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While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. John 17:15 (KJV)
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Adding...from another source...
Piece of the link article:
The Gospel is not one of confusion, darkness, or contradiction. No matter how much we try to twist logic with silver-tongued wording, it will never make sense to say that God loves sinners, and that He will also torture them forever. This is common sense stuff. The eternal torment doctrine is rank cynicism to the highest degree. It is not gospel truth, nor is it a revelation of love. Yet, the church is completely sold on it. They are sold on their traditions. According to (1 John 3) love is an action, not a feeling. John says "Let us not say we love each other, let us show it by our actions. It is by our actions we know we are living in the truth."
Now, if a man were to torture another man with fire to death, for hours, would he be loving or hating his enemy by his actions? According to our own laws, he would go to death row or be imprisoned for life. But, the very traits we certainly abhor in ourselves (like torture or mass extermination of human beings) we without question credit to God, because we are historically taught it is the only way to comprehend scripture.
Doesn't loving an enemy mean doing good to them and for them?
Isn't that what the Bible teaches?
Yet, if God has created a fiery torture chamber, and is standing by, allowing people to wander haplessly into it trapping them there for eternity as they beg for mercy, is God hating or loving his enemies by action? The scripture proves that God loves his enemies. Yet, what theologians envision and what they preach does not change reality: God is a redeemer. Does love fail? Does God fail? No.
He does not fail. He is able to accomplish anything He wishes according to His purpose. Through judgment, He will subdue His enemies and draw them to Himself and His love. When all knees bow and all tongues confess Christ to be Lord, He will be their Lord! Christ will make them into servants. They will become his subjects. He is a powerful Lord and the church slanders Him with their false, defeatist creeds from man's depraved imagination.
First let me say that I have been following all your posts and have actually read most of the hundreds of pages of studies you have provided. Most I agree with, but others are going to take a lot of further study.
This article about everyone being saved is one of them. I would like to believe this, but have a couple questions that seem too outstanding to ignore.
What about the people that take the mark of the beast, and what about the people that after the 1000 year reign of Christ still side with Satan and fight against the Lord? Are you saying that these willfully unbelieving people will be saved and be part of the New Heaven and New Earth? To me that does not seem possible, so with all due respect could you explain this to me as you understand it.
God bless you! You are breaking new ground in helping believers see the truth and that is a wonderful thing!
Re: To Patti in answer to her questions:
These verses, among MANY others in the Bible say just what they seem to say. God's WILL will be done!
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4).
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).
God's plan, from before the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD...Eph.1:4...was (and still is) to save ALL men whom He created. Jesus' sacrifice was for the WHOLE WORLD, and not just the few.
In this age (grace) those whom the Father "draws" WILL believe, but MILLIONS of others CANNOT because they haven't been drawn...yet! God, being "just" cannot blame those whom He didn't "draw" yet, can He?
The MISINTERPRETATION of the word "forever", which means "age" and not "through all eternity" is one of the great causes of this FALSE belief. Do a word study of FOREVER as it pertains to the Bible. Google in "forever and what it means in the Bible". You will learn a lot. Also, the word "hell" has been misrepresented by the interpreters as well. Google the word "hell" and you also will learn quite a bit.
Would ANYONE actually believe that the character of God is exactly like Nebuchadnezzar, who threw people into a "fiery furnace" for not worshiping as he said? How about Jeremiah 32:35? God calls burning people in fire an ABOMINATION....would He then turn around and do the SAME THING, Himself? Hardly!!
As for those who take the "mark of the Beast" or otherwise do not receive salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ in this AGE, they will HAVE THEIR PART in the "lake of fire and brimstone" for their PURIFICATION and CLEANSING ("fuller's soap...Malachi 3:2).
Isn't it funny (not really) how "Pastors" always turn to Malachi 3:8 to get you to pay "tithes" (which is FALSE DOCTRINE for the NT)....yet they pass right by the verse that tells us that God needs to "cleanse" us and "purify" us THROUGH FIRE...for His Kingdom.
