FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES



What frustrates me a LOT is people who DON'T STUDY to understand their Bibles, ignoring II Timothy 2:15 (KJV), or they read only what they WANT to read to fit the doctrines they believe. And then they ceaselessly spout on, and on, to others (who don't know any better) about all of us having to be "perfect" in action and thought in order to escape the torments of "burning in hell forever." (But not themselves, of course, because they, themselves, can live the "perfect" life required.) How VILE, and unquestionably CRUEL are thoughts like these.

THIS KEEPS CHRISTIANS IN CONSTANT FEAR! And not only for themselves, but also for those ones whom they love...past, present, and future. They PANIC, because in their hearts they truly fear what God is going to do to them.

That is NOT believing, nor DOING, what Jesus, Himself, told us to do in Matthew 22:37-40:

"JESUS SAID UNTO HIM, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Vs.38) THIS IS THE FIRST AND GREAT COMMANDMENT. (Vs.39) And the second is like unto it, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Vs.40) ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.'"

I believe, and understand this to be among THE MOST IMPORTANT verses in the entire Bible. Yet, this one is the MOST disobeyed by most who call themselves "Christians".

You are NOT loving God with all your heart when you believe that He will throw you into a "fiery hell" for all eternity because you disobey him even ONCE....or because you don't worship Him in a certain manner. THAT'S WHAT NEBUCHADNEZZAR DID! And God is NOTHING LIKE NEBUCHADNEZZAR.

And you are NOT loving "your neighbor" (others around you) when you TURN THEM FROM GOD by making Him out to be a "tyrant" in their eyes by telling them this LIE.

So, does Bill Wiese's book tell the truth? You decide:


http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html



PIECE OF THE ARTICLE IN THE LINK:


Here's what Jesus said to do if one finds himself looking at a woman to lust after her:

"...if your right eye offend you [entices you to sin] pluck it out ... if your right hand offend you cut it off..."

What? "Pluck it out ... cut it off?"

And lying two-faced hypocritical theologians tell us that the Bible must be taken "literally?" That both hell and hell fire are "literal?" That we are to pluck out our eyes and cut off our hands and feet, literally? Are they crazy?

If this teaching on hell by Jesus Christ is to be taken literally, how come you don't see millions and millions of Christians around the world having NO EYES, AND NO FEET, AND NO HANDS? Is there even one Christian in a billion that takes these Scriptures literally when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is? No, their failure to "literally" follow Jesus' command belies their assertion that virtually all of the Bible and the teachings of Jesus are "literal."

But what about the "worms that don't die," and the "fire never quenched?" Simple: Jesus never used the words "hell fire."

Two things we should never find in a Bible: [1] The old Anglo Saxon word "hell," and [2] any word denoting "endless time," as in "for ever AND ever," "everlasting," or "eternal." There is no such equivalent in any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Holy Scriptures.

Furthermore, if "for ever" means an eternity, what pray tell does "for ever AND EVER" mean? Multiple eternities? How many eternities are there?

The first place that "hell fire" appears in the Greek New Testament is in Matt. 5:22. Virtually all Bibles with a center reference will refer you to the marginal note on "hell" where it says, "Greek: Gehenna." And Gehenna is Greek for the Hebrew word "Hinnom" or "Valley of Hinnom," which is found outside the city walls of Jerusalem on the south side.

You can, if you wish, take a stroll through hell in Jerusalem - it is now part of a city park. In the time of Christ's ministry this valley was the Jerusalem city garbage dump, and for centuries, as long as garbage was thrown into it, the fires kept burning and the worms which ate the garbage didn't die out - they kept reproducing, year after year after year.

The only way ... the ONLY WAY, that any Christian can claim that hell, hell fire, immortal worms, never-ending fire, eternal torture, etc., can be literal is if we take everything literally that Jesus said regarding hell (Gehenna fire). You cannot separate what Jesus says MUST be done to avoid having, "...your whole body cast into hell [Gehenna], from what Christians say hell is. In other words, you cannot avoid a LITERAL HELL by performing a FIGURATIVE action.

