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THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY BIBLE VERSES SHOWING 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
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While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. John 17:15 (KJV)
JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matt. 24:29 (KJV)
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." I Corin. 15:52
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture".
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10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Psa. 122:6 Pray shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters): prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.
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JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:
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Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's return!
I'm glad your thinking wasn't what I interpreted it to be! I've been pretty messed up in my thinking before the Holy Spirit started guiding me on the REAL path to the truth.
I don't really like to burst people's bubbles, but there will be no "7-year-tribulation" for anyone! That's dispensational thinking from misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27. There will be no "reign of Antichrist" for seven years.
It was Jesus Christ (the Messiah) who "confirmed the covenant with many"...NOT the "Antichrist" as so many think. See Galatians 3:17 for proof positive. Also, no matter how many times you read the Book of Revelation, there will NEVER, ANYWHERE, be found a "7-year-period of time" for ANYONE.
Lately, I have learned that the 1,260 days is a symbolic number of "ministry of God's word"....just like Jesus had His ministry for 3 1/2 years.
What would a "tribulation" period be specific for anyway?? God is NOT going to "turn back to the Jews" once He's finished with the Gentiles (Nations). That is just NOT in the Bible! We are ALL in "tribulation" every day of our lives....and some more than others. Those whom the Father "draws" will be tried and tested in this age. For others, it will come in another age. NOBODY gets saved unless the Father "draws him"....and He does NOT draw everyone! See John 6:44.
That dispensationalist thinking is very hard to drop. I believed it for over 20 years...and I fought "tooth and nail" for this belief until God opened by eyes to the truth. And, as Steven and I have discussed in the past, if you don't know who "Israel" is, then you have the wrong interpretation of the end-time prophecies.
HINT: ISRAEL is NOT the "Jews"....never was, and never will be. "Israel" has always been followers of God....OT and NT....beginning with Jacob/Israel just before the birth of the last two sons...Joseph and Benjamin. Prior to that time, all ELEVEN of the sons of Jacob were just that..."Sons of Jacob". See Genesis 32:22. After he became "Israel", then Joseph and Benjamin were born. Those two tribes were the ONLY "Sons of Israel" at that time.
In the OT, the people of Israel (followers of God) were a "mixed multitude"...Ex.12:38. In the NT, they are those who believe in Jesus Christ...see Galatians 6:15-16. If God gives us the definition of "Israel", then we ought to believe Him!! Believers have a "circumcised heart" and they are considered to be "spiritual Jews" (and I think that is a very confusing term that has been used in the KJV translation.) By this definition (given by God), circumcised Jews aren't even "Jews" in God's eyes....only believers are.
However, if one practices and believes in JUDAISM (Jews)....they are UNBELIEVERS just like Buddists, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc....and none of those groups are any more special in God's eyes than any of the others.
But, eventually, according to the Bible....they will ALL BE SAVED...maybe not in this age, but in the ages to come. Jesus Christ died for EVERYBODY...the "sin of the world". But God, the Father, does not DRAW everybody in this age. There will be some kind of horrendous culmination coming up...sooner than later....but, it's not going to be for any special people....and it won't be for "seven years"...
Thank you, Patti...for treating me with such kindness!! You are a special lady!
You are so right! It is a defining moment when we realize the Truth of who Israel really is!! IT CHANGES EVERYTHING!! I was given this revelation over a year ago, but each time I tried to write about it on FD's, it would not get posted. I wrote an article about Natural and Spiritual Israel, and how ALL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, ARE ONE IN CHRIST, AND BECOME GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE.
Yes, it is this knowledge that opens the door to a flood of truth, and right now those flood gates are open in my heart and I am studying and gathering as much information as I can on what is being revealed to me. For now I am collecting information and doing research in the Bible, in the concordance, and on line. Not sure what I will write when I calm down and start to put pen to paper.
I do know what I am up against on a web site that will only consider a pre-tribulation view, but even there the tone is changing, and I am not the only one waking up to these truths. There are rays of light beginning to shine on that site, but we will see if it takes hold and this issue will be allowed to be addressed, openly. I know I have to be careful in how I present these truths, and make sure that I use the whole armor of God, especially the sword of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Word of God.
