FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES



I don't like to "insult" intelligence! What I enjoy doing is "challenging" those who THINK they are intelligent because they follow "the traditions of men" instead of believing what the Bible actually says.

WE ARE WARNED AGAINST THIS:

Mark 7:8..."For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the TRADITION OF MEN, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do." (These are Jesus'own words...in red ink)

Colossians 2:8..."Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain DECEIT, after the TRADITIONS OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and NOT AFTER CHRIST."

Christians WRONGLY believe that the thousands of denominations in today's "Church World" are the way things should be. This is NOT "Christianity"....it is "Churchianity" and has NOTHING of Jesus Christ in it's system.

IF YOU ARE IN ANY DENOMINATION.....YOU ARE WRONG!! You are following those who SPLIT the "one body" (the Church) into thousands of pieces. And you PAY YOUR PASTOR to do this!! If he (or she) were ACTUALLY one who believed what the BIBLE says, they would NOT even be standing behind the "Pulpit".....because the "pulpit", itself is UNBIBLICAL in the New Testament "Church". The CHURCH is supposed to be an "Organism"....not an "Organization" of any kind.

This Scripture PROVES this to be true:

Ephesians 4:4-6
"There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling: (vs.5) ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism. (vs.6) ONE GOD and FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL."

THIS VERSE MADE ME STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT I, MYSELF, BELIEVED IN...was it even "Biblical"?? It is the DOCTRINE OF THE "TRINITY OF GOD"!!

What I believed about this was what I have heard from others for the past several decades. Yet, I vehemently question those who "talk to Jesus" (during a "face-to-face" encounter), or those who relate "private messages" of prophecy to certain individuals. We are NOT to interpret Scripture with any "private interpretation" (II Peter 1:20). BUT, we tend to be like "Gangbusters" in following individuals who claim that they "SAW JESUS"...and He, "Jesus" (supposedly) told them something in PRIVATE that nobody else knows!!!

Why would Jesus even be here?? We are told that the "Comforter" (the Holy Spirit of God) COULD NOT COME if Jesus were not gone FIRST....see John 16:7. So, how in the world can ANYONE claim that BOTH Jesus Christ AND God's Holy Spirit were here in the world AT THE SAME TIME?? Jesus told us that this could not happen!!

This made me study about the "TRINITY"....was God actually in "three persons" as I had been taught all my life? What else were Pastors passing on WRONGLY? And we BELIEVE because "it's always been believed"...and we NEVER check it out ourselves??

DO YOU BELIEVE IN "GOD, THE FATHER"; "GOD, THE SON"; AND "GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT"???? IF SO, YOU ARE WRONG....AND SO WAS I!!

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) (vs.6) But to us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, by whom are all things, as we by Him."

Don't we all know the "Doxology" by heart?? We sing it, and we believe it! BUT IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE!!


Origin of the "Doxology":

Words: Thom­as Ken, Man­u­al of Pray­ers for the Use of the Schol­ars of Win­ches­ter Col­lege, 1674. Ken wrote this hymn at a time when the es­tab­lished church be­lieved on­ly Script­ure should be sung as hymns—with an em­pha­sis on the Psalms. Some con­sid­ered it sin­ful and blas­phe­mous to write new lyr­ics for church mu­sic, akin to ad­ding to the Script­ures. In that at­mo­sphere, Ken wrote this and sev­er­al other hymns for the boys at Win­chest­er Col­lege, with strict in­struct­ions that they use them on­ly in their rooms, for pri­vate de­vo­tions. Iron­ic­al­ly, the last stan­za has come into wide­spread use as the Dox­ol­o­gy, per­haps the most fr­equent­ly used piece of mu­sic in pub­lic wor­ship. At Ken’s request, the hymn was sung at his fun­er­al, fit­tingly held at sun­rise.
Doxology written by Thomas Ken....1637-1711)

Words in the "Doxology":

Praise God, from whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Are these words "Biblical"?? The LAST LINE IS NOT!!

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY TO "PRAISE THE HOLY GHOST"???

See how we do certain things WITHOUT thinking about them? And then, we tend to argue with those who criticize us for doing it! I include myself in my own criticism. Not long ago, I would have fought to the death for the "doctrine of the trinity"....and now I fight for the truth against it.


One very good "Blog spot" on this subject...and responses to it, both negative and positive:


http://heavennet.net/testing-the-trinity/


Small piece from the link article:

Many denominations today still operate under this spirit of control including the persecution of those who question doctrines like the Trinity. Try questioning this doctrine in any denomination that is built on this creed, and watch the horror on people’s faces and the warnings that will proceed thereafter.

