Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 
THERE IS NO RAPTURE

WHY THE TITLE RAPTURE BIBLE PROPHECY FORUM?
WE STARTED OUT BELIEVING IN A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
BUT FOUND OVER TIME AROUND 2006 THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SHARE A 
BIBLE VERSE WHATSOEVER INDICATING A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)


WE DAILY STUDY TO SHEW OURSELVES APPROVED 
WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO SAY WE ARE LEARNING DAILY AND 
ARE ABLE TO ADMIT WE MAKE MISTAKES BUT STUDY TO 
LEARN EVERY DAY.

LET YHVH/YAHUSHA BE TRUE 
AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.

To Join and post on this site e-mail for a password
​​​​​​​stevensandiego@ymail.com

WEBSITE: HTTP://WWW.RAPTUREBIBLEPROPHECYFORUM.COM

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rapture-Bible-Prophecy-Forum/362856490414697

Hebrew 5783-5788   Gregorian 2023-2028

THIS SITE IS ABOUT Yahusha/JESUS
 We are followers of Yahusha/JESUS Only​​​​​​​
Yahusha/JESUS IS GOD/YHVH
Yahusha/JESUS is YHVH/GOD/YHWH-Yahusha/Son:
​​​​​​​Yahusha/JESUS is The WORD

Yahusha is I Am That I Am  (Exodus 3:14)

Yahusha is YHWH  come in the flesh, He put aside His Diety to become a human, born of  a Virgin.

Yahusha is the Word, As The Most High, He spoke all things seen and unseen into existence

When YHWH created Light, He was revealed to the angels. 

John 14:26
"the breath of life"

But the Comforter, which is "the breath of life", whom the Father will send shall teach you all things.

God is not His  Name but a term.  The Holy Spirit is not a person but the very Breath of the Father.

There is no Trinity.  The Father, YHVH  and Yahusha are One  (John 10:30)

THE BOOK OF ENOCH

NOW IS THE TIME!

 FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!

REFERENCES IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH TO THE BIBLE

https://bookofenochreferences.wordpress.com/category/the-book-of-enoch-with-biblical-references-chapters-1-to-9/chapter-1/

Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

Yahusha/JESUS QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT:

THE APOSTLES QUOTED FROM THE SEPTUAGINT

JEWS WERE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY

FREE DOWNLOADS

All Of The Apocryphal Books Of

The King James 1611 Version

http://www.scriptural-truth.com/apocrypha_books.html 

Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's  return!


Bible Prophecy Forum Postings
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Jovial: "God's Calendar and why Judaism does NOT have it wrong....."


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2012/jovial111-2.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!


Jovial (1 Nov 2012)
"God's Calendar and why Judaism does NOT have it wrong....."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people have concluded that Judaism has gotten the calendar all wrong, not because they have, but because what the Torah says about it is something critics of Judaism have not examined as closely as Jews have for thousands of years.



While most MEN count their eyars from the 1st month to the last of the year, the Bible tells us the first month is in the Spring .... but to COUNT OUR YEARS FROM THE 7th MONTH to the NEXT SEVENTH MONTH!!!!! God does not do things the same way as men, but this is what the Scriptures tell us to do.



Lev/Vay 25:9 says...


ט וְהַעֲבַרְתָּ שׁוֹפַר תְּרוּעָה, בַּחֹדֶשׁ הַשְּׁבִעִי, בֶּעָשׂוֹר, לַחֹדֶשׁ; בְּיוֹם, הַכִּפֻּרִים, תַּעֲבִירוּ שׁוֹפָר, בְּכָל-אַרְצְכֶם. 9 Then shalt thou make proclamation with the blast of the horn on the tenth day of the seventh month; in the day of atonement shall ye make proclamation with the horn throughout all your land.

Now that tells us clear as day that the Jubilee year is counted when?.....Tishri to Tishri. Now read all of Vayikra 25, and you will see it clearly teaches us that ALL counting of Shmitta (7th year or Sabbatical year), harvest, etc., must be in line with Jubilee. Note in verse 8, where it tells us that the counting of Shmitta years must align with Jubilee. So obviously, the 7th month is the start of the year of Jubilee, Shmitta, harvest, buying property, etc.

Some people see this as being in conflict with Exodus/Shemot 12:2, but it is not.



