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After deep thought and searching the scriptures, I have got to respond to your hatred of the word "Jew". I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you are wrong!
You refer a tremendous amount of your theories from mans teachings as you refer often to other mens writings that are not from the scriptures. I know, I know, you take the good out of the bad, so it is ok to read other writings, But. When it is scripture that you are quoting and backing it up with writings of ordinary "men", I have to respond.
You wrote in your post the following:
Search the history of the Bible. In the original manuscripts, the word "Jew" was not there. That word was added during the 1800s, in some cases, for substitution for the word "Judah"...or those who were apostate from Judah (and became the religion of Judaism, who called themselves "Jews" or "Jewish"....see Rev.2:9 and 3:9).
You are using Revelation 2:9 to back up your theory that the "Jews" or the Jewish people are of the synagogue of Satan. You have TOTALLY missed the meaning of this verse! Firstly, the only word mentioned here is Jews. And the verse is saying: They say they are Jews, but are NOT, because their synagogue belongs to Satan.
GET IT! They are NOT JEWS! Because their synagogue belongs to Satan! Judaism is NOT of the TRUE Jews. ALL of the houses of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, Simeon, are JEWS! And here is why! They are of the territory of JUDAH! They all are of the SOUTHERN KINGDOM! So in essence they are all JEWS! The word Jew is derived from a shortened form of Jew-dah, or Jew-rusalem, or Jew-dea. It was shortened slang for all of these words. All of the inhabitants of Jerusalem were called JEWS or JEWRY:
Jeremiah 11:1... The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2... Hear ye the words of this covenant, and speak unto the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem;
THERE'S your PROOF straight from the scriptures! The word of the LORD said to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to ALL the men of JUDAH, the territory! Here you have the territory AND the people of the capitol clustered into ONE POEPLE! They were ALL Jews simply because they lived in and around the same area! Even though only the 4 tribes were really TRUE JEWS or the people of the covenant of God.
Men from the east came looking for the "King of the JEWS". Yet, not all that lived in the territory of Judah were TRUE JEWS, or of the 4 tribes mentioned. This is why it is said, "Not all who call themselves Jews are Jews"! There was NO TERRITORY called JUDAH when the promises were given to Jacob! Why? Because they were not THERE YET! They had NOT inherited their territorial land rights, thus, they could not be called JEWS yet! It was too early in the old testament! See the map of Canaan as divided among the 12 tribes dated 1200-1020 BC. All these tribes were part of the SOUTHERN KINGDOM with the capitol being Jerusalem.
Jesus was a Jew by way of the area that he lived, not for what he believed! That is why they put of the cross "King of the Jews".
With Christian love,
Thanks for your comment, Mike...
But you do not know the bible....
Rev.2:9 and 3:9 says there are people who "call themselves Jews" but they really aren't Jews. Read what Jesus Christ, Himself tells us:
...."I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, AND ARE NOT, BUT ARE OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN."...Rev.2:9
If you are arguing with this statement, take that argument to God in prayer, and don't criticize me for saying something that God, Himself, said in defining an EVIL PEOPLE.
I know of NO OTHER PEOPLE in this world who actually call themselves "Jews". Guess who they are? They aren't the Russians, or the Turks, or the Portuguese. THEY ARE THE JEWS! So, those verses apply to Jews...and the rest you can figure out for yourself...
Nowhere do I say that I hate the word "Jew", or the "Jews" themselves. I hate nobody. But some Christians today actually WORSHIP the Jews and the Nation of Israel ABOVE THEIR WORSHIP OF OUR LORD. Nobody except God is worthy of worship. You will fight for the honor of the Jews and fleshy "Israel"...and I will, to my dying day, fight for the truth of the WORD OF GOD.
If the word "JEW" was not even in the original Bible, then who gave the transcribers the right to put it there in the first place? It wasn't in ANY authentic Bible until the 1800s. Do your diligent research. What I say are not THEORIES....they are FACT (TRUTH).
And WHO called Jesus "the king of the Jews" anyway? Was it from a truthful and reliable source? You figure it out?
