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http://son-of-encouragement.blogspot.com/2011/11/right-wing-prophecyexperts-like-hal.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!


Joe Ortiz:

Christians have been deceived! Even when you show them Bible proof that the Rapture to Heaven doctrine is false, they continue to drink the Kool Aid! WAKE UP DISCIPLES!


http://son-of-encouragement.blogspot.com/2011/11/right-wing-prophecyexperts-like-hal.html




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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I just asked mr. Ortiz some critical questions concerning the church and the great tribulation in a comment that hopefully he will see. I don't see any encouragement at all in his article. It is just criticism of Hal Lindsey and other prophecy scholars that have really studied Bible prophecy in depth.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,


I look forward to viewing your questions and Mr. Ortiz answers.


I have personally spoken with Mr. Ortiz on the phone.

He has been very cordial and polite in my conversations between us.



God Bless

Steven

Steven,
I'm sure he is very cordial to those who share his view of the church suffering the great tribulation. I doubt that my comment will even be posted or seen by mr. Ortiz, but I gave it a shot. I don't have time to read his books, but maybe he could give me a readers digest condensed version of them. I just want to know certain details about his views concerning Revelation, and our part in it, as well as the part Israel plays in it. He really beat up on Hal Lindsey, whom I have much respect for.

Kevin

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Note: Before commenting on any posts please make sure you either watch or read each post in it’s entirety. Before, making a comment, if you don’t have the time to watch or read fully please restrain from commenting. When you do this it will help to reduce confusion.


http://www.heisnear.com/FalseProphecyTeachersToday.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!

Do your diligence and pray the HOLY SPIRIT lead you to all TRUTH.

Mr. Ortiz is not 100% correct no man is....but the HOLY SPIRIT will lead us to all TRUTH.



Here is the link to the full article and website:

http://www.heisnear.com/FalseProphecyTeachersToday.html



-[snippet]-

Since "The Late Great Planet Earth" was published in 1970 by Hal Lindsey, a whole generation of tens of millions of believers and unbelievers worldwide have been blinded to critical BIBLE topics by his numerous huge errors.


Lindsey's book (and subsequent books) then sparked a 40 year downline (1970 - 2010) of 'copy-and-paste' authors, Bible scholars and prophecy 'experts' who have, to this day, also perpetuated Lindsey's grand errors. [itemized below]


Plus, since the body of Christ's pattern is to NOT study the scriptures, but to form their beliefs based primarily by 'listening' to their favorite 'TV Preacher' or Church Pastor's opinions, then God's people are immediately open to being misled and to believing deceptions and false doctrines.


Mr. Lindsey's original root mistake is having studied these deeper crucial topics of God's Word by his 'natural mind' instead of by being taught by the anointing of the Spirit as God requires. [1 John 2:27]

Virtually ALL of this generation's popular but blind Prophecy speakers and authors in Lindsey's downline also used their 'natural minds' [1Corinthians 2:14] resulting in gross errors, gross negligence to Gods people and misleading millions.

According to the Lord Jesus, this is one aspect of what makes a Bible teacher false. Namely, when he 'misleads' others away from God's Word. [Matthew 24:4,11, 24]


Other popularized prophecy 'experts' in America who are also on public record, to this day, of holding Hal Lindsey's failed views and/or offshoots of these views are: Pastor John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Perry Stone, Grant Jeffrey, Tim La Haye, Hilton Sutton, Chuck Missler, David Reagan, Joel Rosenberg , Dr. Irvin Baxter, Jerry Jenkins and numerous others.


Scripturally, these must be labeled as 'false teachers'



At this point until they repent, today's TV Prophecy celeb- rities and applauded Prophecy authors must be viewed as false teachers since they grossly 'mislead' God's people.

In fact, many of the very KEY crucial topics which the Lord Jesus foretold for His followers in today's End Times to "see" accurately in order to "know He is near", are the very topics completely distorted out of shape by Lindsey and his unanimous prophecy knock-offs. [Matthew 24:33]


Contrary to the naive notions of many believers today, God's true, bonafide, anointed and called Ministers are NOT those who have a mixed bag of truth COUPLED WITH false teachings like the men mentioned here. Nor do God's true bond-servants teach 'mostly' accurate teachings but coupled with some 'huge errors' at the same time.


Nor will God's true prophetical ministers and End Time teachers be those who will IN ANY WAY mislead and blind other souls to the truth as these men already have. The body of Christ's EYES are beginning to open up to this sobering fact.

Try to imagine if Moses would've come down from the mountain top with 'partially' right commandments from God. Or, try to picture the Apostle Paul having written two-thirds of the New Testament, yet still teaching some 'huge errors' at the same time which 'mislead' God 's people.


