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The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 



While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)



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Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hello everyone,

First a bit about me:

I used to believe in the 'Pre-Tribulation' rapture myself, because frankly a few preachers sold me on it. Thinking back to when I first became a Christian I never expected a secret 'pre-trib rapture' from reading the New Testament. I actually expected to go through tribulation because God has instructed us that we will.

No, this idea of a pre-trib rapture didn't come into my mind until a few pastors that graduated Seminary, big time mega-preachers & 'so-called internet prophets' kept saying that a rapture will happen before anything bad.

Boy have I learned my lesson! Read the scriptures for yourself and make up your own mind. I don't think anyone first becomes a Christian, reads the word of God and says 'Hey I'm never going to suffer tribulation!' In fact just the opposite is true. We are instructed that we ARE going to suffer tribulation!

Looking back with a discerning mind I was tricked. Period.

I challenge anyone to watch this documentary and still believe in it. This movie will cover the Genesis of the 'Pre-Trib' doctrine as well as it's spread. It will also thoroughly debunk every single aspect of it using scripture & early church teachings.

This video is truly for your own good. Prepare now, because there will be tribulation. There will be martyrs. They will make war with the saints, and they will overcome them. Millions of Christians are going to be slaughtered and turn their hearts from God because they refused to prepare and still believe in this 'Pre-Tribulation' rapture.

If you are a die-hard pre-tribber, like I was tricked into being, then watch this entire movie. I doubt you will come through it and look at the pre-trib doctrine the same way.

In this hard-hitting documentary, film-maker Paul Wittenberger (What in the World are They Spraying? and The Great Culling), Pastor Steven L Anderson, Pastor Roger Jimenez, and creation scientist Dr. Kent Hovind, prove from the King James Bible that the rapture will take place AFTER THE TRIBULATION but before God pours out his wrath upon this earth. They also expose Satan's plans for a global government and new world order.

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Within minutes of posting this two hour documentary on another Christian forum I got this response:

You have been decieved by this false doctrine. Here is proof that it is Pre Trib and that this lie Post Trib is a lie
Firstly, it says in Matthew 24:38
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noa entered into the ark"

So when the bowls of Gods wrath comes onto the earth, when plagues hit, when martial law, Illuminati, and the one world gov. comes in, and the anti Christ and the mark of the beast comes in, how are people going to be marrying, partying etc.

Also if no one knows the day nor the hour, if we were to go through the tribulation, we would all know when the second coming of Christ would be. How? Well, we simple count 7 years from that day that the tribulation began and the anti christ showed up from that day. So how is he coming like a thief in the night?

Also what about the judgement to believes? Is Jesus going to come back for armaggaden, but have to hold off and judge us, then turn us around to go back?

Also in 1 Thessalonians 5:9

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

Hmmm, so as far as appointing us to wrath, how is God not appointed us to wrath by leaving us behind for 7 years of hell on earth, every night and day when havoc is on earth, and comets and waters turning blood and when the bowls of wrath are being poured out, every thing on fire, are we not being appointed to wrath?

Also, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15- 17 says, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, wit the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets look in Revelation 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, and white and clean.

Now when Jesus comes back in armagadden to destroy all of evil and wicked man, notice also the armies of heaven clothed in fine linen, he doesn't mention Angels. If Angels were coming, he would have said the angels were coming, but he didn't. Those were the saints who were rapture. If not, then who was he coming down with? Angels have always been defined as angels. There is no way he could come down with him unless they were already in heaven, and were judged.

If you want more information about how the Bible makes it so clear, please say

Such ignorance of scripture and lack of common sense.


Refusal to even view a simple documentary that might challenge them. Not only that I now lack common sense for questioning them!

The church is doomed.

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hi Chris,

ummmm just remember Jesus was right in front of the sanhidrin, saduccess, and pharisees and they didn't recognize or chose not to recognize to acknowledge JESUS as the MESSIAH.

So why would you expect anyone to really 'watch' a video that is ONLY ONE hour long to maybe....just maybe see another view 'other' than ONE they are STEADFAST in believing?

