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DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?


FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES



So many Christians hang on "tooth and nail" to the prospect of a coming "7-year Tribulation" and all that goes with it. They believe it, they preach it, and they will not let go in spite of any FACTS told them.

They cannot have learned this from Bible study....because it's NOT THERE!

The Bible is NOT all about the JEWS. IT'S ALL ABOUT JESUS CHRIST....and God's plan of salvation....see John 3:16. (We SHOULD all know this one by heart.) "For God so loved"....WHO? "THE WORLD" and this includes everybody, including the Jews, AND everyone else as well. For ALL HAVE SINNED.

Romans 3:9..."What then: are we better than they ? No, in no wise: for we have before proved BOTH Jews and Gentiles, that they are ALL UNDER SIN; (vs.10) As it is written, 'There is NONE RIGHTEOUS, no, NOT ONE."

There is NOBODY who is "special" or "favorite" with God....He is "no respecter of persons" (Romans 2:11). And He will give no GROUP of people any more (or less) "tribulation" than we ALL GO THROUGH, individually. His goal, and it WILL BE REACHED, is SALVATION OF HIS CREATION, whether or not you believe it as He has told us in the Bible. Mistranslations have cause a "multitude of sins" in believing lies.

In the NT, it BEGAN with the baptism of Jesus, and it ENDED with the total destruction of the Temple. There are to be no more "sacrifices" for sin because Jesus Christ (GOD) finished it once and for all, HIMSELF!

Perhaps this history will help clear up a few misunderstandings about what the Bible actually says....and the people who have changed the meaning.


http://www.mountaintopministries.info/145952643



Piece of the article from someone who knows a LOT MORE THAN WE DO about all of this....before some men destroyed biblical meanings in the late 1800s....and after that time as well:



Matthew Henry's commentary on Daniel 9:24-27

As an added witness to the veracity of my understanding of this prophecy, here is an excerpt from a very well known and respected Bible commentator Matthew Henry, a Presbyterian minister, dated 1708-1710:

"We have, in verses (24-27), one of the most remarkable prophecies of Christ, of his coming and his salvation. It shows that the Jews are guilty of most obstinate unbelief, in expecting another Messiah, so long after the time expressly fixed for his coming. The seventy weeks mean a day for a year, or 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice would be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation. All blessings bestowed on sinful man come through Christ's atoning sacrifice, who suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. Here is our way of access to the throne of grace, and of our entrance to heaven. This seals the sum of prophecy, and confirms the covenant with many; and while we rejoice in the blessings of salvation, we should remember what they cost the Redeemer. How can those escape who neglect so great salvation!"

As you can see from the above quote, Matthew Henry, a Protestant writing in the early 18th century, knew nothing of a gap between the 69th and 70th week, and he knew nothing of a 7-year peace treaty with the antichrist in verse 27.

Futurist interpretation

The futurist interpretation of this passage denies the prophecy of Jesus' baptism in verse 24. It also denies His crucifixion in verse 27 and applies it instead to the antichrist, in an astounding twisting of Scripture. It is my belief that the futurists' house is built on sand and will not stand up to the scrutiny of the Holy Scriptures. They simply do not have a case, they have a relatively recent fairy tale designed to obscure the truth and spread confusion, whether they know it or not.

The authors of the futurist fairy tale can be traced back to John Nelson Darby, and even further back to the Catholic Church, specifically a Spanish Jesuit priest by the name of Francisco Ribera (1537-1591). During the counterreformation he concocted the futurist interpretation to deflect reformist claims that the papacy was the Antichrist of Scripture. There is apparently no evidence that the futurist interpretation predates the Catholic counterreformation. It was intended as a smoke screen, and it has served its purposes well.

****************

Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Arlene,
If you are correct that the 70th week of Daniel was already fulfilled directly after the 69th week, where would you say we are now in God's timeline? Do you believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 is yet to be fulfilled, and if so, when will it be fulfilled? Do you believe that Revelation 4-19 has already been fulfilled, or is it yet to come?

Kevin

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Hi Kevin...Good questions!