The first month symbolizes creation , redemption, and Passover. But the 7th month symbolizes His return to earth. God has us counting so that we look forward, not backwards!



When we count years as 5760...5761...5762...5763...etc...we are COMMANDED in scripture to count them from the 7th month to the 7th month. Note that Lev 25:8 says




ח וְסָפַרְתָּ לְךָ, שֶׁבַע שַׁבְּתֹת שָׁנִים--שֶׁבַע שָׁנִים, שֶׁבַע פְּעָמִים; וְהָיוּ לְךָ, יְמֵי שֶׁבַע שַׁבְּתֹת הַשָּׁנִים, תֵּשַׁע וְאַרְבָּעִים, שָׁנָה. 8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and there shall be unto thee the days of seven sabbaths of years, even forty and nine years.



So we're suppose to count the years, and we are suppose to mark that count from the 7th month, until the 7th month, as is clearly explained in the rest of Vayikra 25. (You'll have to read on to see where it says this starts in the 7th month, but I just quoted the most important verse from here earlier in this post.) So Rabbinical Judaism is counting years just like Elohim told them to do it. No where does it say to count year 1, year 2, year 3, .... year 576x... from the first month. It says to count the MONTHS from the Spring, but does NOT say to count years that way.



Scripture says to count your months 1,2,3,4,....12, (sometimes 13) from Nisan to Nisan, and count your years 1,2,3,...5762, 5763, 5764....etc.... from Tishri/Ethanim to Tishri/Ethanim. And that is exactly what Judaism is doing - counting their months and years exactly where Elohim said to start and stop. this is why the FALL is called the "turn of the year" in Exodus/Shemot 34:22, because its when the year "turns" or its count is incremented. Note how it says this....

"Celebrate

the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest and
the Feast of Ingathering at the TURN OF THE YEAR" (Exod 34:22)
Is this confusing? Maybe a bit so to newcomers of Torah since no other society counts their years from anything other than the 1st month. But we can't let the traditions of men influence how we interpret scripture. Just because human traditions call month 1 the month a year starts in does not mean Elohim will do the same. But its important to understand the Jewish point of view before arguing its wrong. Many people, both in the Church as well as in Messianic movements of some sort, can be eager to say that Judaism has messed everything up, but they are in fact, following these instructions exactly as they are laid out, even if it is not how men would have numbered things.

Jewish tradition teaches that there are 4 "heads" to 4 different types of years. In the Mishnah, Rosh HaShanah 1:1 says:

"There are four new years:

B. (1) The first day of Nisan is the new year for kings and festivals.
C. (2) The first day of Elul is the new year for tithing cattle.
D. ___R. Eleazar and R. Simeon say, "It is on the first day of Tishre".
E. (3) The first day of Tishri is the new year for the counting of years, for Sabbatical years, and for Jubiliees
F. ___for planting and vegitation
G. (4) the first day of Shebat is the new year for trees, in accord with the opinion of the House of Shammai.
H. ___the House of Hillel say, "On the 15th day of that month" "
And biblically one could say there used to be at least one more fifth "head of the year". The phrase, "Rosh HaShanah" or "Head of the Year" appears only once in Scripture, in Ezekiel 40:1 it says,

"In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year [Rosh HaShanah], in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day...." (Ezek 40:1, KJV [with annotation])

When he uses the phrase "head of the year", this is referring to the head of the "years of exile", measured as how long since Israel was in exile, not the year as Israel came out of Egypt (which is measured from the 1st month), or Jubilee years (measured from the 7th month), or the year for tithing cattle (measured from the 6th month), etc. This is not talking about the 7th month or the first , but the month of Av, for it says "in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day". There is no history of any attack on Israel starting or ending on the 10th day of either Aviv/Nisan or Ethanim / Tishri. But the temple was set afire on the 9th of Av and it took 2 days for it to burn, so the buring of the temple was completed on the 10th of Av. Ezek 40:1 was the exact 25th anniversary of that destruction of the temple. And when we read on in Ezekiel 40, what does G-d choose to reveal to Ezekiel on the 25th anniversary of the destruction of the temple? ..... He reveals what the NEW TEMPLE will look like!!!!! How poetic. The date Ezekiel is giving here is the 10th of Av, on the 25th anniversary of Israel's exile, measured from the day the temple finished burning to the ground. Now this "year" that Ezekiel is referring to, the years of exile, no longer existed when the Mishnah was written, so it was not worth mentioning at that point. But it was mentioned by Ezekiel.