But, God's true 5-Fold ministers (apostles, prophets, evang- elists, pastors, teachers) are those who are totally accurate in their teachings of God's Word and on the topics they expound on or write about. His true Prophecy Teachers 'handle accurately the word of truth' [2Timothy 2:15] and in no way will 'mislead' God's children on ANY account.





For today's popular TV Preachers like Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, Jack Van Impe and Tim La Haye who have spent much if not all of their concentrations for 20, 30, 50 years writing and speaking about "prophecy", then it will take great humility for them to recognize and receive correction on their many grave errors which have blinded so many millions, even reaping financial rewards from God's unsuspecting flock.

What is God's Wisdom through all of this MAN-MADE confusion and blindness?


Dear friends: God is not mocked. (Galatians 6:7). Although Lindsey's 1970 errors still blind the masses today, God has used this last 40 year time period of blindness to ready His people for the most EYE-OPENING explosion of global awareness of Christ's Nearness in 20 centuries, exactly as scriptures foretell for today's End Times.

During this generation's 100% indoctrination to Hal Lindsey's false teachings since 1970, God has also allowed the global scenario to PRECISELY shape up into an INEVITABLE APEX right now for fulfillment. As stated, this includes the imminent foretold explosion of global awareness of the Nearness of Christ's Return and the approaching 'start' of the final Tribulation. [Link below: The coming Final Move of God]

Literally, NOW is that very time for God's people's EYES to SNAP OPEN to the 'elephant standing right in the middle of the front room' of this generation. Namely, Antichrist and ALL foretold End Time events on the world's stage today.


Interestingly, today's exalted Prophecy 'experts' named here may very well be some of the last to have their EYES OPENED since they may prove to have more desire to hang onto their own reputations rather than, in humility, embracing the truths of God's Word

THE MAJOR ERRORS THEMSELVES:



BELOW are the PRIME Crucial Errors of "The Late Great Planet Earth". As emphasized, these giant errors have literally caused a whole generation for 40 years to be 100% BLINDED, including to Antichrist's identity and his physical presence on the world stage right now and as precisely shown at Heisnear.com with jolting clarity:


"2 men coming":



Without question, this concept is the biggest blinding error originated by Hal Lindsey. This false notion by itself has caused untold millions of God's people and unbelievers to continually ponder over Lindsey's mysterious "2 men". Not to mention Lindsey's own obvious public bewilderment about "who these 2 men could possibly be?". But, scriptures specific- ally show 'only 1 man' is coming, not "2". [Links below]


Amazing, how millions submit to Lindsey's 'expertise' about 'Antichrist', yet he leaves them empty-handed every time.



His books erroneously state an 'unknown first man: Anti- christ' will come out of the woodwork in the End Times, and at sometime in the future. Everyone knows that this is Hal Lindsey's devout teaching all along since 1970.


The topic of Lindsey's '2nd person: the false prophet' is passed by completely in his discussions, calling him Anti- christ's 'sidekick'. Amazingly, for 40 years now, any mention of the topic of the 'false prophet' by today's Prophecy 'experts' is left 100% untouched. Not even a mention of it within the body of Christ as well.


However, as scriptures precisely show and as is elaborated on thoroughly in "Here is Wisdom" ('84) and "Two Beasts Rising" (2007), the false prophet is the SOLE evil man of sin himself, and one-and-the-same-man as Antichrist.


The Apostle John, the Revelator, clearly understood this even during the Patmos Isle vision itself. Again, this is made simple and clear in these 2 books and in numerous topical sections of Heisnear.com. [Books/Links below]


"No one can know who Antichrist is !"

This incredible blunder totally contradicts the Bible's vast amounts of information provided to us about Antichrist. God isn't in the business of keeping His people in the dark about Antichrist


as Hal Lindsey has ingeniously pawned off to this generation.

To the contrary. The Bible even names its critical infor- mation about Antichrist's identity to be God's 'wisdom'. [Rev 13:18 / 17:9]. Today's 'experts' do not have this wisdom.

In effect, Hal Lindsey's own total blindness as to 'who antichrist is?' has been successfully sold for 40 years to this generation which has taken the bait 'hook-line-and-sinker'.


The anti-Biblical idea saying that "No one can know who Antichrist is!" has completely misdirected God's people and unbelievers globally, causing millions of readers and hearers to UNANIMOUSLY jump into the 'Antichrist guessing-game' for over 4 decades now.





This false statement coupled with Lindsey's first mistake ["2 men coming" theory] have so completely blinded God's people and unbelievers worldwide that many people today don't bother giving the topic a serious second thought.