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[My own comment]

I also say that ALL of today's "denominations" spring from the Roman Catholic church, and it's way of conducting rituals and sermons. So, those who believe that the Roman Catholic system, and the Pope, are "Mystery, Babylon", are not far from the truth. It's ALL the "church systems" of the world....as a CORPORATE ENTITY. ALL our "roots" are from the "church system" instead of from our Lord Jesus Christ.

And, I want to add into consideration here the WRONG DOCTRINE of the "rapture" of the church which is believed by millions of Dispensationalists. They use, as a "proof text" that the word "rapture" is IMPLIED.....just as the word "trinity" is IMPLIED. Well, they may be both IMPLIED, but implication does not mean TRUTH, as it is written in the Bible. And NEITHER the word "rapture", nor the world "trinity" are SCRIPTURAL TERMS....nor are either one CORRECT Bible doctrine.

Again, I turn to L.Ray Smith and his superior ways of explaining how we come to believe FALSE DOCTRINE....especially the one of the TRINITY of God:


http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html


Piece of the link article:


When a man with a Doctor’s degree tries to tell me (well not specifically me, it’s just that I was unfortunate enough to bump into his web site) that the very "existence of God" is a "CONCEPT," maybe it is time to log out and disconnect. And to add insult to injury, this "very CONCEPT of the existence of God" is based on his "concept of the Trinity." Let me assure my readers and Dr. DeVries that: TWO "CONCEPTS" DO NOT MADE A "BIBLICAL TRUTH"!!

Two more:

"Since the word Trinity is used to represent God as a triune being, what is triune? Noah Webster defined the word triune to mean, ‘three in one.’ This means that God, a singular being, exists in a PLURAL manner... The Hebrew name for God used in all known manuscripts is ELOHIM... The word ELOHIM means three in one." (Capitals are author’s).

Did I miss something? Noah Webster defines the word "triune" to mean "three in one," and therefore we have PROOF THAT GOD IS A TRINITY? What kind of scholarship is that?

The Hebrew word Elohim [eloheem] is the plural form of Elowahh [eloah] which answers to "The Deity." The Greek word generally used in the New Testament for God which answers to the Hebrew word Elohim is Theos which means PLACER (God), literally Disposer or Arbiter.

If anyone wants to look up the word Elohim in the hundreds of dictionaries and lexicons, and find just one that defines Elohim as the above theologian does, as "three in one," I WILL GIVE THAT PERSON HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS!

That my friends is just the first few sentences of Dr. DeVries paper on the Trinity. And, "NO," I didn’t read his whole paper, just the first page.

I will, however, give you the first caption after his brilliant introduction: "The Trinity Illustrated in Nature"

If we can’t find the trinity in the Scriptures, perchance we can fine it in "nature."

Seriously, I hope my readers can see through such inane scholarship. Only religious people, theologians, and self-professed ministers of God can get away such total nonsense. No author could EVER get away with such childish and unscholarly presentations if he were writing on serious subjects such as medicine, aviation or physics. His contemporaries would laugh him to scorn. Well, now that I think about it, there might be two exceptions to that--those who write books on evolution, and those who write fiction. The above article on the Trinity is assuredly a religious work of fiction!

I could now go through all the Scriptures that support the doctrine of the trinity, however, there is a problem --THERE ARE NO SUCH SCRIPTURES!

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When anyone (including me) finally learns some TRUTH of Bible doctrine, then it is far easier to "weed out" those who are FALSE PROPHETS. If ANYONE tells you something that "Jesus" told them, personally.....you can safely assume they don't have a clue about God or about the Bible.

Never forget: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." II Cor.11:14


Arlene

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Col 4:6

6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
KJV



Link: http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm

I (Arlene ) could now go through all the Scriptures that support the doctrine of the trinity, however, there is a problem --THERE ARE NO SUCH SCRIPTURES!


Here are BIBLICAL VERSES TO SUPPORT A TRIUNE GOD,AND a GREAT commentary by Matthew Henry, funny these verses we not mentioned, and also have been removed from many newer versions of the bible.