Last year I fully believed in the "rapture" and the Tribulation. But I was wrong. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong...at least in my later years. Finding out was a "culture shock" to me because I was so gullible that I believed that some people were smarter than I was concerning the Bible and its teachings. I learned my doctrines from books and "men"...I trusted them because I knew no different.

I did not have much time for the Bible when I worked....but when I don't have to work to earn a living, I have no excuse but to learn as much as God allows.

I KNOW that each of us goes through testing, trial, and tribulation in our lives. It's not concerning being "good", or doing anything to please God. It's learning to completely let God control US. That's very difficult! And the ONLY way I could try to understand what God wanted me to do is to open up my Bible and read, and compare scriptures, and study.

Piece by piece, the "dots" began to connect. THEN I understood what the difference between the "natural" and "spiritual" understanding was. There are going to be no "scorpions", "dragons", or visible "marks", in the future. Those are only symbols of spiritual events and things that happen to each one of us as an individual. Things I have posted explain quite a bit.

It might be a good idea to look up meanings of these symbols in order to understand what is being said. I figured some of them out by myself, but there is very good instruction from others who know more than I do...J. Preston Eby is excellent in his teachings. But he's impossible to understand unless one is willing to give up thinking with the "natural" mind. I've seen one internet site that does it's best to demean him, and I have read what it says. And Eby is frightfully mis-quoted. To me, he is genuine in his love for the Lord...as am I.

What is going to happen will be a "spiritual" happening for ALL of us. The Book of Revelation was written for people back in the first century as well as the people of today. EVERY event will happen to ALL of us, in one way or another...depending on how we need to grow spiritually.....some more than others.

My own belief about I Corinthians 15:52 is only a guess, but I believe it will happen in "the twinkling of an eye", just as the Bible tells us. The "Kingdom of God" is within us, and it's a "spiritual" Kingdom. When all comes to the point when God has already determined it is time, ALL WILL BE CHANGED. We will all suddenly go from a physical world into the spiritual. It's nothing we can "see" that will happen....it will just happen to everyone living at that time. Some will be ready for the next "world" and some will not....depending on if they are prepared for it.

I know nothing of that "spiritual" world coming...except it will be glorious beyond the imagination. But there will be those who have wrong beliefs and have not "done their homework" in this present life. But God is all merciful and loving....and all impurities will be removed IN TIME from those who need it.

Scripture says that they will have THEIR PART in the lake of fire...Rev.21:8. Fire is a purifier, as is "brimstone". God, Himself is a "consuming fire" (Deut. 4:24). The view of the "lake of fire" is spiritual. It can't be physical (natural) because spiritual beings (as we will be then) cannot be burned by physical fire.

It will not be forever, but it will involve some time (maybe another aion...I don't know)...according as necessary for purifying the sins. I don't yet know much more about this. But I DO know that a LOVING AND MERCIFUL God would NOT do the same thing as Nebuchadnezzar did to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego when they wouldn't bow down to worship him. And the Bible says that God calls this an "abomination" in Jeremiah 32:35. Yet Pastors SCARE people by saying that God is so loving that He will throw people into "hell" for all eternity. WHAT A LIE!! How can anyone worship a God who would do something so horrible!!??

This lie has been perpetrated by MISTRANSLATION of the word "forever" in most bibles. Do a study on that word "AION" and find the truth.

We live in this "age" (aion) for the present...but there are "ages" (aions) to come. Each will have it's purpose in God's whole plan for mankind. And, as God has said, "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord....". And if God said it, I believe it....no matter what any MAN has said concerning anything different.

For the present time, none of us need worry about anything. Each one of us is in the hands of God....and His purpose will be fulfilled IN SPITE of anything we do or don't do.

Sometimes we try too hard. All we must do is READ and STUDY our own Bibles and let the Holy Spirit of God do all the work for us. (II Tim.2:15)

AND WE SHOULD STOP LETTING OTHER MEN TELL US WHAT TO BELIEVE...OR NOT BELIEVE. It's disgusting to me when people destroy other people's "faith" by saying things they learn from their "Pastor"....when the Pastor was trained in a school to make a living. And if the Pastor is wrong...look how many people are learning things that aren't true. It's like spreading a disease! More of us should study the Bible and think for ourselves.