Those of us who are "saved by grace" have had our "sin debt" paid....BUT, there will still be "payment rendered" for EVERYTHING WE SAY AND DO (and think) in our judgement for WORKS (I Cor.3:15). Very few of us Christians will escape some kind of punishment for what we have done, and believed, while in this earthly body....even though that punishment may be in lack of rewards, like being able to "rule and reign" with Christ. BEING A CHRISTIAN DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY GIVE YOU THAT HONOR...YOU HAVE TO "WORK" FOR IT.
Paul calls this "running a race" for the "prize of the high calling of God"...Philippians 3:14. Ignorant Christians think all they have to do to "win this prize" is to be saved. They are WRONG. After salvation, the WORK is just beginning.....and each will EARN their just reward. And listening to one "Pastor" for an hour a week is being a totally lazy Christian who will probably not earn any rewards. Diligent Bible study, and correct interpretation are the KEY FACTORS in "maturing" as a Christian.
Death, itself, will be destroyed in the lake of fire, ultimately. No death will exist at all when God's plan is completed through the AGES which follow this one. This age is not the first one, and there will certainly be more to follow....but this is not explained in the Bible, but it is implied for those with a discerning eye.
God's Kingdom is a "spiritual" one...when ALL ARE CHANGED....in a moment, in the "twinkling of an eye". I Cor. 15:52 says ALL...it does not say "SOME". I Cor.3:15 says "ANY MAN'S WORK" that is not acceptable to God will be burned. But it also says, "BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED...YET SO AS BY FIRE"....and this is the process of the working of the "lake of fire" to purge out sins and to purify the sinner who has NOT been saved by "grace". Those verses say "ALL" and not just "some".
My own educated theory is that some Christians will "taste" that bit of the lake of fire purging as well (for believing false doctrines)....but that remains to be seen.
It took God "hitting me in the heart" to cast out what I had been taught by so many pastors....that God was hateful, vindictive, unjust, and just like Nebuchadnezzar. How can ANYONE love a "God" who has the destiny of most of mankind as "burning in hell forever" because they once stole a paperclip...or lied? Is that "JUST" punishment?? I think NOT!!! Would I have treated my own children in that way? NEVER!!
Or is God our merciful "FATHER" ("DADDY") who loves "ALL HIS CHILDREN" and will punish them for things they did WRONG...but He would never torture and terrorize them forever!! For some, salvation will happen during this age (aion/aeon), but for others it will wait for the next age (aion/aeon).
Why do so many "Pastors" not teach what the Bible says?
I Corinthians 15:28..." And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put ALL THINGS under him, that God MAY BE ALL IN ALL."
In my understanding of the English language (I got an "A" all through school in this subject), "ALL" means "excluding nobody". And this will be accomplished in this present age, OR in the age to come. Some will have their "PART" in the lake of fire ("many stripes")...see Luke 12:48...and some will receive "fewer stripes" because "just" judgment (which God has) will fit the crime for EVERYONE.
Those who cannot, or will not, believe that eventually ALL will be saved...DO NOT KNOW THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. Are these the people whom Jesus says, "Depart from me, I never knew you"?...see Matthew 7:23. If you know God as a monster who tortures people, then you don't "know Him"....and this is NOT acceptable in His eyes.
Time will tell who is right. Each Christian's place in the Kingdom of God depends upon what they believe in this age. I have chosen my belief...and it's to each his own.
In Christian love for my "brothers and sisters",
Addendum to previous post for Patti:
I have a dear friend who was brought up as a Roman Catholic (and all the rituals, ceremonies, and "sacraments" it involves as a religion). She believes that "purification" and "purging of sins" in the lake of fire is too close to the Roman Catholic "Purgatory" taught by them, and she will not believe in salvation of all because of this.
And since this might be the "block" that holds back belief in what the "lake of fire" is all about, maybe something said by someone else could clarify that it is NOT speaking of the Roman Catholic "purgatory" at all!
This is part of an article I read recently:
(I'm sorry that I only copied this part, and I don't know the author. I had never intended to use it for example...only as a reminder to myself of the joy I had when reading it.)
You may be asking yourself: why is this information just being disclosed? Answer: the eternal Hell Fire ****ation talk has become so loud and damaging to thinking souls, in its inherent unfairness, that He that felt it necessary to remind us of His value, love, and mercy for all men and women, proved by the many scriptures quoted herein, which we have forgotten and cast aside. The true sheep are being scattered by the Hell Fire ****ation talk.