You can bring a horse to water but you CAN'T make them watch the VIDEOS.

Everyone has an excuse why they WILL not or WON'T watch the video or READ the SCRIPTURES for themselves....THEIR minds are made UP and they don't seek God with ALL their HEART...

Why NOT watch the video?

If it is WRONG point out all the biblical errors?

Prove that the PRE TRIBULATION rapture is NOT false....and tell it to the people in CHINA, AFRICA........and soon to be AMERICA ...who will endure tribulation.


but...but..but I don't have time or I"m too busy or......( fill in the blank )

Chris, be encouraged:
Amos 3:7

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Prov 25:2

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

All you can do is pray that they will truly seek truth and ask the HOLY SPIRIT to lead them in the truth .......then let God answer your prayer.

John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
color is for emphasis....

Do not grow weary in doing good!

God Bless



Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

I think I must admit I myself is either pretrib or prewrath but certainly NOT postrib.

I believe that God historically never punishes the righteous together with the wicked.
However, temptation is for everybody. Tribulation in my definition is more like the mass destruction of the earth either like what happened to Sodom / Gomorrah or what happened to the earth when Noach escaped from the flood.

Tribulation is more like mass destruction, not small here small there, some here some there, it is massive destructions, annihilation of people not by men but by supernatural forces (i.e. nature). Therefore it can be related to either pretrib or prewrath and I am no difference and no preference between those two.

So every side has a ground here but the most important thing is NOT about whether we are pretrib, midtrib, prewrath or postrib BUT whether we are really born again Christians.

I am most likely now with Scribe to Ellijah ...with pretrib/prewrath ... I'm not sure yet... :)

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hi Gimel,

There is a difference between



WRATH of God...

I'm not with ANYONE but what GOD through the bible and the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT teaches me......do I have all the answers?...no.......

but I do not FOLLOW man...I follow the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT.....I pray for wisdom, couraging ... understanding......that I will not be deceived and that God will lead me to ALL TRUTH through the HOLY SPIRIT.......

I do have many videos that I have posted on this site over and over.....why?

Because I pray to God how can I feed the sheep?

God repeats things in the bible for a reason.....

So I repost to give the opportunity to share what God shows me to others.....

Chris, posted a video that is TWO HOURS long.....it is very good and appears scripturally sound but the TITLE will scare some people away from 'watching' it because they do not want to know the TRUTH they want to have 'itching' ears and will avoid sound doctrine.

I am posting the VIDEO again for convenience here....I encourage you to take the time even if you can't do it immediately to watch the video.

Why should you do this? because I ask you to?...no....

I recommend it to you because as a brother in Christ I pray you will watch it so if it blesses you ( I believe it will ) it will also help you to be ready for the 'tribulation' that is coming quickly to AMERICA and you will NOT be caught unaware.

Everyone has the freedom to 'watch' the video or not....I pray you will choose to watch it and let me know your thoughts IF you do watch it....if not that is your choice and I will have done my part to bless you.

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


Keep looking up!

God Bless



Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Thanks Steven, I have watched the movie and several things I can draw from it. The things that I think the most important thing of the discussion is:

1. The length of tribulation: Some argue 7 years as the whole 70th weeks of Daniel as the tribulation period. The rapture according to this is pretrib, midtrib or postrib. Pretrib: before all the 7 years, midtrib: before the last great 3.5 years and postrib: after the 7 years or end of 7 years. Sometime in this light, prewrath can be thought too, as in 7 years either near the beginning, near the middle or after 6th seal but certainly before the 6th seal and possibly near the mid of 7 years.

Some others argue tribulation is simply 3.5 years or 42 months or 1260 days. In this light, still there are 3 categories: pretrib, prewrath and postrib. Pretrib: before the 3.5 years, prewrath: sometime in 3.5 years at the 6th seal, and postrib: the end of tribulation, end of 3.5 years. No midtrib in this light.

