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The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

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While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)

 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."  I Corin. 15:52

The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

  9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS



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Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.






John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things

Ps 122:6

Psa. 122:6   Pray  shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters):  prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.


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Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation


words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near (vs. 10). Let‘s read this group of scriptures carefully, then we will ask a very important question:
Then he told me, ―Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.‖ 12 ―Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the City. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 I, Jesus have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.‖ 17 The Spirit and the bride say, ―Come!‖ And let him who hears say, ―Come!‖ Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whomever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life, (Revelation 22:10-17, NIV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
In verses 10 and 11, we see the angel speaking to John about not sealing the words of the prophecy of the book and telling John to let people continue in their ways. In verses 12 and 13, the angel is no longer speaking to John but we do see a parenthetical exhortation directly from the Lord concerning the Christian‘s reward and the Lord‘s reiteration of His true nature. Then in verse 14 and 15, we see Jesus continuing an obvious spiritual exhortation concerning the washing of our robes, and about those who never will be allowed access to the ―Tree of Life.‖ In verse 16, we see another exhortation from Jesus confirming that it is He who has sent His ―angel to testify to you (John and all believers) these things for the churches.‖ This clearly states that from the beginning to the end of this great book, Revelation is intended to be read, adhered to and believed upon by the totality of the ecclesia, which is comprised of all believers! This also clearly indicates that the some of the messages paint pictures of events past and many that have not yet been fulfilled! Considering that the Book of Revelation was written about two thousand years ago, and that obviously the ecclesia has not been caught up to have that meeting in the air with Jesus Christ, there is no way that we could currently see the church in heaven, even if were to concede that it were the Bride of the Lamb. This fact brings up a very important and extremely interesting aspect in a verse of scripture cited so far, which is found in verse 17. Let‘s read it again:
The Spirit and the bride say, ―Come!‖ And let him who hears say, ―Come!‖ Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. (Revelation 22:17, NIV). [Bold is by the author, solely for emphasis]


This scripture should be of extreme importance to Pre-Tribulation escape theorists, in particular, those who advocate the theory that the Christian Church will be caught up before the so-called Great Tribulation and goes to heaven to be with the Lord to participate (supposedly as the bride) in the great wedding mentioned in Revelation 19:7, 8. If we are to accept their theory that the Christian Church already has escaped the tribulation because the word ―church‖ is not mentioned after Chapter 3:22, as Lindsey, Walvoord, et al claim, how can they conclude that the Christian Church is seen as the Bride in Revelation 22: 17. If the exhortation in this particular verse is spoken in context as part of John‘s concluding narrative, which (at the time John wrote Revelation) was an exhortation to the ecclesia currently on earth, how can theorists explain the Bride being mentioned in Revelation 22:17? More importantly, if the warning by the angel (at this juncture) to John is a message intended for the Christian Church, why is it we see in verse 17 the spirit and the bride (supposedly the church) extolling this ―Come‖ exhortation to the bondservants, whom we now know are none other than God‘s ecclesia? Are theorists telling us that at this juncture (when John was writing down the visions of the Book of Revelation) that the Christian Church (supposedly the bride) was already in heaven?
The first three chapters are the beginning of the Revelation narrative, prior to John‘s deliverance of the letters to the seven churches, and prior to the beginning of John‘s visions, which don‘t begin until Chapter 4. The ending of the Revelation narrative is found to continue again at Revelation 22:8, where John states that he is ―the one who heard and saw these things (vs. .‖ From verse 8 to verse 21, John is not experiencing visions anymore; he is now providing the concluding narrative of the accounts of all the visions he saw. In his final message (vs. 10-21), John is not documenting the end of history of the world, as if all these things had already come to pass. He is now concluding the narrative of the Book of Revelation (including several exhortations by Jesus in verses 12, 13, 15); and the conclusion of this narrative includes a message from the spirit and the bride to the ecclesia, which say “Come.” If this narrative includes and sees the spirit and the bride (which theorists postulate is the church) exhorting the Christian bondservants to ―come,‖ how can theorists conclude that the Christian Church is the Bride of the Lamb? Are theorists claiming that part of the Christian Church (as the Bride) was already in heaven when the angel gave John the visions, and was then extolling them the message to come and partake the water of life for those who thirst (who are members of the church) to ―Come?‖ The verse immediately before this profound statement (And the spirit and the Bride say come) clearly tells us to whom this message is intended for:
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life


freely, Revelation 22:16-17, KJV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
Once again, if the message contained in the Book of Revelation is intended for the bondservants (another name for those who comprise the ecclesia), and the Christian Church is supposed to be seen by theorists in the book only through Chapter 3, and then raptured between the end of Chapter 3 and before the beginning of Chapter 5, how can the Bride (supposedly the Christian Church) already be seen (supposedly in heaven) alongside the Spirit in verse 17 of Chapter 22, urging the Christian Church to ―Come‖? How can we see the ecclesia (supposedly the Bride) being spoken of in this verse, which is the ending part of John‘s narrative in the Book of Revelation?
Also, for those who claim that the Christian Church is the City of God, how can this city (supposedly the church) be viewed as being in heaven and at the same time called out ones are on earth looking for a city that is to come down from heaven (Hebrews 13:14)? As we stated before, the Bride of the Lamb is not the Christian Church, but rather, it is the Holy City of God, New Jerusalem, the present dwelling of God, which will descend when He returns, as it is so beautifully stated in Hebrews 13:14:
For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the City that is to come, (Hebrews 13:14, NIV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
If the wrath, plagues, vials and all the other horrors prophesied in the Book of Revelation (after Chapter 3) are painting only a picture of punishment due solely for the unsaved, and, as theorists contend, will also include a special wrath program for Jacob‘s descendants and/or unrepentant Jews, those members of the tribe of Judah from the genetic Israel nation, then Christians should rip Revelation out of the Bible and toss it to the wind. Why would they need to read it if it didn‘t pertain to them? If, however, the totality of Revelation is intended for the called out ones, who are in fact joint heirs in the promises made to faith-believing Israel, it is then the most important message of our day. It is a message that should quicken our hearts not to fear, but to rejoice in the knowledge that God will not only rescue His ―bondservants,‖ but protect them from the wrath that will rain on all of those who rejected His gift of salvation. If a pre-tribulation escape to heaven appears remote or unlikely, the called out ones need not be saddened; rather, they should be rejoicing as did Paul, Peter, Stephen and the millions of other bondservants who ―ran the good race‖ and brought many more lost souls to the fold with an attitude of boldness!
The totality of the Book of Revelation, as stated earlier, is an awesome array of symbolic clusters that provide much insight to past, present and the future, and of tribulation, judgments and visions of God‘s wrath. Unfortunately, too many scholars and theorists (in vain attempts) have tried to pinpoint times and dates, persons and places and events with little success in consistency and continuity.