They simply have accepted the false concept that "Nobody knows.......".


Even secular TV Networks, like CNN, have thrown their own 'hats into the ring' about Antichrist's identity. They've also reaped the financial rewards from a global audience who thirsts for the truth, but still receives the frenzied copy-and-pasted speculations all originating from Hal Lindsey's 1970's major blunders. Hundreds of End Time websites add to today's blindness and confusion about Antichrist's identity.


Again, to reiterate, scriptures show that to remain blind to Antichrist's identity is a critical mistake, even potentially eternally accursed when considering the 'mark of the beast'.


So far, this generation continues to leave it up to today's Prophecy 'experts' while continuing to buy up their Prophecy books filled with errors and speculations at record-setting paces. At the same time, today's blind prophecy preachers/authors reap the financial gains from continuing to perpetuate their own confusion of having NO CLUE about Antichrist's identity. Literally, it is the 'blind-leading-the- blind' scenario when it comes to the topic of "Antichrist".


-[snip]-



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

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I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

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Well, The moderator saw fit to post my comment to Joe Ortiz, and Joe Ortiz answered my comment. He didn't really directly answer my questions however. He seems to have a really arrogant way of answering those like me, who have a pre-trib view. Here below is the text of my comment and his comment back to me.

Kevin


"Kevin said...
Mr. Ortiz, what kind of encouragement do you have for born again believers in Jesus Christ, since you espouse this view that we will suffer great tribulation? What is the purpose of the great tribulation? Is it to punish those who have rejected Jesus Christ and take the mark of the beast, or to punish those of us who are true believers and disciples of Jesus? Is that time period also the 70th week of Daniel, in which God will bring forth a remnant of Israel which will then go on to live in the millenial reign of Christ? Where will the church be during the millenial reign of Christ? Obviously, we will not be alive here on earth when Jesus returns to end the great tribulation and establish his millenial reign. Please answer my questions.
4:37 PM
Joe Ortiz said...
Well, Kevin, hang in there and keep researching and soon you will get to know deeper insights into the Lord's overall redemption plan. You may also find the difference in the dictionary between the words "tribulation" and "wrath." The word tribulation means persecution, which Christians have suffered throughout history, as many do so today. Wrath (which people confuse when they use the phrase "The Great Tribulation (which, by the way, that phrase is not in the Bible)," is the punishment God pours out on those who did not believe Him nor accepted His gift of Salvation. Obviously, those who did accept the gift from God are not destined to experience God's wrath. But, as stated previously, Christians will experience great persecution, the tribulation, which Paul advised us (see Acts 14:22)would be a reality to enter into the Kingdom. This is why so many skittish Christians love to hear the soothing and titillating "Rapture to Heaven" myth, because they are not prepared to suffer for Christ, as so many martyrs throughout history have.

But, as I have clearly outline in my book, and the title should be a great clue (The End Times PASSOVER), just like God protected the Israelites when He poured out a myriad of plagues on Egypt, He is able to protect His children (See Psalm 91 and 2 Peter 2:4-9) through any ordeal without having to remove them to a safe place in Heaven. He never removed the three young lads in the furnace, nor Daniel from the Lion's Den. He was right there with them all the time!

Once again, Kevin, hang in there with your studies and soon it will not only be revealed to you, you will find yourself casting off the unbiblical notions of a Rapture to Heaven scenario.

Many Blessings!
Joe Ortiz, author
The End Times Passover"

Hi Kevin,


I read your question and Mr. Ortiz answer.

In MY opinion he answered very politely without arrogance.

I did not detect arrogance.

Mr. Ortiz encouraged you to do your diligence. ( to study to shew yourself approved )

I have done the same thing many times on this site.

I am not trying to be arrogant but to find answers we have to INVEST time in prayer and reading God's WORD for the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to all truth.

I have also posted many videos explaining the PREWRATH biblical explanation.

( Many have commented on these without watching them )
The ones who have watched them have FAVORABLE responses.

REGARDING:

Robert Van Kampen:The Biblical Defense for the Prewrath Rapture of the Church

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/RobertVKampenPrewrathVideos
BOB Wrote:

Charles Holler Sr. Wrote:







Sometimes to get answers a person has to INVEST the time.

That is my opinion.

Also I have shared the link to the books by Mr. Ortiz.

They are FREELY GIVEN.

No Charge...

Gratis.....

Anyways, for anyone who will invest the time to read his books here are the links.