2. All believe that THE AC will come and now many ACs (Spirit of AC) have come on earth.

3. One interesting thing that I notice but well used but any oppositions from pretrib or midtrib or prewrath or postrib is that when the AC comes the other group (either one of those pretrib, midtrib, prewrath, postrib) will think that he is the AC. According to all what I have learned, none of them will recognize the AC and the Messiah except Israel, the Jews in general. Now the scenarios are different under those thoughts though. But all will refuse to recognize the AC as the Messiah except the Jews.
Pretrib: claims that when they see somebody claims as the Messiah and they haven't be caught up yet in the heaven, certainly that person is not the Messiah!!! And if this what happens, they certainly think that the tribulation maybe only 3.5 years instead of 7 years. However, the strong belief is that the rapture must have already happened when the AC is revealed!!!

Midtrib: claims that the AC will be revealed but still as the nice person NOT YET as the cruel person until when his true identity is revealed then the great tribulation begins, the rapture happens.

Prewrath: more or less like Midtrib except the rapture before the 6th seal and not necesarily at the mid of 7 years. Some variation in this light, that is prewrath which is more like the pretrib but trib with only 3.5 years length.

Postrib: claims all 7 years must be gone through. Some variations in it that near the end of 7 years after the 6th seal, the rapture will happen. Instead of 2 comings only 1 coming, the rapture of the church.

I am again more or less in the position between Pretrib - Prewrath just simply because I am not sure whether the tribulation will be 7 years in length or just 3.5 years in length. Looking at the Mark Blitz's finding of the tetrad in 2014/2015 has put me either in either pretrib or prewrath position.
Some believe we are already in tribulation since 2009 which put 3.5 years sometime in 2013/2014 as the start of the last great tribulation.
Some others believe we have not entered the tribulation yet but most likely will enter the tribulation 7 years period BEFORE the tetrad, that is this year 2013/2014.
Connecting with a Rabbi in 12th century's prophecy which put 2017 as the important crucial year then I think both still has grounds. Either we reach 2017 as the mid 3.5 years or the end of 3.5 years, where the rapture might happen between the periods of 2013/2014 to 2017/2018!!
Regarding tribulation itself, many of my families are in tribulation NOW by the persecution from Islamic forces and also in the past. But the tribulation is still not the great tribulation or maybe NOT yet the in the tribulation 7 years. So yes, since several decades ago, our families have faced "tribulation" some even have been killed because of the fanatics moeslem, but I keep my real identity in secret!!! However, that doesn't put me to believe in the postrib because I believe that we have to go much tribulations in this world!!!
I believe Jesus our savior doesn't really think of pretrib, midtrib, or postrib or prewrath just because all of them will recognize the AC easily if he is revealed and will refuse to bow down to him ..... and all of them believe they should also go much tribulations!!!

So blessings to all of you ....in Yahshua Ha Mashiach, Our Groom who will come to take us home to enter the marriage of the Lamb fulfilling what he promised to the Jews and all of us!!!

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Just a video from the opposite side :)

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hi Gimel,

Excellent capsulation of different Tribulations positions it could be 'tweaked' or 'fine tuned' but very well done!

About Perry Stone, I used to have his videos on this site but as I did more studying I found that Perry Stone, brings alot of Roman Catholic mysticisms veiled in his teachings. Also Perry Stone about a year ago was very pro active to not allow ANYONE to post his videos because he 'owned' the rights and must have felt he was 'losing' potential revenue for 'his' ministry.

I removed all of his videos from my site that I could find because of the Roman Catholicism and necromancy, and my belief of false tongue jargon ( 'shabala'? when praying ) supposed to be a man filled with the 'HOLY SPIRIT'

I also believe in 'freely giving ' so for him to require no one is allowed to post his videos lost alot of 'appeal' for me to promote him or his videos.

If you post his videos I have no problem with this just make sure you preface with
For Fair Use Information Educational and Discussion Purposes

or some variation of that when posting a video or article,commentary if at all posssible.

Gimel, back to the Tribulation/Rapture position I want to thank you for encapsulating the positions it helps to better understand the different positions for everyone reading this thread.