Since there is no mutually agreed doctrine concerning the book of Revelation by the totality of Christendom, it is safe to conclude that no one person (or doctrinal camp) has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt as to when, where, how and what exactly is going to happen. However, one continuously resounding theme is extolled throughout the Bible: Therefore keep watch, because you do not know what day your Lord will come, (Matthew 24:42, NIV). However, in 1 Thessalonians 5, the called out ones are reminded that they will not be caught off guard regardless of what happens, especially concerning the Day of the Lord:
Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, ―Peace and safety,‖ destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Thessalonians. 5:1-9, NIV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
It is at this point that we feel compelled to reiterate the difference between God‘s wrath and the so-called period of great tribulation. Theorists contend that the phrase great tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:21, 29 and Revelation 7:14 will include all of God‘s wrath (vials, bowls, etc.) predicted throughout the Book of Revelation. Therefore, if the church is not appointed to wrath, it therefore must mean it has been caught up to heaven to escape this so-called seven year ordeal. Theorists contend that the entire seven-year duration that supposedly encompasses the so-called Great Tribulation will be filled with God‘s entire wrath, a wrath they also call the great tribulation.
Let‘s examine these two words closely. First of all, the word wrath (according to Webster) means 1: strong vengeful anger or indignation 2: retributory punishment for an offense or a crime: divine chastisement. Secondly, the word tribulation (according to Webster) means: distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution; also: a trying experience.
If we are to understand clearly the words used in the Bible, when God begins to punish the unjust, the Bible does not use the word tribulation to describe His indignation, it uses the word wrath. Rightly written, when God pours out His wrath on the unjust, He will not be oppressing or persecuting, or even trying (testing) the unrepentant. No! He will be punishing them with a strong and


vengeful anger. When the man of lawlessness is trying to beat down the ecclesia, he is obviously bent on oppressing and persecuting the called out ones, who will be totally distressed and in a great state of suffering. In other words, God pours out vengeful wrath on the unjust for their disobedience, but the son of perdition oppresses and persecutes the called out ones solely because they are God‘s ecclesia! Therefore, to interchangeably use both words wrath and tribulation (as if they meant the same thing) when speaking about the so-called Great Tribulation, is definite proof that theorists carelessly and erroneously use the words of God to conveniently promote their mythologies. Not only do they promote their secret tribulation escape to heaven mythologies from a foolish exegetical perspective, but also deviate from a sound grammatical perspective.
In verse 9 of 1 Thessalonians 5, it specifically states: For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. If we are to believe that God‘s wrath (the various plagues, vials, bowls and trumpets mentioned throughout the Book of Revelation) should be interpreted to mean the same thing as the tribulations that the ecclesia is destined to experience, then we Christians (especially theorists) have failed to interpret God‘s wrath (and words) correctly. Verse 9 specifically states that we are not destined for wrath; however, throughout the Bible, a myriad of scriptures state that Christians will experience great tribulation. The various plagues, vials, bowls and trumpet judgments are not (nor ever were) intended for God‘s called out ones, but rather, for the unbeliever.
Theorists keep pounding and pounding their bully pulpit beliefs that there will be a seven year period of wrath called The Great Tribulation, and they envision all of the plagues, vials, bowl judgments they see throughout the entire book of Revelation as being prevalent throughout that so-called Great Tribulation period. They base this seven year period on their interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27, which ostensibly predicts that the Beast will strike a covenant for seven years with the geopolitical leadership of national Israel (whom they identify solely as the Jews from the Jewish State of Israel). Then (after three and a half years of peace and safety) the Beast (or antichrist) breaks the covenant and begins to wreak havoc solely on Jews for three and a half years before Jesus returns at The Second Advent. They believe that since this seven year period is designed solely to punish the Jews for turning their back on God, then there is no way the Christian Church can be seen on earth during those seven years; therefore, it will have been caught up to heaven, participating in a great wedding, while all hell breaks loose here on earth. Sadly, theorists deny God‘s glory by not believing He has the power to protect His preaching ecclesia even if there was a full seven-year period of wrath, (See 2 Peter 2:9 ).
Nonetheless, there is no scriptural evidence whatsoever that the ecclesia, God‘s called out ones, will be removed from earth immediately before the man of lawlessness commences to war against the called out ones of God. On the contrary, as the author believes he has presented sufficient scripture to negate this premise, God‘s ecclesia will remain on earth, gloriously preaching the gospel


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation


of Jesus Christ, while experiencing the intensified persecutions by the man of lawlessness and his anti-Christian forces, until The Second Advent!
If the scriptures clearly state the called out ones will remain on earth during this horrific period, theorists somehow can‘t get their stories straight concerning this matter, because they keep pounding their pulpits incessantly that the ecclesia is already in heaven before the so-called Great Tribulation. Yet, in Revelation 7:14 they see (and identify) a group of saints arrayed in white robes who supposedly came out of that so-called Great (seven year) Tribulation period. On one hand they claim these saints in 7:14 were raptured to heaven (that‘s how they came out of great tribulation) and on the other hand they confuse their adherents when they continue their mythologies by stating these tribulation saints spoken of in Revelation 7:14 are those Jews (or other gentiles who didn‘t make it in the Rapture), but rather were converted to Christ during the so-called Great (seven year) Tribulation. Theorists can‘t have it both ways. Either the saints (and all called out ones are saints) in Revelation 7:14 are on earth during their so-called Great Tribulation period, or they are in heaven. Actually, they are wrong on both counts. The mention of saints in 7:14 is not picturing a scene in heaven solely because these saints are before the throne of God. Most certainly they serve Him day and night in his temple; but this service is an earthly scene because they are serving Him who is dwelling among them on earth. What we see in Revelation 7:14 is identical to what we see in Matthew 25:31-34, which is clear proof that it‘s an earthly scene:
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left, (Matthew 25:31-34, KJV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
This is an earthly scene, not a heavenly one. Theorists insist this is a heavenly scene primarily because it is quoted in the Book of Revelation. As we demonstrated in Chapter 13 (A Thousand Years) in our first book, regarding Revelation 20:4, we explained who John truly saw seated on the throne. It was not the souls of those who were beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus, and because of the word of God, and did not worship the beast. What we saw was Christ sitting on His throne, experiencing the moment when all (sole) judgment was given to him!
Revelation 20:4 speaks solely about the vindication of these souls who have been martyred throughout history, not their resurrection. Those we see in Revelation 7:14 are the totality of all the risen saints, after The Resurrection, standing before the throne of God. This is an earthly scene. Revelation 7:14 is speaking about the entirety of called out ones who throughout history also experienced great


tribulation at the hands of antichristian forces. This is proven by the fact mentioned in a preceding verse in this Chapter, verse 9:
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands, (Revelation 7:9, KJV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
Who comprises this great multitude, which no man could number of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues? Who stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands, that are mentioned in Revelation 7:9? Are they only those who repented due to God‘s wrath during the so-called Great Tribulation, as many theorists purport? It surely is not talking about the 144,000, which are identified in verses 3 to 8 as coming from the twelve tribes of Israel. This great multitude in verse 9 is identified as coming from every nation, tribe, people and language, and it is a throng so large no man could number. Verse 14 answers the question:
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, (Revelation 7:14, KJV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
Revelation 7:14, does not state that those who washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb came out of The Great Tribulation, but out of great tribulation. There is no article before great tribulation in this verse. The saints in 7:14 are not a select portion of God‘s ecclesia in heaven that supposedly were Raptured seven years before the Lord returns to earth. Nor are they a select group of the ecclesia that came out of great tribulation (implying Rapture or departure to heaven after death) before or during the so-called Great Tribulation. Revelation 7:14 is painting a picture of all of the righteous saints that have died (or were martyred for Christ) throughout history. It also includes those who will be alive and awaiting the Parousia of Christ, who will be changed (along with those who sleep in Christ) and caught together to have a meeting in the air with the Lord, to escort Him back to earth, and will be standing before His glorious throne on earth! Those in white garments (in Revelation 7:14) are all of those who throughout history have suffered and endured great persecutions for their belief in a coming savior. Regardless of the persecutions or tribulations these called out ones experienced throughout history, they placed their faith and trust in their Messiah! This particular vision John the revelator saw is a picturing all of God‘s children, who throughout history died and or suffered for (and in) their faith of their savior. This speaks of the redeemed throughout history who are now standing before the throne of their Messiah, Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God!