The "wise men" from the East (Magi) who were ASTROLOGERS...Mt.2:2
Pontius Pilate (Roman Governor) who ordered the crucifixion...Mt.27:11, Mk.15:2
The soldiers who scourged and tortured Him...Mt.27:9
But, if the word "Jew" wasn't even in the Bible to begin with, then this whole question becomes moot anyway.
You may believe the "wise men/astrologers" (which practice is condemned in the bible...Isaiah 47:13), or Pontius Pilate (the Governor of Rome), or the Roman soldiers (who beat Jesus nearly to death before nailing Him to the cross).....but I'm not that ignorant! If those detestable men called Jesus "King of the Jews", then you can believe them, but I'm much wiser than to do it too...
As for Jesus celebrating (practicing Judaism)....he never EVEN ONE DAY did such a thing!! Any "Feast Day" that Jesus observed was from Leviticus 23...and it was a FEAST OF GOD. The Jews NEVER had anything to do with God's institution of those feasts. The "Jewish religion" of JUDAISM co-opted the Feast Days as their own in their APOSTASY....and ADDED TO THEM with Hanukkah (Book of Macabees) and Purim (Book of Esther) as well. These added "feast days" are not among the ones instituted by GOD....see Leviticus 23.
And the "time of Jacob's trouble" has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JEWS because JACOB WAS NEVER A JEW....and never converted to Judaism, either.
And that's absolute truth!! None of it is a "theory"...check it out!! Start by reading and studying your own Bible and NOT listening to Pastors who were taught by MEN in school....see I John 2:27
Your verse in Jeremiah 11 speaks of the "men of Judah" and to the "inhabitants of Jerusalem". There is not ONE mention of "Jew" in that verse. You'll have to do better than that to convince me, or any other thinking person, otherwise.
And, again, I thank you for your comment! Others may have made the same mistakes as you did in your thinking, and this might clear this question up for them as well.
You are not comprehending ANY THING that I am saying! I do NOT attend a building of worship and have NOT been taught by a pastor. I also do not condone the wise men, pontius pilate, or anything ROMAN! That all is not the subject ANYWAY! You are interjecting your own thoughts into everything that I say instead of READING what I type and comprehending what I am SAYING! Revelation 2:9... implies that there are people that call themselves JEWS that are NOT JEWS! But are instead of the synagogue of Satan! YOU are the one that is misinterpreting the scriptures! It is NOT difficult to understand that verse and it makes me wander your abilities to comprehend English!
I am old and just as set in my ways as you, but I pray just as much for understanding as the next! You insinuate an awful lot about others!! This is not Christian in my opinion, but vindictive! You try to come off as nice but give off the attitude of indifference and divisiveness! Not a teacher or BISHOP!
I have laid out for you the scriptures to back up my understanding of such and no longer feel obligated to try and communicate with you about anything! What YOU believe is your business. But do not ever again put ME in a stereotype of your so called wisdom! You DO NOT know it all by any means as I have tried to show you nicely. But you need to be put in your place!
If the tiny Nation of Israel means NOTHING to the world, then why are all of the prophesies in the scriptures falling in place every day in the Middle East, around them? And how do you explain the rising of her in ONE DAY in 1948? How did the Jews defeat such impregnable odds that have been stacked against her in battle? Why did Adolf Hitler try to genocide them? Why does the whole WORLD HATE THEM? I'll tell you WHY! Because they worship the same GOD as WE DO! Yehweh! They just MISSED THE BOAT when Jesus first came!
You are confused about the synagogue of Satan! It is the Kabala and the leadership of the Scribes and Pharisees that led astray the Hebrew tribes that lived in JEW-DEA! God gave the Jews a spanking for their indifference to him and it is all throughout the BIBLE! THEY are the ones that call themselves JEWS and are NOT!
And further more, you are not one of the 144,000! They are MALE! If you were so up on scripture you would know that Gods government is led by him, the Father to Jesus Christ, to the Husband of the family and then to the Wife! THAT IS SCRIPTURAL! Revelation 14:4 SAYS IT ALL!
Read what I post and try NOT twisting it to fit your beliefs about EVERYONE! I do not contort well, as you may now understand!
Back to you, Mike...
And I repeat again, "You do not know the bible"....
Perhaps it might open your eyes to the 144,000 in one I posted a while back:
With Love Arlene,
I know all about the shadows and examples of the "Fleshly Israel, tribes, etc...