So while there is some minor disagreement in Jewish tradition on this topic, we still see in RH 1:1E that Jewish tradition correctly determnied that Tishri to Tishri is when years are COUNTED, just as Lev 25:9 describes. But it also recognizes another type of "year" that begins on the "Head of the months" of Aviv/Nisan for kings and for setting the calendar.



Now note that for the 2 "years" that are described in scripture, Jewish tradition contains no debate on. But for the other 2 "years", we see some disagreement on how to reckon those.



Now why does the Scirptures tell us to count the year from one seventh month to another? Keep in mind several things: A word for "year" really doesn't exist in Hebrew the same as in English - that is - a word used EXCLUSIVELY to refer to a measure of time. The Hebrew word for "year" (shanah) also can mean "change", "repeat", "study", and perhaps G-d wants us to see all these concepts in this time of year. And there are several instances in which the 7th measure of something creates or precedes a great change in Scripture.

It was on the 7th day that G-d "rested" from creation. The Sabbath rest means we change things every day EXCEPT the 7th day of the week. We work and create assets on every other day, but on the 7th day we rest and make no changes to our wealth.
In Lev 13 are regulations concerning a leprous man who is isolated, and on the 7th day is when the priest (kohen) investigates the man to determine is anything has changed about his status of leprousy.
The 7th year is the YEAR OF RELEASE, and it is in this year that several changes happen; debts are released, slaves are set free, etc.
In Egypt, there were 7 years of plenty followed by another change; 7 years of famine.
In Joshua 6, Israel marched around Jericho for 7 days before a great change happened; the walls fell down.
Also, we know that Rosh HaShanah (The "Head of the Year" or the "Head of the Change") symbolically represents the second coming of the Messiah, which is when the biggest change the world will ever see will happen. And setting this in the 7th month could be a hint as to how this event will happen in the 7th Millenium of mankind.



So whatever God's reasons where for having us "see" a "year" or a "change" in the 7th measure of something, this is the association He made and there must have been something symbolically important in the 7th measure of something in which he wanted us to see a change.

shalom, joe



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out

Re: Jovial: "God's Calendar and why Judaism does NOT have it wrong....."


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2012/jovial111-3.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!


Jovial (1 Nov 2012)
"What's Wrong with the Lunar Sabbath idea?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PART I
Basic Common Sense



We're told, "6 days you shall work, and on the seventh you shall rest" (Exod 23:12). The 7 days cycle of Sabbath coming around every 7 days is the most natural and literal interpretation of what this means, and I have to modify this and interpret it less than perfectly literally to believe in a lunar Sabbath. I have to believe that the plan for the month was so complicated Elohim was unable to express in words the complexity of how there are days not part of any week when He said this.



If Elohim wanted us to celebrate the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th of each month as the Sabbath, why didn't He write Torah to tell us that the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th of each month is a day of rest? That would have been so clear, no one would have gotten it wrong. Instead we get, "6 days you shall work and on the 7th you shall rest" which is going to cause anyone to conclude that there is a 7 day cycle that continuously runs. To accept the Lunar Sabbath, I have to believe that the Sabbath was so important to Elohim He commanded that people be put to death for not observing it on the right day, but He was not clear as to what day it was and worded Torah so ambiguously one could miss the 'fact' it's always on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day of the month. That just doesn't make any good sense at all. If the Sabbath was always on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th , He would have told us that in Torah, but He didn't. and that simple logic is one of the greatest weaknesses to the whole Lunar Sabbath nonsense.



To accept the Lunar Sabbath, one has to believe that when Elohim said "6 days you shall work, and on the seventh you shall rest" (Exod 23:12), you have to know this "trick", not explained in Exod 23:12, or any of the other 7 places where this is repeated in Torah, that the 7 day count starts at the start of the month, even though no where in Torah is this stated. And we have to believe that there are days not part of any week that interupts this count!!!!! If that's true, why didn't Elohim say that in Torah?????



Yeshua kept the Weekly Sabbath

The Scriptures tell us that Yeshua kept the same Sabbath day as the community He lived in. We find this....