Another point is that most people 'lump' Tribulation with Wrath of God but they are TWO distinct things.

Tribulations: We will endure.

Wrath: We are not appointed to WRATH of God.

Thank you again for posting commenting and sharing on this site.

This site does not get too many posts but sometimes up to 6000 ( six thousand visitors ) a week when alot of bible prophecy events are taking place and posts are made to that effect!

FACEBOOK seems to be more interactive I receive about 50-75 posts daily with brief comments or just 'thumbs up' for the posts but alot more views per posts on facebook! ( varying from 30-200plus views on a post in FACEBOOK )

God Bless you Gimel.



Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

This is an interesting discussion, but let's take it lightly. Let's take it like a Joke. The Joke is on us.

We have men and women opposing each other in these debates. Satan is the opposer. Somehow now we find ourselves in two camps fighting between ourselves. Whether it is in the Pretribulation/Posttribulation debate or the Creation/Evolution debate. We are opposing each other.

So let's just look for the truth and keep an open mind in the process. Knowing this first that nobody knows everything and we are more like earthworms trying to tell each other what the sun looks like. It's hot. But we can't see it. So to lighten things up...

What is the sequel to LEFT BEHIND ? Well it would be ... most likely.... RIGHT BEHIND.
Now when we put the two BEHINDS together what do we get ? A complete ass.
That's what this discussion, these debates have made out of us. Complete and total asses !

So let's try to work as cooperative beings together working in love to find more truth. Not "the truth" or "our truth". We can project "our truth" and try to force others to accept it. We can project "the truth" but only the Messiah claimed to be "The Truth" (saying "I am the way, the truth and the life.") So let's look into what he had to say and follow THE WAY and through THE TRUTH have THE LIFE he was talking about. I do not know what the way, the truth or the life is, but inside we know and are told if we have a connection with God. I do not know. I am told. You see, it comes from God. Everything good and perfect comes from above from the father of lights. So then let your light so shine.

Those who debate and argue may be standing away from the light. To me, there are two types of debate: a logical, sincere debate where we honestly project logical arguments in search for the truth (knowing that we may not fully know truth). Both people are on the same side looking for the truth. The other type of debate is dangerous: where both sides (think they) know the truth and are trying to show they are right and the other side is wrong. Folks, let's be on the same side, at least.

What are the scriptures saying about the return of Christ ? Not, how can we fit the scriptures into one or the other of our own ideas (or somebody else's idea that we have adopted) supporting a private interpretation of prophecy (2 Peter 1:20) which itself is against scripture. Prophecy does not work that way. No prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. That means to me that scriptures say what they say; we can piece them together and see how each statement of truth may come together to paint a more complete picture.

Folks, we have already been left behind by getting sidetracked in debates where we have already concluded we are right. Do not accept that you are right. Accept that we can be made right but are not yet. Think about that.

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Thanks Steven, somewhere I read about Israel as the time marker of the prophecy! and Jerusalem is indeed the most important time marker in human history.

Since 1967, a new generation of people have been born who like to dance and worship from their heart. Together with this, the revival of the church has come but not yet to its fullness. Several famous prophecies have been out regarding big revival in Africa, Southeast Asia, even China before reaching back to Jerusalem. Now, I saw a movie/video few days back how China would be soon the biggest Christian population (not nation) in the world outpacing the US. Currently more than 150 million up to 200 million Christian underground in China and still increasing. One of the most important fact is now these Christian Chinese now evangelize to Jerusalem Israel, spreading the word of God.

I remember Steven you posted several videos of the prewrath and I watched them and I believe that is true and that's why I am in between pretrib and prewrath right now. I have watched the video in this thread but not as convincing as pretrib/prewrath theory especially regarding 3.5 years great tribulation. It is so appealing that the Revelatiion said only 42 months, 3,5 years and not 7 years tribulation...

So anyway thanks for posting the videos from many angles, we can learn what other positions are and take stand based on what you think the best.

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hi Dave,

Thanks again for posting.