And I know about the Christian journey symbolized by what you are saying about the 144,000. What YOU are missing is that the 144,000 are a SPECIFIC number of Male Virgins out of all 12 tribes, 12,000 of each tribe that constitute the ruling kings and priests of Revelation 7 and 14! Again, I understand how the Lord speaks to the LITERAL things and symbolizes the spiritual things.
Revelation 14:4... These are they which were not defiled with women;
This first sentence is telling you that they are MEN not defiled with women by sex! The next sentence tells you WHY!
Revelation 14:4 cont'd.... for they are virgins.
This sentence is telling WHY they are not defiled with women, because they are VIRGINS! That is the LITERAL meaning AND the SPIRITUAL meaning! The literal meaning is obvious and explained and the spiritual meaning is the same! They are not defiled by women OR the definition of women STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE....is
Revelation chapter 17 tells you about a WOMAN sitting on a BEAST and she was called:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH!
A WH..RE! These men are not defiled by FALSE RELIGION and the HARLOT!
These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
They follow Jesus through the 12 tribes of training as YOU described, as ALL CHRISTIANS do! But the big difference is the next sentence in verse 4.
These were redeemed from among MEN, being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb.
THEY are CHOSEN! THIS is talking about SPIRITUAL ISRAEL! The ones that are beheaded in Revelation 20:4 that will live and reign with Christ for a thousand years! AGAIN, here we have a LITERAL and a SPIRITUAL explanation all tied up together in one verse. One has to have EYES to see it though!
More proof can be found back at Revelation 14:3... And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
If you go back to Revelation 4:4 you will see who was around the throne of God....
4... And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Who are they? Matthew 19:28... And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
That is twelve of them and the other twelve are the 12 tribes patriarchs. They make up the 24 elders before the throne of God. Revelation 5:9... And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people and nation;
10... And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
There is a LOT here to take in. First you can see that there is a ruling structure emanating from the throne to the 24 elders. The four beasts are there. The 144,000 come after the 10,000 times 10,000 and thousands of thousands of angels in verse 11 of revelation chapter 5.
Did you notice that the 144,000 were singing as it were a new song the same as the 24 elders that were singing a new song. The 24 elders are representing ALL CHRISTIANITY by the vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints, in verse 8.
Another point that you have missed is that NOT ALL OF THE 144,000 are JEWISH! Just the tribes that represented those that lived in the TERRITORY of JUDAH. There were 48,000 represented by the 4 tribes that lived in and around JEW-RUSALEM and in the territory of JEW-DAH. That leaves 96,000 for the NORTHERN KINGDOM of tribes that were the Lost 10 tribes, that were NOT JEWISH because they did NOT live in the territory of JEW-DAH!
Another literal and spiritual meaning in the same sentence! They are of the literal blood lines of the OLD TESTAMENT and covenant, literally, and spiritually rule on thrones, in the new testament and covenant, for 1000 years with Jesus Christ.
I appreciate your views, as I once had the same ones.
However, I know now that those beliefs are WRONG.
"Virgins" in the Bible have nothing to do with SEX! Virgins have the correct doctrine and are following only the Bible and God through the Holy Spirit.
And, if one thinks about it sensibly, I doubt you can even FIND 144,000 "male virgins" in the world at this time....unless they are UNDER the age of 12. And in this immoral time, that's even pushing it. The Roman Catholic church hasn't done too well with it, has it?
And even if it were 144,000 male "virgins", they would NOT BE NORMAL! Sexuality is a normal part of manhood, and to think that one would have to sacrifice normal sexuality is beyond what God would require of any adult male.
They are not "Jews" because none of the Tribes of Israel were "Jews". Check your historical facts on this. Jacob was not a Jew. And the Tribe of Judah were not Jews (practiced Judaism under the Pharisees and Rabbis)...unless they converted to Judaism after they became apostate.
The "Israel of God"...Galatians 6:15-16...are from whom the 144,000 are picked to be "sealed". And this is otherwise called the "body of Christ". And, we are told in Galatians 3:28..."There is neither Jew nor Greek, NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE; for ye are ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS."