I am determined not to write anything that the Lord does not tell me to. This is a time of listening and learning....of being a student and not a teacher, until the Lord shows me that is what He wants me to do.
Keep the great articles coming, and know that you have someone listening and absorbing all that the Lord is teaching you, and you are sharing with all of us here.
Thank you for your kindness.
Hi again, Patti....
There are so many deep things you speak of....and I think most Christians don't think deeply enough on certain things!
But you do!! And I do, as well! And I love to hear of these deeper things from others because I have studied them as well...before I became a Christian. I was, myself, deeply into the "New Age" with Jeanne Dixon, Edgar Cayce, Ruth Montgomery, et al.
At one time in my early life, I was so far into the "bottom of the pit" within myself that I had to look up to even see the bottom....and that's when God put forth His mighty hand and pulled me out!! And, even then, I kicked and screamed with every inch because when someone gets accustomed to darkness, the "light" tends to be very uncomfortable at first.
But, because of this experience, I can sometimes see more clearly when others are dangerously near this very dark place....and sometimes I jump in to pull them out without thinking first.
I think you spoke once of the "prince of the power of the air"...and it reminded me of Eby's explanation of this. This link was an extension of one I just posted, but I remember having read it before.
I thought it might interest you at this point:
Piece of the link article:
Never forget, my beloved, that all the attributes and characteristics of the Holy Spirit and the Un-Holy Spirit ARE SPIRIT, and therefore energy — power! As we walk in either of these realms of spirit-power there is ALWAYS A TRANSMISSION OF ENERGY! None of us is an island to ourself, the emanations that flow out from our life affect the world around us and change things, consciously or unconsciously, visibly or invisibly, for the better or for the worse. There is constantly in this world a definite transference of spirit energy from person to person, from group to group, from religion to religion, from nation to nation, positive or negative as the case may be. The rise and success of false religions, communism, sexual immorality, rock music, drugs, humanism, and evils of every kind that are flooding our societies today, are the direct result of negative satanic spirit influences transmitted to the masses through faithful ministers of unrighteousness who have become filled with the UN-HOLY SPIRIT, and consequently transmitters of the same, producing a SURCHARGED ATMOSPHERE! This, my beloved, is “the power of the air,” the “spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience!” Satan has a large elemental power. He is named the “prince” of the power of the air, meaning he is the INVISIBLE RULER, which activity and authority he exercises IN AND THROUGH MAN! Truly, he is the spirit that “worketh in the sons of disobedience.”
The word for “air” in the Greek language is aer meaning “to breathe.” The “power of the air” is thus the ENERGY OF BREATHING! Thoughts from the unconscious realm breathed out — expressed in words in the conscious realm and lived out as deeds in the physical realm — go forth as energy, power, soulical and spiritual influences in the very atmosphere of the earth. These are not merely thoughts or merely words, for the soul and spirit of man are tapped into the timeless sphere of eternity wherein is that which is called by the scriptures “the powers of the heavens.” This is the realm of pure energy, and the unconscious mind of man is tapped into this vast supply of energy, either positive or negative, and not only tapped in, but when the mouth is opened, or the body acts, the energy is brought forth through the conscious realm and released into the atmosphere of man’s physical world, carrying a very real power capable of either blessing or cursing mankind!
Some Christians can understand deep spiritual things, and some don't have a clue about them. Everything that carnal Chrisitans read from the bible, they interpret as being in the "natural" realm of things they can "see" and "touch". So, if this spirituality doesn't interest you, just pass it on by....I wouldn't have given a "hoot" about it 5 years ago....but now it's a perfect explanation for me about this "prince of the power of the air"...
...Thank you for sharing that!! We have so much in common, as even our background of studying New Age spirituality, before coming to Christ, is another common bond between us. I feel this actually was a valuable lesson, and can be a valuable tool in helping us distinguish the Truth from the lies. When I was a child, I grew up on a farm, and spent much time alone with nature and animals, yet, there was always someone with me and I could feel His loving presence and even talk with Him, and I called Him Papa. We must become as children to enter the kingdom of God.