Jesus did not say: "If your right literal eye literally offends you, FIGURATIVELY pluck your literal eye out..." But that's the kind of insane theological poppycock that is peddled from the pulpits.

*************************

If your "church"...or your bible doctrine...teaches this lie from Satan, then you should REPENT (rethink) your "church" AND/OR your doctrine.....in fact, "going to church" is the BEST WAY to learn false doctrine.

I cherish the wonderful comments that have been made to me about revealing the false doctrine of TITHING ....and this is from the same truthful source as that one was.

There is a very truthful saying that if a lie is told loudly enough, for long enough, it will be unquestionably be believed by the masses. And this is known as "ignorance".

Check out ALL FACTS before you come to your conclusions on ANY matter.

Arlene

Please don't ignore what I asked you to do
You are relying on people who have reasoned truth out of scripture
They have NO personal experience
Do not accept their lies and devious reasoning

There is a literal hell, I have been there
It is exactly as Jesus describes it
It is not made up by man

If there is a heaven, there is a hell
There is night and there is day
light and darkness
truth and consequences
Can't have one and not the other

RE: Doctrine of eternal hell....fact or fiction


When I read ANYTHING, I also look up and read the references given within the text. Truthfully, I trust NOBODY until they have proven their trustworthiness.

So, I looked up the referred "Whence Eternity" by Alexander Thomson in hopes, if it was not very expensive, I could read it. And a pleasant surprise awaited me....IT WAS FREE AND AVAILABLE TO ALL! I might have known this, as a true Christian and lover of the Bible does not charge money for information which is vital to the rest of the "body of Christ".

So, I include this information with this posting as well:


http://thetencommandmentsministry.us/ministry/free_bible/whence_eternity


Piece of the information within the link:

[I have "chopped it up" by putting in spaces for more readability]


There have always been some among the sects who have held harsh views regarding the doom of the sinner. The Pharisees and the Essenes are said to have believed in conscious future punishment. The Essenes believed in unintermittent (adialeipton) and "deathless" punishment.

It is natural for those in whose hearts the love of God has not been dynamically shed abroad to look upon death as the end of all for mankind. The truth of the eons became lost very quickly after the time of the apostle Paul. No one after him appears to say a word about it.

Even Origen believed that this present world or eon was the conclusion of many eons. He inferred that there are still many eons to come, not only two. On the other hand, there arose the Gnostic sects, one of which was that of the Valentinians, named after Valentine, a native of Egypt. They flourished in the second century. According to them, the original source of all existence was the abyss, out of which, when life was developed, sprang the eons, male and female, through whom God revealed Himself. These eons, along with God Himself, together made up the fullness or ploroma.

Matter they looked upon as evil, and the harmony of the ploroma had been upset by God's having come into contact with matter. In order to restore harmony, there was a new emanation of two eons, Christ and the Holy Spirit. At the conclusion of the world, Christ would introduce His Bride along with all the spiritual ones into the Fullness, and all matter, by which is evidently meant all evil, would return to its original nothingness.

Another sect taught that seven eons proceeded forth out from God. Eusebius says that Tatian also invented "some invisible eons like the Valentinians," but Tatian may have preserved some relics of primitive truth. Even in this darkness one can perceive glimmerings of the truth. God made the eons through His Son (Heb.1:2). God planned out the eons, and is now utilizing them as His scaffolding. The eons seem to synchronize with the presence of evil, when it requires to be coped with.

************

What fascinates me a lot is that someone, a while back had told me they believed in the "ploroma", but they could not define what it was (at least, to my satisfaction.) I had forgotten about this until now. Somehow, in some way, God will always give you answers for any questions you may have...if you have "eyes" to see them.

Arlene

RE: Frank....who requests that I do not "ignore him".


The last person who (with authority) requested that I not ignore him was my father, and that was probably around 60 years ago when I was nearing my rebellious teens! And, since then, there have been one or two teachers, or a husband, or someone else who wanted me to listen to them in certain things when I was CERTAIN they were WRONG.

This time, I guess is no different. But then, you do have a right to your own opinion....even if it goes against Bible truths.