Links to Free PDF Copies of Joe books



The End Times Passover

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0By9dVV_URABMZWEyNjg0MjktNjE0Zi00M2RjLWFmMjUtYTg2ZmIzYzMzZTUy&hl=en&authkey=CNLW2IIE



Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0By9dVV_URABMNWMxMDQ1NmEtZjQ2NC00YjhmLWIwMmEtNDBiZDUyYmMzODhl&hl=en&authkey=COjuysgP


I appreciated Mr. Ortiz explaining the definition and differences between

Tribulation v Wrath









God Bless

Steven

Steven,
I'll have to agree to disagree concerning the arrogance of Joe Ortiz. I felt as though he was talking down to me, as though I have never studied bible prophecy. I wrote a second comment to him, and I'm awaiting it to be posted along with his response. I won't back down or be bullied by him. He says the rapture is a myth, but clearly 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 makes it clear that the rapture(catching away) is true and will happen. God bless!

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

He said the rapture to heaven is a myth....

not

that the rapture is a myth..............

He clearly makes these points in his books and in some of the interviews I have posted on this site.......( if you search JOE ORTIZ on this site you will be able to find them.

(sometimes taking the time to understand what someone is sharing is better than trying to disprove them or trying to characterize them as arrogant instead of trying to assassinate their character find out what they believe and see if it lines up with scripture)

Mr. Ortiz, ( Robert Van Kampen ) and others have done very in depth studies from scriptures proving the Pre Tribulation point of view as false.

If you take the time to see this and are able to find 'holes' in their studies please feel free but to assassinate someone's character because they don't agree with you is not sound strategy.

Show the scripture errors they teach AFTER you study THEIR interpretations.

Like I said sometimes we just have to INVEST sometime into the bible, prayer to allow the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to all truth....

God Bless

Steven

++++++++++++

Note: in these scriptures was JESUS a bully?

Matt 16:23

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
KJV


Matt 12:34-35
34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
NKJV


Mark 8:33
33 But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."
NKJV



Matt 21:12-13

12 Jesus Cleanses the Temple

(Mark 11:15-19; Luke 19:45-48; John 2:13-22)

Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 And He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves.'"
NKJV

just something to think about.

=================================


Again,

I don't see Mr. Ortiz arrogance at all but I do see him sharing a different point of view from yours so maybe you just are reading into his comments arrogance?


That is my 2 cents.


God Bless...


Steven

This post is relevant to this thread so I will leave it for those that want to view this and comment.


Defining

Tribulation

Wrath

Hermeneutics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search


Hermeneutics (/hɜrməˈnjuːtɪks/), broadly, is the art of text interpretation. Traditional hermeneutics is the study of the interpretation of written texts, especially texts in the areas of literature, religion and law. A type of traditional hermeneutic is biblical hermeneutics which concerns the study of the interpretation of the Bible. In religious studies and social philosophy, hermeneutics is the study of the theory and practice of interpretation. Modern hermeneutics encompasses everything in the interpretative process including verbal and nonverbal forms of communication as well as prior aspects that affect communication, such as presuppositions, preunderstandings, the meaning and philosophy of language, and semiotics.

The terms exegesis and hermeneutics have been used interchangeably. However, hermeneutics is a more widely defined discipline of interpretation theory, because it includes the entire framework of the interpretive process, encompassing written, verbal, and nonverbal communication. Exegesis, on the other hand, focuses primarily on written text.[citation needed]

Philosophical hermeneutics refers primarily to the theory of knowledge initiated by Martin Heidegger and developed by Hans-Georg Gadamer in Truth and Method, and sometimes to the theories of Paul Ricoeur.

Hermeneutic consistency refers to analysis of texts for coherent explanation. A hermeneutic (singular) refers to one particular method or strand of interpretation. See also double hermeneutic.

Note: Before commenting on any posts please make sure you either watch or read each post in it’s entirety.

Before, making a comment, if you don’t have the time to watch or read fully please restrain from commenting.


When you do this it will help to reduce confusion.



For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


The Pre-wrath Rapture - The Rapture Puzzle Solved with Matthew 24






++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes
Link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzzFzQppwgs
Note: Before commenting on any posts please make sure you either watch or read each post in it’s entirety. Before, making a comment, if you don’t have the time to watch or read fully please restrain from commenting. When you do this it will help to reduce confusion.

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Newswatch Magazine - David J. Smith #219 The Zionist-Occult Connection


David J. Smith give's a detailed history of Zionism and how it came from the Occult.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com
I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic
Steven

Arlene Wrote:

FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES




Unless a Christian can totally understand who the "Israel of God" is as told to us in Galatians 6:16, it is NOT POSSIBLE to understand the Bible nor the scenario of the end-times.

The reason for this is FALSE TEACHING in most of today's churches, especially the ones to have the doctrine of Dispensationalism. I don't want to anger them, but it is the responsibility of every Christian to tell others when false doctrine is being put forth.