We should ALWAYS look to God (through the bible) for our beliefs. We should also look to each other in love...and keep the line of communication open. In this world, we (believers) are all we have. That's what a "church" is....it's US!

When do I think this "change" will happen? My "educated" guess is not very long from now. Maybe tomorrow....but certainly not more than a couple more years. People will not survive much longer than that. And evil is growing more and more every day. Have faith that it will be at EXACTLY THE RIGHT TIME!

You asked my beliefs and thoughts...and that is what I have come to believe. I would love to see more "Christianity" within the "body of Christ" and less "Churchianity"...


Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Arlene,
you said:
As you can see from the above quote, Matthew Henry, a Protestant writing in the early 18th century, knew nothing of a gap between the 69th and 70th week, and he knew nothing of a 7-year peace treaty with the antichrist in verse 27.

thing is, although there is no new revelation from GOD, The Holy Spirit has opened our eyes of understanding in this final age.

About Daniels 70th week:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Jesus and the prophets clearly wrote of the rapture,and the 7 year tribulation period before the 2nd coming..(2 Thess 2 is "Departure" _as in the Rapture _not religious apostacy).Now this was understood in Bible times and was clearly understood hundreds of years ago by the dreadfully persecuted and despised; faithful Ana-Baptist minority....

In our final days GOD has raised up faithful teachers who have been tasked with bringing forth this doctrine to the whole world

"against much clamor and opposition" as Newton said

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Lewis...You are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT.

One could quote "Saddam Hussein" in something that is TRUTH. It doesn't matter if he is the worse person in the world...(and I am not saying this of Saddam...it's just a figurative example)...TRUTH IS TRUTH no matter the source.

It matters not if Matthew Henry was Protestant, Hindu, or Islamic...if what he says is TRUE, then TRUTH is being told....and it makes no difference WHO the man is in the scheme of things.

What you are doing is taking away from what is really being said. Suppose someone gives you a wonderful, yummy, decorated cake to enjoy. But instead of enjoying the cake, you complain that one of the decorations is faulty. And out goes some enjoyment of what should have been a pleasurable experience.

I wouldn't, as a rule, believe ONE THING coming out of the mouth of a politician, but if they said "grass is green"....I would believe it because it's true.

And maybe, just maybe, Matthew Henry didn't know anything about the "gap" in the 70 weeks....BECAUSE IT NEVER EXISTED! And that's the TRUTH!! The Apostles didn't know about this either, apparently, because they never told us this information. It would be a pretty important thing to miss telling us about! And since they didn't....maybe it's JUST NOT THERE!!

But, I'm glad you are reading what I'm trying to point out....and that's a good thing!

Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Lewis, regarding 2 Thess 2:3, in my study I've come across much debate about what is actually being said here, even just now I went to Biblegateway and did a parallel study of that verse using KJV, NIV and Amplified which I have found to be the most meaningfully accurate not word accurate but meaning, anyway, if you put the word rapture in there instead, does it really make sense? The Thessalonians were concerned 'that day' or the rapture had already occurred and had been left behind so Paul was assuring them 'that day' or the rapture had not come yet and was reminding them the conditions prior to this happening. So if we replace the words 'falling away' which you say equals rapture and we replace 'that day' also to mean rapture then we will wind up with as follows;
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for 'the rapture' shall not come, except 'the rapture' come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Now I've also heard that 'that day' is referring to God's wrath. The problem with this is that there would be no doubt about it already have taken place, because when it takes place, it's complete devastation right?

I don't know, I've seen such extreme explanations in an attempt to define the falling away as the rapture yet when you put the word rapture in there it doesn't seem to make sense.

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?





There are some good points there, and it shows you have a great heart for learning the truth. But, why look for a rose bush in a garbage dump?

That's a metaphor that truth will NOT be found if you are looking in the WRONG place! Most, or many, Christians are searching for evidence on when God's plan (from BEFORE the foundation of the world...Ephesians 1:4.) will TERMINATE (for physical signs or dates), but NOBODY is looking for GOD'S ACTUAL PLAN, and it's PURPOSE!

