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Gino (6 March 2013)
"RE: Chondra M: 03.04.13: You asked an excellent question!!"


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Chondra,

You had written:
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2013/chondram34.htm


“Would God allow that to happen for hundreds of years, for His word to be mistranslated?

If we say a “prophet” of God has to be 100% correct, 100% of the time, why do we not demand this from our own (translated) Bible or is it already correct?”



That is an excellent question!!



Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.



The LORD promised to preserve the words of the LORD for forever.



Psalm 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.



The word of God is not going to change, it is settled in heaven forever.



Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.



The LORD’s words shall not pass away.



I Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.



The word of God lives & abides forever, and his word endures forever.



Would the LORD keep the real deep things & nuggets of the of the word of God reserved only for those that know the ancient languages?

Do we always need to go to someone who knows ancient Hebrew & ancient Greek (not modern day Hebrew & Greek)?

Are we, who do not know the ancient languages, but simply have the scriptures and the Holy Ghost, at a disadvantage?

Are the scriptures themselves, and the indwelling Holy Ghost, insufficient to teach us fully?

It would seem to me that it would be more in character with the LORD to have it the other way around:



Luke 10:21 ¶ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.



That is why some of us are considered to be super-whacky, fringe-element, King-James-Only, nut-jobs.

Present company included.

If I will lose rewards at the judgment seat of Christ, because I believed that he perfectly, preserved his word, and I have a copy of it:

well, at least I’ve trusted him for every jot and tittle,

at least I believe that he has protected me from those who say, “Yea, hath God said?”

at least he has protected me from those who want to convince me not to trust the book 100.000%,

at least I believe it, even if I cannot debate the doctors of the law and the masters of the ancient languages,

my faith in that book didn’t come from education or from my ability to defend it,

that is why I absolutely do not mind being considered a King-James-Only nut-job by my brethren.

I once considered whether I wanted to remain someone who did not believe that the LORD had preserved his word perfectly,

or whether I would join the fringe-element, and know that I held a copy of that perfect, pure word of God in my hand.

If I was to believe that he preserved his word, then where is it?

Is it buried?

Well, if the incarnate Word of God did not stay buried, then why would the written word of God stay buried for centuries (i.e. in a cave by the Dead Sea)?

Is it only in heaven?



Deuteronomy 30:11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.



Then where is it?

Well I believe that it is here and I have a copy.

To some, it is a ludicrous to believe what I believe, as believing that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, or that the LORD created everything in six real days.

I believe the literal six days, I believe the literal account about Jonah, I believe that he preserved his word perfectly, and that I have a copy.

It all boils down to a simple choice of believing it or not, not by having it proved or disproved.

So if I lose rewards for trusting the LORD to preserve his word, then at least it has been joyous believing it.



Thank you,

Gino

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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Steven

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Greg (8 March 2013)
"To Chondra from 3.04.13"

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Hi Chondra,

Blessings on you in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! That is a very great question that you asked. If I may give my imput concerning translating the word of God into English: when we take into account all the versions in English, and then to take into account that certain words are translated differently in the English versions (even some phrases in certain verses are add or subtract from one another, i.e. Rom. 8: 1; look up the NIV and compare this verse to KJV), thus giving an entire different meaning or conotation (i.e. the word for "falling away" in 2 Thess. 2: 3), we must have the Holy Spirit to discern, which discernment is of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 2: 10-14), and ask, does that translation, or rendering of the word lead one to total repentance of sin, or does it leave us to believe that we're something we are not? The reason I say this is because the Apostle Paul said to the elders at the church of Ephesus, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20: 29-30). If we take Paul at his word, which I believe he had the Holy spirit, then we must conclude that corruption of the word of God (understanding the true gospel and doctrine of Christ) would occur and be spread after his departure. Therefore, after over 1,950 years has transpired since he said those words, we would have to say that the true understanding of His gospel and the doctrine of Christ would be corrupted from the original. But does that mean those today would not be able to know the true meaning of His gospel as Paul understood it in his lifetime? Absolutely not, for just as Gino said in his response post to your post that referencing Psalm 12: 7.
The sad truth though is this, that since Paul's departure the balance scale of true believers to false believers (those who hold the word of God and His gospel and doctrine incorrectly) would increase, as His word (gospel) would become corrupted over time, almost to a point where it would become unrecognizable. And to prove this point just look at the condition of the church today, as at the beginning of the Acts church they all had things common, compared today we have denominationalism, and contentions over the word, even as sin is rampant within the churches. The proof of a true Christian is not in word, but in power, "for the kingdom of God is not in word but in power
(1 Cor. 4: 20).
The devil is subtle and cunning, and we should know that one of his first attacks would be against His written word to draw confusion and division amongst believers so to argue over the use of a word and its meaning. A perfect example of this is the very world and passage in scripture that you brought up concerning the word apostasia in 2 Thess. 2: 3. The argument is does this mean a falling away from the faith or does it mean a departure as in a Rapture?
What the Lord has convicted me of concerning this passage is that it is clearly speaking of a forsaking of the true gospel and doctrine of Christ, and not a Rapture. A Rapture is coming, but this passage of scripture is not about the Rapture, rather is concerns itself why the man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed when he is. So if it is permissible that I share what I know is the truth concerning this passage, as I know I have the Holy Spirit teaching me, this is what He has taught me concerning 2 Thess. 2: 1-12 (KJV):

Verse one: concerns itself with the entire body of Christ in the air (those saints who have died in Christ and those saints still living on the earth who have survived the great tribulation, where they are caught up in the air just prior to His wrath).

