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 THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY  BIBLE VERSES SHOWING  7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)

 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."  I Corin. 15:52

The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

  9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS

KJV

        JESUS IS COMING SOON!

       We are followers of JESUS Only

 Seekers of the truth start here by praying

to the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. 

Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

 

THE BIBLE IS THE INERRANT WORD OF YHWH

THE BIBLE IS FREE OF ERROR IN ALL IT'S TEACHINGS AND INSPIRED BY THE WORD OF YHWH

JESUS IS GOD

JESUS is GOD/GOD Son:

JESUS is The WORD

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things
KJV

Ps 122:6

Psa. 122:6   Pray  shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters):  prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.


KJV

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THE BOOK OF ENOCH

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 FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!

Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:

THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT

JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY

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Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....


David was not a priest, yet he offered up many prayers and thanksgiving which we see in the Psalms to his God as he knew He was his strength. He had the Torah and little else. He did not know Isaiah's prophecy of Yahshua, chapter 53 of the suffering Messiah, yet his many prayers show that he had a heart for God and knew Him.

God hates stubborness, unbelief, and disobedience, and wants to see our devotion to Him. That's why He gave out so many laws, so that the Hebrews would see they were miserable sinners and had to repent. He had prophets to write the Torah (our entire Old Testament) to show people there was a Savior on the way.

He came and gave us His Prayer in the Sermon on the Mount, 1611 KJV:

Matthew 6:9-13, especially verses 12-13:

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


What remains is to get our heart right before God and seek all His Ways in devotion and thanksgiving to Him. David learned these things when he was experiencing difficulties, to first consult God, leave it all in His Hands, and give Him thanksgiving and praise and pray in all sincerity, "Lord, may Your Will be done this day," which Elijah and I say in giving thanks for each meal.


So in my estimation, it's best to have this mindset: to do all things for His glory as did our Lord of glory Who gave us this example in all that He did. I pray for you all for His enablement for you to do just that.







Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....

David stood before Goliath and the whole nation had teh promise but only David believed, ; I can do this or we can do this, me and my Lord.

teh whole nation stood in disbelief, but not David.

I have 2 other replys to this post, - thread,

What my Horse told me about Obedience and

What the Lutheran pastor taught me.

I think I will strat anorher thread, when I have time.

PS the short list in Acts

As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

http://bible.cc/acts/21-25.htm

fair use for information and discussion

Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....

A side comment: David had a heart after God's own heart :

Acts 13:22
22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, 'I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.'

NKJV

Did David have the Spirit ( Holy Spirit ) dwelling in him? (like you and me? ) but still sinned because why? ( because we still do not keep all the commandments?) why?

1 John 3:1-3
3:1 The Command to Love


Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

Key scripture below:
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
NKJV

could being like HIM mean when we are translated into our SPIRITUAL bodies?

Interesting thought.....


I guess this post can be added to this thread since it seems to apply as well.


Steven

Our New Website URL
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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


Gal 3
3:1 Justification by Faith
(cf. Rom 4)
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?


5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? — 6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10 The Law Brings a Curse

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 The Changeless Promise
(cf. Gen 12:1-3)
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Purpose of the Law

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


26 Sons and Heirs

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

NKJV




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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



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Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....


David sinned, but he repented and was restored. The Lord Jesus was pleased to say of him "I am the root and the offspring of David...", Revelation 22:16.


About the law, Paul said this:

Romans 7:10 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."


He goes on to confess in verse 14, "For we know the law is spiritual", but realized "but I am carnal, sold under sin."


We see his struggle in the next few verses:

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


But he saw this deliverance:

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


He said he delighted in the law of God, v. 22 but found himself in the midst of a very real battle which threatened to bring him into captivity, v. 23, but he found his deliverance and victory in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Like Paul, we can do the same.



Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....



yes David did repent and was restored.......


David didn't keep all the commandments yet David is in heaven.....


me I sin everyday and repent too.......

but I am unable to keep the commandments......

I am saved BY GRACE through FAITH........I can not boast I can't keep the commandments....but I try....

I will see everyone in heaven that calls on the name of JESUS to be saved...

John 14:6


God Bless

ybiC,

Steven

Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....

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Hi Gimel, Steve and all other members of this site. I must agree, i am not able to keep the " LAW " AS MUCH AS I TRY ! Im a dirty rotton stinking gluttonous sinner saved by Grace thru faith by Jesus Christ, PERIOD !