I knew this loving presence was Jesus, especially after going to Church and learning about Him. He does live in our hearts, and somehow as we grow older we do not listen anymore, or the worries of the world take over our thoughts and actions. I never joined the Church, but taught Bible School, sang in the choir, washed dishes for the ladies luncheons etc....it all seems so un- spiritual to me, and until I could see the spirit of the matter, it was not of any value. That is why the New Age held so much promise, because it was all about being spiritual, and back in the 70's, that was an exciting thing!!
Yet, just as you said, there came a point where it all hit bottom, and I knew the answers I was seeking about the Truth could not be found in that arena. That is when Jesus found me...totally discouraged and wondering what it all meant. I was immediately changed in the moment He appeared to me, and the only word I spoke was "YES".
From that instant on, it has been a very spiritual journey with Him as the source. I feel we are to experience the Lord on a spiritual level, NOT A RELIGIOUS ONE. Religion is the opposite of the Truth, religion began with Satan and will end with Him. Religion is the pinned down dead butterfly, that all the world admires; while the Truth is LIVING and still flying around. The Truth, which is Christ, Jesus, cannot be pinned down with the ideas in the darkened minds of men.
Yes, our minds must be renewed at the same time our hearts are, and we become a new creation, new creature and have a personal relationship with our Creator. Those who are born again in this way become the chosen ones, the elect, God's own people, Israel.
Noah had this relationship, Abraham had this relationship, Moses had this relationship and we have this relationship too. It all boils down to that. If we do not know Jesus in an intimately spiritual way, through His Holy Spirit, then he will never know us.
It is all very spiritual, and when we are born again, our minds ponder spiritual matters, and we begin to live our lives on a whole new level...the level of Love for our Creator, and stop using our minds to create our creator. The mind is where the matrix of evil resides, and can only begin to be overcome by being born again from above, and baptized in the FIRE of the Holy Spirit.
Oh my gosh!! I did not mean to go on like that!! Your letters and the articles you send always get me to that deep thinking and reflecting place. Please forgive my long responses. This correspondence with you has been very enlightening, helpful and heartening! As, I have absolutely no one who will spend any time talking together on this level, and no one to share deep thoughts with, and I feel like I made a "meant to be" friend in you.
Thanks for the article and everything else!!
Bless you, girl!
AMEN Arlene!!! (this conversation, between us, is almost as good as the ideal Church (Bible study) you described!!!
I woke up this morning knowing what I was to read, study and eventually write about, and it is exactly what we have been talking about....the difference between Truth and Religion. It goes all the way back to the Beginning, when Satan tempted Eve with eating from the tree of Knowledge. This knowledge, when separated from God and His Spirit, leads to "religion and the religious spirit of the anti-Truth, and the anti-Christ.
Since we have been talking about this over the past several days, I was anxious to see if you had responded to my last letter, so looked and saw that you had. But, instead of reading it right away, decided to do my study on what the Lord was placing on my heart, before I read what you had said.
I spent 6 hours gathering material and Scripture to write my article, and know that it will take me a few days to get it all on paper. I am so excited, as revealing this one Truth, about the difference between truth seeking and religion seeking, opens the door for so many other truths!! It will help one in understanding who Israel is, and who the antichrist, false prophet, and the image of the beast are. It will help in knowing the timing of the Lord's return; this understanding of the difference between Truth and religion is a foundational STONE, it is all about THE ROCK, WHICH IS JESUS....the one we either stumble over, or that will crush us. We must be able to see this difference, or we are all just like Eve, and will be deceived.
Bless you Arlene, for your fabulous studies that reveal this Truth, and for you words of personal experience with it. I pray many people are reading this dialogue between us, as it is as you say, a Bible study between two TRUTH SEEKING BELIEVERS, sharing sacred Scripture and Biblical truth, in a loving and personal way, just like the Lord wants His Church to do.
This conversation with you has been such a GIFT to me, I humbly thank the Lord for us getting to know each other on a Spiritual level, as this proves we really are sisters in Christ.
