finished and God can concentrate on the Jews. The ecclesia is here on earth up to the time of the Wrath of God. The Time of the Gentiles is not speaking about the ecclesia. It is speaking about the unbelieving nations that no longer have control over the city of Jerusalem.
Therefore, there is no need to cite these Holy Ones/Angels as being the church saints that return with Jesus Christ as a reason for a pre-tribulation Rapture.
All scripture that cite references to "holy ones' as accompanying the Lord at The Second Advent more accurately identify God's holy angels, not the Christian Church. This deduction makes more sense and harmonizes more so with other scripture, thereby eliminating the need of having to justify varying Tribulation theories that have no sound scriptural base whatsoever. Holy ones spoken of in I Thess. 3:13, Jude 14 and Zechariah 14:4 is not identifying the Christian Church but God's angels.
Jude quotes from a prophecy of Enoch; Jude 1:14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints.” KJV. Jude’s reference the Book of Enoch is not exact, which does seem to be contrary to the conclusion he quoted from the book of Enoch..
The concept of ten thousand saints is not unique. In Deut. 33:2 And he said: "The LORD came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints; from His right hand came a fiery law for them.”
The word for saints here is actually qodesh in Hebrew- meaning holy ones; hagiais muriasin, literally, "in or among holy myriads." The saints (holy ones) can mean angels or faithful human beings, or both.Jude 14 The word for ten thousand, is representation of a tremendous number- myriads, it has the meaning of the highest number at that time that one could calculate.
Creatures located in Heaven are described in Dan 7:10 as “A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.”
Rev 5:11 “Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands. ” The bible teaches that heaven has a vast population of both angels and people- saints. These are those (either one or both groups) who will come with him when he comes to earth to judge and set up his kingdom.
Jude was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21), we know that what he quoted from Enoch was true. This is confirmed by the fact that the same idea about the Lord returning with His holy ones to render judgment found elsewhere in the Bible, Zechariah 14:5, Isaiah 66:15, and Psalm 96:13, Deut. 33:2.
The bottom line is that using the word "Saints" here is not proof of those "Holy Ones" being a pre-tribulation group known as the Ecclesia (Assembly, Congregation/Church)
To emphasis this truth, let me once again remind the reader that adequate proof has been given by Joe Ortiz in his book, "The End Time Passover" that the believers of both OT and NT included Israel with the Gentiles grafted into Root, Jesus Christ.
The End Time Passover can be read on line on this site.
It was hard for me to put aside the teachings that I had heard all of my Christian walk.. that being... Israel, the nation was the fulfillment of God's promise of a "Place for my people, Israel and I will plant them so that they can have a home of their own and no longer be disturbed." II Sam. 7:10
While it is true, Israel, the nation had to once again be back as a nation in order to fulfill all the other prophecies that speak of an A/C and False Prophet who will rebuild Solomon's Temple for their own, deceive the Jews & unsaved Gentiles into accepting it as the true fulfillment of God's plan: the complete plan of God encompassed much more than a mere earthly land brought back through the efforts of man.
I, like so many others, believed that I would be taken in some pre-Trib. Rapture UP to Heaven where I would dine at the Lord's table for 7 long years. My focus used to be UP instead of what the Word of God clearly tells us. It tells us that the Bride of Christ would come down. And we, the ecclesia were not the bride.
It was also hard for me to even concentrate on the subject of The New Jerusalem coming down. None of it ever made sense to me but now I know why.
We had been taught that the Church is the Bride of Christ. Others taught that the Church is the Body of Christ. Again others taught that it was both. Like I said, none of it made real sense at all. You just nod your head and try to figure it out on your own.
Now, that I know, without a shadow of a doubt that the Ecclesia, Assembly, Congregation includes all people of faith, from the time when Abraham was called out by God right on through to the present day Called Out Ones that include both Israel and Gentile that believe upon the Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Now, I am able to put the correct terms on who is whom.