God is "no respecter of persons" (or which gender you are)....everybody is EQUAL in the "body of Christ". Therefore, the 144,000 includes everybody picked to be "sealed by God"....and it's matters not whether they are "male" or "female" as long as they are faithful to Jesus Christ and the Bible....and MATURING as Christians during their walk with God.
Having sex or not having sex has absolutely nothing to do with them....probably lots of them are MARRIED PEOPLE....and very few (if at all) married people remain virgins....or why get married at all?? I'm not too old to remember that one!
For Michael...Perhaps you can understand this one which I just posted....
I learned some time ago that there are those that believe they have the truth and talk a lot of talk about being Saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ YET they run the risk of being CURSED for that very hatred of the Jews. God knows who are the true Jews and a debate of when the word Jew was first used is NOT going to erase that which He said.
Genesis 12:3 tells us, "I will Bless those that bless Thee and Curse those that curse Thee." That is speaking of the legitimate off-spring from Abraham, who are the children of Promise and not of those born by the Concubines.
To never seem to get this sorted out is like committing "Spiritual Suicide"
I commend you for your huge effort to try to enlighten Arlene. I will no longer even discuss this subject with her. It is obvious she isn't searching for the truth but expects you to swallow the big lie that she has swallowed.
For Gerlinda and Michael....
I am ASSUMING that you both know how to READ. But I'm not so sure that you UNDERSTAND what you are reading!!
The "blessing" and "cursing" of Genesis chapter 12 has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH JEWS. Jews didn't even EXIST at that time! Abraham was NOT A Jew...nor was Isaac, nor Jacob.
Genesis 12:2 says, "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shalt be a blessing."
God was speaking to ABRAM, before he became Abraham.
Genesis 12:3 says, "And I will bless them that bless thee, (ABRAM/ABRAHAM)and curse him that curseth thee:(ABRAM/ABRAHAM) and in THEE shall ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED."
The BLESSING WAS FOR ABRAHAM, AND ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH who will eventually come from his PROMISED "SEED"...WHO IS JESUS CHRIST!! This is a blessing that will come to ALL WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST.
The "cursing" was for those who CURSE CHRISTIANS (those in Jesus Christ). Are you so sure by "cursing me" (a Christian) that you, yourselves, might receive that curse from God??? Think about that one!!
There is not ONE JEW within the next ten (10) BOOKS OF THE BIBLE!!
There is no "Jew" mentioned in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, and I Kings....
But WOW!! Somebody put "Jews" in II Kings 16:6:
"At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and DRAVE THE JEWS FROM ELATH: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day."
The FIRST time Jews are mentioned in the Bible, they are being driven out of some land. Do you suppose God "CURSED" the king of Syria for doing that?? That really must have made history!!! But, I don't read anything about it...anywhere!!
And Galatians 3:16 tells EXACTLY who the "Seed" of Abraham is:
"Now to ABRAHAM AND HIS SEED were the promises made. He saith not, And to SEEDS, as of many; (like the "Jews or fleshy descendents of Abraham) BUT AS OF ONE, And to thy SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST."
And how about Romans 9:8:
"That is, They which are the CHILDREN OF THE FLESH,(anyone NOT in Jesus Christ...including the unsaved Jews of today) these are NOT the children of God: but the CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE (Christians) are counted for the seed."
I did not say that!! THE BIBLE SAYS THAT!! Any kid in the 4th grade could read this and understand what it says....why can't you?
And if you two see that you can't get me to believe your FALSE DOCTRINE, then stop posting arguments for everything I say!! Everyone knows you will "curse me for cursing the Jews" (which I really don't), so why do it?? You are just stirring up controversy and bad feelings...and that is not constructive for what Steven is trying to do.
I do not hate the Jews. I just don't believe that promises made to the Christian "church" (body of Christ) should be willingly given to the Jews. That's doing just what Esau did! You're giving your birthright (through Jesus Christ) to the Jews, in exchange for a "blessing" you believe you will get from God. YOU ARE SO WRONG!!
I will no longer respond to Mike's comments!! Nor Gerlinda's....who seems to "jump on the bandwagon" whenever ANYONE disagrees with me. Should your attitude change, or you finally see correct doctrine, then we can talk again. But not until then!!