One cannot determine an outcome of a "game" unless they know the game plan FIRST! Again, a metaphor. (Some might jump on me saying that "it's not a game", etc....so, I say this to avoid that argument.)

I posted this one today as a main link on errors made....but it is EXCELLENT in an overview of God's plan through the ages....and it's outcome.


http://www.kingdomandglory.com/art/art35.pdf


If one knows this, and understands it, then it makes "moot" all the arguments about any "rapture", "apostasy", or when the "Day of the Lord" is. BECAUSE WE ARE IN IT! We are ALL being "tested and tried" right now, in our lifetimes....past, present, and future....until our CHANGE comes. And NOBODY, yet, knows exactly how this will be done. All I know is that God said it will be "in the twinkling of an eye"...I Cor.15:52. The "trumpet" is symbolic. There is no time in the "twinkling of an eye" to hear or see ANYTHING!

Once I understood that the Bible is written for EVERYONE who reads it, since it's beginning....then I KNEW that everything in it applies to anyone who reads it.... Christians living in the first century, and Christians living now. It's for ALL people, in ALL TIMES.

Yet, Christians today believe that the Book of Revelation was written for them alone (for Christians living near the end of this age). That can't be true because it's a "spiritual" book for this "age". God doesn't want us to see with "natural eyes"....He is putting us through trials and tribulations to MATURE OUR SPIRITS, and to see these things through "spiritual eyes".

But, I see you are coming a long way into doing what we SHOULD be doing....searching out the truth for yourself. God knows that I'm made my share of mistakes in the past....but I learn from each one.

In Christian love,

Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Arlene, question, if we are in the 'the day of the Lord' and there is no 'rapture', then what do you think Paul was trying to reassure these christians of in 2 Thess 2?

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Arlene,
Thanks for answering some of my questions. I would agree with you that the resurrection/catching away should happen very soon. I have read some of Preston Eby's teachings, but I don't think we should spiritualize all of scripture, and I definitely don't agree with his teaching concerning the ultimate reconciliation of all souls condemned to the lake of fire. I don't think Jesus ever made reference to eternal ****ation being only for a certain number of years. God is not full of hatred or anything like that, but he is holy just as he is love. He is not just love only, as Rob Bell would have us to believe. I completely reject the doctrine of ultimate reconciliation! That doctrine even says that Satan and the other fallen angels will ultimately be purified and reconciled to God. I don't buy it! The lake of fire is eternal, just as the Bible says it is. I didn't get that from any pastor, but from God's word.

As far as Revelation is concerned, I realize that some of it is using symbolism. However, I don't think that burning mountains coming down, and 1/3 of the waters being made bitter, etc. are spiritual symbols of anything. I believe too, that when the 5th trumpet judgement comes, there will be demonic locusts stinging people for 5 months. I believe that when the trumpet and vial judgements are carried out, it will literally be like hell on earth. Jesus spoke of this time in Matthew 24: Matthew 24:21 (KJV) 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 (KJV) 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

It will definitely not just be some invisible spiritual happenings, but real physical tribulation that this world has never experienced yet. I also believe there will be a literal mark of the beast forced on every person, which will be part of the NWO cashless society system. It just makes sense that the world is headed in that direction with the RFID technology, and the late Aaron Russo spoke of his conversations with Nick Rockefeller, where Rockefeller said it was their ultimate goal of controlling everyone by microchipping them. It's all about controlling the masses, so that they can't buy or sell without the RFID chip implanted in their right hand or forehead. That is a real physical reality that will happen in the near future.

Kevin

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?


For "walkinbyfaith"...

Wow! That's a dilly of a question!! If that could be answered in a sentence or two, it would have been done long before now by Christians who know a lot more than I do.

However, from what the verses say, the people were expecting the Second Coming at that time because they were in great persecution by the Romans. The Thessalonians, like Christians today, were seeing the Day of the Lord as a scary and frightening event that was coming in the future. But it was already present, and working at that time.

