Greetings John and Doves,

Whenever we hear " Can't we all just get along?" we always get a little smile as we think of Rodney King, and the media made such a joke of it that we still smile when we hear it. But it is not funny. This is what The King of kings has commanded us to do. We are the kings ( small k )

Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

who are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves.

Mat_22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I have re-posted a letter below that I wrote a few weeks ago on vilifying fellow Christians. I don't think we as Christians realize the danger of this and how responsible we are for the very words we type and post. When we post a letter on a Christian web site we are as responsible for what we say as a Pastor is standing before a congregation.

HEY FELLOW CHRISTIANS!!!! STOP ATTACKING YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST.


1 John 4:1-3 tells us how to test the spirits and if they pass this test, leave them alone. Even if they are tares, leave them alone. I'm very sorry to everyone reading this and beg your forgiveness for the sharpness of my tongue, but this is so serious. Why do you think we are told to leave the tares alone?

Mat_18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

If you come after Christians with accusations, you are an accuser of the Brethren!!!! I know this is a hard word but unfortunately those who accuse the brethren will now try to get other Christians to chime in and now you get dissension in the camp. ( one of the 7 things God hates) I plead with you to stop this un-Godly behavior. This is a Rapture web site and you'd have to be blind and deaf to not see and/hear that we are in the very very last days and the real enemy is coming at us, we don't need to attack each other over doctrinal differences. We need to press on to perfection and not worry so much about doctrines:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

I would like address a situation that has caused me to write these two posts. There is another rapture site I frequent, but it's set up as a forum, and unlike Doves where the letters are posted daily (used to be anyway) and John screens certain letters ( this does keep out trouble makers, and is why I love this site) and most other sites let you respond immediately, which can create a passionate debate. The person who runs this other site loves Jesus ( I started talking to him a few months ago and he really loves The Lord. He states on the headliner of his site that he believes Jesus of Nazareth is the only begotten Son, who came in the flesh, and died for our sins, he believes in the Trinity, and he believes the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and The Holy Spirit will teach us all things. ( Actually just today he banned someone who said the Koran was equal to the Bible)

He has more than passed the test of 1 John 4:1-3 and this should have been sufficient. One day all was going on as usual, then one of his frequent posters writes a letter defending her belief in no literal hell. Then another contributor to that site is outraged that the owner of the site lets her post that. Even though the owner totally disagrees ( he believes in an eternal, literal hell) he lets the letter stand advising this second person to take this as an opportunity to respond with Scriptures to teach that hell is real ( an easy task as even Jesus said more about hell than Heaven because it is so terrible and He wants us to avoid it at all costs) instead they start attacking his other beliefs ( from tithing. church attendance, promoting cult teaching etc...) because they "don't have the time". What a lost opportunity.
This other site is not like Doves, it's almost like a chat room, and I'm very careful to not respond so quickly in those type of sites. I will wait an entire day before I send response letters to anyone, even in the secular world (I learned from my partner, who owns a law firm, that 99% of the time you will change something in your letter when you read it the following day), but he has a disclaimer that he doesn't endorse every post, and prays iron will sharpen iron and the Truth will come out, and his forum will help mature believers to reason the Scriptures with one another.

He does however keep out cults like Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and now even United Church of Pentecost. I'm sorry for the length of this but it saddens me so to see him attacked when he loves Jesus so much and puts in so much time on this site that has fed me much meat this year. Then of coarse I actually fruit inspected him and after all the attacks....he never responded..he always turned the other cheek.

One last point <[:o) this same person forwarded an e-mail to me today knowing I support this other site, questioning my beliefs, in the same ares he attacked this other Christan...wow...I can't even come close to telling you how uncomfortable this made me feel. Here it is though:

> I wonder if you could share a few things
> The reason I ask this is because many people share on Christian web
> sites so some of us make an assumption that we all understand the basics
> I understand you appreciate bible prophecy like many here and I
> appreciate that.
> What I would like to know is if you follow the 7th Day Adventist teaching
> The reason I am asking this is because of our previous discussion
> Do you believe that the bible teaches a literal eternal hell?
> Do you believe that Christians should support the church, the body of
> Christ through tithing?
> Do you believe that Christians should fellowship in a church?
> Would you support those who teach otherwise?

Let me just answer these, starting with the latter and work my way up.

1. If the pass the testing of the spirits ( see letter below too) Yes we ALL see through a glass darkly and no man has it ALL right, and I pray The Holy Spirit teaches me. I've learned over 41 years of serving Jesus that you can learn from anyone.