THERE IS NO COMMUNICATION ALLOWED BETWEEN THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. THERE IS NO PASSAGE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL WORLD AND THE NATURAL WORLD EXCEPT DEATH....and it's a ONE-WAY PASSAGE ONLY. And any experience that one may have as such is the result of DEMONIC, LYING, SPIRITS.


Deuteronomy 18:10-12 ESV

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who INQUIRES OF THE DEAD, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.


And, according to this scripture...and according to Jeremiah 32:35...God considers it an ABOMINATION to burn people in fire.

But, YOU SAY that God tells us one thing and then does the complete opposite?? My dear Frank....you do not know God!

So, you say that you have "been to hell" (you have been DEAD, TERMINATED, CEASED LIVING, BREATHED YOUR LAST BREATH, etc) and you came back to life again??? Only ONE MAN IN HISTORY....our Lord Jesus Christ, has done this. AND HE WAS/IS GOD!

THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DO. It can be "faked", however! Or it can be LIED ABOUT as well. If a human body does not oxygenate for 4 minutes, he suffers death of BRAIN CELLS....permanently!!

I have seen people "seemingly dead" for some length of time...even brought to the morgue (in a hospital), and they have returned to life after a period of time. However, this "life" was discovered when an autopsy began and the person experienced PAIN....it woke them up from what seemed to be "death" (almost undetectable vital signs), but she wasn't actually dead! Nobody listened closely enough to detect life that was actually still there. IT CAN HAPPEN THAT WAY! AND machines can MALFUNCTION.

But NOBODY ever dies (becomes "brain dead") and returns to life intact. And then, upon returning to life, tells us all about their experiences in "hell"!!

You are listening to too many men who get their doctrines in SCHOOL and not from the Bible.

In Christian love....but ALWAYS in the TRUTH as well,

Arlene

seems to me you want to believe anything but the literal bible
stop reading stuff that disagrees with what scripture plainly states

All you need is your bible
If you are willing to come to God with an open heart he will reveal Himself to you
Then you will realize that everything he says is true
Then you will not need anyone ELSE to teach you what scripture says or means
In the presence of God you will realize that there is nothing He can not do
You will understand that He literaly can create the world in 6 days
You will understand that all the stories that you thought were alagorical are really true

And most of all he fogives those who are willing to believe and repent
It's either humble yourself and receive heaven
Or refuse to repent and receive hell
There is no middle ground

if you do not believe the bible, why are you here?

Re: Frank's request of me...

It's not anyone's place to tell me what to read or NOT what to read. But, I do appreciate your concern.

The words that you say are the SAME that I have heard from every "Pastor" in my history of going to a church building....every "Sunday" and Wednesday nights. I do believe they can't graduate from Theological College without having MEMORIZED that same speech.

But, it wasn't until I stopped that nasty habit of going to church....which, by the way, is "Mystery, Babylon" in Rev. 17 & 18)...that I finally began to learn truthful things from God, alone. See I John 2:27, if you can find the time.

And I suppose you think it's appropriate to "tithe" as well! But then, I'm assuming you are old enough to make your own decisions as am I. Do what you want, but I'll follow what the Bible says.

Thanks again for your concern....

Arlene

God really did create the world
He really knows what he is doing
The same God that created the world also watches over his word
His word is not contaminated by human reasoning
The heart that is willing to say I really don't know, God will enlighten
Then you will understand what you could not before with your human thinking
You are using human thinking to try to understand God on your own terms
Let go of your terms and God will enlighten you

Re: Frank's comment to me.....



You asked me this question: "If you don't believe the bible, why are you here?"

I don't like calling anyone an "idiot", but it seems appropriate here. You are just purposefully being petulant because you can't come to grips with someone believing other than you do.

DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I POSTED???

I quoted this from the BIBLE from DEUTERONOMY. WOULD I HAVE POSTED IT IF I DID NOT BELIEVE IT??