Paul told them not to be deceived by anyone. They were to go about their own business, continue in faith as he had told them, and not to worry...II Thess.2:15-17. All that Paul said in verses 3-12 are an overview of their fears. (Some of it has to be seen with "spiritual" eyes, and that's almost impossible to do with someone who can't see it...yet.)

He had told them in his previous epistles, all the things they needed to know, but they were frightened with all the persecution they were going through AT THE PRESENT TIME with the Roman rulers. And Paul had told them this would happen.

He reminded them in vs. 7..."For the mystery of iniquity doth ALREADY WORK..." And this could only be stopped when God stops it...and not before. Persecution, trouble, and tribulation was not just coming in the future...IT WAS THERE NOW, and they were feeling it, and they were scared. But they were told to stand fast (vs.15) be comforted (vs.17), and BE PATIENT (vs.5). And that's the hardest thing of all for any of us to do. We want to SEE something, or DO something...or escape it somehow.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY GOD WORKS...THEN OR NOW!

It very difficult to explain spiritual thinking to someone who isn't looking at it that way.

Never forget, though, that the KINGDOM OF GOD is INSIDE of you. See Luke 17:21. We are being worked on by the Holy Spirit INSIDE OF US (our hearts and minds). And the only way that can be done is by going through rough times (tribulation). No amount of literal famines, droughts, falling rocks, or burning grass is going to change our spiritual nature inside. But going through grief, pain, loss, and fear will do ALL THAT IS NEEDED to "purify" us...on the INSIDE....and only by having faith that this tribulation is GOOD FOR US. Each of us has to be BROKEN, so God can re-mold us into what He wants us to be.

That's as good as I can explain it for now....but those are my interpretations of that chapter.

Arlene



Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

For Kevin in response:

When I first read J. Preston Eby's writings, I literally "gasped"...and I thought it was reading something into what wasn't there. I even told Steven that there was much too much spiritualization going on there, and I couldn't fit it into my thinking.

And that wasn't too long ago....and then, something "clicked" in my brain and heart, and it all made perfect sense.

When I opened my Bible shortly thereafter, I was at I Corinthians, and the verse in front of me was, "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the POWER OF GOD. (vs.19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.....(vs.20)...hath God not made foolish the wisdom of this world."

I realized then that I was viewing scripture from "worldly " eyes. I needed "spiritual" eyesight...and I didn't have it...or maybe just a little of it.

I asked God to open my spiritual eyes....and He answered. The next time I read an Eby article, I SAW THE TRUTH IN WHAT HE WAS SAYING.

I DO NOT worship a "God" who is like Nebuchadnezzar who will throw people into eternal fire because they won't worship him!! So, I studied about the "lake of fire" and what it symbolized....and NOW I KNOW HOW WONDERFULLY MERCIFUL GOD IS. And most Christians say they love a "God" who is nothing but a cruel tyrant. They DO NOT KNOW GOD.!

Would a merciful and righteous God "harden" someone's heart ON PURPOSE (like Pharoah), to accomplish something to glorify Himself....and then throw that person into "hellfire" forever just because he DID WHAT GOD WANTED HIM TO??

IF GOD HARDENS SOMEONE'S HEART ON PURPOSE, THEN THAT PERSON CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT GOD HAS MADE HIM DO!! That's like telling your kid to cross the street my himself, and then killing him for doing it!! A human being wouldn't do that! And I think it's beyond God's thinking to do that either....see Jeremiah 32:35. God would not do what He, Himself calls AN ABOMINATION. It's not in His character, or nature to be tyrannical! God is LOVE...and he does not punish for punishment sake...like people do! His punishment is ALWAYS corrective in nature.

It's controversial, that's true. But if you hear a lie over and over, all through your life...YOU BELIEVE IT! It takes guts to "swim upstream" and try to tell Christians that they are believing lies about God.

I, for one, don't believe ANYTHING anyone tells me is true....I CHECK IT OUT!! And, if you can't understand spiritual things, then you have to ask God for understanding. He WILL NOT give you what you DON'T WANT! But most Christians read things like Eby's teachings, they discount them as false, or "too spiritual"...and they drop them like a "hot potato" and never question the veracity of them....nor do they ask God to help them.