We have ALL fallen short of the Glory the Lord has for us, in the flesh that is, however, when we were born again, our SPIRIT was made new, we put on the new man, not outwardly, but inwardly, and thus our SPIRIT is seen by God as perfect, but we are restrained by the flesh, hence flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kigdom of God. There is none rightous, no not one !
i AM SAVED BY " GRACE NOT WORKS ".
Now for a little scripture from the true bible, the KINGS JAMES version :

http://www.biblegateway.com/
Ephesians 2:8-9

King James Version (KJV)


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.( emphesis here people)


1 Timothy 1:8-11

King James Version (KJV)


8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
http://bible.org/

There were those who fancied themselves as teachers of the law, but Paul would have none of that. They twisted and distorted the law. The law was not given to make men righteous, but to restrain sin. In heaven, when the New Covenant is fulfilled, we will no longer struggle with sin. God’s law will be written on our hearts, and it will be our delight to obey it. Thus, in our day and time, the law still has a legitimate function (of revealing sin, and of man’s need for SALVATION), but it must be viewed as something which is becoming obsolete. How foolish it would be to cling to something that is on its way out.


Romans 8:1-2

King James Version (KJV)


8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Acts 4:12

King James Version (KJV)


12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would have never been offered up for us all if we were able to keep the law, there would have been no need.


Hebrews 8:6-7

King James Version (KJV)


6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


Romans 7

King James Version (KJV)


7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


Thank You God for the precious BLOOD of Jesus Christ, AMEN !

God Bless you all richly, keep looking up, we are close !

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD



Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....

Hi Bob,

you have a sharpe KNIFE!

Heb 4:12

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV


Excellent post.

God Bless


ybiC,

Steven

Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....



The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ is wonderful, and we wouldn't have it any other way as our flesh through Adam has been corrupted.

However, we have to be careful not to take that proferred grace to the extreme and neglect keeping the commandments, which is not work at all, as so many infer that it is, but it is a pleasure to keep them, as it keeps of from getting ourselves into a whole lot of trouble, insofar as without keeping them, we can slide more and more into sin, fall away and in the process forget God as the Hebrews did. They are our example in the Old Testament and the New as well of what happens when you disobey.


Our Lord set the Ten Commandments into stone. Those two tablets of stone shall be recovered some day soon from its hiding place in Israel to show to the world. Every one of them is the basis of judgment if we do not keep them as we see in Revelation 22:13,14

in the words of our Lord Jesus Christ:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right in the tree of life, and enter in through the gates into the city.


After the Great Tribulation, the Jesus Christ will return with the armies of Heaven and defeat His enemies, Revelation 19:14-16. Then will follow the Millennium with Christ as King of the Earth to complete the 7000 years.

Zechariah 14:16-19 tells us the nations will come and worship Him in Jerusalem:

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


We are obliged as His people to keep both the Decalogue and the Feasts of the Lord.




Re: Please take the time to view this POST: Let me know how you are doing very curious....




Interesting....so keeping the FEAST of the LORD would mean to take a trip to JERUSALEM THREE TIMES a year to keep the FEAST in JERUSALEM.


I don't have plane tickets to JERUSALEM every year since I have been Christian.....nor have I actually known all about the FEAST of the LORD in their entirety.......so I relie on GRACE of God ( JESUS ) to be the ACCEPTANCE for my falling SHORT of keeping the commandments.

Do I try to keep the commancments? Yes I do .....do I succeed NO I do NOT.


So by GRACE I am SAVED ( JESUS ) through FAITH.....not of works or of keeping the FEAST or any other commandment......


JESUS AND HIM alone is what will get me HOME.

The thief on the CROSS DID NOTHING other than PROFESS JESUS as God and the THIEF is NOW IN PARADISE.



Luke 23:32-43

32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.


43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. =red for emphasis
KJV



so if you think any of your good works is going to get you into heaven you will be sadly mistaken.....JESUS and your acceptance of HIS DEATH on the CROSS as payment for the penalty of your sin will get you in......I"m sure the THIEF on the CROSS would call that GRACE & MERCY.

G od's

R iches

A t

C Hrist

E xpense

GRACE


=====================
=====================
definition of GRACE and MERCY:
http://christianity-rediscovered.blogspot.com/2006/08/grace-is-unmerited-favor-this-common_30.html

"Grace is Unmerited Favor" - This Common Definition is Wrong
There are a few key words in the Bible that are given wrong definitions even though the definitions are widely accepted. Such wrong definitions created much confusion and a weak church. Grace is commonly defined as "God's unmerited favor to man". We even go into greater length to differentiate grace from mercy. Grace is defined as the getting the blessings/favors that we do not deserve and Mercy as NOT getting the punishments that we deserved.

With such fine definitions, we deceived ourselves that we have good and deep understanding of the terms of Grace and Mercy.