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 ESV

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who INQUIRES OF THE DEAD, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

So, I guess, in your limited use of your mental faculties, you think that BECAUSE I POSTED A QUOTE FROM A BIBLE PASSAGE, that the message concluded from this is that I DON'T BELIEVE THE BIBLE??? Unbelievable!

And, what am I doing here? Maybe some day you will find out....but it may take a while, in my opinion. But speaking as a mature adult, this is a question I haven't heard since high school. Immaturity is seen by one's verbal assaults....

Arlene

PS You must be friends with a man named Bruce....

full of bitterness
this is suppose to be a Christian web site
you don't seem to have much self control
Where is Jesus?

RE: Frank...."bitterness"


Who me?? I am the most joyful person I know!

No, I am not like those "silent" women in churches who obey their "men" coverings and say nothing. I really get a "hoot" out of that one!! If you want to take the Bible so literally, then please do so!

"Pluck out" your eyes if you get normal male feelings when looking at a beautiful woman. Or "cut off" your hands if you do something wrong with them, according to the Bible.

Matthew 5:29..." And if thy right eye offend thee, PLUCK IT OUT, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (vs.30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee....etc."

Well, Frank....If you BELIEVE IT LITERALLY....DO IT!! And what if you are LEFT-HANDED...do you cut off the left hand or the right hand? If you kick someone in the derriere (polite word), do you CUT OFF YOUR FOOT because it did something wrong?

If you LITERALLY have to pluck out your eye if you see something that stirs feelings you shouldn't be having, THEN, you can say that someone will go to a LITERAL "hell". If ONE is literal, then the OTHER ONE must be literal.

You figure it out...I already have. And it is the most joyful news I ever learned!!

Where is Jesus? The Bible says He is "sitting at the Father's right hand"...Colossians 3:1...(that's LITERALLY what the Bible says. However, Jesus told us that the "Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU"...Luke 17:21. That's LITERALLY what it says. However, I don't think it would LITERALLY FIT. So, Jesus Christ is "spirtually" within me, around me, through me, around the world, through the universe....EVERYWHERE!

As for a Christian website, there is no better one than this. As you can see, Steven allows ALL opinions and thoughts so that ALL can be heard so that everyone can make conclusions for themselves. That's the MOST Christian thing a person can do. It's what THE CHURCH or "body of Christ" should be doing as ordered by God....we are "assembling together". There is nowhere in the Bible a mandate to go to a building with pews, rules, regulations, Pastors, doctrines, or denominations.

And some "Christian" websites won't post anything they don't like, or anything that doesn't agree with the webmaster's personal opinions. Steven is a wonderful, God-fearing, God-loving, Christian who obeys the Bible mandates for "fellowship" and not "MAN'S" opinions of it.

Show me chapter and verse where it says ANYONE should "go to church"...

Still in Christian love....I harbor no bitterness at all. I enjoy discussion of subjects, even with showing of emotion. That's how human beings act. We aren't made from a "cookie cutter" just because we are saved.

Arlene

there needs to be a gate keeper to keep deception out

When Jesus says to pull out you eye this is what he is saying
Hell is so horrible that if you experienced it you would rather pull out your eye then go there
ask someone who has went there and he will tell you that it is exactly true

Without Jesus word in you, you don't have Jesus
You can not take out what you don't like and claim to believe what he says
your switching what God says for what some one who does not like what he says
we call this watering down the gospel
You know, like those in Laodicia

Frank,
You are now witnessing what many of us have encountered by having discussions with Arlene. She has continually posted strange doctrines that are not biblical, while saying that everything she believes comes straight from scripture. Obviously, that's not the case, because she puts links in her posts to other websites with unbiblical doctrines. I believe you Frank, that you saw hell, and I believe that many others have seen hell too. Keep contending for the faith brother!