Truth has to be "dug out"...it won't just "pop up" on your doorstep, my friend! We'll find out soon enough!! And I don't want to be "ashamed" in front of God for what I have done...or didn't do concerning scripture...see II Tim. 2:15.

Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Arlene more questions, above you said "Sometimes we try too hard. All we must do is READ and STUDY our own Bibles and let the Holy Spirit of God do all the work for us. (II Tim.2:15)

AND WE SHOULD STOP LETTING OTHER MEN TELL US WHAT TO BELIEVE...OR NOT BELIEVE."

I agree to a point. When some of us go to church and listen to our pastors it is true that some are so far off base that they should not be preaching but on the other hand there are some that are true to the Word and are gifted to teach and preach. Even you yourself confessed that you follow the teachings of men e.g. J. Preston Eby and Matthew Henry, right? We all need to be like the Bereans of Acts 17:11 testing what people teach against scripture to see if it true or not but it doesn't stop there. As you cited above it takes the Holy spirit to spiritually enlighten us to determine certain truths. I also believe it is absolutely critical that Hermeneutics be applied together with seeking out enlightenment from the Holy Spirit.

Hermeneutics is essential because without it you can make the Bible say anything you want by taking things out of context or by taking something that is literal and making it spiritual or vice versa.

The example you gave above with Nebuchadnezzar and the statement you made "I DO NOT worship a "God" who is like Nebuchadnezzar who will throw people into eternal fire because they won't worship him!!" How can that comparison even be made? Nebuchadnezzar was an evil corrupt king who was unjust and is not our Creator. God is perfectly just our Creator loving without evil or deceit. So when Nebuchadnezzar sentenced Shadrach, Mishach and Abednego to the fire for not worshipping him it is NOT a fair comparison.

First of all God doesn't send anyone to Hell it is the choice of the individual who rejects The Lord. Well you say isn't that the same as what Nebuchadnezzar did? Absolutely Not! Nebu did it for all the wrong reasons, pride, power, self image, cruelty and to reiterate he was an evil and unjust king. God is the very opposite so if someone goes to hell it's because sin and rebellion cannot be tolerated in Heaven where everything is just and pure, it would be like the garden of Eden all over again if sin and rebellion entered there. That is why He gave us free will so we could choose and not be forced to be with Him because that would not be love. It's a completely different motive and from a different heart. In 2 Peter 3:9 it says God is not willing that any should perish but that All should come to repentance. Nebu did it out of spite because the three would not succumb to his evil corrupt rule. Some might say is it really just for someone to spend eternity in hell for sins committed on earth? I would respond by saying who are we to tell God, who is perfect, what is just? What I know is Jesus humiliated Himself by lowereing himself becoming a man and suffered a horrific death at the hands of mere men to save us from going there. Now I ask, do you think He would have suffered such a horrific death if it was something we could eventually undo ourselves?

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

For "walknbyfaith"....

My Goodness! From the mouth (and hands) of someone who calls their own name "walking by faith"....and faith is not in your heart NOR in your mind!

"Hermeneutics", is a technical "professional" word taught in Theological schools to those who pay to go to school to EARN A LIVING by distorting biblical truth. Great word to make someone try to appear to be smarter than they really are!!

I DO NOT SEE THAT WORD IN THE BIBLE...NOR IS IT SCRIPTURAL!

This perfectly points out the meanings of these verses:

Romans 16:17-18..."Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YE HAVE LEARNED, and avoid them. (vs.18) For they that are such SERVE NOT OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but their OWN BELLY, and by GOOD WORDS AND FAIR SPEECHES deceive the hearts of the simple."

II Corinthians 11:3..."But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your mind should BE CORRUPTED FROM THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST."

DO YOU THINK THAT MAN IS MORE POWERFUL THAN GOD????...and MAN is in charge of his own destiny???? And do you believe that pitiful, fallen, corrupted "MAN" can then CHOOSE BY HIMSELF to be saved or not??

Jesus had the PERFECT answer to people who believe this..."Jesus answered and said unto them, 'YE DO ERR, NOT KNOWING THE SCRIPTURES, NOR THE POWER OF GOD.'"