Verse 17 (of Revelation 7) clearly states that these (in white robes) will be led to springs of living waters, the very same ―living waters‖ we see in Revelation 21:6 (the spring of the water of life) and in Ezekiel 47:1-9, which provides the fruit (which) will serve for food and their leaves for healing. This is the same ―fruit‖ spoken of in Revelation 22:2, of which ―the water of life‖ in verse 1 provides irrigation to the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month, and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. This is talking about the Holy City of God and the Tree of Life described in Revelation 22:19, that warns that anyone who adds anything to this book will lose their share: And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book, (Vs. 19). This is the same Holy City of God we see that comes down to earth at The Second Advent, as spoken in Revelation 22:1-3. This is a scene on earth, not one in heaven!
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ―Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.‖ They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God, (Revelation 21:1-3, NIV).
As we presented in Chapter 15 (Jesus Christ Is God) of the first The End Times Passover book, the same picture painted in Ezekiel, Chapters 40 through 48, is not one of a restored Jewish geopolitical nation called Israel in the Palestinian region in the Middle East, as theorists postulate. This is the prophetic picture of the true Promised Land, the New Holy City of Jerusalem! The new home of all the called out ones, spending an eternity with God! The following two chapters in Ezekiel describe the apportionment of territories to Holy Israel in the true Promised Land, New Jerusalem, the soon-to-come earth-based dwelling of God:
This is the land you are to allot as an inheritance to the tribes of Israel, and these will be their portions," declares the Sovereign LORD. 30 "These will be the exits of the City: Beginning on the north side, which is 4,500 cubits long, 31 the gates of the city will be named after the tribes of Israel. The three gates on the north side will be the gate of Reuben, the gate of Judah and the gate of Levi. 32 "On the east side, which is 4,500 cubits long, will be three gates: the gate of Joseph, the gate of Benjamin and the gate of Dan. 33 "On the south side, which measures 4,500 cubits, will be three gates: the gate of Simeon, the gate of Issachar and the gate of Zebulun. 34 "On the west side, which is 4,500 cubits long, will be three gates: the gate of Gad, the gate of Asher and the gate of Naphtali.35 "The distance all around will be 18,000 cubits. ―And the name of the city from that time on will be: THE LORD IS THERE,‖ (Ezekiel


48:29-35, NIV). [Bold, caps and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
Once again, if read in context of what the Old Testament prophecies portray, what we are seeing in Ezekiel 37 through 48 is a picture of The Resurrection and the beginning of the eternal reign of Jesus Christ on earth. This is not a picture of a country restored solely for Jews by Jesus (before His return) in the Middle East community of Palestine, today being called the Jewish State of Israel. God did not set His sanctuary in the State of Israel in 1948! God does not have His tabernacle there! These chapters in Ezekiel describe in detail exactly what is seen fulfilled in the last two chapters of Revelation. Therefore, what we are seeing in Chapter 7 of Revelation is not a gathering of a select group of (Great Tribulation) martyrs before the throne of God in heaven, but rather, it‘s a gathering of all of the called out ones (who washed their garments and made them white in the blood of the Lamb) before the throne of God in the New Jerusalem, the Holy City of God, right here on earth:
Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them, they will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away, (Revelation 21:3, 4 NIV). [Underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
Nowhere in Chapter 7 is it mentioned that this scene occurs in heaven. What we are seeing here is but one of the visions that John saw, but nowhere does John imply that this scenario should be viewed in heaven. Even if we were to place this vision in a chronological order (which we don‘t believe is the case), the preceding vision that John had seen involved the sealing of the 144,000, which is an obvious earthly scene: Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the servants of our God, (Revelation 7:3, NIV). These white-robed called out ones are not the Raptured Christian Church or tribulation saints in heaven, but rather, they are all of God‘s children from history (who by faith trusted in the returning Messiah) and who are standing before His glorious throne, on earth!
In this group is included a myriad of called out ones who were martyred throughout history and those who are immediately martyred preceding the Lord‘s return. The martyrs did not die due to God‘s wrath, but rather, they ―overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death, (Revelation 12:11, NIV). These also are not Jews who were converted to Jesus by virtue of God inflicting a vengeful wrath; these represent a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, (Revelation 7:9, NIV). This numberless throng includes all of those who died believing in the Messiah before He arrived (the first time) in the person of Jesus Christ, all of those who died after Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven, and it will include all of the called out ones who will be martyred during the reign of the man of lawlessness. When


Revelation 7:14 says that ―These are they who have come out of great tribulation; and there is no article before great tribulation. It is not speaking about a specific group of people (supposedly only Jews or tribulation saints) who were so severely tormented by God‘s wrath (until they repented) during a seven-year period of tribulation, as theorists claim. But, rather, they are those who throughout all of history (including those who did experience martyrdom for believing in the Messiah) washed their robes white by believing in the Lamb of God; those who paid for their sins by the shedding of His blood, and by the word of their testimony.
Also (and extremely important), are we to believe that there is a difference between those who were martyred for Christ throughout history and those who will be martyred during the so-called times of great tribulation that will ensue immediately before He returns? Are we to believe that those who have been martyred throughout history, such as the prophets and patriarchs, and Paul, Stephen, Peter, et al, did not wash their robes white in the blood of the lamb? Only those martyred during the so-called seven-year Great Tribulation period receive white garments?
Theorists make claim this throne scene in Revelation 7:14 surely could not include those martyred throughout history before Jesus paid the price for sin at Calvary, claiming redemption was not fulfilled before this time. Who is Jesus Christ, if not the Messiah foretold by all the prophets from Abraham up to John the Baptist? The entire Old Testament is filled with prophecies of the coming Messiah. All faith believers, from Job, Abraham to Moses to David and all the prophets knew and foretold about the coming Messiah, resurrection glory and the true Promised Land, which is the Holy City of God! The entire Chapter of Hebrews 11, especially, speaks about the faithful who were seeking a better country, a heavenly city that was to come, which would be fulfilled through Messiah. Certainly, most of national Israel failed to recognize what the prophets of old were prophesying about. Most did not recognize their anticipated Messiah in their midst in the person of Jesus Christ. He is the same Messiah that the great faith-believing cloud of witnesses (in Hebrews 11) was placing their faith in.
Once again, there is no article seen before the words great tribulation in either Revelation 7:14 and Matthew 24:21. Therefore, theorist cannot postulate that this is speaking about a specific (seven year) period of time, immediately before the Lord‘s return. Revelation 7:4 speaks about all of those who washed their robes white in the blood of the Lamb, throughout history! Before the Lord returns, tribulation will increase like never before, especially based on the fact that Satan will be loosed for a short season. Knowing that his time is short, he will give his power to the man of lawlessness to persecute and kill as many of God‘s called out ones as he can, in one last desperate attempt to thwart God‘s plan of rescuing those whose faith and trust lay in their Messiah!
Does this not tell us that many called out ones have been placing their lives on the line throughout history for the Messiah, and that many more will indeed be


martyred for believing in the Christ, as times of tribulation will continue to intensify immediately before The Second Advent? Does this not also tell us that many Christians, who find themselves fearful and squeamish about the possibility that they also may be martyred for Christ, have reasons to question the degree of their commitment to Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God? Have we truly committed ourselves to the reality that (in the very near future) we may be faced with the possibility and the occasion of having to choose between life and death, for Christ? Unfortunately, a great throng of Christians are basing their ‗blessed hope‘ solely on a soothing secret pre-tribulation escape to heaven doctrine that speaks only about being rescued from intensified persecutions at the hands of the great man of lawlessness before Christ returns. If, by even the remotest chance, the secret pre-tribulation Rapture theory is not a scriptural fact, what will these worrisome Christians do? Are they spiritually, emotionally and physically prepared to stand up and be counted? Or will they, like the apostle Peter did, deny Christ once, twice, maybe even three times? Will they crumble under the pressure of having to make such a major decision in an effort to avoid such great tribulation? Are you prepared to surrender all, even your life, for Christ?
What Church Escapes Tribulation?
The author would like state, at this point, that it appears that the seven churches mentioned in the Book of Revelation are symbolic composites of the differing personalities, doctrinal precepts and ecumenical diversities that have been evident in and continue to portray the Christian community throughout history. There probably exists a greater and deeper meaning in the letters of exhortation to these respective churches. Nevertheless, the messages contained therein surely can be applied to any existing congregation that professes an allegiance to God. But, suffice it to say, the author will merely share the initial messages he gleaned from reading them.
Since we don‘t see at this juncture of Revelation the churches being removed yet, the only logical conclusion we can make is that the following exhortations are intended for members of God‘s ecclesia, the called out ones of Jesus Christ, regardless of their respective denominations. If each of these seven churches represents a specific congregation of the past, now existing or that will be present during the period of great distress, the Christian community then is presently at a loss for discerning which specific denominations are to receive the messages that are contained in the first three chapters. The author will make no attempts to identify which named church can be compared to any existing denomination. Many churches today make claim that theirs is the Church of Philadelphia (the one that escapes ―the hour of trial‖); however, it is yet to be proven that any such denomination is walking in the total holiness, purity and courage that God requires of it or as the apostles strived for. Nevertheless, the author believes these profound messages of exhortation to these seven churches are applicable to any denomination that claims to be part of the body of Christ.


