Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 
THERE IS NO RAPTURE

WHY THE TITLE RAPTURE BIBLE PROPHECY FORUM?
WE STARTED OUT BELIEVING IN A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
BUT FOUND OVER TIME AROUND 2006 THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SHARE A 
BIBLE VERSE WHATSOEVER INDICATING A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)


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WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY WE ARE LEARNING DAILY AND 
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LET YHVH/YAHUSHA BE TRUE 
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Yahusha/JESUS IS GOD/YHVH
Yahusha/JESUS is YHVH/GOD/YHWH-Yahusha/Son:
​​​​​​​Yahusha/JESUS is The WORD

Yahusha is I Am That I Am  (Exodus 3:14)

Yahusha is YHWH  come in the flesh, He put aside His Diety to become a human, born of  a Virgin.

Yahusha is the Word, As The Most High, He spoke all things seen and unseen into existence

When YHWH created Light, He was revealed to the angels. 

John 14:26
"the breath of life"

But the Comforter, which is "the breath of life", whom the Father will send shall teach you all things.

God is not His  Name but a term.  The Holy Spirit is not a person but the very Breath of the Father.

There is no Trinity.  The Father, YHVH  and Yahusha are One  (John 10:30)

THE BOOK OF ENOCH

NOW IS THE TIME!

 FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!

REFERENCES IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH TO THE BIBLE

https://bookofenochreferences.wordpress.com/category/the-book-of-enoch-with-biblical-references-chapters-1-to-9/chapter-1/

Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

Yahusha/JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:

THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT

JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY

FREE DOWNLOADS

All Of The Apocryphal Books Of

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Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's  return!


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Re: For Doves and Watchmen on the Wall : Posted John Tng on Five Doves:The Day of the LORD is finall

Hello all!

There are many things that bother me about this letter written by John Tgn. I will try and address them all in this post, because I feel that someone in his position is doing a great disservice to so many Christian people, who look to him to lead them in rightly understanding the Holy Scriptures.

Before I get into the study itself, I would like to discuss the man, himself, and my experiences with him. This is not to judge him, or to put him down, but to show what kind of person is writing the study, and how that makes a difference in whether to put stock into what he wrote, or not. This is just my opinion, but there is much about his study alone, that I will also be looking into, and these problems would stand on their own if I never even knew this person. So, I am starting with the man, and will then address his study.

John is so caught up in proving a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, that he will not even entertain the studies done by others, that may disprove his theory, to see the light of day on his web-site. This tells me that he is very insecure in his beliefs, if he will not allow others to post biblically based and well researched studies, if they contradict what he believes. And, another thing, in this regard, his web-site does not stipulate that all the letters have to be about a Pre-Trib rapture, and if they have to be, then he should alert people to this fact. Also, he refuses letters without ever telling anyone why he refused them, I guess he did not want to admit the real reason.

This is not second hand knowledge on my part, I used to write, almost everyday, on his site, and he refused many of my studies because I might of been presenting another view than the one he holds. That has to be the reason, because he never wrote to me and told me why. But, it was not just me, I know of several really good writers that have been banned because they tried to present studies of there own, that may have been contradicting his opinions. I have talked with these people and that is the conclusion they came to, also.

Okay, enough about that. I just think it is important to understand that finding the Truth in studying the Holy Bible must be done without any preconceived notions, or at least not done in the spirit of finding only what fits these notions and disregarding the rest. I guess I was trying to show, that if a person does this in one aspect of their life, they are apt to do it in others. If the author is suspect, maybe their studies are also.

Now about his study:

First of all he starts out by saying that for years he has been looking for mega signs that will tell him when the Pre-Trib rapture of the Bride will happen. To me, and to what I know now, this is waiting for something that is not even in the Holy Bible, as Jesus is not coming three times, and there is only one rapture of all believers, not several for different groups. But, that is beside the point. He admits that he is constantly looking for signs, and has been for years. And now, he has found a Mega Sign. I think it is all good and well to keep watching for the signs of His Coming, but I think there are much more important things to be doing, like studying His Word, having a closer relationship with Him, developing a more Spiritual outlook on His spiritual message. Looking for signs outside of oneself and not what He reveals to one personally, is without merit on its own. Besides, what did Christ say about looking for signs.

Mat 16:4
"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed."

Looking for the signs of His Second Coming would be more appropriate, at least that is what is true and searchable in the Holy Scriptures. But searching for something that is not there, and using the Scriptures that are referring to His Second Coming is not in any way rightly dividing the Word of God. So, to me, his whole study is built on a false premise.

The next thing that really gets to me is how he, and Pre-trib believers, call this pre-trib rapture OUR BLESSED HOPE. This has always bothered me, as how can we even think such a thing? Is the Bible all about us, or all about JESUS? There is only one blessed hope for all mankind and that hope is Jesus, and His appearing!!! Appearing in our lives, in our hearts and at His Second Coming. He is what the Old Testament is about, He is what the New Testament is about...He is all and everything!! To call a false doctrine of escape from the Tribulation our blessed hope, verges on blasphemy!!

The third thing that casts doubt on the validity of John's study is his obsession with numbers, and relating numbers from a man-made source, Strong's Concordance, to the Truth revealed in Scripture. I have seen so many pre-tribbers do this. I know that the Hand of God wrote the Scriptures, but I doubt He also wrote the Concordance! John's study is almost entirely based on the numbers used in Strong's to denote different usages of Hebrew and Greek words. Truly, what do these numbers have to do with what is being conveyed in any verse of the Bible? To me, it is as if someone is purposely trying to not see the forest through the trees!! Basing Biblical proof on man-made numbers as to the timing of an event that is not even in the Bible, is confusing and taking something simple and complicating it to the point it is not even recognizable anymore.

