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 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)

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The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

  9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS

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Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV


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But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things
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Ps 122:6

Psa. 122:6   Pray  shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters):  prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.


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Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??

Hi Bob....

I'm sitting here chuckling at all I've seen in this series of postings....

Who is it who said, "Thou doth protest too much!"...maybe Shakespeare??

As for the title "The Role of Women In The Church", it's actually an OXYMORON!! There are no WOMEN OR MEN in the "body of Christ"...re-read Galatians 3:28. If GOD, HIMSELF, says there are no "WOMEN OR MEN" in His "Body", then why do some men insist on giving WOMEN "their role"???

Galatians 3:28 lists these kinds of people in the "body of Christ":

Jews....What is their role?
Greeks...What is their role?
bond....What is their role?
free....What is their role?
male....Their role is to be "head" over the female, according to some.
female...Their role is to be "subservient" to the male, according to some.

Yet, GOD SAYS, Ye are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus."

I WILL ALWAYS, AND WITHOUT DOUBT, BELIEVE GOD IN EVERYTHING!

Well, you all seem to have thoroughly covered your view of the "male" and "female" roles in the "body of Christ"!! So, now you can continue to let us know what the roles are of the others listed in Galatians 3:28.

God said we are all the same. You say we have different roles. Since you hold this to be true, I would like a listing for the roles of the others in the "body" as well!! You can't leave the others out when you've listed the other two as having different functions!!

THIS SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING.....I'll be waiting for your answer...

BTW....Since women should be "silent" in the churches, then is it still ok for a deaf and dumb woman to use "sign language", or should her hands be tied up?

Or maybe it would be better for just MEN to go to church and leave their wives at home. After all, why should she learn from others when her husband knows it all, anyway? And what about wives whose husbands are unbelievers? Or widows?

And how about the children? Separate the boys from the girls so you can teach the girls how LITTLE value they are in the "body of Christ"...and that way they will learn to shut up BEFORE they become women.

[Sounds a little like Islam to me....]


Anyway, thanks for the humor...I really did enjoy it!! I see a lot of the "Jezebel" spirit all over the place today!!! It's the "soul" part taking over the "spirit" part. (See article by J. Preson Eby....he's a MAN, so you can read it.)

Patti and I are having a very enjoyable time throwing our views out there!! She is a wonderful, very spiritual, and extremely educated female on the things of God!! And I wouldn't shut her up or change her in any way!! We don't argue....we discuss! And then we give Biblical points on our views as to why we think the way we do. But then, we're women...and I wouldn't change a thing about that!!

And, Bob, I think you're essentially a very nice man! Unlike some, you are willing to listen and evaluate things without an extreme "prejudice" as some have....although, I think you listen to others for your views at times. Listen to your heart....and let the Holy Spirit lead you to the truth.

Arlene

Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??



(2) A woman will fulfill her ministry in the church when she operates in the sphere which God has ordained for her. The primary sphere for the woman which God has ordained is the home. Now I know that some wives are better mechanics than their husbands, and that some husbands are better cooks than their wives. But this does not do away with the fact that God has ordained the home as the primary sphere of the woman. It should not be necessary to document this, but I think perhaps I should. In his instructions to Timothy, Paul has this word concerning young widows: “Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, bear children, keep house, and give the enemy no occasion for reproach” (1 Tim. 5:14). Notice these women are told to keep house. We find a similar expression in Paul’s letter to Titus where the older women are to teach the younger women to: “… love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be dishonored” (Titus 2:4b-5).

If there were ever a picture of the fully ‘liberated woman’ it is that drawn for us in Proverbs chapter 31. It is obvious that this woman is given a great deal of latitude and responsibility by her husband, but it is also clear that the central base of operations is the home. This is the sphere which God has appointed for the woman. The home and its related responsibilities are even the central thrust of the ministry of the woman who is more mature and perhaps gifted to teach. We just read the portion of Scripture from Titus 2:4-5 where the older women are to teach the younger women to be good wives and mothers, and housekeepers. It is a sad thing when young girls are raised in Christian homes which teach them to disdain the womanly arts of food preparation, sewing, and rearing children. There is a desperate need for this kind of ministry today as many young mothers did not have the opportunity to observe their mothers being housewives, because they were out working to support the family.