Verse two: this verse is understood that we are not to be troubled in mind or in spirit, but can you imagine the fear in those that thought they were to be recipients of His wrath (the day of Christ). We are not to fear them that can kill the body, but rather Him that has power to throw both body and soul into hell. Yes, I say, fear Him (Matt. 10: 2 .

Verse three: we are exhorted to not allow anyone to deceive us by any means, as "that day" (the day of Christ; His wrath) will not come, except there come a falling away (forsaking/departing from the true gospel and doctrine of Christ) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition (this is telling us that when the churches in Christendom have come to the full in believing the corrupted gospel, which Paul said would happen, having forsaken or departed from the true gospel message, having turned the truth into a lie, then when God determines that it has come to the full, then that man of sin, the son of perdition would be revealed, as he was on Jan. 20, 2009.

Verse four: I personally believe this to mean that Obama usurps himself to be like when Jesus came into Jerusalem; not that Obama will actually declare to be God himself as he sits in a physical temple, but taking into consideration his pompous attitude doesn't leave out that option either.

Verse five: This verse is understood.

Verse six: What is the very reason why that man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed? Is it not because the church has come to the full in not believing the true gospel? Therefore, what has been restraining in keeping that man of sin from being revealed is the true believers in the church; those that believe in the true gospel and doctrine of Christ (James 1: 22). The true believers in Christ have been the ones restraining him from being revealed, but because the balance of true believers have been outweighed with false believers, then when it gets too saturated with false believers, God would reveal that man of sin, the son of perdition, as he was in 2009.

Verse seven: the mystery of iniquity speaks of the all encompassing works of evil initiated by secret societies, organizations, companies, government, etc. to bring in their NWO agenda, and God is allowing it in order to bring in His kingdom of righteousness. God will allow this evil to continue (in other words He allows it to continue in an organized fashion) until he (Michael the archangel who fights for His people is removed, thus no longer fighting or restraining him; Dan. 12: 1).

Verse eight: When Michael removes himself, then that Wicked (Satan incarnated in Obama) will be revealed, which won't happen until the end of days (Christians will have been removed before he is revealed) at Armageddon when Christ comes and comsumes him with the spirit of His mouth, and destroys with the brightness of His coming.

Verse nine: When scripture says, "Even him," this is confirming the man of sin, the son of perdition (Obama) is that person whose works comes after (from) Satan with all power, signs, and lying wonders. Therefore, since he (Obama) is identified we know not to trust him.

Verse ten: we are not to trust Obama because we know from where he gets his inspiration. But notice why he deceives: it's because "they received not love of the truth that they might be saved" (this all goes back to the true gospel message that the Apostle Paul said would be corrupted after his departure). This verse is not just speaking of the ungodly (those who never confessed their sins to repent from them, having invited Jesus Christ into their hearts to convert them) but more to them that have forsaken/departed from the faith, having left their first love, believing themselves to be something when they are nothing.

Verse eleven: those who will not believe the truth of the gospel, which gospel is the Good News that He has come to SET us free from our sins, which gospel is substantiated by His doctrine, as His doctrine teaches us how to be set free from the sins that lead to death, which sins are found in 1 Cor. 6: 9-10 and Gal. 5: 19-21, that if anyone (believer or not) does, commit, practice, or continue in these things will not inherit the kingdom of God, that if they will not believe the truth to be set free from their sins, then God will send upon them a delusion that they should believe a lie.
It is my understanding in being taught by Him that "a lie" refers to, not just believing that extra terrestial aliens are our creators (which I don't deny they exist), but more to believing a perverted gospel (there is more than just confessing our sins and inviting Christ into our hearts, as an actual conversion of the heart must take place; James 1: 22; Matt. 18: 3), therefore, if we name the name of Christ, yet we do not keep our sinful nature in subjection and under our feet at all times (1 Cor. 9: 27; 1 Cor. 10: 13) then we need to re-examine ourselves to see if we really are in the faith, as the born again Christian "keeps himself, and the wicked one touches them not" (1 Jn. 5: 1 . God is training us to build up our inner man or inner woman through resisting temptation so to be able to stand in the evil day, "and having done all to stand" (Eph. 6: 13). Those who believe in a corrupted and perverted gospel, as is prevelent today, most likely will not endure what is coming, but rather will compromose their faith, as God said, He will send upon them "strong delusion that they should believe a lie."

Verse twelve: this verse should be clearly understood.

Let us encourage, exhort, and edify one another to preserve ourselves holy in soul, spirit, and body (1 Thess. 5: 23) all the way to the day of Christ!

In the love of Christ,
Greg



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

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I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2013/marilyna311-1.htm
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Marilyn Agee (11 March 2013)
"Greg, To Chondra : FALLING AWAY OR DEPARTING IN 2 TH 2:3"









++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

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