But most important: this is the only generation that is about to undergo the massive thinning of the earth in a series of great troubles, including famine, wars, disasters of nature, etc. If we don't understand that all men will receive the mercy of God in the next life, and the sooner their evil is terminated, the less difficult it will be for them to work their way to salvation; if we don't understand that thoroughly, then even the elect could be overcome with doubts as to the goodness of God. The troubles will be catastrophic and fearful beyond our imagination, and we need to have confidence in the eventual love and mercy to be granted to all men. All is well that ends well, and we need to understand that God has a plan for it to end well for all men.
Now for that special case of children - how much purification is necessary for an infant? Any? No! How much purification is necessary for a five year old? Certainly, is it not logical that purification of children is much simpler than someone who has lived 50 years of mistakes, habits, lusts, and affections?
When talking about judgment, Jesus said in Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name cast out devils? And in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who work iniquity." Obviously these people, who thought they were Christians, called him Lord; and they had enough faith that he was the son of God to perform wonderful works, thinking themselves to be in his name. Where is their fruit resulting from purity?
Can you imagine how betrayed these people will feel. They will likely be angry. They will likely feel resentment and mistrust of Jesus. Their purification will probably take longer than the 'sinners' because of their anger and resentment; and the 'sinners' will finish purification and enter heaven first, and the 'saved' will finish purification and enter heaven last. So the last will be first, and the first will be last.
And if they are teachers or preachers, not perfected and authorized by Christ, and therefore having been teaching in error, their time in Hell will be even longer, for the blood of those they have misled will be on their heads; and blackest darkness is reserved for them. This scripture was already being fulfilled in Christ's time on the earth: the tax collectors and prostitutes were already entering the Kingdom ahead of the eminent Pharisees - those thought to be last were before those thought to be first.
The person who has the least esteem of himself can hear the call to repentance the clearest. The last can hear the call to repentance; the first are deaf in their self-righteousness, (or their imputed righteousness from Christ, which supposedly excuses them from repentance and the cross of Christ).
Do not confuse this with the "purgatory" that the Roman and Greek sects have defined. Everyone who is not purified enters Hell, regardless of religious profession. There is no prayer or contribution that can hasten their exit. George Fox has said, do not pray for the dead; they have had their time when prayer could help them. And sacrifices for the dead are forbidden by scripture.
This author refers to "hell", which IS the "lake of fire" purification. I almost questioned it's statement of "work their way to salvation", but the Bible does imply "work" in salvation as well as "faith" in Philippians 2:12 where it says "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..". Our BELIEFS after we are saved are part of our "working out our salvation". Do we search the Bible DAILY for finding out the truth? Or do we just believe what our "Pastors" tell us is true?
I'm just pointing out that the "lake of fire" is NOT the "Purgatory" preached by the Roman Catholic church. No amount of money paid to a Priest will get you out of what is needed to purify you for God's Kingdom. If I, myself, need purification, then I accept the consequences of my thoughts, beliefs, and actions.
I appreciate what you have written and have read all that you have to say. I hope you will do the same for me. I, too do not believe that all those who do not believe in Jesus will be burned in a lake of fire for all eternity...never have believed that. So, we definitely agree on that. But, I do believe that they will not have eternal life in heaven with God. They will be destroyed, perish, die, disappear, be no more, at the second death.
This makes a great deal more sense and seems to be very well supported by Scripture. Just like during the Flood in Noah's Day, only 8 people lived to re-populate the earth, all the rest perished, were destroyed by the flood waters, they were not tormented by the flood water for eternity!! All those who's names are not written in the Book of Life will die, body and soul.
Seriously consider this, if everyone is going to be saved by having all their impurities burned off in the lake of fire, why not just wait until that happens and live however you want. Why would the God send His only begotten, beloved Son to die a horrible death on the cross to save mankind, if there was another way around it? But, by the same token, your view has become the majority view....I could not find any studies that spoke of hell being eternal, and many, many studies saying exactly what you did. This was interesting in and of itself.