Kevin

Here is a good explanation of where this thinking comes from
It is called "Gnosticism"



http://www.moriel.org/Sermons/Online/Future_History_of_the_Church/future_history_of_the_church_c.html


All of this Gnosticism and other errors are based in eliticism, or simply put, spiritual pride. Be very careful about this. I got a letter a while back from Roger Foster who did not like the fact that I challenged him on his annihilationism. He claims there is no eternal hell so I showed him that the Greek word used in regards to hell for “forever and ever” is the same term used to describe God's glory, the high priesthood of Jesus, and our salvation. Hence, if the torment of hell is not truly eternal, then neither is God's glory, Jesus' high priesthood, or our salvation. As soon as you begin telling unsaved people that if they don't repent and come to Jesus when they die they'll cease to exist, they will say, “So what? That's what we believe anyway”. Unfortunately, that is the theology in back of the March for Jesus. That is what Graham Kendrick and Roger Forster believe; people don't realize this. I like the idea of Christians standing together proclaiming Jesus and preaching the Gospel, but in Dominion theology proclamation into the heavenlies replaces evangelism. Graham Kendrick is a very talented musician and hymn writer; probably the best since Charles Wesley, many people would say. However, all of his songs contain these Dominionist ideas – "We proclaim, we announce, we are triumphant," etc. The problem is this: When you deal with Gnosticism its adherents will always use the same terms we use, but they will mean different things by them.

Hi again, Frank....

Isn't it a great feeling to hear or read something, then question it; and then you get to do the research! And when you come to a conclusion, you can share it with others!

I love doing that too!

And have a wonderful evening.....


Arlene

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Note: Before commenting on any posts please make sure you either watch or read each post in it’s entirety. Before, making a comment, if you don’t have the time to watch or read fully please restrain from commenting. When you do this it will help to reduce confusion.


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Hi Frank, welcome to the site, we all agree to disagree, but in love and edifying, not with division and dissention, if you cant back it up with scripture, you wont gain any ground.

You can learn much from elders who have revelation and experience in the word.


Romans 3:4

King James Version (KJV)


4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

1 Timothy 1:4
KJV

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.



1 Thessalonians 5

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.


Lets all work together scripturally and with love and respect for everyone.

AGAPE, BOB





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Re: Bob....

If I haven't said so before, I'm saying it now: You are totally great! What a wonderful nature and understanding man you are! I would love to be more like you, and I'm trying (Steven is helping me)....but that's what we are....always growing, learning, and and changing what isn't quite right...yet!

And, at my age, I should be 90 ft. tall, and have a brain like Einstein instead of 5'5" and relatively smart. But I never got around to Emily Post (manners and etiquette), as I was always too busy helping sick people get well.

But then, as my class motto said (carved into that stone, way back when), "Please be patient; God isn't finished with me, yet."

Thanks for affirming there are some men in this world who are treasures, still.

Arlene

Hi Arlene, thank you as well for your wonderful posts, I have and will continue to learn and reap great revelation and knowledge from your years and the WISDOM behind your words, no one has it all figured out, but if we work together, we will get there.
Looking forward to more great posts Arlene.

Agape, Bob

are you kidding me
back up the reality of hell with scripture
what bible are you reading?
obviously no gate keeper here

RE: Franks not-very-nice comment....


If you would actually READ something that is posted BEFORE you complain that it's "NOT BIBLICAL", then maybe you might learn something. The guidelines of this website include....READING ALL THE MATERIAL POSTED (which you DID NOT), and THEN, if you have a problem with it, BE SPECIFIC, INCLUDING BIBLE VERSES THAT BACK UP WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

But DO NOT complain or accuse ANYONE of not being a "Christian" just because you don't agree with something they may post, or say to you. And try to be CONSTRUCTIVE AND KIND in your remarks. Nasty comments only cause angry feelings. Steven puts up with a LOT...but he will put the hammer down if we don't ACT like adults, who are supposed to be Bible believers. We should NOT play a children's game of "I know more than you know...ha, ha, ha!! We should be WAY past that....

Nobody here knows everything, and most of us here need to learn a LOT! Comments are great when they are constructive. But nobody learns ANYTHING when they are too busy criticizing something, or someone, when they haven't even read the material COMPLETELY. Take notes...then make comments on your notes, using scripture to back up what you are saying.