While Theorist have taught that the church is the Bride of Christ; it is just not so. The ecclesia are the "living stones, who are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Christ Jesus.
I Chronicles 17:9-14 tells us "The Lord will build a house for you, when they die, the Lord will raise up offspring to suceed you, one of your own sons (Jesus Christ).....". He is building His ecclesia. The He is not King David nor Solomon as many theorist teach. Look at II Sam 7:14 KJV "I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:"
They use this scripture to say it cannot be Jesus Christ because it speaks of committing iniquity. However, as Joe Ortiz points out in his book, the End Time Passover, the word for "committing iniquity or when he does wrong, I will punish Him. NIV, the Hebrew word for this is avoh . The NASB concordance states that avah is a denominative verb from the masculine noun "Avon", which means "bearing the punishment for iniquities of others".
The point is that the promise of salvation given to Abraham that one who would come through his seed; eventually down to David's Seed would build and rule God's House.
Who or what is God's House? It is the Called Out Ones? The ecclesia made up of Abraham, all of his seed and the Gentile that grafted themselves into them. Of course, we know that the House of Judah has kept itself apart from that because they refused to accept that seed as their Messiah. So, for the time being, it is the House of Israel/Gentiles, whom spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
These are the "Living Stones". This brings to mind why it is that God was so insistent on when an earthly altar and temple were built, they were not to be cut or hewn out by man. But, they had to be of the natural stone found on earth. Do you see what He was getting at?
We have man now re-creating God's own creation, mutating the natural DNA instead of leaving it in it's natural state. This is Satan's attempt it not only mimic God but to destroy God's plan. I believe this is a connection to the Temple of God, the living stones, the body of Christ.
Solomon built the earthly Temple of Worship. Christ Jesus is building His Temple, His living Body on earth made up of all those that have already passed on in faith, who are waiting for that Resurrection Day, when they, along with the living, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air.
So, now that we know the ecclesia are not the Bride of Christ, who is the Bride? When Jesus told His disciples that they could not go where He was going; He was going to prepare a place for them, He was speaking about the Abode, the New Jerusalem which shall come down. It is the future home of all of Christ's Body.
This glorious edifice will house a community of God's Called Out Ones, which is now being built by His Son Jesus Christ. This priesthood community will be housed in the true Promised Land, New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb, which is The Holy City of God.
Now, doesn't that explain all the more clear why we meet the Lord in the Air? We don't go all the way up to Heaven, stay there for a period of time and then come down. NO, NO! If we are dead/asleep, we will rise first and then be joined by the living who will be changed into incorruptible and thus we will join the Lord in the air.
The Lord will make a new heaven and a new earth and thus we will be with the Lord forever and ever.
Please read Joe Ortize's Book, "The End Time Passover". This chapter 12 is the lesson on The New Jerusalem.
PS Notice how that chapter is #12 and the foundations of this New Jerusalem is 12 with 12 gates?
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
Here is a quote from "Why Christians Will Suffer "Great Tribulation" by Joe Ortiz.
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
We are a people who love myths, traditions, Easter eggs and Santa Claus. This is not great preparation for understanding and preparing for of great "Tribulation" or an "End-times Passover." People need to read Joe Ortiz' books- NOW!
Jesus is telling His disciples that one of the biggest horrors of that period will be great signs and miracles by false prophets and many False Christ who will attempt to deceive the chosen ones of God. Many of these signs and miracles will be especially designed to fool even Christians into believing that Jesus has returned; however, the spirit-filled believers will be able to see through the ruse, barely!
Notice the word "Barely"? There is a very good reason for that word to be used. The technology to fool people is so advanced that only someone who is ground in the TRUTHS of God's Word in a solid Biblical manner will be able to sort through the Smoke and Mirrors. For instance, take a look at this Illuminati Playing Card that is describing the what will transpire when "their Christ' shows up.
