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Link of article or video : ttp://www.textexcavation.com/irenaeusah.html



Hello all,

I know that this is not a popular subject, and so very few want to study about this issue, or to even read the studies of other people. I have posted my studies about this, and yet I still feel the need to keep doing so, as it is such an important issue, one that leads to a better understanding of the Word of God, and His plan that is unfolding in these last days.

Having studied this extensively through the modern Bible scholars, at least ones that have written over the past 100 years, I decided to see what the early Church fathers may have to say about who Israel truly is. I like to stay as close as possible to the roots of the early church, and although I have written about what the disciples themselves said about this and provided the verses that plainly state the facts, I wanted to see if these facts were carried on into the 2nd century Church as well.

I found a most interesting collection of books called “Against Hereies” written by a famous second century Bible scholar. Below is what I found.

This man, Irenaeus, who wrote the 5 books “Against Heresies”, lived from 130-200AD.

He was a disciple of Polycarp, who himself was a disciple of John the Evangelist.

Irenaeus was not looking for a Jewish kingdom. He interpreted Israel as the Christian church, the spiritual seed of Abraham.

Here is what he has to say: (I capitalized some of his words)

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BOOK 5
Chapter 32:2

2. Thus, then, the promise of God, which He gave to Abraham, remains stedfast. For thus He said: "Lift up thine eyes, and look from this place where now thou art, towards the north and south, and east and west. For all the earth which thou seest, I will give to thee and to thy seed, even for ever."

And again He says, "Arise, and go through the length and breadth of the land, since I will give it unto thee;" and [yet] he did not receive an inheritance in it, not even a footstep, but was always a stranger and a pilgrim therein.

And upon the death of Sarah his wife, when the Hittites were willing to bestow upon him a place where he might bury her, he declined it as a gift, but bought the burying-place (giving for it four hundred talents of silver) from Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite. Thus did he await patiently the promise of God, and was unwilling to appear to receive from men, what God had promised to give him, when He said again to him as follows: "I will give this land to thy seed, from the river of Egypt even unto the great river Euphrates."

If, then, God promised him the inheritance of the land, yet he did not receive it during all the time of his sojourn there, it must be, that together with his seed, that is, those who fear God and believe in Him, he shall receive it at the resurrection of the just. FOR HIS SEED IS THE CHURCH, which receives the adoption to God through the Lord, as John the Baptist said: "For God is able from the stones to raise up children to Abraham."

Thus also the apostle says in the Epistle to the Galatians: "But ye, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of the promise."

And again, in the same Epistle, he plainly declares that they who have believed in Christ do receive Christ, the promise to Abraham thus saying,"

The promises were spoken to Abraham, and to his seed. Now He does not say, And of seeds, as if [He spake] of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

And again, confirming his former words, he says, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore, that they which are of faith are the children of Abraham. But the Scripture, fore-seeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, declared to Abraham beforehand, That in thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which are of faith shall be blessed with faithful Abraham."

THUS, THEN, THEY WHO ARE OF FAITH SHALL BE BLESSED WITH FAITHFUL ABRAHAM, AND THESE ARE THE CHILREN OF ABRAHAM.

Now God made promise of the earth to Abraham and his seed; yet neither Abraham nor his seed, that is, those who are justified by faith, do now receive any inheritance in it; but they shall receive it at the resurrection of the just.

For God is true and faithful; and on this account He said, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

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I am presenting this in the spirit of showing how deceived the modern Church has been on this issue, as on so many others issues that are based on the infiltration of false doctrines. These false doctrines have been presented by men with an agenda, to keep the members of the end time churches in the dark as to the Truth of God’s Holy Word.

I have to say that I feel very alone in trying to present this, and there are many who have accused me of all manner of things. This has not deterred me, but has caused me to search all the more passionately for the truth.

Again, I encourage anyone to FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Actually the books written by Irenaeus are a treasure trove of information, and I highly recommend taking a look at them. In my next post, I will present his writings about the Antichrist, which are also very interesting.

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!

Patti C.

I just realized that the website I gave could not be accessed as I accidentally left off the "h" in the first place. Sorry about that!!

HERE IT CORRECTED


Link of article or video : http://www.textexcavation.com/irenaeusah.html

Much discussion about this.

The elect are ALL OF GOD'S PEOPLE!!! That is the defining issue...born again believers are ALL God's people!!! There is no distinction other than that!!! No Jew, Gentile, Greek, or man or woman or child for that matter.