In the letter to the angel of the church in Ephesus, we see a group that has worked hard, persevered and tolerated not the wicked men who claimed to be apostles. They endured hardships for the name of Jesus and did not grow weary. However, they have forsaken their first love, which was that youthful newfound love for God that required no reward. Just being in love with Him was sufficient (See Jeremiah 2:2); and, with the increase of lawlessness, men‘s hearts grew cold, (See Matthew 24:12). The warning here is that failure to repent will result in the removal of their Lampstand. By the way, the word ―Lampstand‖ here means ―one of the seven Churches‖ (Revelation 1:20).
In the letter to the angel of the church in Smyrna, we see the Lord exhorting this group that there are some members who cling to legalistic customs (they say they are Jews and are not) which the Lord sees as originating from satanic influences. To the true believer (those who are being afflicted and are impoverished), Jesus reminds them that they are rich, in the sense that they belong to Him. But nevertheless, He continues to offer them assurance, although the devil will put some of them in prison to test them, suffer persecution and even death. But, Jesus reminds them that being faithful, even to the point of death, will result in those called out ones receiving the crown of life.
To the angel of the church of Pergamum, the Lord acknowledges that although the called out ones are in the world (which is ruled by Satan, the prince of the power of the air), they are holding true to the name of Jesus in the face of death. Yet the Lord also knows that some in this congregation still hold to certain forms of idolatry and customs that go contrary to the nature of Christ. His exhortation (to him who overcomes) is to continue to hold on and they will receive some of the hidden manna. W. E. Vine says, ―the hidden manna is promised as one of the rewards of the overcomer (Revelation 2:17); it is suggestive of the moral excellence of Christ in His life on earth, hid from the eyes of men, by whom He was ‗despised and rejected‘ the path of the overcomer is a reflex of His life.‖ However, ―the hidden manna‖ appears to signify more of an aid to the ecclesia during times of tribulation. George Eldon Ladd, in his, A Commentary of The Revelation of John, cites verses from Exodus 16:32-34 that paint a possible explanation of the preserving aspect of manna for Israel:
Hidden manna: Probably John‘s thought is drawn to the manna because of the allusion to Balaam in whose time Israel was being fed with manna. Hebrew tradition held that a pot of manna was preserved in the ark (Exod. 16:32-34; Heb. 9:4 ), and when the temple was destroyed, Jeremiah (11 Macc. 2:4ff.) or an angel (Apoc. Baruch 6:5-10 ) rescued the ark with the manna, and they were miraculously preserved until the messianic times, when the manna would become once again food for God‘s people. John uses the idea metaphorically to indicate admission of the messianic feast, which is elsewhere called the marriage supper of the Lamb (19:9 ). The manna is referred to as hidden, perhaps because it was hidden in a pot of gold and ‗laid up before God‖ (Exod. 16:23 ); or else because it

Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation


is thought of as hidden now in the presence of God but destined to be revealed in the messianic age. (George Eldon Ladd, A Commentary of The Revelation of John, Eerdmans, Pub. Co. Grand Rapids, MI 1972)
More importantly, the hidden manna is a perfect picture of how Jesus Christ will provide preservation during perilous times, Him being ―the bread of life.‖ In Revelation 23, the redeemed are seen eating from the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, but no mention of manna is made, much less ―hidden manna.‖ Therefore it could make sense to identify the ―hidden manna‖ mentioned to the church in Pergamum as the living Word of Christ, through and in the person of the Holy Spirit. While the unbelieving world is fraught with fear as to how it will survive, and making them prime candidates to receive the mark of the Beast, the called out ones will not need to acquiesce to the mark because the Lord will provide the ecclesia with both a spiritual and tangible sustenance through ―the hidden manna.‖
It could very well be that during this time of great crisis and persecution, the need for food will not be a factor for the called out ones, but merely the word of God will suffice. The author believes that one of God‘s words provide for us confirmation concerning this aspect. E. W. Bullinger presents a revelatory fact about this heavenly bread, in his book, Number In Scripture. In his studies, concerning the cardinal number 1, he states that words which are mentioned only once in the Bible convey a more profound meaning than those mentioned twice, three times, etc. One of those words mentioned only once in the Bible, he says, is the word daily (Gr. epiousios, coming upon us), which is found in the Lord‘s Prayer. He says when we pray ―gives us this day our daily bread,‖ the word daily is not conveying our request for God to provide us our daily nourishment of food (which comes from the earth), which He already provides on a daily basis; but, rather, it conveys the receiving of the word of God (from above) on a daily basis:
We must expect this peculiar word of the Lord Jesus to have such a fullness in it that no one English word is able to express it. It qualifies the word ―bread.‖ It is this bread, which is espiousios, i.e., coming upon us. It is not the bread which perisheth, but the heavenly bread which cometh down from heaven (John vi.32, 33), even Jesus the living Word of God. For ―man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.‖ In other words, it is not the bread which cometh up from the earth which we ask our Father in this prayer, but it is the bread which cometh down from heaven, even Christ, the living word, and the scriptures, the written Word. By these alone, we truly live.‖ (E. W. Bullinger, Number In Scripture, page 76). [Italics by Bullinger; bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]


Therefore, being in constant communion with (the word of) God, as walking in the spirit with the Lord at all times, appears will be the most important key to ensure that which will sustain the called out ones during the approaching times of great tribulation the ecclesia will face before The Second Advent. God provides great insights to His words, especially to the persons who diligently seek the deeper things of God.
Those who overcome (Gr. nikao, which means ―mightiest prevail‖ will also receive a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it. Ladd states that in the ancient world, white stones had a variety of uses, one signifying acquittal by jury (the black stone signifying condemnation) and the other usage was as a ticket of admission to a public festival, which here could be symbolizing admission to the messianic feast, which we believe the Bible clearly states will be held on earth.
To the angel of the church of Thyatira, the Lord acknowledges that this type of congregation is preserving in deeds, love, faith and service (that you are now doing more than you did at first); however, He says that a tolerance still exists for false religiosity and immoral customs. Those who still abide by these ways will suffer loss of children, but the Lord exhorts those who do not engage in these teachings, but remain in faith to Him, will not have to endure some of the impending trials. He exhorts the true believers to hold on to what they have (their faith solely in Jesus) until He comes. Those that abide in Him, and do His will until the end, will be given authority over the nations.
To the angel of the church in Sardis, the Lord is seen admonishing this congregation for its complacency. He rebukes them to ―wake up!‖ This church is symbolic of many in the Christian community who weekly clock in for an hour or two and are content with the minimal involvement they feel is required to maintain their church membership status. But the Lord here exhorts these so-called church members to strengthen what little remains of their faith in God, and do the works He has ordained. He says that if they don‘t wake up, His coming will catch them by surprise as the thief does to those who know not what time he comes. Yet, the Lord acknowledges that a few people have not soiled their garments, and these will walk with Him because they overcome the trials and tribulations during this awesome period. The Lord says he will never erase those names from the Book of Life because they have proven worthy during the time of trial.
To the angel in the church of Philadelphia, the Lord acknowledges this congregation as being faithful to the name of Jesus, even though their outward strength has dwindled from the persecutions. These are the called out ones who have endured patiently throughout their existence, keeping the command of the Lord. He tells them that they will not be victimized by the ―hour of trial‖ that is going to come on the whole world for testing. He exhorts them to continue to hold on to what they have (faith in the Lord Jesus Christ) so no one will take their due reward, the crown of life. To those that overcome, the Lord will write on