God tells us exactly who He is in Isaiah 45:6-7....but read it for yourself, and you might learn a lot of truth about the working of God almighty. NOTHING IS EVER DONE ANYWHERE, EVER, EXCEPT BY PERMISSION OR CAUSATIVE ACTION BY HIM. Everything evil in this world is ALLOWED by Him. NOTHING happens over which He is not in TOTAL CONTROL. He is ALL POWERFUL, AND HE IS ALMIGHTY...yet puny, fallen, rotten-to-the core, deceitful "man" has the GALL TO SAY THE HE HAS THE CHOICE, inherent capability within himself, and the POWER to determine his own salvation...or not.

THAT IS PURE IDIOCY! THAT IS "PRIDEFUL" MAN IN ALL HIS GLORY!! THAT SHOWS VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF WHO GOD REALLY IS...AND WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR ALL OF MANKIND ON THE "CROSS OF CAVALRY". Luke 23:34......."Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."...


Maybe you can learn some TRUTH from someone who knows much more than all of us:


http://www.tentmaker.org/books/FreeMoralAgent-Eby.html

Piece within the link:


No one ever comes to Jesus without God having planned the time and the manner. No one ever "decides" to accept Jesus of his own "free will. " It is the volition of the Lord that moves powerfully and irresistibly upon the sinner to trust the Saviour, and not the will of the spiritually dead creature who loves darkness rather than light! "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me DRAW him..." (Jn. 6:44). Do you think that you came to the Christ of your own free will, as a free moral agent? Do you dare assume that your old corrupt mind and heart somehow became persuaded to violate its very nature and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Then read Jn. 6:44 and Jn. 12:32 again and accept it for what it plainly says! Treat these verses with honesty. Jesus says that NO ONE can come unto Him apart from the irresistible force of God's drawing, and He also says that because He died HE WILL FORCIBLY AND IRRESISTIBLY DRAW A-L-L M-E-N unto Himself.

I sought the Lord, and afterwards

I knew He moved my soul to seek Him, seeking me!

It was not I that found, 0 Saviour true;

No, I was found of Thee!

Are you a born again believer? Then kneel humbly before your God and Saviour and confess that it was because HE DREW you, and not because you exercised some inherent prerogative of "free moral agency." Acknowledge His Word to be truth, and that just as surely as HE SUCCESSFULLY DREW YOU, He shall likewise draw and DRAW and D-R-A-W until He has drawn ALL MEN unto Himself! We ourselves are the living proof that He both can and will do it! "GOD hath saved us ... not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Tim. 1: 9). "The Son giveth life to whom He will... " (Jn. 5:2 1). "I will draw all men unto Me." (Jn. 12:32).

BY ONE MAN

******************

AND THAT MAN/GOD IS JESUS CHRIST!

How can you possibly "walk by faith" and believe that "man" has power over his own salvation...or not????

BELIEVE THE BIBLE...NOT MAN!!

In Christian love....AND...in Bible TRUTH...

Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Wow! You may want to re-read your post because quite frankly there is no love in it. Every accusation you have made against me and others you have demonstrated in yourself. You wrote

yet puny, fallen, rotten-to-the core, deceitful "man" has the GALL TO SAY THE HE HAS THE CHOICE, inherent capability within himself, and the POWER to determine his own salvation...or not.
It is true that we cannot come to the Father unless He draws us but He knows who it is that will believe and who will not John 6:64-65 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

If we had no choice in the matter then Romans 1:19-24 would be null and void "19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

Regarding how you speak to others consider 1 Cor 13:1-7 "13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

RE: Walknbyfaith...


You do not know God, and you do not understand the Bible. If you did, you would not say those things that you did.

I have GREAT LOVE for God, and I have great love for those who LOVE HIM! But I have have disdain for those who call God a LIAR! As for "MAN"....he IS "puny, fallen, rotten-to-the-core, AND deceitful! I did not say that about YOU, specifically!! I, MYSELF, fall into those categories as well...as does EVERYBODY!... ALL MEN ARE THIS WAY IN THEIR INNER, FALLEN NATURE. That's why we ALL need salvation!