The MAIN REASON most Christians don't know their "derriere" from their elbow joint is that they have been indoctrinated by DENOMINATIONS for most of their Christian lives. God ABHORS denominations...ALL OF THEM!! They are ALL WRONG...because they are ALL split off from the "ONE BODY of CHRIST". And God HATES "Nicolaitans"...(Rev.2:6)....those are people who listen to pastors in churches instead of learning from their own Bibles. That word means "POWER OVER THE LAITY"....and God wants us to have nothing to do with it!!

I KNOW YOU DIDN'T EVEN READ THE MATERIAL BECAUSE IT'S LOADEDWITH BIBLE VERSES IN EXPLANATION, BACKING UP EVERYTHING HE HAS SAID.


Scripture back up for what the Bible actually says in just ONE SMALL PART:...Piece of the article....


JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD

Over the years I have gleaned hundreds of Scriptures that speak of God's plan to save all humanity, whereas Christendom has not one Scripture to back up their evil doctrine of fear and hopelessness in some Christian hellhole of never-ending torture - in fire.

Here are several Scriptures that give us God's Master Plan in just one sentence. It's time we grow up and search the Scriptures for ourselves and stop putting our faith in men. Here are some profound Scriptures which the Church contends will never, ever be accomplished by God:

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:14)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will save "the world"? NO!


"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS; of whom I am chief" [Gk: foremost--paramount, preeminent]" (I Tim. 1:15)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will save all "sinners?" NO!


"For the Son of man is come to seek and to SAVE that which was LOST [that's everyone]" (Luke 19:10)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will save all who are "lost?" NO!


"The next day John sees Jesus coming unto Him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will take away the "sin of the world?" NO!


And He is the propitiation [to atone for, conciliate, look upon with mercy and favor] for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2)! I teach this, but does the Church teach that Jesus will atone for the "sins of the world--the WHOLE world?" NO!


"God our Saviour Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:3-4). I teach this, but does the Church teach that God will have "ALL men to be saved?" NO!


"The Lord is... not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9). I teach this, but does the Church teach that the Lord is not willing that any perish, but that ALL should repent, therefore, none will perish and all will repent? NO!


"For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who IS the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially ['specially' does not mean 'exclusively' or 'only'] of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10). I teach this, but does the Church teach that God is not only the Saviour of those that believe, but ultimately "God is the Saviour of ALL men?" NO!


"...I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE the world" (John 12:47). I teach this, but does the Church teach Jesus will actually accomplish what He came to accomplish - "to SAVE THE WORLD?" NO!


"...we have heard Him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (John 4:42). I teach this, but does the Church teach that the One to Whom they give lip service "is indeed the Christ, THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD?" NO, it does NOT!

How many ... how MANY Scriptures must you read and see in your own Bible before you will believe that God commissioned His Son to be the Saviour of the world and that Jesus WILL SAVE THE WORLD?

These ten Scriptures are not wrongly translated, however, every single Bible verse which uses the word "hell" along with "forever and ever," "everlasting," "evermore," and "eternal," is wrongly translated, and this is relatively easy to study and prove to one's own satisfaction.

Virtually all clergyman in all Christendom teach:

Jesus will NOT "be the Saviour of the world," but rather Saviour of only a few

Jesus will NOT "save [all] sinners," but only a few

Jesus will NOT "save [all] that which was lost," but only a few that are lost

Jesus will NOT "take away the sin of the world," but only of a few

Jesus will NOT "have all men to be saved," but only a few men

Jesus will NOT be that "Lord [which is] "not willing that any should perish," but He WILL be that Lord which will actively participate in eternally torturing those who have perished

Jesus is NOT "the Saviour of all men," but is the Saviour "of those that believe," only

Jesus' Own words "I came NOT to judge the world, but to save the world" will never happen

Jesus is NOT "indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."

And just why is it that the Church will not teach these astonishing declarations of God, that the whole world will be saved - that all mankind will be saved? Is it because they have never read those ten Scriptures or the dozens and dozens like them? No. Well why then? Are you ready for this? The reason is that they don't want the whole world (all mankind) to be saved: they don't approve of God's plan for the salvation of all mankind. They want to be special, and they don't want their enemies to be saved unless they come under the control and authority of the Church.