"Israel" throughout the Bible are those who believed in and followed God...this is OT and NT definition of "Israel". And the "land" that was to be possessed was Canaan, not Israel....Ex.16:35. Moses was not allowed to enter the land because of disobedience. Then Israel lost the land because of apostasy and disobedience as well. The next "promised land" is not on this present earth. And this promise is to "Israel" who are all believers in Jesus Christ.

The first "Jews" apostatized from being "Israel" and became followers of the false religion of Judaism. These are NOT God's chosen people, nor have they ever been. In order to understand this, one must study about these people who now occupy the land they, themselves, have named "Israel". This land is actually what the Bible calls "Edom" and they will not have a very pretty end...UNLESS they repent and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


This link explains things pretty well. Jesus was NEVER a "Jew". It is through false information that Christians declare this as a "fact"...but here are the ACTUAL FACTS:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/factindx.htm


Another piece that explains a little more:


> Is The Jews' "Chosen People" Masquerade Finally Over?
> Shortly after World War I, Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company, assembled a staff of experts in Detroit to conduct research on the European Jews who had been entering America in large numbers since the 1880's. Ford provided the staff with several million dollars for this research, and in 1923 he published the results in a four-volume work titled "THE INTERNATIONAL JEW." It was Henry Ford's conclusion that very few of these people who called themselves "Jews" were descendants of the Bible Israelites. Ford further proved that these Jews, using all sorts of crimes while under the cloak of being the Chosen People of the Bible, were rapidly taking economic and political control of America. In the religious field, Ford claimed THE JEWS HAD SECRETLY GAINED CONTROL OF MOST PROTESTANT SEMINARIES AND CHRISTIAN BOOK- PUBLISHING HOUSES and had been able to remove almost all criticism of Jews from Christian literature.
> In summing up his findings, Henry Ford stated, "The Jews are not the Chosen People, though practically the entire Church has succumbed to the propaganda which declares them to be so." Ford's book caused a furor for a few years but soon disappeared from colleges, universities, and public libraries and became unobtainable at any price. The Churches continued to teach "The Jews are God's Chosen People, Israel," and the (by then) Jewish-dominated news media began to refer to Jews always as Israelites. Anyone opposing the increasing Jewish control of the nations was immediately branded "anti-Semitic;" and Jewish dominated Seminaries taught new ministers to quote Genesis 12:1-3 and sternly warn their flocks that anyone speaking unfavorably of the Jews would be "cursed by God." Jewish control of American society, politics, and religions continued to increase.
> In 1951 retired U.S. Military Intelligence Officer, Col. John Beaty, published a scholarly 265-page book IRON CURTAIN OVER AMERICA. In it Col. Beaty gave overwhelming evidence this strange Race of Eastern European "Jews" were actually Khazar and Mongol Asiatics and had no racial ancestory in Israel at all.
> He then proved that by 1951 these "Jews" had a stranglehold on American politics, on Banking and Credit, on all sources of news, on the entertainment industry, on America's education system, and that they were the predominant race as judges, lawyers, doctors, and in organized crime. The Jewish news media refused to review the book, Jewish book dealers refused to handle it, Christian book stores ignored it, and only a few thousand copies were distributed. Most Americans never heard of IRON CURTAIN OVER AMERICA. Now, because of renewed interest, both THE INTERNATIONAL JEW (in an abridged edition) and IRON CURTAIN OVER AMERICA have been reprinted and are available. (See ordering information below).
> The latest, and perhaps the most succinct book on this subject, is ISRAEL'S $5 TRILLION DOLLAR SECRET by Col. Curtis B. Dall, former son-in-law of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and a personal acquaintance of many high officials in the U.S. Govern ment since the 1930's. Col. Dall lives and works in the Washington, D. C. area, and his book, published in 1977. Col. Dall proves again, from reliable sources, that the Jews are NOT Israelites. In fact, Col. Dall calls their masquerade as "Israel" the greatest "hoax" of the last centuries! It should be read by every non-Jew.

********************************

It is high time for those who have this false believe to repent of it and search the Bible for the real answers. Jesus is the "Truth"..John 14:6. And those who love Him will strive only for the truth. And the ironic thing about this is that Dispensationalists read the statement "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curseth thee:" (Gen.12:3) and sincerely believe that this refers to the "Jews" and the present "Nation of Israel".

God was referring to the "Seed" of Abraham (Jesus Christ and those who believe in Him) and NOT to the "seeds"(fleshy descendants) of Abraham. And again, these Christians are "blessing" a cursed nation (Israel..whose people actually hate Jesus Christ) and they don't understand that it is the people of the "body of Christ" who are to be "blessed"...not the Jews. See Gal.3:16.