Please forgive me if I am still not convinced of the conclusions you have come to. Consider that study and let me know what you think. If you could do that gently that would be greatly appreciated, no need to go off in unrelated directions, or to make me feel I am not rightly dividing the Word. Kindness, no matter what it is in regards to, is the best way to convince and compel, or in the very least, not to alienate.
Here is the study:
Is Hell Eternal?
By Henry Bechthold
Is hell eternal? There are two answers to this question. The first answer, in regards to the duration of the hell fire, is yes; it will burn forever, according to several New Testament scriptures. And, it does need to burn forever to justly and eternally punish the devil and his evil angels, who, according to the Bible, are eternal beings. However, the second answer, in regards to how long sinners will suffer in the hell fire, is no. The overwhelming weight of biblical evidence contradicts the widely accepted teaching that God will torment lost sinners in the fires of hell throughout the trillions of years of eternity.
Throughout the Bible the final fate of the wicked is stated to be death, not a miserable, eternal life of pain and agony. The Bible declares that the soul who sins shall die, not that he will be tortured forever (Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20). It also states that the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment (Romans 6:23). The prophet Malachi declares that the day is coming when the wicked will be burned like stubble, and they will be reduced to ashes under our feet (Malachi 4:1-3). If they have become ashes that returned to the earth under the feet of the redeemed who will occupy the "new earth", how can they still be burning? The book of Psalms tells us that the wicked will be destroyed, perish and "have no future", and that they "will be no more" (Psalm 145:20; Psalm 37:37,38; Psalm 37:10; Psalm 37:20).
It is significant that the Bible clearly states that "only God" possesses immortality (1st Timothy 6:16). Man does not possess immortality apart from the "new birth" experience in Christ. Without that new birth experience, there is no immortality for man. Lost people, of course, have not become born again in Christ; consequently, they have no immortal soul to "live forever" in hell. These are not my words, but rather are precisely what the Bible teaches. As I previously stated, the Bible declares that "only God" has immortality (1st Timothy 6:16). Because man does not have it on his own, Romans 2:7 states that he must seek for it (in Christ, of course). The Apostle Paul plainly states that immortality for human beings is only "brought to light" (made available) through the gospel of Christ (2nd Timothy 1:10). In other words, only those who place their faith in Jesus Christ have access to immortality. This undeniable truth is demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt in 1st John 5:11-12, where it states that God has given us eternal life "in His Son"; furthermore, this passage goes on to state that he who has the Son has eternal life, but he who does "not" have the Son of God does "not have eternal life" (Case closed!). Therefore, according to the Bible, it is impossible for people without Christ to possess immortality and live forever in hell!
This fact, that "fallen mankind" does not possess immortality apart from Christ, becomes obvious immediately after man's fall, as recorded in Genesis chapter three. God found it necessary to ban Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, and also to station angels to keep them from accessing the "tree of life". The Bible clearly states that God did this so that they could not eat from the tree of life and live forever (Genesis 3:22-24). Therefore, the now sinful couple obviously had become "mortal beings" as a consequence of their sin, and God did not want sinful beings to become immortalized by eating from this supernatural tree of life. It is clear from this text, as well as many others that could be cited, that there was "no immortal nature" inherent within human beings after they had fallen into sin. And, according to the Bible, it is also apparent that the only means to receive immortality was by eating from the tree of life or by faith in Christ. Of course, the Bible records that God immediately cut off access to the supernatural tree, which left only "one means" to receive immortality, which is faith in Christ. The Bible plainly teaches that, without faith in Christ, there is nothing immortal within mankind. Eternal life is only for those who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. However, according to the "eternal torment" doctrine taught by most preachers and theologians, the wicked also have eternal life. Their eternal life is a terrible and painful one, but it is still an eternal life. This is a blatant contradiction of Scripture!
Another important point to be considered is that the Bible teaches that we will be rewarded "according to our works", both for those whose deeds have been good, and for those who have done evil (Matthew 16:27; Revelation 22:12; 2nd Corinthians 5:10). In fact, the Bible specifically states that God will reveal His wrath towards the wicked on the day of judgment, by rendering to each one "according to his deeds" (Romans 2:5-6). If God is going to render to those who have done evil, according to their deeds, would He punish them for lives of seventy years of disobedience, with pain and torment for trillions of years without end? That would not be punishment based upon people's works, but would be billion-fold and trillion-fold punishment.