This role-playing game called the "Illuminati -- New World Order", or "INWO" is proof that the Illuminati plan to produce Antichrist and it was well known long before 1995, when the game was distributed. Too many details are presented by these cards too close to the actual event to be accidental. The game depicts the events of 9/11 quite accurately and it depicts the planned events of bio-terror that are filling our daily news.
While people like us who are aware of the events being orchestrated are called Conspiracy Nuts, it is the Illuminati themselves who have been conspiring to produce their New World Order. Would you believe they even have a card that depicts the Rapture?
Here is a quote from the Cutting Edge:
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
The Lord asked Peter, "Who do you say I am?" Luke 9:20. After Peter made the confession of who Christ is and that he loved Him, The Lord goes on to point out that "He" would build His ecclesia upon the Rock (Himself), not Peter nor upon any one location, which in this case, happened to be up at the very location, at the base of Mt. Hermon...Bainis Falls.
That is where the Fallen Angels had descended. It is there, where the huge cave entrance to the large Mount/Rock is located. It, has a "gateway" inside down into the pit of Hell. It was a Pagan/Roman place of worship to the god Pan..
How fitting that Jesus would take Peter to that very location where the Fallen Angels first appeared and which is where they had their conversations with Enoch, the Scribe. Enoch took their petition, begging for forgiveness to the Almighty Father, but were refused. The 200 leaders of these Fallen Angels are chained up to the coming Judgement Day.
So, this whole occasion was a testimony of who Jesus Christ is, The Great I Am, Himself, who had called out His ecclesia right from the get go when He called out Abraham from among the pagans in the Land of Ur. He has been there all the time, through each trial and era that the Calling Out have gone through. And now that God had become man and was soon to offer Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice to redeem them from the pollution at the hands of Satan and the Fallen Angels, He, rightly, took his disciples to the very spot that these Fallen Angels had descended upon... as a witness, not only to the apostles... but to the under-world that it didn't matter how they have set themselves up, He, the Son of God, had come to set men free......for" Many are called but few are Chosen".
The Word "Christian" was first used in Antioch where the pagans used the term for those that followed Christ. It was, in reality, a degradatory term which has stuck.
To imply that the Israel had to become Christian is such a play on word games in order to pull the wool over the eyes of those that call themselves Christian but do not read the scripture readings for themselves and put it together. . ( Aramic Bible in Plain English - Matthew 15:24) "But he answered and said to them, “I am not sent except to the sheep that have strayed from the house of Israel.” The other versions say the same thing.
It is pretty plain that Israel, the Northern Kingdom, which had dispersed into all the world is the Lost Sheep, to whom Christ sent the believing disciples gathered from the Land of Israel; "Go, preach to them and gather them into the fold." is a clear message. The story of the Good Shepherd is a prime example of Him going out to reach the one that is lost and carry him back into the Shepherd's fold. Any Gentile that got attached to Israel became a part of that fold, "Congregation" (ecclesia).
The Gentile Church does not save Israel.....it is through the Lost Sheep of Israel that the Gentile was allowed to become a part of God's Called Out Ones, the ecclesia and became saved. Why is that so hard to believe?
I'll tell you why...the present day church has been brain-washed into believing that "they" are the primary Chosen One when it is the other way around . The Modern Church does not want to believe this truth; they have been convinced and continue to be convinced that salvation only comes through the Gentile Church. To put it into it's proper context would take away their self-imposed importance.
It also destroys the reason for a pre-tribulation rapture for a Gentile Church so God can get on with the business of dealing with the Jews. Now really, God needs a Gentile Church, which isn't even the complete ecclesia, to do this?
Again, I ask the question. Was the Body of Christ the Called Out Ones that He called "The Lost Sheep of Israel" or did He say, "Go out and save the Gentiles? Did I miss something? Is there scripture that implies that the Body of Christ was the Gentiles???