2. My father was a pastor for over 20 years, a traveling Evangelist for 24 years before. I belong to a local body, I attend when possible, I encourage my 4 children, two step children, and 9 grand kids to do the same.

3. Really???? OK Yes I Tithe to my Church.

4. I most certainly am not OSAS and fear I The One who can through my body, soul, and spirit into a literal hell that will be thrown into an eternal lake of fire.

5a. I follow many of their teachings because they believe in what most Christians believe. Do I keep a Saturday Sabbath? No Are they a cult? a resounding No again. And saying that I will copy an answer here from elsewhere:

5b.
In conclusion, one must be careful when trying to determine the orthodoxy of an entire group. The Adventists are a prime example of a denomination with some outrageous claims, but still holding to Christian truth at its core. They have historically had some biblically questionable stances on those issues such as the Sabbath, the Old Testament law, annihilation of the wicked, and investigative judgment. But to place them outside Christian orthodoxy when they teach the divinity of Jesus, the doctrine of the Trinity, salvation by grace through faith alone, and the inspiration of the Scriptures would be too much. I suppose it would be best to take each Adventist on a case by case basis.
There are certainly many strong believers in this movement. The moral character of Seventh-Day Adventists cannot be questioned. In fact, it ought to be commended. And it takes one who is dedicated to knowing God's word thoroughly to carry on a dialogue with an Adventist due to the questionable ideas and their adamant stances, but it is still very important not to rob them of their significant place in the body of Christ.

For the full article from Probe Ministries:

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223487/k.8916/Are_SeventhDay_Adventists_Christians_or_a_Cult.htm

I will take each Adventist like a Catholic ...on an individual basis

Agape
Charles Holler Sr

Charles Holler (28 July 2013)
"The Danger of Bewitching Christians"

Greetings John and Doves,
There was a recent post from Frank M:

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2013/frankm723-4.htm

and I want to start by saying how much I enjoy Frank M's posts and frankly let me be frank, no your frank, but I need to be frank....just a little humor, not that you haven't heard that before. Seriously though I have to say I was grieved and concerned about the above post I put a link to. I've come here for 14 years and I haven't seen John let even 1 web site get referenced here that was run by witches. You go on to describes five actions that in only your opinion describes someone operating in witchcraft " I would have to says a bewitched person is anyone who has a hatred for church, fellowshipping, tries to tear down basic biblical truths, refuses to participate in supporting the church,and has a hatred towards Israel" while omitting the only real ways as described in Scripture, the first being rebellion:

1Sa_15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

and the second is just anyone involved directly in the occult:

2Ch_33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

We get attacked from unbelievers enough without turning on our own brothers and sisters in Christ. We really need to guard ourselves against vilifying fellow Christians just because we have a difference of opinion. We are to let the tares grow as hard as it is to do.

There is a place though for discernment, but we need to do it in the only two ways the Scripture tells us. It doesn't give a way to test, that litmus test is posted above, but it is a way to help us stay away from confessing Christians. The first one of coarse is:

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

and the other is to be a fruit inspector:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

I hope you maybe then take a second look at these Christian web sites that you vilifyed
and see if they pass the Scripture test and even go the second mile....Do they confess Jesus is Lord? Do they say the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God? I'm going to go out on a limb now and assume you just chose the wrong word "bewitching" but if not please tell us who they are. Jesus told us to not accuse the Brethren of this by His own example:

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Could these web sites maybe just have doctrinal differences? Or are they operating in the flesh?

al 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Even though we are to be fruit inspectors and test the spirits let us remember what our Lord Jesus said about this:

Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30a Let both grow together until the harvest:

and Paul followed His example in Philippians by saying that even if ones motives are not in love and they preach Christ for other reasons like envy or financial gain, Paul even rejoiced that the preach it:

Php 1:14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Php 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Php 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Frank, I once again stress brother that I enjoy your posts and I pray my tongue was not to sharp here but a day is coming brother and it is sooner than we think and ALL Christians will be persecuted by the world for our most simple doctrinal beliefs and when we stand up against same sex marriage the way we tried to stand against abortion, they will come at us with both barrel's blazing. We won't be coming against teenage girls and house wives like abortion but a well organized group who has beaten down every opponent of the homosexual movement including our own government and won and now the only ones left are the Church and we are in their cross hairs.