I was also amazed at how many times John used the words such as these to describe the revelation he was getting: THE HIDDEN PROPHECY, UNCANNILY HIDDEN, VEILED, HINTED, and IS NOT EXPLICITLY REFERRED TO. This does not seem right, and verges on using numerology, which is a form a divination. This is almost an example of someone using the tools of Mystery Babylon, to discern the Truth of God!

We must take care to not focus on the Lord’s secret will inordinately and at the expense of His will revealed in Scripture. Primarily, we remember His hidden will so that we will not forget that God has a good purpose for His people that cannot be thwarted. But we are to live our lives according to His REVEALED will. What does the Bible say about this:

Deuteronomy 29:29
“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Isa 40:5
"And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and ALL FLESH SHALL SEE IT TOGETHER: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."

Mat 11:25
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

2Cr 4:2
"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

Isa 45:19
I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Jhn 18:20
"Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."

The mysteries of the Old Testament are revealed in the New Testament, and anything a believer needs to know Jesus plainly tells them. He plainly tells us that He is coming again, and what signs to look for. He never tells us He will be coming in secret before the Tribulation, nor did He share this with any of His disciples or followers. I think I trust what Jesus has to say about it, and I think we all should. It is dangerous to consider another Gospel.

Lastly, but very important, is John's usage of the phrase "The Day of the Lord", or should I say misusage. Actually it is his contrary usage that is the most confusing and telling at the same time. He does not seem to know what this day is, and not to know just what it means, as he uses it to describe the secret rapture in his title of his post, and then later on uses it to describe an event that happens after the rapture. Below are his words and quotes.

Here is the title of his post: "The Day of the LORD is finally here!"

And here is the next time he mentions it in the same way, as denoting the time of the secret rapture:

"Perhaps the fuzziness of the time window (fuzzy to them, that is) will lull them into sleep and the Day of the LORD will catch them unawares."

Then he uses the phrase two more times, and each of these times he is speaking about events that take place after the secret rapture.

"I venture to say that the rapture will take place in the year 2014 BEFORE the great and terrible day of the LORD comes."

"Besides indicating the start of the great and terrible day of the Lord,"

Which is it John? Is the Day of the Lord the secret Pre-Tribulation rapture, or is it the Second Coming, or is it something else all together? I am sorry, but someone who is so confused about this day, that they herald it as the secret rapture, and then shows it to be something that happens after the secret rapture, cannot be trusted to be rightly dividing the Word of God, to the point that anyone should believe it.

I think the Pre-Tribulation rapture theory is like a sinking ship, there are just too many holes in it to keep it afloat much longer. People are beginning to search the Scriptures for themselves and finding out the real Truth. I honestly feel that this study, by John Tgn, is a last ditch effort to hold on to something that has been a foundation for his other beliefs, and if this one is not true, he has to examine so many others.

I pray he comes to know the Truth, and begin to consider the studies of others, and allow those studies to be shared on his site. Things are happening fast, and there is little time to be lost in some false doctrine of escape.

Patti C.

P.S. This site is just the opposite, and is a great place to learn and grow, as many views are shared openly, and sincere debate is encouraged. If anyone from 5Doves is reading this, please consider checking out the information being shared here, and join in the conversation.

Re: For Doves and Watchmen on the Wall : Posted John Tng on Five Doves:The Day of the LORD is finall

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Re: For Doves and Watchmen on the Wall : Posted John Tng on Five Doves:The Day of the LORD is finall

Per John Tng's quote:

These are the six scriptures in which the Greek word G2015 is found: a) 2 Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [G2015] of his coming; b) 1 Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing [G2015] of our Lord Jesus Christ; c) 2 Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing [G2015] of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death; d) 2 Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing [G2015] and his kingdom; e) 2 Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing [G2015]; f) Ti 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing [G2015] of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

The above are undoubtedly rapture scriptures!


The Brightness of His Coming speaks of His Second Coming, does it not? The whole world will see His Coming.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Rev. 10:7 KJV


The above Mystery is perfectly matched by this scripture:
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, first the Dead in Christ will rise, then we which are alive at His coming. " I Corin. 15:51 KJV


Alright, now, if the Dead in Christ are raised BEFORE those living at His Coming, the above assumption that it is speaking of a Rapture cannot be made.


1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

14 For if we believe that Jesus is dead, and is risen, even so them which sleep in Jesus, will God bring with him.

15 For this say we unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which live, and are remaining in the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which sleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then shall we which live and remain, be caught up with them also in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I Thess. 14:17-17 GNV



I read the whole article and it seems that John has made a case for the Tetrads and word numbering that fall on the years of the Lord's Feast, happening together at End at the Jewish New Year of 2015/16 which shall produce the Year of Jubilee, when ALL debt is forgiven.

World conditions happening right now show all of the signs given in Matthew 24 adds to the lateness of the hour. When Israel is divided, there will be a quick Destruction. It has been told to Israel, through a Bible Code found that she is to see the Battle of Gog & Magog as one and the same with The Battle of Armageddon (in the Valley of Jehoshaphat}

There is no solid case whatsoever to believe that this would be the beginning of 7 years of Tribulation; especially when the Bible does not even mention 7 years tribulation. The scriptures in Daniel are referring to the last 7 years given to Israel to finish their period of transgression, of which we know, at least 3 1/2 years were accomplished by Jesus Christ's years of ministry and death.


gerlinda

Re: For Doves and Watchmen on the Wall : Posted John Tng on Five Doves:The Day of the LORD is finall

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