**************

Plain enough for you? Find scriptures to refute the above, and you will have proved your point.

And try being a little nicer next time. At least that's what Steven tells me when I get a little out of line. Ignorance repeated over and over is like "lighting my fuse". And I usually confront this with a sense of humor as well. We ALL have learning to do...and at this site, it is encouraged. As long as we don't slap each other down at every turn. A LEGITIMATE, CONSTRUCTIVE complaint is a good thing. It corrects errors. But reasons why have to be shown as well...."chapter and verse" examples.

Arlene

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Hmmm! That sounds like FEW will find eternal life, not many!

Kevin

Re: Kevin....

Did you not read Revelation 22:18..."...."If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall ADD unto him the plagues that are written in this book:..."

You have ADDED the word "eternal" before the word "life". Read what you wrote!! That's a perfect example of ADDING SOMETHING TO SCRIPTURE that is not specifically stated there.

Not a good thing to do in any case....

And try doing a word study on "destruction" because it does not mean "hell".

As a matter of fact, do a WORD STUDY on the word "hell"...that's a great way to determine what you are talking about. If you don't know that, then you can't POSSIBLY KNOW what you are even implying....

Trying to speak about something of which you know NOTHING is called "IGNORANCE"...at least that's the definition of that word.

I have done studies on all these things for a very long time...so I do have a solid foundation upon which I build my beliefs. Do you? Or do you just regurgitate what you hear from a pulpit?

It really amazes me that so many Christians, who claim to TRULY LOVE God, believe that AFTER Jesus Christ shed His precious blood for the WHOLE WORLD (John 3:16), that our loving, merciful, all-knowing, omnipotent Father in heaven, who created us all from the purest of love in His heart....would send 90% of His creation to "burn in hell forever"....

(and that's billions, and billions, and billions...etc. of people)

THAT'S NOT MERCY...AND THAT'S NOT LOVE!

I just don't buy it! And that's NOT what God is "selling" in the Bible, either. But then, you will understand this one day as well....


Have a wonderful day!!

Arlene

Arlene,
Here is the Strong's concordance definition of Life as it is in the passage of scripture I referred to:


Outline of Biblical Usage:
1) life
a) the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
b) every living soul
2) life
a) of the absolute fulness of life, both essential and ethical, which belongs to God, and through him both to the hypostatic "logos" and to Christ in whom the "logos" put on human nature
b) life real and genuine, a life active and vigorous, devoted to God, blessed, in the portion even in this world of those who put their trust in Christ, but after the resurrection to be consummated by new accessions (among them a more perfect body), and to last for ever.

Here is the concordance definition of the word Destruction in the passage:

Outline of Biblical Usage:
1) destroying, utter destruction
a) of vessels
2) a perishing, ruin, destruction
a) of money
b) the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

Well, it looks like Destruction can absolutely mean eternal misery in hell. What else would Jesus be referring to? What would he be referring to when spoke of Life? All the way through the gospels, Jesus spoke about Life in spiritual terms. That is what we look forward to since Jesus saved us from eternal torment and gave us the gift of eternal life. If this passage doesn't mean what it seems to mean, then what does it mean?

Also, God does not send people to eternal torment. Everyone has the choice to reject or believe on Jesus Christ for salvation! Those who reject his gift of salvation will send themselves to hell. It is not something God desires, but it is a choice for everyone to make. Sadly, most people I know either don't believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, or they blaspheme his name by using his name as a curse word.

Kevin

RE: Kevin...

I think it's great that you are starting to read and looking things up. That's a good thing!

You are trying so hard to prove your point....albeit, unsuccessfully, I'm afraid. But, I really appreciate effort and hard work. I've already been where you are now, so I do understand you. And you'll get over it just as I did...fighting and kicking against the truth until it hits you in the heart and spirit of your being.

And it's amazing when you finally do.....such joy!!

Keep on studying...but try more from the Bible for a change. When you do, the Holy Spirit of God will lead you to discover truths you never could see in the past without Him....

Have a great evening!!

Arlene