Arlene

ARLENE WROTE:

Hi,

A Jew has to STOP being a "Jew" (believer in the Talmud and a hater of Jesus Christ) in order to BECOME a believer and a lover of Jesus Christ (a Christian). They are totally EXCLUSIVE of one another other.

Judaism, the RELIGION of the people who call themselves "Jews", is AGAINST everything that Jesus Christ was telling them. Most of the "Jews" didn't believe Him, and they had him KILLED. The "Jews" who DID believe Him GAVE UP their wrong beliefs (Judaism) became the FIRST Christians. And only then did the Gentiles (Nations) follow.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "Messianic Jew". It's like saying a person is an "Islamic Christian". A person is one or the other...but cannot possibly be BOTH. A person who believes in the religion of Islam must CONVERT to Christianity and give up Islam. It's the same with the Jews.

One cannot be a "Jew", who follows Judaism, and be a Christian at the same time. It's an oxymoron! God's blessings go to the "SEED" OF ABRAHAM (Jesus Christ and His followers, the Church) and NOT to ANYONE WHO HATES Jesus Christ, as the Jews (followers of Judaism) do.

IF you can't understand this, then tell me, who was the FIRST "JEW"?? It wasn't Abraham (he was a Chaldean), and it wasn't Moses, who was a Hebrew and then was raised as an Egyptian; and ultimately became an ISRAELITE because he believed, and followed God. Jacob/Israel was the FIRST "Israelite" in the Bible, and it was because he became a follower of God that he was renamed "Israel". HE WAS NOT A JEW! Or, if he was, then WHEN did he BECOME a Jew?

There is no such RACE as a Jew, or BOTH Jacob and Esau (twins) would BOTH be "Jews". Jacob became an Israelite, and Esau became an Edomite. They are enemies of each other....and NEITHER ARE "JEWS".

If you are insulted, like Kimberly (of 5 Doves) was, that the present-day "Jews" are pointed out, by me, to be HATERS of Jesus Christ, then I can't help you unless you understand what I am trying to point out. I am trying to show you the TRUTH.

Present day "Jews" (following Judaism) originate from the Khazars, and most of them do not have a drop of Semetic (Hebrew) blood in them!! Read the history of the Khazars. They are now living in the land called "Israel" (by the U.N. Mandate), and too many Christians are worshiping THEM instead of our Lord Jesus Christ, Whom most of those "Jews" (Khazars, actually) hate. An IDOL is anything or anyone who is loved more than Jesus Christ, Himself. By this, many Christians have become idol worshipers rather than lovers of Christ, alone....see Matthew 10:37.

Do I love anyone who hates Jesus Christ...NO!! We are told by our Lord Jesus to "love your enemies", and I think of them in that way. But my human nature cannot love someone who thinks such vile things about me, as a Christian, AND the God whom I love very deeply (JESUS CHRIST).

So, if we DO as our Lord told us to, we should be trying to CONVERT the "Jews" as much as we possibly can....from Judaism TO Christianity. We SHOULD NOT be telling them, and the rest of the world, that the JEWS will be saved by a means OTHER than salvation by "grace through faith" (Eph.2:8). Salvation ANY OTHER WAY is called "another gospel"...read Galatians 1:6,9

(vs.6)"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the GRACE of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL."

(vs.9)"As we said before, so say I now again, If ANY MAN preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCURSED."

Are you "ACCURSED" by thinking that the "Jews" can be saved in any other way??? We must preach the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" to the "Jews" just as we have to with any other unbeliever. But many Christians, instead, "fall at the feet of the Jews" as being "God's chosen people", when, IN FACT, they are NOT!! BELIEVERS ARE "GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE".

The Book of Galatians was written to CRITICIZE those who were turning from the "faith" that Jesus and the Apostles...and then Paul...preached!! The true GOSPEL is the one in Ephesians 2:8. The Jews were telling the new Christians that they had to add "works" and things of Judaism to their beliefs, like circumcision and the Feasts of God. Paul told them that this was "another gospel", and it was WRONG. All those things were only "shadows" of the spiritual truths, like "circumcision of the heart" instead of the male "member". Jesus Christ CHANGED IT ALL!!

And now, Christians like Kimberly of 5 Doves, Kevin, and you come out and tell me that I am the one who is wrong. Unbelievable!! You should STUDY the Book of Galatians over, and over, and over again. Actually, you should study the WHOLE bible and not just listen to what is told to you from the "pulpit". We are SUPPOSED to "search" to find out if what we are told is true....Acts 17:11. This is what we are TOLD TO DO, and most Christians do not. I do, and I find the TRUTH and try to tell others...and then, it is ME who gets criticized.....