But PRAISE GOD, that we ARE BEING CHANGED, by HIM, from what we are NOW into what HE wants us to become IN THE FUTURE. None of us are there yet! but WE ALL WILL BE EVENTUALLY...in God's time, not ours! God's choice, not ours!

GOD TELLS US, HIMSELF, in I Timothy 2:3-4..."For this is GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour; (vs.4) WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH."

If GOD tells me that He "WILLS ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED", then I, for one, will not argue with Him. I WILL argue with those who say differently and, thereby, call God a LIAR!!

I speak TRUTH in love....BECAUSE I LOVE THE TRUTH, AND I LOVE GOD...and I LOVE MY FELLOW CHRISTIANS enough to point out the truth to them when they are unable to see it for themselves!!

We LOVE our children enough to speak harshly to them when it is necessary because they will hear us no other way! We have to correct them!! And that's out of LOVE, not hate! God treats US harshly when He wants to correct us....ITS CALLED "TRIBULATION". And we ALL go through it....daily, or whenever necessary.

Did JESUS ever speak harshly to ANYONE??? He sure as heck did!!

Matthew 23:23..."Woe unto you, scribes and Pharasees, HYPOCRITES! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (vs.24) Ye BLIND GUIDES, WHICH STRAIN AT A GNAT, AND SWALLOW A CAMEL, (vs.25) WOE UNTO YOU, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but within they are full of extortion and excess. (vs.26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is WITHIN the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. (VS.27) WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are WITHIN full of dead man's bones.....(vs.29) WOE UNTO YOU, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,..."

HE (GOD) WAS ANGRY BECAUSE THEY WERE CALLING HIM A "LIAR".

Jesus was not always "sweet and gentle", nor is He now! HE IS GOD! He is almighty, all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. And when HE SAYS THAT HE "WILLS ALL MEN TO BE SAVED", then I BELIEVE HIM. I will not argue with Him...BUT, I will argue to the death with those who say anything different.

You are REGURGITATING what you have heard in a church building by a Pastor. (OR what you have heard others speak of write).... I know this, because I have "been there and done that"...until I realized that the "honey-coated" gospel that was being preached by others was a lie....all the while shouting out why people will go to hell and "burn in torment forever"!!

That would make God WORSE than Nebuchadnezzar...or Hitler...or Pol Pot!!

God will perform His will, and His "will" is the only one that counts! Anyone who says that "man" can do the deciding for God, does not know God at all! God wants our love...and we will give it FULLY when we understand Who He really is. Who can possibly LOVE a "GOD" who TERRORIZES "man" into turning to Him because they FEAR WHAT HE WILL DO TO THEM IF THEY DON'T?

That's what Nebuchadnezzar did! And God told us that it was an "ABOMINATION" for people to throw their children into the fire in worship of Molech (Jeremiah 32:35)...and people actually BELIEVE that God would do the SAME THING that He, Himself calls an "ABOMINATION"???

NO, my friend, you don't know the God of the Bible! The God you worship is not the same one I worship. My God is all-loving, merciful, and JUST. Your GOD is vengeful and hateful...seeing vengeance in EVERY wrong doing...and causing people to do what He wants, and then punishing them for doing it. If people don't, won't, or can't believe NOW....THROW THEM INTO FIRE AND TORMENT FOREVER. This ISN'T the God of the Bible!

Yes, there is plenty of LOVE in me for God and God's true people...but not for those who LIE about Him or the words He has given us. And not for people who WON'T hear the truth, IN SPITE OF contrary evidence....and continually attack those who do.

My WHOLE ADULT LIFE has been spent in the caring for, AND LOVING, all kinds of people who were, for the major part, unlovable.....crying with them, praying with them and their families, mourning in deaths and disease...and sometimes spending half my sleep time in prayer for them. Then waking tired, and hurting in my bones and joints from the day before...and then doing it all over again the next day. And I did this for around 35 years. God put JOY in my heart for doing this...and I call this "love".

Arlene

Re: DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK....WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

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