I believe there are many scriptures in Romans and Hebrews that speaks of the Natural Branch and the Grafted In Branch. The Gentiles thought they were the true Branch and the natural Israel thought that the Gentiles were suppose to keep their ways of doing things. Paul instructed them that they were one in the Root, Jesus Christ. The trouble the Church has today is not being able to distinguish who is whom. They are one, the Body of Christ....not the Bride of Christ.
If it needs to come down to a spouse, then it is speaking of the unfaithful wife with whom God had made a marriage contract, whom the 12 Tribes of Israel, as a whole, were unfaithful to their husband and went whoring after other gods. But that is another subject, separate yet connected. Ten of those 12 Tribes are being found and brought into the Sheepfold....along with the Gentiles that attached themselves to the Tribes.
Replacement Theology is the term that is used for any group that tried to take the place of Israel. And the thing that is nuts about this is that most teachers/preachers that use that term don't even understand whom the Bible says is Israel.
The Gentile Church (whoever that is suppose to be) should not be teaching that they need to be removed before Jesus Christ will deal with the "JEWS" because it is not true.
Their problem is that they do not know the difference between Israel (those of the Northern Kingdom, who in large part, accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior) and the Jews, which to this day, still are the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and the Levites who did not accept Him as their Savior.
They remain divided on the issue of the Messiah. But God, in His Wisdom knew all of this and even let us know this fact when the scriptures tell us that Jesus said He would not return until they called out to Him.
Gentile Church....you do know that Judah (the Jews) are the separate stubborn part of God's Calling, that have still not had their blinders removed and practice their OT religion, don't you? If you do not, then read Romans, Hebrews and go back to Acts and get the complete story. You will find out there was a reason, why they were kept in the dark, you could say. They had their role to play out for the End Time Prophecies to be fulfilled.
The Tribe of Judah, the Southern Kingdom, hold the Royal Scepter, which is jealously wanted by the The Tribe of Dan
Is Judah(Jews) the proper name to call all of Israel? A hundred times NO.
I can attest to how hard this fact is to comprehend because I've been there, done it, believed it so hard as to put up my stubborn wall of defense "that all of Israel is Jewish". Wow! How wrong I was. Thankfully, God gave me enough of a mind-set not to cling to an old teaching just because it's been around for a few hundred years. I didn't learn this over-night...several people were involved in opening my eyes to this revelation. Praise God, for that understanding because now, the other pieces to this End Times Mystery makes perfect sense...it fits.
Only Judah is the tribe that can have that title of Jews applied to it. Abraham was a Hebrew. Isaac was a Hebrew and so was Jacob until his name was changed to Israel .
But only the oldest son Judah is rightfully known as a Jew . Because the world has muddled these terms together, we have a church that does not even know the difference and in it's ignorance accuses others who do know the difference of two issues.
1. They call those that do not agree with them, that all those living in the land, who are not Arabs, must be the Jews.
2. Because you dare to correct them or use the correct terminology, you get branded as being Anti-Semitic.
The day will come when God will reveal to the ecclesia who are of the Tribes of Israel and who are the Gentiles that were grafted in. It will be a surprise to most, I believe.
Because Judah and Benjamin were united in the Southern Kingdom, in the land allotted to them, that is where they remain today, in unbelief of their Messiah The Temple Mount is located in the Benjamin allotment of land.
The Tribe of Benjamin are also known as the fierce left-handed fighters. They held special distinction in the days of old and I am sure they will, repeat their history again in the near future. The name given to them by their father Jacob is "A Ravenous Wolf". " Benjamin shall ravin like a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night, he shall divide the spoil." Gen. 49:27.
You see, it is the Tribe of Dan that will produce the A/C and try to convince those that are looking for another temple, that he is their Messiah. But he must have the blood-line of the Tribe of Judah. When he presents himself within a human body, having the blood of the Tribe of Judah, they will be convinced for a little while but then, the blinders will be lifted and that light-bulb moment will happen for them.