Now I can hear some of those single or divorced women saying, “But what about me? I’m not married. What can I do?” My answer, in short, is this, do what you see the godly women doing in the New Testament. In the New Testament we are taught and shown by example that we have an obligation to those who are orphans and widows, to those who are sick and destitute. Although Timothy is instructed to teach the older and younger men, and the older women, he is not told to teach the younger women (Titus 2:1-8). Women can surely minister more effectively to other women. Notice with me the requirements which Paul sets down for the widow who is to be put on the role of those who are regularly supported by the church: “Having a reputation for good works; and if she has brought up children, if she has shown hospitality to strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has assisted those in distress, and if she has devoted herself to every good work” (1 Tim. 5:10).

In Acts chapter nine we are told of Dorcas, who worked with the widows making garments, I would assume for use either by the needy or by those who ministered in the church.

Conclusion

According to the New Testament women cannot be leaders in the church, but they can help their husbands lead. Women should concentrate their efforts in the sphere of the home, and they should concentrate in the areas of ministry and service to others. Fulfillment is knowing your assigned role and then doing it to the glory of God. May God raise up godly women who will minister to and through their husbands, young women who will minister to those in need, older women who will minister to younger women, teaching them to be godly women and wives and mothers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18 Ralph H. Didier, “Paul’s Views on Women,” The Presbyterian Journal, 12-4-74, p. 7.

19 William O. Walker, “1 Cor. 11:2-16 and Paul’s View of Women,” Journal of Biblical Literature, March, 1975, pp. 94-110.

20 Ibid., p. 109.

21 Wayne A. Meeks, The Writings of St. Paul: A Critical Edition (New York: Norton, 1972), p. 38.

22 “Paul seems to have been an impetuous, gutsy, sometimes cranky guy.” Joyce Erickson, “A Biblical View of Women,” Seattle Pacific College Alumni Magazine, Autumn, 1974, p. 1.

23 Richard C. Devor, “When We’re Blindsighted by the Gospel,” Encounter, Autumn, 1974, p. 368f.

24 Ibid., p. 381.

25 Cited from a review of “Man as Male and Female,” by Patricia Gundry, Moody Month, October, 1975, p. 36.

26 Gary North, “The Covering FOR the Woman’s HEAD: Another View,” The Banner of Truth, October, 1971, p. 26.

27 The source information on the first sentence in this quote is unavailable.

28 William Barclay, The Letters to the Galatians and Ephesians (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, [revised edition], 1976), p. 168.

29 Linda Sellevaag, “Jesus and Women,” HIS, May ’73, p. 10.

30 Elisabeth Elliot Leitch, “A Christian View of Women’s Liberation,” Interest, November, 1975, p. 5.

31 Ibid., p. 4.





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

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Ybic
Steven



Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??

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Hi Arlene, WOW, major rabbit trail, why don't we get back on POINT of what I actually said to start with, I asked why God choose all MEN to pen the bible, and about Eve being deceived in the Garden being a reason for this, and Woman having specific and different roles as Men do, and that Woman are not to teach or have authority over a Man, its not a question of what I think, or what you think, its a question of what God and His word says, PERIOD !
If we MAKE the scripture what we want it to be, instead of what it really says and means, that is not rightly dividing the word, that is changing the word to fit our feelings, fleshly, not spiritual to say the least.

Here is a good article that clearly uses scripture in the correct context, I hope this helps your understanding and benefits and edifies all.

Arlene, I am not a good orator, so please forgive me, I do my best with the Strength of the Lord.



Question: "Women pastors / preachers? Can a woman be a pastor or preacher?"

Answer: There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors/preachers. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as preachers and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.

The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13-14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority.

There are many “objections” to this view of women in ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, the majority of Jesus' disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, who was the pastor of the church in Ephesus). The city of Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, a false Greek/Roman goddess. Women were the authority in the worship of Artemis. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention Artemis worship as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

A third common objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words in the passage could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words refers to men and women. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8-10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9-10)? Of course not. Verses 8-10 clearly refer to all men and women, not only husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a switch to husbands and wives in verses 11-14.

Yet another frequent objection to this interpretation of women in ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. This objection fails to note some significant factors. First, Deborah was the only female judge among 13 male judges. Huldah was the only female prophet among dozens of male prophets mentioned in the Bible. Miriam's only connection to leadership was being the sister of Moses and Aaron. The two most prominent women in the times of the Kings were Athaliah and Jezebel—hardly examples of godly female leadership. Most significantly, though, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue. The book of 1 Timothy and the other Pastoral Epistles present a new paradigm for the church—the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves the authority structure for the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.

Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla's name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more “prominent” in ministry than her husband. However, Priscilla is nowhere described as participating in a ministry activity that is in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Priscilla and Aquila brought Apollos into their home and they both discipled him, explaining the Word of God to him more accurately (Acts 18:26).

In Romans 16:1, even if Phoebe is considered a “deaconess” instead of a “servant,” that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Elders/bishops/deacons are described as the “husband of one wife,” “a man whose children believe,” and “men worthy of respect.” Clearly the indication is that these qualifications refer to men. In addition, in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, masculine pronouns are used exclusively to refer to elders/bishops/deacons.

The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the “reason” perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for” and gives the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived.” God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. This order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church. The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This leads some to believe that women should not teach because they are more easily deceived. That concept is debatable, but if women are more easily deceived, why should they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? That is not what the text says. Women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. As a result, God has given men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helps. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html#ixzz2eQwgQ6g4



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??

Nice going, Bob!!

Well, all three of you "gentlemen" (and I use that term very loosely here) have expressed your opinion that women should be silent and let men do the teaching.

I would not want to go against what you believe very strongly....

So, therefore, you will hear nothing but SILENCE from me....and that should be pleasing to you all....

Arlene


Proverbs 26:12..."Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

Yes...The Bible tells it just like it is...

Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??

Hi Arlene, I would never expect a reaction like this from you, that is not what the article says, but how you see it, the women's role is clearly spelled out, so if you don't abide by it, you are not doing the will of God.
If we all ( including myself ) followed the scripture we would be a lot better off, and the world would be a truly greater place for everyone, we just don't get it, or we would do just that, the flesh is weak, but the spirit is willing.
The bottom line is that YOUR WORD is not the final authority here or anywhere else, its Gods word that is Sharper then any two edged sword.

I truly believe woman has somewhat USURPED AUTHORITY over the man in several areas, and is the result of many problems both in the family and the world today, just look around its very clear to see.
Man is no exception to this, and is guilty as charged, all have fallen short, non are perfect ( except Jesus ).
I was the only son from broken home, never knowing my mother,( she left when I was 1 year old) and how much I wonder how different both her and I would be today had we had each other growing up. When I would go to friends for holidays and such, I would always notice how wonderful my friends mom's were, and how I wished I had my own mother and the special bond that comes with that.
A women's ROLE is unquestionably a VITAL part of Man and our existence, and cannot be overlooked by any means, but I can truly see from first hand knowledge why God gave women and men ROLE'S that when are not followed they can and do have severe consequences as seen by the mess we all are in these days.
Anything I have said has been in love for all man (woman) kind.

Agape, Bob

Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


To everyone, including myself.

Colossians 4:6

King James Version (KJV)


Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??

Good one Bob,
But let us consider what Jesus had to say to the Pharisee....ye vipers, ye white washed tombs, who consider the outside of the cup while the inside is filthy. You serpents who are of your father the devil, who won't enter into the Kingdom yourself and prevent others from doing so.

It is not okay to just dismiss the Truth. That is the whole problem with our pastors and preachers and modern day lukewarm churches. We must look inside ourselves and deal with our own spiritual messes before we point fingers at others and tell them to just behave like a Christian, and the rest will come. Are you into the fake it until you make it crowd? What was being pointed out in Arlene's article was the truth about what is inside of us all...male or female...it was not about our roles in the Church, the literal church, it was about our roles as saved souls in the Body of Christ. That should not have been difficult to see, if you really read what she had to say.

One thing I will say that is really positive about women, they sure seem to be able to SPIRITUALLY DISCERN MATTERS MUCH BETTER THAN MEN. I would love to meet a man who really takes His role in the Church as SPIRITUAL LEADER, seriously and stops with everything being materially based. Where are these men? It would surely be nice to happen upon one.

Please forgive me, but I am shocked by how this subject got so far removed from its original topic, which had nothing to do with Churches or husbands and wives, but did have to do with looking at the inside of one's cup, not just polishing the outside!!

Praise the Lord!

Patti C.

Re: "WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT IN THE CHURCH".....The question is, "What women"??



Hi Bob,

Excellent comment and post!


Hi Patti,

I'm sorry to see this comment since Bob was doing all he could to keep peace and be a peacemaker.

Yes, we all know that MEN and WOMEN have made errors in interpreting scripture and yes Jesus did let the Pharisees have it, but Jesus also gave GRACE to the HUMBLE and JESUS did resist the proud.

Thanks Bob, for your effort to keep peace without insulting anyone or anybody.

Also for trying to let the WORD of God instruct us.

God Bless

Steven