I pray that the "blind" stop leading the "blind" so that ALL don't fall into the pit....Matthew 15:14.

Arlene

ARLENE WROTE: THE LAW OF FIRST MENTION IN THE BIBLE:

FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES




I see the phrase used by MANY Christians, "Jesus is/was a Jew", and I wonder where COMMON SENSE has gone more than my amazement at lack of bible knowledge! Where are they getting this idea from?

If you read the LINEAGE of Jesus Christ in the first chapter of Matthew, there are many names there that are from all kinds of people from harlots (Rahab) to Egyptians (Manasseh was from the daughter of Pharoah) and lots of others from all types of people, including Ruth....and none of them were "Jews".

The lineage of Jesus Christ on His Father's side was the Holy Spirit...and He was certainly not a "Jew".

Yes, the lineage of Jesus Christ came THROUGH the Tribe of Judah (none of them EVER called themselves "Jews"), but it started through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And Abraham was a Hebrew...and none of those Hebrews were Jewish or called themselves "Jews".

IF anyone thinks otherwise, I'd like scripture and verse, please!

The FIRST mention of "Israel" in the Bible is in Genesis 32:28. Nobody who has ever studied the Bible has missed the FACT of the "law of first mention". A word is DEFINED by the "first word" usage as it's definition. What was it? Jacob's name was changed to "Israel" when he CONVERTED from being a "supplanter and deceiver" (Jacob) to a FOLLOWER OF GOD (Israel).

NEVER, in the Bible, is the word "Israel" associated with being a flesh and blood "Jew". Paul tells us in Romans 2:29 that we become "spiritual Jews" when we have a circumcision of the heart. I truly believe that he was making fun of the Jews when he said this. Few, if none, of the "Jews" in the nation of Israel today have had this "spiritual" circumcision, and therefore, they are not considered to even be Jews in God's eyes. God turned the tables around in more ways than one. He has a very good sense of humor, if you can see it. Those who HATE Christians (Jews) are now called "Gentiles" in God's eyes...and those who follow Jesus Christ are considered to be "spiritual Jews" by God. It is amusing!

I think God is watching all of us and appreciating this irony.

Which one of us, including me, even KNOWS who are descendents of any of the Tribes of Israel today. They have been dispersed for over 2,000 years!! Have none of you read Amos 9:9....?

"For; lo, I will command, and I will SIFT the house of Israel AMONG ALL NATIONS as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth."

So, where are they now?? Only God knows. I might be one, or Steven might be one...or Gerlinda, or Kevin, or Mahmoud Ahmadinijad!!! NOBODY KNOWS!

But, one thing I can say as ABSOLUTE TRUTH....JESUS IS NOT, NOR EVER HAS BEEN A "JEW" OR FOLLOWED THE RELIGION OF THE JEWS.

Think about it!! What does your common sense tell you?

Arlene

Arlene Wrote:

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FOR FAIR USE AND EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES



Why are so many of us being so very foolish? And not only foolish, but very childish as well. We are supposed to be MATURE, or being in the process of maturing to what God wants us to be. Just recently a "Christian" wrote that something was offensive to him/her and, because of this, they would never go to that site again.

This is what I would expect to hear in a playground, but not with people who say they are "mature" followers of Jesus Christ.


What does scripture say about this? I Cor.14:20-21..."Brethren, be not CHILDREN in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be MEN. (vs.21) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages from all over the world)and other lips(from other people) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not HEAR me, saith the Lord."

Jeremiah 5:21 comes to mind. "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:"

Jeremiah 5:31.."The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end therof?


As MEN (and I include both genders in this term) we are ALL less than perfectly correct, and we never will be until we go through the WHOLE process of JUSTIFICATION (initial salvation), SANCTIFICATION (gradual growth to Christian maturity), and GLORIFICATION (when we finally go from this world to the Kingdom of God). Until then, we are ALL wrong in one way or another.

The only absolute truth comes to us through the Bible through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the Word (John 1:1), and He, through our Bibles, gives us the truth. Nothing, or nobody, outside of those things can be relied upon for absolute, 100% truth......no denominations, no Pastors, no parents, no friends, etc. What can't be proven by the Bible, is SPECULATION.