The blood of every person coming to Israel to live is tested; that is for a reason. Apparently, there is much to be said about the blood-line that proves who is qualified and who is not. The Shroud of Turin has been used in this DNA manipulation that will pull the wool over the eyes of the Tribe of Judah, Benjamin & the Levite priesthood who are preparing for future Temple Worship once the temple is built.
The moral of this whole story is: Do not pit=guess God and His plan upon the understanding of a Gentile Church that is willingly to skip town, you could say, because they've been deceived into believing IT is something special. Or, that God would not put this Gentile Church through Great Tribulation.
The Church/ecclesia is not Gentile and is not more special than the Israelites, who were the first Gospel Messengers.
I know, yes, I know, they have been told that the Jews would not accept the message so now they are separate. That is true if they are talking about the True Jews .
But, they are wrong if they are talking about the Israelites . The ecclesia is made up of both Israel and Gentile and will be here through Great Tribulation.
If you don't believe me, turn to Revelation 12:13-17 NKJ
"Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Who is the woman that gave birth to the Male Child : It is not the same one that are called, "The rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
The Tribe of Judah gave birth to the DNA lineage of which came Noah, Boaz, King David, Nathan & the Mother of Jesus. This lineage did not include Solomon.
There seems to be two groups of people here, doesn't there? Yet, this seems to be over-looked as referring to just the Jews when it is talking about the ecclesia (both Israel and Gentile) that keep the commandemnts of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There-fore, common sense thrown in with all the scriptures in Hebrews, Romans and Acts, should convince anyone, really wanting to know the truth, that the Ecclesia is here doing what it is suppose to do until their time to share their testimony of Jesus Christ is over.
Then they will be called up to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the Air. Some will be Martyred. Some will die in other ways. Some will be protected for whatever purpose God has for them. But, for sure, they won't be Raptured until the Dead in Christ rise first and then the living will be changed and join the Lord in the Air.
Nothing else even makes sense and God is not a God of Confusion.
PS To further understand who the twelve tribes of Israel are and to fully understand Replacement Theology that continues to be misunderstood by the
Clergy and the Laity in these Last Days, please read the book by Joe Ortiz called "End Times Passover".
link: End Times Passover
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
How long is an Hour? I'm not speaking of the hour on the clock, which is 60 minutes.
I'm thinking of this portion in Joe Ortiz book, "Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation"
To the angel in the church of Philadelphia, the Lord acknowledges this congregation as being faithful to the name of Jesus, even though their outward strength has dwindled from the persecutions. These are the called out ones who have endured patiently throughout their existence, keeping the command of the Lord. He tells them that they will not be victimized by the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world for testing. He exhorts them to continue to hold on to what they have (faith in the Lord Jesus Christ) so no one will take their due reward, the crown of life. To those that overcome, the Lord will write on
In that above paragraph, it is clear that these living Saints will not be victimized during that hour of testing coming upon the whole world.
Then in this next scripture, below, we read of the ones that seem to be the ones that will be doing the victimizing/persecution of the Living Saints for the hour that they are given to rein as kings with the Beast.
Revelation 17:12 (KJV) " And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. "
And then there is this reference of how in one hour great wealth has been brought to ruin . Apparently, it is these ten kings under the Beast who have, through their terror upon earth's inhabitants, is now reaping the results of their evil reign.
Revelation 17:18 "In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!' "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off."
How ever long that hour is that is coming upon the earth, it is clear that the Beast and his ten kings are involved. But even more apparent is that the Church of Philadelphia, whom the Lord had set an "Open Door" which no one is able to shut, is still on earth.
Now, what do those that believe the true Saints (their Gentile Church) will be taken out before there even is a 7 years of Tribulation, have to say about that? I don't think there can be any argument that these Saints mentioned are the most qualified, is there?
1. They are given the highest praise of the 7 churches.
2. No one, even the powers of Hell, will be able to close the door of their Salvation, so there is nothing to keep them from being raptured before the hour of Temptation comes upon the world. Yet, there is no rapture or taking out mentioned.