them the name of God and the name of His City, New Jerusalem, making them pillars in the Temple of God. Here we see the Lord ―sealing‖ the true believers and granting them residency in New Jerusalem, which is coming down from heaven, from where our God, Jesus Christ, will forever more dwell with mankind on earth (Hebrews 13:14).
It is interesting to note that in the Lord‘s message to the Church of Philadelphia, which is on earth, Jesus is promising this church that those who overcome He will write on them the name of God and the name of the city of His God, the New Jerusalem, which is coming down from heaven. Here, Jesus is telling these church (of Philadelphia) members that,
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name, (Revelation 3:12, KJV).
Are we to believe that Jesus is telling these overcomers that they have to wait 1000 years later before they are made a pillar in the Holy City of God, as theorists interpret Revelation 20:4 and Revelation 21:1-3? Moreover, if the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, is written on the overcomers (which are obviously members of the ecclesia), and if New Jerusalem is the bride (which theorists claim is the church) isn‘t it odd that the name of the Bride is written on members of the church?
To the angel in the church of Laodicea, we see the Lord admonishing this congregation for their lackadaisical attitude toward Jesus, claiming to be rich in material wealth and not having any need for the saving grace of Jesus. The Lord here is showing this congregation that, without Christ, God sees a person as being wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. The Lord sees that these who have confidence in material goods are neither hot nor cold in their relationship with Him; therefore, He will spew them out of His mouth. But yet, the Lord counsels them that if they will buy gold refined in the fire, white garments to cover their nakedness and salve to put on their eyes to see, they can become rich in Christ. The salve is obviously the oil representing the Holy Spirit, the white garments representing the salvation provided by Christ through His shed blood, and the refined gold a reminder that we need not fear the assaying trials called out ones will go through. This is a symbolic sign of the purification process that the ecclesia is going through, and will more so during the increasing times of tribulation. This is an evident eventuality, as we see in verse 19, where the Lord is telling the called out ones that His rebukes and disciplining action are a result of His love.
So far, we have avoided the subject of purification and purging because it will be covered in greater detail later on; however, we are spiritually quickened to


provide a brief clue to this aspect of God‘s overall redemption plan. In 1 Peter 4:1, we read:
Therefore, since Christ suffered in His body, arm yourselves also with this same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God, (1 Peter 4:1, NIV). [Bold and underline is by the author, solely for emphasis]
This verse becomes even more meaningful during the times of increasing tribulation, as we will see later on. At this juncture (in our search for scripture that addresses tribulation of the ecclesia), we will momentarily leave the Book of Revelation. However, in a future chapter, we will examine this book in greater detail to help identify scripture that definitely sees the church (or believers) experiencing great tribulation from the Satanically-empowered Beast before The Second Advent of Jesus Christ. We will concede to theorists that the word ―church‖ is not seen in the remaining chapters of Revelation; although, in Revelation 22:16, we see a parenthetical exhortation from Jesus once again stating that the entire book of Revelation is a testimony for the churches:
I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star, (Revelation 22:16, NIV).
This basically concludes our search through the New Testament for scripture that addresses trials and tribulations that clearly identify the ecclesia as recipient. As long and laboriously as it has been to read these chapters concerning the topic of ―tribulation,‖ we felt it was necessary to cite these tribulation-related passages (very few theorists expound on this subject) to remind the called out ones that although a secret pre-tribulation escape to heaven is a favored doctrine, should the remotest possibility that the secret Rapture-to-heaven of the ecclesia will not be in store for believers, the reader cannot complain that the word of God did not forewarn His called out ones that ―…. we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God, (Acts 14:22, KJV).‖



Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation




Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

Hi Michael,

Thank you I have been resurfacing this FREE book for almost TWO years now...:)

Glad you had time to view it!

The book before this one is

The End Times Passover

By Joe Ortiz you might enjoy that too!

Here is the link to this FREE online book too!

LINK to the End Times Passover:

God Bless


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Here is an excerpt from a well researched book regarding this subject. My question in purple is enclosed within. Please consider it very thought-fully. Gerlinda

In the Book of Jude, the main comments here are reserved for the unbelieving angelic beings that are presently bound for judgment on the Great Day, as examples of the fate due to those that believe not.

However, the Book of Jude does exhort the called out ones to believe that the Lord is coming, and to be wary of ―scoffers‘ who will try to divide them away from the truth.

This particular chapter of our book, once again, has been specifically devoted to reacquaint the reader with the many verses that deal with the subject of suffering, hardship, persecution and tribulations that Christians will experience for holding to the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Theorists and scoffers will respond by saying that these instances of affliction were solely accomplished in the persons of Paul and the other apostles in the early days of the Christian Movement. Some will say that these afflictions are not to be taken literally, that they merely represent the emotional and psychological trauma being experienced in this fast-paced society we live in.

Some would even say that the words spoken of by Christ when He said ―pick up your cross and follow me are merely symbolic of what society today calls ―everyday problems. However, we intentionally cited all the passages that deal with suffering, affliction, hardship, persecution and tribulation for two special reasons.

Number one, throughout all the books the author has read about the so-called Rapture, whether Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib or Post-Trib, very few have touched on the subject of the sufferings that Christians are destined for.

Here is the very strong point made by Joe Ortiz regarding the fact of, "Why are there so many instances given of what the believers will have to suffer IF they are taken out before the Suffering/Great Tribulation begin?

Obviously, if a secret escape to heaven is what theorists believe scripture teaches, then not a single Christian has to worry about facing great tribulation before the Lord returns. However, it almost seems as if they (theorists) feared to tread on these heretofore mentioned subjects in fear of or at the expense of losing an audience that wishes not to be presented a doctrine that calls for these impending horrors; or, that to take such an unpopular position would be cause for expulsion from their respective position in the church community (See John 12:42). Or is it possible that theorists find it more profitable (financially and status wise) to avoid the subject of great tribulation, altogether?

A reading of this book, posted right at the Top of the Forum, is not long but full of Biblical reasons why we must understand what is ahead and be prepared within ourselves to face what is, assuredly, ahead.


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Here is a quote from "Why Christians Will Suffer "Great Tribulation" by Joe Ortiz.

The main responsibility for Christians (new ones especially) is not to stand on the mountaintop and indiscriminately begin quoting scripture; but rather, to share a testimony of what God has individually performed in their lives.

That makes so much sense.

When Jesus gave His disciples the "Great Commission" in Acts 1:1-8, He didn't use the word preach, which is the word derived from the Greek word euangelizo, from where we get the word "evangelize". He said, You will be my witnesses" .

There are those that believe that the ecclesia will be Caught Out before Great Tribulation begins. They will tell you that those that will be left behind, known as the Tribulation Saints, will come to the saving knowledge (somehow) that they apparently missed prior to that "Catching Out of the Beleivers". Really now? How is it that they come to that saving knowledge? It is the same way that you and I came to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and surrendered our lives to Him.

Someone "witnessed' to us through their own testimony and told us that the only way to Salvation is through Jesus Christ. It is the task of sharing what God has performed in our lives as a testimony to His glorious works, power and saving grace.