However, the definition of Grace as unmerited favor is wrong. I used to define grace as making up of two parts - unmerited and power. But after hearing James Ryle (Truthworks.org) preaching in Grace Chapel (gracechapel.net) on 23 Jul 2006 "Living a Legacy Part 4", I have to drop the unmerited part and just keep the power part. The unmerited part comes from God's mercy and need not be repeated in grace. In Tit 1:4, the benediction from Paul is "Grace, Mercy and Peace". (which matches well with 2Tim1:7 7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control).

How to Judge the Correctness of a Definition?
1, Substitute the definition for term in the sentence/verse where the term is found.
2. Do it for all occurrences of the term in all the verses.
Let's try it for Jam 4:6... God resists the proud, but gives [grace] to the humble.
Unmerited favor does not make sense here. If it is unmerited favor, then the proud should have it too. In fact, the proud is more unmerited to receive it.
This is exactly like what Paul says in Rom 6:1b Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Defining Grace as "unmerited favor" causes grace to be misunderstood as a license to sin!
Other verses cited by James:

Gal 5:4b ye are fallen from [grace]. How can one falls from unmerited favor ?
John 1:14b Jesus was full of [grace]. Is Jesus unmerited to have full of grace? Or is Jesus so bad that he need to be full of grace?

The Right Definition
Ps John of Petra Church defines grace as: "Grace is not a license to sin but an empowerment of God to enable us to be what we should".

James Ryle defines it as, "Grace is the empowering Presence of God enabling you to be who He created you to be, and to do what He has called you to do."

In shortest possible form, Grace is "God's presence" or God's power", for victorious, abundant, Christ-like, God glorifying living. Wherever that is the presence of God, there is power. God's power comes from His presence in us.

If we take grace as God's power, then it fits well in the above 3 verses cited. James 4:6, proud people don't see they need God's power. The humble people know the truth of their weakness and ask God for power. In Gal 5:4, if we rely on our own ability (our flesh) to be righteous, we do not need God's power and has indeed fallen, or depart from God's power (Grace). In John 1:14, Jesus is full of God's power and presence.

The Weak/Carnal Paul to Victorious Paul
What is the difference between the weak Paul, the Christian, of Rom 7:14-24 and the victorious Paul of 2 Cor 12:9-10 and Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. The answer is the Grace of God as defined as God's presence and power.

Salvation for all is God's mercy of unmerited favor. Christian growth (becoming like Christ) is depending on us to be full of grace (God's presence and power) through crucifying our flesh (self-will, self-confidence, self-capability, self-pride) and follow after the Spirit. It is about abiding in Christ, living from the Vine of God's presence and power and then be fruitful.

The Verses Coming Alive
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace(God's presence), that we may obtain mercy(unmerited favor), and find grace(God's power) to help in time of need.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace(God's presence & power), and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Let's compare, which definition gives better emphasis
Rom 11:6 And if by grace[unmerited favor of God], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace[favor] is no more grace[favor]. But if it be of works, then is it no more [God’s favor]: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace[Power of God], then is it no more of [men’s] works: otherwise grace[God’s Power] is no more [of God]. But if it be of [men’s] works, then is it no more [God’s power]: otherwise work is no more work.


Eph 2:8 For by grace[unmerited favor] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:8 For by grace[God's power] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Conclusion
Incorrect popular definition of key Christian words give rise to much confusion and a weak church. Defining grace as unmerited favor is wrong and creates the confusion that grace is a license to sin. To live a victorious Christian life, we need to understand God's Word correctly and we must define grace as the power of God's presence in us to enable us to Christ-like lives.

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rhetorical


so how are you coming along with the commandments? keepiing all 613?

me?
no I am not able to keep the commandments nor the feasts of the LORD...That is me.....

God Bless

ybiC, Steven

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I can only count to 10. LOL>


Its amazing to me that we can discuss different points of view and still be friends. ( I am used to the big Boot. )

Yesterday ( Jan 26) I said the Lord's prayer in Nez Perce laungue. The Nez Perce nation is divided in some points of view but always ready to stand as one people,
and its an education to be among them.

We ride our horses with the Nez Perce, on the old Lolo Trail, documented by Lewis and Clark in 1804-1805. The old Indian trail is still here in our mountasins. We are together but different. We are one but seperate.

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the Feasts of the Lord...

Michael Rood says they are a shadow picture of good things to come.

We are learning more and more about them... as we grow, Gene and I.


Gene and I agree, and disagree about many things. How much more so will that be with my friends outside my home.

Shalom.

" Let me know how you are doing" I am doing well and growing in the Lord.

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bump

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here we go again....:)