3. They are even promised that these of the Synagogue of Satan, which we now, openly refer to as, the Illuminati, will come to bow before before their feet.
Revelation 1: 7-9 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens: "I know your works. Look, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying--I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Joe tells in his book:
Therefore, the called out ones need be ready and willing to lay aside everything (material possessions, jobs, friends, and even family) and pick up their crosses and follow Him. Paul tells us what it‘s going to be like in those days, which will include a spiritual malaise which (to a great degree) already exists at this precise moment: But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. Notice the last bit of advice??? Have nothing to do with them. But here is what we are to do:
"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry, (2 Timothy 4:2-5, NIV)
Are you at peace with yourself, knowing that you have done all that you can do to bring others to the Saving Grace of Christ?
Are you carrying the Cross that has been given to you by the Lord? This is not the cross of making your own life better. In fact, it is a cross that, usually does the opposite.
As Joe points out:
As he begins to close his second letter to Timothy, Paul knows that his death is soon at hand; although weary, tired, exhausted, in much pain from years of beatings, floggings, and many other sorrows. Knowing and expecting to be executed soon by his persecutors, he is at peace, knowing the mission Christ gave him of evangelizing the gospel has been completed. He knows his reward will be given to him on that glorious day (not any sooner than) when Christ appears; but, yet he continues to exhort his fellow servants in the Lord about the rewards they will also receive, on that great day, as He promised:
For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day – and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing, (2 Timothy 4:6-8, NIV).
The Greek word for poured is spendo, which literally means and is used of one whose blood is poured out in a violent death for the cause of God.
This may be a shock to many but to a few, who have been paying attention to what is the drive behind these End Day events, it is no surprise at all. More surprising is the fact that most Americans just do not give a rip about the Satanic Drive behind those that are swearing to come to your borders to behead you.
Today, there was an article posted on this forum that should be very disturbing to anyone that is the least bit aware, that Rome has, not only invented this group of terrorist, but is determined to use them against Christians and Jews.
Concrete Evidence ! Vatican Wrote Koran !
There will be martyrs among the living Saints who await the Coming of the Lord. There will be those who are set aside, with special protection and power, to do the will of God in His Divine Purpose. There will be others who will probably die from the pestilence coming upon earth and through the catastrophes already greatly increasing upon earth. Only God knows our destiny; He knows what you will do with this information.
Whatever it is that God has for you; the sooner you know that you will not be caught out in a pre-tribulation Rapture, the sooner you will settle that matter it in your heart and mind therefore better able to set yourself about the business of building the Armour of God to withstand the wiles of the Devil. Your only food may well be the Word of God hidden within you.
Joe Ortiz book
Link: End Times Passover
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
There will be few that make it to the end; those that believe they will be Raptured out before the A/C is revealed are being deceived by Lying Spirits, which is something they would never admit are what is behind their unyielding spirit to follow the lie out of Hell.
Looking at this again, ought to show, that the Illuminati are very aware of a Rapture when the Dead in Christ Rise First and then those living shall meet the Lord in the Air, so what did they do?
You can be sure that the Powers That Be will use their technology to fool people into thinking they are hearing the command to go out into the desert and there, they will be caught up.
This caught up may well be the demonic technology that lifts multitudes into another sphere and it isn't into the New Jerusalem either.
They fooled millions of people into thinking they saw two plans flying into the Twin Towers, didn't they? In fact, multitudes of Christians still believe the official lie and that is because they are uninformed about the workings of the enemy, therefore judge all things through their own limited understanding.
The Word of God tells us about not going out to the desert if we are told He is there. It also tells us exactly how He will return and every eye shall see Him no matter where they may be.
You May Just Be Part of the Problem
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
I ask you to read this out of Jeremiah and then I will ask you a question.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
Do you see that God has said He would make a New Covenant with The House of Israel and The House of Judah ?