The elect in the Old Testament were mostly Hebrews...but there are exceptions, such as Ruth who was a Gentile and became part of Israel by becoming a believer....all believers are now part of God's chosen people...Natural Israel must become born again believers to be considered the elect. Apostate Jews are certainly not the elect of God. If they become believers in Jesus Christ, then they become part of Spiritual Israel and are then part of the elect.

This should not be so complicated...even child could understand this. But man's intellect keeps getting in the way of his spirit, and being right becomes more important than being saved.

JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!!

Patti C.

per your article.....this paragraph.

And again He says, "Arise, and go through the length and breadth of the land, since I will give it unto thee;" and [yet] he did not receive an inheritance in it, not even a footstep, but was always a stranger and a pilgrim therein.
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Just one correction Patti, Abraham did claim his inheritance and lived at Baer Shiva, in the Negev Desert. Remaining there today is His Well. It was the home of Isaac and then Jacob. From that first home, the seed of Abraham has grown. There are his children of the Promise, the Israelites and there are the children of the various Arab tribes who were given land all around them. I have visited the site, have a picture of myself there and believe me Patti, it sits right in Baer Sheva in the Promised Land from where he took Isaac up to Mt. Moriah (Temple Mt.) to sacrifice. Here is a short video of the place. I notice lots of modern buildings now surrounding the area that were not there in 2002. gerlinda



I really dislike it when historical facts are ignored and then new facts are assumed. God said it, it happened. The Christians are grafted into the Root and have not replaced those Israelites that will come to faith after the believers have been taken. What is it with these people that want to replace a group that has their destiny yet to be fulfilled. Their blinders, put on in part, will be removed (future). Isn't the Church so greatly blessed to be able to see the Lord before these End Days Israelites?

Here is more information on Abraham's Well.
http://www.abrahampath.org/discover/places/negev/negev-sites/abrahams-well/

This is what the Lord is telling you will come to pass, as you are finding out:

Jer 7:25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:
26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
28 But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

Jer 15:17 I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation.

Remember: who was the enemy of Jeremiah? Was it the King of Babylon? Was it the King of Babylon that was fighting against Jeremiah? No, the enemies of Jeremiah were his own people. The King of Babylon in fact priased the elect of God on several occasions; it was the King of Babylon who rescued Jeremiah out of the hands of his enemies, his own fellow Israelites.

Jer 39:11 Now Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon gave charge concerning Jeremiah to Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, saying,
12 Take him, and look well to him, and do him no harm; but do unto him even as he shall say unto thee.

Now, you say later about how to many it is more about "being right" than "being saved" but though this is somewhat true, understand that this is all because of fear. I don't know your understanding, or where it is, but most people believe in a place of eternal nightmarish suffering they call "hell" and all the people who are wrong will go there. Now, think about this for a moment because there is so much going on under the surface of our words that most will not perceive it. When a person is told they are wrong, what do you think will happen in their mind foremost? Think about it, being wrong is virtually equal to saying "you are going to go into eternal nightmarish land"

so if a person thinks they may be wrong about one thing, what else could they be wrong about, they may think. And this- coupled with doctrines teaching wrong ends you up in a never-ending nightmare- this is what makes people not want to be wrong. They want to be right because they are fearful of the result of being wrong. You cannot take this "eternal nightmare" doctrine lightly because this is underlying the thoughts of most everyone; not just religious people, but even non-religious people. If they discover they are wrong about something- what else could they be wrong about? Maybe that eternal nightmare is coming for them? This is a horrifying thought, so my point here is to perhaps allow some insight into why people are as they are- why they seem not to listen, even when things are pretty clear.

Because, if I'm wrong about this... maybe I am wrong about other things- maybe the eternal nightmare is for me?! NO! I CANNOT BE WRONG! PLEASE LORD NO! NOT THE ETERNAL NIGHTMARE! But what I'm saying is, always remember people are just trying as they think to try, and there's a lot going on in the mind of the hearer than we might think. But if we are faithful to the Word, these things all work out in the end: this is all the work of the Lord God, and despite how mahy are misunderstanding this and understanding that, I assure everyone reading these words that you cannot even begin to comprehend the love the Lord has for us all, and how this will all turn out will be not what most are thinking.

Believe me that as much as no one wants to be wrong right now, in the end, everyone is going to be singing "THANK GOD I WAS WRONG! THANK THE LORD WE WERE ALL WRONG!" because the reality of the next age is going to be so unimaginabley joyous that everyone will be saying "So glad it turned out the way the Lord said it would, the way He was meaning, and not the way I thought He was meaning- which was just, so, so... so wrong

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