May The Lord Jesus have mercy on us and give us the strength to stand against this onslaught and the Love to come together with fellow believers as the lines are being drawn now and compromise could cost one their very soul.

Agape,
Charles Holler Sr

Re: Charles Holler, Sr....


Where to begin is the question....there are so many things wrong in this kind of understanding...

I'll just hit the high points which struck my heart.

You speak of sticking to what the Bible says to do, yet you confess that your father was a Pastor for 20 years, you go to church, and you encourage your kids and grandkids to do the same.

Where in the Bible do you find the doctrine of "going to church"?? The "body of Christ" IS THE CHURCH. ALL the different "denominations" today are wrong. There is not ONE in the bunch that is following what Jesus Christ said to do. We are supposed to be ONE BODY with the "mind of Christ"....see I Corinthians 1:10 and 2:16.

That example ("going to church", yourself) shows complete DISOBEDIENCE to Scripture instructions for the "body of Christ".

When you speak of the "spirit of antichrist", would that not include those who do not THINK as Jesus Christ thought? Is Jesus Christ a God of LOVE, or is He seen to be a God of vengeful retribution?

If the "fruit of the Spirit" (Galatians chapter 5) is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, LONGSUFFEREING, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MEEKNESS, AND TEMPERANCE, then how on earth can you justify the belief that 95% of the world's people who have ever lived will be consigned to an "eternal torment in hell"?? What kind of "fruit" does that show? Love? Hardly!!

However, the "works of the flesh" (the antichrist spirit) show EXACTLY what the belief in eternal torment has as "fruit"....among them are HATRED AND MURDER.

Which one has the "mind of Christ"? I guess we should really discern who are our "brothers and sisters" in Christ! It is those who are of the SAME MIND as we are....and we have the "mind of Christ"!...I Cor.2:16.

AND WHAT DOES THE "MIND OF CHRIST" (Who is GOD) THINK ABOUT THIS DOCTRINE OF BURNING IN HELL? He tells us in Jeremiah 32:35:

"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnon, to cause their sons and their daughters to PASS THROUGH THE FIRE UNTO MOLECH: WHICH I COMMANDED THEM NOT, NEITHER CAME IT INTO MY MIND, THAT THEY SHOULD DO THIS ABOMINATION, to cause Judah to sin."

That verse tells us EXACTLY what God thinks about BURNING ANYONE...let alone, forever!!

Have you ever STUDIED the doctrine? Or do you just believe what you are told by your Pastor? What if he is WRONG? This affects what you think of God, Himself? Do you believe Him to be all-loving (as the Bible says) and all merciful (as the Bible says)?

If not, you believe in the WRONG God! If you believe in a hateful, vengeful God (like the one who burns his "children"....Molech), then those who love the God of the Bible have to reconsider calling you "brother or sister" in Christ....because you are obviously NOT "IN CHRIST" at all!


"Study to show thyself approved unto God"....II Tim.2:15....I wouldn't want to be "ashamed" before God when I face Him. You claim that Jesus talked more about throwing people into hell than He did about heaven....I don't think so! How "loving" would that show Him to be? I could not love a God like Molech.


http://www.jesusreligion.com/restoreall.html


Piece of the link:


"According to scripture, Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, created all things; reconciles all
things; is heir of all things; has authority of all things; will have all men to be saved; His grace
comes to all men; He takes away the sin of the world; He gives His flesh for the life of the world.
He is the propitiation for the sins of the world; whose gifts are irrevocable, of which life is one of
the gifts. He manifested to put away sin. He preached to the spirits in prison and holds the keys to
death and hell; who changes not. He is Lord of both the living and the dead; He will destroy all
enemies of God, the last one being death; who made all things alive; who completes the work the
Father gave Him to do; who restores all things; gave Himself a ransom for all. He takes away the
curse and said He came to do the will and work of the Father, who wills that all men be saved
and come to the knowledge of the truth, so that God may be all in all!"

************

Do a study of what the early, and uncorrupted, "church" believed....it was the doctrine of "universal restoration"....and all of creation is awaiting this time. See Romans 8:22. Those with the "mind of Christ" HEARS what the Spirit of God is telling us. Before we were in the womb, God knew ALL OF US...Jeremiah 1:5. NO EXCEPTIONS! And we will ALL eventually be "conformed to the image of His Son"...Romans 8:29. The "elect" in this age...and the remainder in the ages to come. This message is there, but we have to "dig for it"....Proverbs 25:2....not just listen to what "professional Pastors" (who are unbiblical) tell us.

Arlene

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