1 JOHN 5:6-8

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
King James Bible 1 JOHN 5:6-8


5:6-8 We are inwardly and outwardly defiled; inwardly, by the power and pollution of sin in our nature. For our cleansing there is in and by Christ Jesus, the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Some think that the two sacraments are here meant: baptism with water, as the outward sign of regeneration, and purifying from the pollution of sin by the Holy Spirit; and the Lord's supper, as the outward sign of the shedding Christ's blood, and the receiving him by faith for pardon and justification. Both these ways of cleansing were represented in the old ceremonial sacrifices and cleansings. This water and blood include all that is necessary to our salvation. By the water, our souls are washed and purified for heaven and the habitation of saints in light.
By the blood, we are justified, reconciled, and presented righteous to God. By the blood, the curse of the law being satisfied, the purifying Spirit is obtained for the internal cleansing of our natures. The water, as well as the blood, came out of the side of the sacrificed Redeemer. He loved the church, and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word; that he might present it to himself a glorious church, Eph 5:25-27.
This was done in and by the Spirit of God, according to the Saviour's declaration. He is the Spirit of God, and cannot lie. Three had borne witness to these doctrines concerning the person and the salvation of Christ. The Father, repeatedly, by a voice from heaven declared that Jesus was his beloved Son. The Word declared that He and the Father were One, and that whoever had seen him had seen the Father. And the Holy Ghost, who descended from heaven and rested on Christ at his baptism; who had borne witness to Him by all the prophets; and gave testimony to his resurrection and mediatorial office, by the gift of miraculous powers to the apostles.


But whether this passage be cited or not, the doctrine of the Trinity in Unity stands equally firm and certain.


To the doctrine taught by the apostles, respecting the person and salvation of Christ, there were three testimonies.
1. The Holy Spirit. We come into the world with a corrupt, carnal disposition, which is enmity to God. This being done away by the regeneration and new-creating of souls by the Holy Spirit, is a testimony to the Saviour.
2. The water: this sets forth the Saviour's purity and purifying power.
The actual and active purity and holiness of his disciples are represented by baptism.
3. The blood which he shed: and this was our ransom, this testifies for Jesus Christ; it sealed up and finished the sacrifices of the Old Testament. The benefits procured by his blood, prove that he is the Saviour of the world. No wonder if he that rejects this evidence is judged a blasphemer of the Spirit of God. These three witnesses are for one and the same purpose; they agree in one and the same thing.

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Rev 22:18-21

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
KJV
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Agape
Bob

For Bob....

I think your problem is that you don't know how to READ!!

English comprehension must not have been one of your subjects in "grade school".

You gave all kinds of "facts" which were TOTALLY REFUTED in what I posted. And that shows EXACTLY that:

1. You DID NOT READ MY POSTING.

2. You chose to IGNORE what my posting said.

3. You DID NOT UNDERSTAND the English language of what I posted.

4. You just like to voice your OWN opinion, unsubstantiated, without considering plain LOGIC.

But then, it was probably "ALL OF THE ABOVE".....

Arlene

(I broke my silence to you because I abhor PURPOSEFUL IGNORANCE.)

Discussing Scripture maturely without attacking a person or name calling is edification......


Please stick to scripture and not name calling......


Thanks


God Bless

Steven

You are EXACTLY right, Steven!!

And you can REMIND those who refute postings, that they are supposed to READ THE THING POSTED BEFORE presenting an argument against what was said.

What I posted WAS NOT READ by Bob prior to the argument he posted. That is OBVIOUS due to the content of his argument.

If I can read properly, nobody called anyone else improper "names". Criticism is not "name-calling". Constructive criticism is ALWAYS a healthy thing to do. However, there should be a BASIS for the criticism in the FIRST PLACE.

I criticized Bob for NOT READING MY MATERIAL....and it's obvious that he HAD NOT READ WHAT I POSTED. If he had, his comments would not have been necessary. I thought YOUR RULE was that a posting SHOULD BE READ before commenting.

I waited for a day or two for YOU (Steven) to make the comment about READING BEFORE COMMENTING. But, you neglected to.....so I did!

Arlene

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Col 4:6

6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
KJV



Link: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/search.php?q=

Hi Arlene, I think you are way off base, I think you need to examine yourself to see if you are still in the faith, especially when I see comments such as these you posted….Is this love, should you answer a christian in this tone of voice. I didn’t jump down your throat because I didn’t agree with you post, I responded with love, not HATE.
This site is not a one way street, you will do well to remember that.
I still love you no matter what.
I will be praying for you.
Love covers a multitude of sins.

1 Timothy 1:4

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

1 JOHN 2:27

27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Romans 3:4 |
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

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Rev 22:18-21

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
KJV
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Agape
Bob

Bob....Answer ONE QUESTION truthfully!!

DID YOU READ MY POSTING BEFORE YOU MADE AN ARGUMENT AGAINST IT??

"Love" has nothing to do with any of this. I am not posting about "Love". I am posting about TRUTH.

I say you DID NOT READ my posting before commenting. And you are avoiding the MAIN issue by bringing up a question of my FAITH. What kind of argument is that?

Did you, or did you not READ my posting before commenting?? This requires a "yes" or "no" answer. And there is nothing unloving about that!

Arlene