It is also obvious that, if we are rewarded or punished "according to our works", then the rewards and punishments must necessarily vary based upon those works. Sadistic, murderous tyrants like Hitler and Stalin, who were responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people, cannot receive the same sentence of torment in hell throughout the trillions of years of eternity, as a sixteen year old boy or girl who died before placing their faith in Jesus, but who had never done anything to harm another human being.
In Luke 12:42-49, Jesus Himself illustrates this principle. He clearly states that unfaithful servants are punished differently according to their personal measure of guilt. Some will be beaten with "few stripes", whereas others will receive "many stripes". After stating this, Jesus immediately refers to the "fire" He will send on the earth. Is this a coincidence? Probably not, because it is in that fire where the wicked will receive their punishment, or "stripes", so to speak; some will receive a few and others will receive many. However, it is interesting to note that "none" of them will be "beaten forever". This agrees with what David says in Psalm 28:4, where he tells God to measure out punishment in "proportion to their wickedness".
There are literally dozens of other scriptures that I could share in this article that clearly refute the widespread teaching that God torments lost sinners in the hell fire throughout the endless ages of eternity. However, I will share just three more passages at this time. All of these texts use the Greek word, "apollumi", to refer to the final fate of the wicked. This is significant because Scripture always uses this Greek word to mean destruction, perish, kill, die or fully destroy. The only exception to this rule is in a few instances when apollumi is translated as lose or lost, describing things that are lost and can be found, such as sheep, coins and people. However, this word is "never" used to depict eternal torment or suffering.
In Luke 17:27-30 Jesus said that the wicked in the days of Noah and Lot were destroyed (apollumi). Of course, we know that in both instances the wicked were not inflicted with painful suffering forever, but were killed. It is also significant that Jesus said that it will be the same scenario when He returns. In other words, once again, the wicked will be destroyed or killed (apollumi); they will not be subjected to eternal torture, even as the wicked in Noah's flood did not continue to drown forever.
Likewise, in 2nd Peter 3:5-9, we're told once again that the floodwaters in the days of Noah caused the wicked to perish (apollumi). As previously stated, did the floodwaters torture the wicked forever? No! They killed the wicked by drowning them. Then Peter goes on to compare that destruction of the wicked with the destruction that will occur in the hell fire. He uses the same Greek word, "apollumi", in verse nine for those who will perish in the hell fire, as he did for those who perished in the flood in verse six. In other words, the wicked destroyed in the hell fire will experience the same fate as the wicked did in the flood, which was death, "not eternal torment".
Finally, Jesus eliminates all doubt in Matthew 10:28. After telling us not to fear men, who can only kill the body, He tells us instead to fear God, who will destroy (apollumi) "both soul and body" in hell! Remember, "apollumi" means to perish, be destroyed, kill or caused to die. It is "never" used to describe eternal torment! Therefore, Jesus is unequivocally stating that "both body and soul" will be destroyed, killed or caused to die in hell, not suffer throughout endless ages.
For a thorough discussion of hell, which presents all of the scriptures on both sides of this issue, and which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that God does not torment lost sinners throughout eternity, read Hell. And, be sure to check out other interesting and provocative articles at http://godormen.com.
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Henry_Bechthold
Nobody has all the answers. Every day I learn new things. It's even hard for me to believe that a few short years back I was a "died in the wool" Dispensationalist!! I believed in EVERYTHING about the 70th week of Daniel, and the whole 7-year Tribulation stuff!!
And now, that's about as far from my thinking as Texas is from Massachusetts!
I know for ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY...without a doubt...that people "burning in hell forever" is a TOTAL LIE!! I'm a very hard "egg to crack" with anything I haven't already searched out. But I "fell off the wall" when God pushed me off on this one.
I've read many theories, including the ones you present. I can't prove anything YET from Scripture on what I believe for sure, but I'm working on it. I seldom fail to do what I set out to do.