What does anyone know about the actual lives of those who tell us what the Bible is supposed to say? We know only what we are told by them, or we know very little at all. With whom do we trust our eternal souls? There is NOBODY on this earth, including those who have died, who have EVER had absolute truth EXCEPT our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think my story is similar to any other Christian who has gone through life and come to Christianity. Why should anyone listen to me? I haven't a clue!! But, I've always liked passing on what I've learned to others...so maybe God has given me the spiritual "gift" of a teacher (I Cor.chapter 12). I don't know this for sure, but I love to study and write about it...or pass it on to others. If I don't, I feel incomplete inside myself.

For the last 70 years, I've been through almost anything a person can go through...pain, joy, suffering, death of loved ones, divorce, loss of children, loss of friends, rejection, elation, success in career, shame, loss of self respect, wealth, loneliness, etc. I've been through ALL of those things. There are only two things that I can think of which I have never suffered through....poverty or hunger. I've always been blessed with a roof over my head and food to eat. God has always been with me, even when I didn't realize or understand it.

As I contemplate my beliefs through life, I have sincerely followed many things other people have taught, and I have done a thorough study on all of them including Theosophy, Buddhism, New Age, and almost all of the different church doctrines. But the doctrine I believed for most of my years as a Christian was "dispensationalism" under the tutelage of Dr. Peter Ruckman. I've read every thing that gentleman wrote...and believed every word, even as "rough and gruff" as he was....I loved him and his way of thinking.

So, today, when I refute "dispensationalism", and any and all of the other church denominational beliefs, which only cause divisiveness amongst the "one body of Christ", I know what I'm talking about. I have learned this by REALLY studying the Bible by myself and UNDERSTANDING what the Holy Spirit was teaching to me. I have FINALLY realized that the "Jews" were not God's "chosen people" because ISRAEL is, and always has been!! Israel is the name God gave to all believers/followers of God, and not just to a specific race of people....all through the Bible.


John 3:16-18..."For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (vs17) For God sent not his Son into the WORLD to condemn the world; but that the WORLD though Him might he saved."

But, it's verse 18 that brings out a major truth..."He that believeth on Him is not condemned (Israel/believers): but he that BELIEVETH NOT (people called "Jews" follow Judaism and hate Jesus Christ)is CONDEMNED already, because he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."


The "bottom line" of all this is that NONE of us have the total truth. There are PIECES of the truth coming from multiple sources, and we just have to have the DISCERNMENT to pick out the ones which have a true, biblical basis....and THROW OUT THE REST!

By refusing to listen to ANYONE who does not follow the same doctrine that you do is just the same as "throwing the baby out with the bath water". That's pure ignorance (IGNOREance]!! NOBODY, except Jesus Christ, has ever had perfect knowledge of God and His purposes.

Dr.Peter Ruckman taught me valuable lessons, as did Chuck Missler, I.D.E.Ice, Charles Stanley, Rob Skiba, Steve Quayle, Stan Deyo, Billy Graham, J.R.Church and Gary Stearman, David Pack, M.J.Agee, J. Preston Eby, and Dr. Lorraine Day...plus hundreds of others from whom I have heard or read literature. Do I believe the TOTAL doctrines of ANY OF THEM? Absolutely not! But I have sifted through ALL the information and retained what I felt was the truth in the Bible.

Shouldn't we all do everything we can to learn as much as possible about the truth WITHOUT listening to just ONE MAN? God has put many of His "pieces" in different places, and through different people. The "one body" is made up of many people...and it's up to us to sift out the truth, and not just from ONE denomination or ONE person.

Arlene

Thanks Steven for posting this!! It is just so encouraging how on the same page so many of His followers are being lead to be!! So many of us are saying the exact same things and receiving the exact same message from the Holy Spirit!! I put on three posts today before reading all the others, and finding this from Joe Ortiz was such a blessing, as it confirms why I was led to write those posts.

It surely seems that the Kingdom of Darkness has invaded the modern day churches via these false prophets that are making millions on what the world wants to hear. Do they have any idea about their own doom? It is bad enough that they believe their own fairytales, but to entice so many others to do the same, and make money off it at the same time is almost the lowest of low!! Jesus says that it would have been better for them never to have been born!!

And, truthfully it has become difficult to forgive them as they know not what they do, because it appears that they do know what they do. The greatest telling sign of their deliberate disregard for the Truth of the Word, is that they refuse to hear it. They are purposely willing themselves not to see by rejecting the biblically supported studies and books of others.

I am so honored to be addressing the same subjects that Joe Ortiz is addressing, as being led to expose these false doctrines. He is my hero, as he is doing so on a much larger and difficult scale!

Everyone who has any doubt about the validity of what this man is saying must read his books. So many crucial issues are addressed and made plain. It is time to start believing as the disciples of old did, and to share the GOSPEL OF TRUTH.

Bless you Steven for providing the platform where these truths can be put forth and shared.

Agape!
Patti C.

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