If I was asked what I believe in regard to the TRIBULATION and TIMELINES my response would be

I DON'T know but I do enjoy the 'WATCH" factor and the leading ( prompting ) by the HOLY SPIRIT to lead me to all truth.

So I'm not DEAD SET on any particular teaching or interpretation but I do enjoy discussing the different positions and 'fine tuning' if you will the date and time of the 'rapture'.

So if for whatever reason I lean one way or the other it is to try to give balance to the discussion.

I prefer a literal interpretation of scripture first and have yet to see a literal example of a rapture for the church before the tribulation.

If you have one please share I would definitely be interested to see it.

So far the pre wrath ( after the tribulation ) appears literally in the bible.

If you have scripture that is pointing to a pre tribulation rapture I would be open to read it so far I have not found one.

Now two points.

ONE: We should always try to love one another this is part of the greatest commandment.

Two: discussing the rapture and tribulation are completely different.

If I appear to be arguing to you that is not the case. I'm discussing different positions of the rapture and 'watching' just as we are commanded to do.

This site as part of it's mission is to 'watch' for the rapture and 2nd coming of our LORD and Saviour JESUS CHRIST.

So if you think we are arguing at least from my standpoint I am not.

Thanks again Dave for posting and commenting on this site.

God Bless



Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Well, the point is that:

Whatever the scriptures say, they say. Anything else is not what the scriptures say.

Debate can be positively or negatively intentioned. If we are searching for the truth, great.

To search for the truth, we need to look deeply and then take another look, realize we can be fooled, consider the facts and ask ourselves whether these things are really the facts, and be enlightened by the spirit of God. That's the spirit of humility.

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hi Dave,

I agree so do you have a viewpoint, timeline about the 'subject' in the title?

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary?

What do the scriptures show you?

I am asking with curiousity and humility not combative. I would love to know what your thoughts are on this subject.

God Bless



Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary


My thought is that it is a very complex topic, but also simple. If we knew in detail what would happen, it would seem simple. Many details are not clear to us about what will happen. I do not claim to have the gift of prophecy to interpret prophecy. But I do have a logical mind.

While I was growing up, I was exposed to teaching that there would be a rapture and we were thinking that it would be before a period of tribulation. But when I was a young teenager, we heard a visiting preacher say "you are not appointed to wrath" as he was quoting one verse (ONE VERSE) and used that statement to suggest that we would not go through the tribulation. Well, that "christians" would not go through the tribulation.

My brother and I turned to each other and said something like "that's a big stretch". Hey, we were smart kids and able to think logically at that time. That was my first Red Flag concerning this issue.

I do not like to take on a story line of the end times. The bible does not tell us such a story directly. It does tell us many things. We can take each of those things and compare them, combine a few and see how they might be linked together. But I NEVER can say that I have figured out what is described as happening by myself.

So I would only like to project what it says -- individual statements and those that are linked together. It is a mystery. But there may be some who have been shown prophetically what will happen, a storyline, which encompasses and is consistent with all the individual prophetic statements of the end times.

I can share some points I see, if interested, but will not come to any complete conclusive storyline --- unless it is revealed to me. We are on the path of discovery and need to remain open. When we hear a true prophet speak about it, we will know. But, on the other hand, if we hear someone speak on it and think we have heard the truth, remember, be careful to recognize that we might be deceived. So let's not tie our selves up and paint ourselves into a corner. We are on a journey of learning. Without God, we will just go down a path of destruction and deception.

------------------------- I am including Steven's question for context, below, since it did not show up ------------

Feb 4, 2013 - 3:27PM
Quote Reply Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Hi Dave,

I agree so do you have a viewpoint, timeline about the 'subject' in the title?

Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary?

What do the scriptures show you?

I am asking with curiousity and humility not combative. I would love to know what your thoughts are on this subject.

God Bless



Re: Pre-Tribulation rapture fraud totally blown to pieces - Documentary

Steven Anderson on Alex Jones:

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Pastor Steven Anderson on the Alex Jones show to discuss "After the Tribulation" [FULL]

Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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