Do you see what you don't see? Where is The House of the Gentiles ?
Could it be that Joe Ortiz is absolutely correct when he did the study in the Word of God that shows that the ecclesia is Spiritual Israel? And that it includes all those Gentiles that joined her....whom were grafted into the Natural Branch, whose Root is the Lord Jesus Christ , whom always was and will be?
You know what that means, those of you that believe the Church (ecclesia) began on the Day of Pentecost, don't you? You are wrong!
The fault is not yours for believing this since that is the way your church leaders taught you; the fault is yours if you continue to believe this ERROR because you refuse to search for the truth.
The ecclesia is not a Gentile Church but goes all the way back to the days when God had given His Chosen People the first Covenant that pointed to Jesus Christ , whom paid the Ransom Price that defeated Satan's hold upon the people of the earth. His blood was spilled for ALL those that are of the ecclesia, be they Israel or the Gentiles that were allowed to be grafted into the fold.
So, could it be that the" Time of the Gentiles" being over is speaking of the End of Gentile Powers dominating Jersualem? Absolutely, that is what it is speaking about. And when did that take place?
The whole of Jerusalem was taken back from the Gentiles (Jordan) in the Six Day War in 1967. The last 40 years will be over when Israel begins her Jubilee Year 2016/17.
Now, going back to the above scripture; doesn't it speak about the fact Jersualem will never be taken again but belong to Israel; it is the City of their God?
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
I expect that the Anti-Christ and the Power behind him will continue to make all the attempts to totally dominate the whole city and declare Jerusalem to be the capital of Palestinians but according to God's Word, it will not succeed. Our Heavenly Father, through the Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ has set the borders there-of.
And if He, The Word , said that the Time of the Gentiles is over, it is over.
Although Rome is taking over the city piece by piece and even now, through it's allies, their Moslem brethren, whom have even gone up to the Upper Room where the Passover Supper was held, to worship, kneeling upon their prayer rugs and facing East to pray to Allah (whom we know is Lucifer), they will never control the city of Jerusalem again.
Even though they built their Masonic Temple upon the Temple Mount, it will not survive the Wrath of God upon them who dare to divide the City.
Judah will not see their Messiah as having already come until such time as things are so severe that they cry out for Him, " For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord Matthew 23:39.
The House of Israel and the House of Judah remain divided until the Lord brings the two back together.
Do you see, Oh Ye, Gentile Church, if you are a part of Spiritual Israel, you are here for the long haul because Israel is sealed here until the time that they will be gathered from the four corners of the earth prior to the Wrath of God coming upon those that dare to divide His Land.
I leave you with a thought.
When you divide yourselves into a Gentile Church, aren't you dividing God's Word that says Israel is His? And blessed are those Gentiles who have been allowed to be grafted into the Natural Branch of the Olive Tree , whose Root is Messiah Jesus Christ.
If you are not a part of Spiritual Israel and adhere to a pre-7 year Tribulation Theory, you are part of the problem.
Please read Joe Ortiz Book, "The End Times Passover" which is provided freely on this site for your edification. It is a wonderful eye-opener.
If there is no Dispensation or separation from the original Israel, then why would God rapture the eccelsia out seven years before Jesus Christ returns????
Do you notice when this Rapture Card is presented?
It is when the tape runs out.
The joke is on those that believe the lie.
Even as they lied to you, they printed up Cards that showed the truth.
It comes at the End, when the Elect are gathered out of the Four Corners of the Earth.
It comes when the Dead in Christ Rise First and then the Living shall be changed to meet the Lord in the air.
The Holy Ones are His angels.
The ecclesia (Assembly, congregation, Church} are those that meet Him and His Holy Ones Coming down to Pour out His Wrath upon an unbelieving world.
It more sense every day and how nice it would be to know that another Christian out there has grasped this truth.
The Church did not begin at Pentecost