Do you really believe that the Church will be taken away from their own great commission given to them while there are those left behind that still need Jesus Christ? Why would God take out the very Witnesses that are needed during the days of Great Tribulation? He gave them a commission that needs to be finished to the End of the Earth. This is not merely witnessing to the Ends of the Earth. It is the completed course, the race, to the Time of the End.

Yes, I know what is said...there will be the 144,000 Jewish Witnesses. There is something greatly wrong with that statement.

First of all, if a Jew is witnessing for the Lord Jesus Christ, he is one of the ecclesia. Secondly, remember the lesson of who is the ecclesia? It is Spiritual Israel, made up of those of the Northern Kingdom and Gentiles that joined them in witnessing to the gospel of Jesus Christ (Yes, there will be others of the Southern Tribes included here).

The Apostle Paul was chief among those that took this gospel to those of the Lost Sheep and the Gentiles. From him and others to the Lost House of Israel/Gentiles, the Gospel has spread.

America is a Covenant Nation just as the United Kingdom. Within those Covenant Nations are the enemies of our souls....the servants of Satan...those of the Synagogue of Satan, that we hear more and more of in these days...the Illuminati...named after that "Illuminated One, the Fallen Angel. .

Therefore, those named as the 144,000 of the 12 tribes will include those that joined with Israel in the service of the Lord God.

There are those that claim these are the Church, which is correct only if this church/ecclesia includes those of the natural branch Israel. However, these people usually omit any semblance of an Israeli person. They have "hogged" the whole honor unto themselves. That is just as much of a mistake as it is to place the ecclesia/assembly/congregation/church into a separate dispensation that will, by some honor bestowed upon them, take them out before the Lord reveals Himself to those Jews (Judah/Benjamin/Levite)

Now, here is something that Joe Ortiz shared in his book, page 128
The word witness in the Greek is martus or martur, where W.E. Vine states, "whence, Eng.,martyr, one who bears witness by his death, denotes one who can or does aver what has been seen or heard or knows; it is used (a) of God, Rom. 1:9, 2Corin. 1:23; Phil. 1:8, I Thess. 2:5, 10 (2nd part) (b) of Christ, Ev. 1:5, 3:14; (c) of those who witness for Christ by their death.....

I Thess. 4:16,17 states many Called Out Ones will still be alive when Jesus returns. The dead in Christ will be raised first and those who are alive and waiting for the Lord's return will be "caught" together with them to greet and have a meeting with the lord in the air as, He makes His descent to planet earth. Until that time, the Lord exhorts us to reach out to the entire world and lead the lost to His Kingdom.

This book by Joe Ortiz, "Why Christians Will Suffer 'Great Tribulation'" and "The End Times Passover" have given me more understanding of what is really the truth of the scriptures than all the years I've heard the pre-trib., mid-trib. Rapture Theories. Although they were comforting, they were not accurate.

Why not let the Word of God speak it's own truth instead of trying to make it fit some Rapture teaching that is not even consistent with the grand theme of God's Mercy upon both Israel and Gentiles who have sought Him and are saved unto Eternal Life. That does not mean you are saved from Martyrdom.

This is a sure thing; if you managed to live through some of Great Tribulation coming upon Planet Earth, you may either die of one of the many catastrophes coming, pestilences or martyrdom. Very, very few, out of the huge population of earth, will witness the Trumpet blast calling them up to meet the Dead in Christ and the Lord in the air. Many are called but few are Chosen.

Multitudes didn't shirk from their commission to profess Jesus Christ and gave their very lives. Shouldn't we, who have been called to be witnesses for the Lord, face whatever it is that we have been called to do, in the same manner instead of looking for some "Escape" that isn't even consistent with God's Word.

Yes, it will be the most horrendous time upon this earth ever but He will give us His Grace to bear our own cross just as Christ Jesus bore His.

Thank you Steven for recommending these two books to me. I am so thankful to have had my understanding made much more clear. No, it is not a pleasant thought but it is a truthful understanding.....According to His Will.


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

We are a people who love myths, traditions, Easter eggs and Santa Claus. This is not great preparation for understanding and preparing for of great "Tribulation" or an "End-times Passover." People need to read Joe Ortiz' books- NOW!

Matthew 24:19-25

Jesus is telling His disciples that one of the biggest horrors of that period will be great signs and miracles by false prophets and many False Christ who will attempt to deceive the chosen ones of God. Many of these signs and miracles will be especially designed to fool even Christians into believing that Jesus has returned; however, the spirit-filled believers will be able to see through the ruse, barely!

Notice the word "Barely"? There is a very good reason for that word to be used. The technology to fool people is so advanced that only someone who is ground in the TRUTHS of God's Word in a solid Biblical manner will be able to sort through the Smoke and Mirrors. For instance, take a look at this Illuminati Playing Card that is describing the what will transpire when "their Christ' shows up.

This role-playing game called the "Illuminati -- New World Order", or "INWO" is proof that the Illuminati plan to produce Antichrist and it was well known long before 1995, when the game was distributed. Too many details are presented by these cards too close to the actual event to be accidental. The game depicts the events of 9/11 quite accurately and it depicts the planned events of bio-terror that are filling our daily news.

While people like us who are aware of the events being orchestrated are called Conspiracy Nuts, it is the Illuminati themselves who have been conspiring to produce their New World Order. Would you believe they even have a card that depicts the Rapture?

Here is a quote from the Cutting Edge:

"Rapture" --
* Occultists are also looking forward to the Rapture, having been alerted by their Guiding Spirits that such an event would occur! Beginning in 1987, 'Guiding Spirits' of key New World Order leaders began to inform these human leaders to start preparing their adherents for a spectacular global event, that would occur just after The New Age Christ [Antichrist] will make his appearance. What was this spectacular event to be? As these 'Guiding Spirits' explained, when The Christ appears, there will be many people throughout the world that could never accept his views or his teachings. These people would prove to be a great obstacle in the way the New Age Christ wanted to move the peoples of the world.

Therefore, the 'Masters of the Logos' had decided, these 'Guiding Spirits' said, to suddenly snap these people into another dimension, soon after The Christ arose. These recalcitrant people would be retrained in spirit, so that, when they reenter the 'Reincarnation Cycle', they will be fully persuaded as to the merits of the New World Order. Of course, when these people get back to earth in reincarnated bodies, the New World Order will have been in full swing for several hundred years, and everyone will know then how wonderful the system of The Christ is!


What does Jesus say:

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."

Why would there be that kind of a warning given....unless there will be some deception being put upon the masses that will beckon them out into the deserts, which we know is the very area where the first UFO crash took place in 1948. It is also the location of one of the most secret places known... Area 21...that has many, many levels down under the ground where technology from the hand of Satan himself takes place.. Underground cities spread through-out this country as well as others. (secret chambers?)

Because the Christians have been indoctrinated with a pre-7- year tribulation doctrine, they fail to heed the teachings that clearly give the road signs of what must happen before being called up to meet the Lord.

First there must a great Falling Away and The Man of Sin revealed. Remember, These 'Guiding Spirits' said, to suddenly snap these people into another dimension, soon after their Christ arose.

II Thess. 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Plus, there must also be the darkening of the Sun and the moon turning blood red before that Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. Joel 2:31

These are the things that Jesus said would be experienced by His disciples then, and, Matthew 24, specifically talks about the things His disciples will experience in the future.

Then, the horror of all horrors, universal chaos, including the sun being darkened, the moon‘s. Who were His disciples? They were His ecclesia , who went out into all the world giving testimony and being a witness of Christ. These are the very ones that Jesus Christ confirmed the Covenant made to the Fathers at the beginning.

Why in God's Wonderful Name, would anyone be looking for a Covenant made with many by a False Messiah? Because they have not grasped the fact that the He in Daniel 9:27 is none other than Jesus Christ.