Maybe you should be getting these awesome studies out there more in the public eye with starting a new letter or post. Your information is so good, I just hope people are reading what you are sharing with me.
I am honored to know you!
Hi Patti....Please, don't give me "honor" because I neither seek it nor do I want it!!
We should all honor each other EQUALLY when the truth is spoken according to God's word(s) alone. God is the one who does the leading to the things that I find that I pass on to others.
Like everyone else, my heart is also "desperately wicked"...and like everyone else, this is a continuous battle within me. The moment I see anything like PRIDE popping up in myself, I turn to God to take it out IMMEDIATELY!!
It took me many years, even decades, to be able to actually "see" what the lessons are underneath the DEEP layers of Scripture. And, like you, I see the fault is in the HUGH "religious systems" of today's churches. They keep everybody on the superficial layers with just enough information to make sure they stay "blind as a bat" to the things of the Holy Spirit of God.
The marvelous thing about following the TRUTH alone is that after a while, if a lie is spoken, it pops up like a "red flag" in a field of white! People, particularly Christians, don't like to be told that they are believing lies...and they will attack the messenger with everything they have! They give great "honor" to the Pastors who have taught them. And these Pastors will accept this honor with great relish.
Luke 20:46..."Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts; (vs.47) Which devour widows' houses, and for a show make long prayers: the same shall receive GREATER D*MNATION."
These "scribes" of yesteryear are today's Pastors who "peddle their wares" to unsuspecting, and unlearned, Christians wanting to know some NEW THING. People who call themselves "Christians", but who are actually those "wolves in sheep's clothing" are men like Mark Biltz who has conned millions of Christians into becoming more "Jewish" in their thinking.
And it spreads like a DISEASE among those who listen to them. I know this because I was among their "disciples" at one time. If you actually READ Leviticus 23 about the Feasts of the Lord, you will not find ONE "Jewish" description among them. And if you try to find out the TRUE meaning behind the Feasts ANYWHERE, you will ALWAYS find the statement "according to Jewish history and tradition" inserted into the material.
This has badly tainted the TRUTH about these Feasts of God. Those "waters" have been poisoned....and Christians are drinking it without question!!
Take the "Feast of Trumpets", for instance. JEWISH TRADITION has this "Feast" as some kind of MARRIAGE CELEBRATION. However, I find that NOWHERE in God's description of the Feasts of the Lord. Trumpets were for WARNINGS OF IMPENDING DANGERS, WARS, AND ASSEMBLIES.....just as the Trumpet Judgments of Revelation describe! There is NO "Rosh HaShanna" in the Bible...not in Leviticus, and certainly not in the Book of Revelation.
But, now, trying to fight against this is like trying to UNWEAVE a demonic tapestry that has been conjured up by evil spirits. No "Christian" wants to have their "pet doctrine" attacked....even if it's wrong!
If someone can prove me wrong, I'll be the first to admit my mistake! However, that would take too much time, effort, and study to do....and most Christians are too lazy to search for the truth. But, if our "spiritual muscles" are to be exercised, we can't let someone else do the work for us. Nobody gets a result of good abdominal muscles by having someone else do their "sit-ups" for them!!
Apr 18, 2014 - 5:24PM
Re: IT'S HAPPENING ON ALL LEVELS
I am bumping up this entire thread because there are some good things here that are valid and are good reminders of the Spiritual nature of what is happening as well as what is taking place in the world.
Arlene makes some really good points and offers good links to articles that present her concepts. A hearty discussion between sisters in Christ about the spiritual nature of these end times.
Also, for anyone who is just finding out the Truth of who Israel really is this may be some interesting information.
Blessings to all!!
JESUS IS ALL AND EVERYTHING!!
Was just viewing some of the latest video news, and this thread came to mind, as it is HAPPENING ON ALL LEVELS and has accelerated almost totally out of control! Seems the more the world winds down, the more man speeds up, in his running to and fro.
We need to be Spirit filled. This is crucial! Everything is shaking as we wobble to the end of the world, and ourselves.
Interesting conversation this...and very timely.
Hold on tight to the Lord!!
Jesus IS All and EVERYTHING!!