My belief, according to the God of the Bible whom I absolutely love and adore with all my heart....is that all of creation is going to be restored when God has completed His whole plan. NOBODY WILL BE LOST. Everybody that God brought into existence has been part of His plan. Nobody who ever existed has not played some part in His plan.
I look at it this way and from reading Isaiah chapter 45....I KNOW WHO GOD IS! One cannot read this chapter and not come away from it totally changed. GOD DOES EVERYTHING! Nobody, or nothing else counts in the scheme of things. He created EVERYTHING and EVERYONE FOR HIS PURPOSE.
And, if we are ALL in His plan, then what would be His reason for the DESTRUCTION, or ANNIHILATION of ANYONE?? God did not make anything with the purpose of destruction.
Isaiah 45:17-18...But Israel (ALL THOSE WHO FOLLOW GOD....and eventually EVERYONE WILL..."every knee shall bow, etc")shall be saved in the Lord with an EVERLASTING SALVATION: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. (vs.18) For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it NOT IN VAIN, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and there is none else."
That leaves me almost breathless every time I read it!
But, the MOST awesome description of God, who He is, and what He does is in Isaiah 45:5-7.."I am the Lord, and THERE IS NONE ELSE, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou HAS NOT KNOWN ME: (vs.6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is NONE BESIDE ME. I am the Lord, and THERE IS NONE ELSE. (vs.7) I form the LIGHT, and create DARKNESS: I make PEACE, and create EVIL: I the Lord DO ALL THESE THINGS."
Finally, in Isaiah 45:12..."I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and ALL THEIR HOSTS HAVE I COMMANDED."
If there is NOBODY except God planning, and doing EVERYTHING....then what on earth would be the purpose of destruction of ANYONE after His plan is complete. God created the "bad guys" to serve His purpose. Well, if they DID WHAT GOD CREATED THEM TO DO, they why on earth would He destroy them for DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE CREATED FOR??
God even created the Devil to do exactly what he is doing....being an "adversary" so that we can CHOOSE to follow God...but not all will make that choice in this age....but they will eventually.
I have said what I have said because I believe it with all my heart. There is ONLY GOODNESS, MERCY AND LOVE in God. And that love, mercy, and goodness will be seen when everything is completed...and ALL will dwell in peace and harmony with God in the New Heavens and New Earth.
Everything and everyone will have served it's purpose for the good of ALL...
I can only continue to follow where God leads me...and that's what I'm doing.....I believe Romans 8:28...and the rest of the Bible.
A fine exchange of Christian LOVE! God bless you both,
Re: Mike Plunkett...
Thanks for the kind words, Mike...and thanks to Patti for putting forth great comments about which to communicate my own thoughts.
But, most of my thanks go to Steven King for having a website that allows us to do just this kind of thing.
Many times in the past, on another website, I have tried to add communication to some important subjects...to cause dialog such as this is. Bnt the webmaster failed to post these things. This was apparently because they weren't the prevailing opinion of the webmaster controlling the posts.
Then,all my postings were altogether censored (prohibited)....
Yes, I am controversial, but I speak what I learn. And I LOVE dialog such as this. True Christian love is putting forth ALL views. Then we throw out what is bad...and keep the best of both.
In Christian love,
Amen to that Arlene!
It is so refreshing to be able to post our true feelings and especially our studies of the Holy Word and how the Holy Spirit is prompting us to learn and understand Biblical truth. I know just what you mean in regards to doing studies and trying to share them and they never get posted because of a difference of opinion with either the web master, or people on the site that would not like it. It is so refreshing to be here and have someone like Steven who respects our diligent searches into the truth, and open discussions.
Some of the truths are coming to light on this forum are MIND BLOWING AND HEART OPENING!! I am so thrilled by how puzzle pieces are beginning to just fly into place, and they are all so biblically supported!! Just watching Steve Wohlberg's videos and how they fit perfectly with the whole rest of the Bible is just an awesome revelation!! I definitely know that the Holy Spirit led me to this site, and there are no words for how grateful I am!!
Thanks Arlene for revealing so many interesting truths and being willing to look at what others may have to add, as well. And thanks Mike P. for your kind words...I have missed you and I am so glad I have found where you are!
Blessings to all of you!!