For anyone to say this is speaking to just the Jews, it would be wise for that person to back up and settle in his/her mind who Israel truly is (both Jew & Gentile Believers) because it is these that make up the complete ecclesia/church, the Elect.

Isn't the Church Christ's Elect? Isn't Israel who came to saving faith in Him through the witness of the Disciples, the Elect?

The Orthodox Jews are not part of this group at this time: their time comes when they call upon the name of the Lord just prior to His Return.

Yet despite all of Jesus Warnings, you just know, that if possible, the very Elect will be deceived. I know that most believers are certain that they would not fall for any traps laid for them. REALLY?

They've already fallen into the pagan observing days having been convinced they are, some-how, honoring the very Lord that gave His Life for us. Give serious thought to these pagan holidays and who it is that they honored. Have Nothing to do with them....Nothing.

Do you really believe the Apostles would compromise and accept these. No Way. They gave their very lives to continue to teach what they had been taught and that was to be a witness to all the world, giving testimony of what they had seen and what they had learned from the very Word of God.

There wasn't a Christmas, Easter or Halloween Tradition among them.

Acts. 20:29-30 "For I know this that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them

2 Timothy 4:2-5: "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry,"

The cross is not to be viewed solely as a symbol of weight, as if carrying a heavy domestic or financial burden; but it is meant to symbolize exactly what it is, an instrument of death, the same meaning it had for Jesus.

These are the things that Jesus said would be experienced by His disciples then, and, Matthew 24, specifically talks about the things His disciples will experience in the future. Then, the horror of all horrors, universal chaos, including the sun being darkened, the moon turning blood red.

"Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation" by Joe Ortiz featured on this Forum for over 2 years....worthy of reading, I guarantee you will never see things the same again.

LINKS for the Two Books:

The End Times Passover

Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

The Lord asked Peter, "Who do you say I am?" Luke 9:20. After Peter made the confession of who Christ is and that he loved Him, The Lord goes on to point out that "He" would build His ecclesia upon the Rock (Himself), not Peter nor upon any one location, which in this case, happened to be up at the very location, at the base of Mt. Hermon...Bainis Falls.

That is where the Fallen Angels had descended. It is there, where the huge cave entrance to the large Mount/Rock is located. It, has a "gateway" inside down into the pit of Hell. It was a Pagan/Roman place of worship to the god Pan..

How fitting that Jesus would take Peter to that very location where the Fallen Angels first appeared and which is where they had their conversations with Enoch, the Scribe. Enoch took their petition, begging for forgiveness to the Almighty Father, but were refused. The 200 leaders of these Fallen Angels are chained up to the coming Judgement Day.

So, this whole occasion was a testimony of who Jesus Christ is, The Great I Am, Himself, who had called out His ecclesia right from the get go when He called out Abraham from among the pagans in the Land of Ur. He has been there all the time, through each trial and era that the Calling Out have gone through. And now that God had become man and was soon to offer Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice to redeem them from the pollution at the hands of Satan and the Fallen Angels, He, rightly, took his disciples to the very spot that these Fallen Angels had descended upon... as a witness, not only to the apostles... but to the under-world that it didn't matter how they have set themselves up, He, the Son of God, had come to set men free......for" Many are called but few are Chosen".

The Word "Christian" was first used in Antioch where the pagans used the term for those that followed Christ. It was, in reality, a degradatory term which has stuck.

To imply that the Israel had to become Christian is such a play on word games in order to pull the wool over the eyes of those that call themselves Christian but do not read the scripture readings for themselves and put it together. . ( Aramic Bible in Plain English - Matthew 15:24) "But he answered and said to them, “I am not sent except to the sheep that have strayed from the house of Israel.” The other versions say the same thing.

It is pretty plain that Israel, the Northern Kingdom, which had dispersed into all the world is the Lost Sheep, to whom Christ sent the believing disciples gathered from the Land of Israel; "Go, preach to them and gather them into the fold." is a clear message. The story of the Good Shepherd is a prime example of Him going out to reach the one that is lost and carry him back into the Shepherd's fold. Any Gentile that got attached to Israel became a part of that fold, "Congregation" (ecclesia).

The Gentile Church does not save Israel.....it is through the Lost Sheep of Israel that the Gentile was allowed to become a part of God's Called Out Ones, the ecclesia and became saved. Why is that so hard to believe?

I'll tell you why...the present day church has been brain-washed into believing that "they" are the primary Chosen One when it is the other way around . The Modern Church does not want to believe this truth; they have been convinced and continue to be convinced that salvation only comes through the Gentile Church. To put it into it's proper context would take away their self-imposed importance.

It also destroys the reason for a pre-tribulation rapture for a Gentile Church so God can get on with the business of dealing with the Jews. Now really, God needs a Gentile Church, which isn't even the complete ecclesia, to do this?

Again, I ask the question. Was the Body of Christ the Called Out Ones that He called "The Lost Sheep of Israel" or did He say, "Go out and save the Gentiles? Did I miss something? Is there scripture that implies that the Body of Christ was the Gentiles???

I believe there are many scriptures in Romans and Hebrews that speaks of the Natural Branch and the Grafted In Branch. The Gentiles thought they were the true Branch and the natural Israel thought that the Gentiles were suppose to keep their ways of doing things. Paul instructed them that they were one in the Root, Jesus Christ. The trouble the Church has today is not being able to distinguish who is whom. They are one, the Body of Christ....not the Bride of Christ.

If it needs to come down to a spouse, then it is speaking of the unfaithful wife with whom God had made a marriage contract, whom the 12 Tribes of Israel, as a whole, were unfaithful to their husband and went whoring after other gods. But that is another subject, separate yet connected. Ten of those 12 Tribes are being found and brought into the Sheepfold....along with the Gentiles that attached themselves to the Tribes.

Replacement Theology is the term that is used for any group that tried to take the place of Israel. And the thing that is nuts about this is that most teachers/preachers that use that term don't even understand whom the Bible says is Israel.

The Gentile Church (whoever that is suppose to be) should not be teaching that they need to be removed before Jesus Christ will deal with the "JEWS" because it is not true.

Their problem is that they do not know the difference between Israel (those of the Northern Kingdom, who in large part, accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior) and the Jews, which to this day, still are the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and the Levites who did not accept Him as their Savior.

They remain divided on the issue of the Messiah. But God, in His Wisdom knew all of this and even let us know this fact when the scriptures tell us that Jesus said He would not return until they called out to Him.

Gentile Church....you do know that Judah (the Jews) are the separate stubborn part of God's Calling, that have still not had their blinders removed and practice their OT religion, don't you? If you do not, then read Romans, Hebrews and go back to Acts and get the complete story. You will find out there was a reason, why they were kept in the dark, you could say. They had their role to play out for the End Time Prophecies to be fulfilled.

The Tribe of Judah, the Southern Kingdom, hold the Royal Scepter, which is jealously wanted by the The Tribe of Dan

Is Judah(Jews) the proper name to call all of Israel? A hundred times NO.

I can attest to how hard this fact is to comprehend because I've been there, done it, believed it so hard as to put up my stubborn wall of defense "that all of Israel is Jewish". Wow! How wrong I was. Thankfully, God gave me enough of a mind-set not to cling to an old teaching just because it's been around for a few hundred years. I didn't learn this over-night...several people were involved in opening my eyes to this revelation. Praise God, for that understanding because now, the other pieces to this End Times Mystery makes perfect sense...it fits.

Only Judah is the tribe that can have that title of Jews applied to it. Abraham was a Hebrew. Isaac was a Hebrew and so was Jacob until his name was changed to Israel .

But only the oldest son Judah is rightfully known as a Jew . Because the world has muddled these terms together, we have a church that does not even know the difference and in it's ignorance accuses others who do know the difference of two issues.

1. They call those that do not agree with them, that all those living in the land, who are not Arabs, must be the Jews.
2. Because you dare to correct them or use the correct terminology, you get branded as being Anti-Semitic.

The day will come when God will reveal to the ecclesia who are of the Tribes of Israel and who are the Gentiles that were grafted in. It will be a surprise to most, I believe.

Because Judah and Benjamin were united in the Southern Kingdom, in the land allotted to them, that is where they remain today, in unbelief of their Messiah The Temple Mount is located in the Benjamin allotment of land.

The Tribe of Benjamin are also known as the fierce left-handed fighters. They held special distinction in the days of old and I am sure they will, repeat their history again in the near future. The name given to them by their father Jacob is "A Ravenous Wolf". " Benjamin shall ravin like a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night, he shall divide the spoil." Gen. 49:27.

You see, it is the Tribe of Dan that will produce the A/C and try to convince those that are looking for another temple, that he is their Messiah. But he must have the blood-line of the Tribe of Judah. When he presents himself within a human body, having the blood of the Tribe of Judah, they will be convinced for a little while but then, the blinders will be lifted and that light-bulb moment will happen for them.

The blood of every person coming to Israel to live is tested; that is for a reason. Apparently, there is much to be said about the blood-line that proves who is qualified and who is not. The Shroud of Turin has been used in this DNA manipulation that will pull the wool over the eyes of the Tribe of Judah, Benjamin & the Levite priesthood who are preparing for future Temple Worship once the temple is built.

The moral of this whole story is: Do not pit=guess God and His plan upon the understanding of a Gentile Church that is willingly to skip town, you could say, because they've been deceived into believing IT is something special. Or, that God would not put this Gentile Church through Great Tribulation.

The Church/ecclesia is not Gentile and is not more special than the Israelites, who were the first Gospel Messengers.

I know, yes, I know, they have been told that the Jews would not accept the message so now they are separate. That is true if they are talking about the True Jews .

But, they are wrong if they are talking about the Israelites . The ecclesia is made up of both Israel and Gentile and will be here through Great Tribulation.

If you don't believe me, turn to Revelation 12:13-17 NKJ

"Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Who is the woman that gave birth to the Male Child : It is not the same one that are called, "The rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The Tribe of Judah gave birth to the DNA lineage of which came Noah, Boaz, King David, Nathan & the Mother of Jesus. This lineage did not include Solomon.

There seems to be two groups of people here, doesn't there? Yet, this seems to be over-looked as referring to just the Jews when it is talking about the ecclesia (both Israel and Gentile) that keep the commandemnts of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There-fore, common sense thrown in with all the scriptures in Hebrews, Romans and Acts, should convince anyone, really wanting to know the truth, that the Ecclesia is here doing what it is suppose to do until their time to share their testimony of Jesus Christ is over.

Then they will be called up to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the Air. Some will be Martyred. Some will die in other ways. Some will be protected for whatever purpose God has for them. But, for sure, they won't be Raptured until the Dead in Christ rise first and then the living will be changed and join the Lord in the Air.

Nothing else even makes sense and God is not a God of Confusion.


PS To further understand who the twelve tribes of Israel are and to fully understand Replacement Theology that continues to be misunderstood by the
Clergy and the Laity in these Last Days, please read the book by Joe Ortiz called "End Times Passover".

link: End Times Passover


Re: Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

How long is an Hour? I'm not speaking of the hour on the clock, which is 60 minutes.

I'm thinking of this portion in Joe Ortiz book, "Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation"

To the angel in the church of Philadelphia, the Lord acknowledges this congregation as being faithful to the name of Jesus, even though their outward strength has dwindled from the persecutions. These are the called out ones who have endured patiently throughout their existence, keeping the command of the Lord. He tells them that they will not be victimized by the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world for testing. He exhorts them to continue to hold on to what they have (faith in the Lord Jesus Christ) so no one will take their due reward, the crown of life. To those that overcome, the Lord will write on


In that above paragraph, it is clear that these living Saints will not be victimized during that hour of testing coming upon the whole world.

Then in this next scripture, below, we read of the ones that seem to be the ones that will be doing the victimizing/persecution of the Living Saints for the hour that they are given to rein as kings with the Beast.

Revelation 17:12 (KJV) " And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. "

And then there is this reference of how in one hour great wealth has been brought to ruin . Apparently, it is these ten kings under the Beast who have, through their terror upon earth's inhabitants, is now reaping the results of their evil reign.

Revelation 17:18 "In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!' "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off."

How ever long that hour is that is coming upon the earth, it is clear that the Beast and his ten kings are involved. But even more apparent is that the Church of Philadelphia, whom the Lord had set an "Open Door" which no one is able to shut, is still on earth.

Now, what do those that believe the true Saints (their Gentile Church) will be taken out before there even is a 7 years of Tribulation, have to say about that? I don't think there can be any argument that these Saints mentioned are the most qualified, is there?

1. They are given the highest praise of the 7 churches.

2. No one, even the powers of Hell, will be able to close the door of their Salvation, so there is nothing to keep them from being raptured before the hour of Temptation comes upon the world. Yet, there is no rapture or taking out mentioned.

3. They are even promised that these of the Synagogue of Satan, which we now, openly refer to as, the Illuminati, will come to bow before before their feet.

Revelation 1: 7-9 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens: "I know your works. Look, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying--I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."

Joe tells in his book:

Therefore, the called out ones need be ready and willing to lay aside everything (material possessions, jobs, friends, and even family) and pick up their crosses and follow Him. Paul tells us what it‘s going to be like in those days, which will include a spiritual malaise which (to a great degree) already exists at this precise moment: But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. Notice the last bit of advice??? Have nothing to do with them. But here is what we are to do:

"Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry, (2 Timothy 4:2-5, NIV)

Are you at peace with yourself, knowing that you have done all that you can do to bring others to the Saving Grace of Christ?

Are you carrying the Cross that has been given to you by the Lord? This is not the cross of making your own life better. In fact, it is a cross that, usually does the opposite.

As Joe points out:

As he begins to close his second letter to Timothy, Paul knows that his death is soon at hand; although weary, tired, exhausted, in much pain from years of beatings, floggings, and many other sorrows. Knowing and expecting to be executed soon by his persecutors, he is at peace, knowing the mission Christ gave him of evangelizing the gospel has been completed. He knows his reward will be given to him on that glorious day (not any sooner than) when Christ appears; but, yet he continues to exhort his fellow servants in the Lord about the rewards they will also receive, on that great day, as He promised:

For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day – and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing, (2 Timothy 4:6-8, NIV).

The Greek word for poured is spendo, which literally means and is used of one whose blood is poured out in a violent death for the cause of God.

This may be a shock to many but to a few, who have been paying attention to what is the drive behind these End Day events, it is no surprise at all. More surprising is the fact that most Americans just do not give a rip about the Satanic Drive behind those that are swearing to come to your borders to behead you.

Today, there was an article posted on this forum that should be very disturbing to anyone that is the least bit aware, that Rome has, not only invented this group of terrorist, but is determined to use them against Christians and Jews.

Concrete Evidence ! Vatican Wrote Koran !


There will be martyrs among the living Saints who await the Coming of the Lord. There will be those who are set aside, with special protection and power, to do the will of God in His Divine Purpose. There will be others who will probably die from the pestilence coming upon earth and through the catastrophes already greatly increasing upon earth. Only God knows our destiny; He knows what you will do with this information.

Whatever it is that God has for you; the sooner you know that you will not be caught out in a pre-tribulation Rapture, the sooner you will settle that matter it in your heart and mind therefore better able to set yourself about the business of building the Armour of God to withstand the wiles of the Devil. Your only food may well be the Word of God hidden within you.


Joe Ortiz book
Link: End Times Passover