"on the Sabbath day He [Yeshua] went into the synagogue, as was His custom" (Luke 4:16)

In Luke 13, we find a case where Yeshua heals a man on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees complain. Yeshua does not respond by claiming that they are celebrating the wrong day as the Shabbat. Instead, we find this....

"Indignant because Yeshua had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath." (Luke 13:14)

If the Lunar Sabbath is true, then we have a serious problem , because Yeshua did not keep a lunar Sabbath. The Gospels record Him being in agreement with the Pharisees of His day that the Sabbath was the 7th day of the week. I'll provide some more documented evidence in a later section that undeniable demonstrates that the Pharisees counted a weekly, not lunar, Sabbath.

The historic evidence that Israel celebrated a 7 days cycle of Sabbaths is abundant, and something I document in the last part of this article.


Stuff that doesn't jive with Lunar Sabbath reckoning


In Genesis/Bere**** 1, we find that we're told the luminaries were created to mark the mo'adim on the 4th day, but God rested on the 7th day, which means He rested on the 3rd day of the first month, observing the 3rd day of the month as a Sabbath. (BTW, Gen/Ber 1 mentions NOTHING about the "moon" as a marker/guide for the mo'adim, but mentions the "luminaries" do this.) If the weekly Sabbath is always marked as 7 days from the new moon, then God violated his own order of things, because He rested on the 7th day of His creative work, and the 3rd day after the first moon, not on the 7th day from a new moon.



The first week in creation did not begin on a lunar month. It began before the first month ever existed. There is a message in this - that the "week" is something that exists outside of lunar cycles - the WEEK existed before the month did. It stands forever by decree of Elohim's word, independent of the month, which was created later.

In the Gospels, we're clearly told several things:

That Yeshua died the day before Passover (14th of Aviv) and the day before an annual Sabbath (15th of Aviv)
That His tomb was found empty on the first day of the week (Mark 16:1, Luke 24:1, John 20:1)
That He would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights.
By the Lunar Sabbath model, the "first day of the week" would have been the 16th of Aviv, meaning He would have been dead for at most, 2 nights and 1 day. It doesn't leave enough time between His death and Resurrection, which HAS to be 3 days and 3 nights.



In Exodus/Shemot 16:1, we're told that it was the 15th day of the 2nd month, and that Israel travelled on that day, which means that the 15th day of the month could not have been a Sabbath. But the 14th can't be a Sabbath every month too because Chag Matzvah is a Sabbath and falls on the 15th. So is first day of Sukkot. And the day before (the 14th) is NOT necessarily a Sabbath, since there's several records of work the day before those days, including lighting the fire for the Pesach. Yeshua was put to death on the 14th, which we're specifically told was NOT a Sabbath day. So if both the 14th and 15th CAN be non-Sabbath days, how can ANY counting from New Moon yield a Lunar Sabbath? Some Lunar Sabbatarians count 5 Sabbaths each month on the 1st, 8th, 15th and 22nd and 29th. Others count 4 on the 7th , 14th, 21st, and then 28th. This kills the first counting method. One Sabbath counting method counts the 1st , 8th, 15th, and 22nd, but not the 29th (See http://hope-of-israel.org/sabfloat.htm).



Here's what Exodus 16:1 says,

"And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt. "

Counting Shavuot: Lev 23 tells us to count 7 "sabbaths" between firstfruits and Shavuot, while Deut 16 tells us to count 7 "weeks". This means there can only be 1 sabbath per week. Lunar Sabbatarians who count 5 Sabbath per month would count 7 Sabbaths after only 5 weeks. Those who count 4 sabbaths per month reach 7 Sabbaths in 6 weeks. Either way, you can't count 7 Sabbaths in 7 Weeks unless there is always only 1 Sabbath per week during this time period.

"And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath, from the day that ye brought the wave sheaf ; seven Sabbaths shall there be complete, even unto the morrow after the seventh week, shall ye number fifty days." (Lev 23:15)

This passage tell us that the count of 50 days conver:

a well defined STARTING point of "from the day that ye brought the wave sheaf ."
a well defined ENDING point of "unto the morrow after the seventh week"
...and tells us that this has to add up to 50 days. All Lunar Sabbath methods of counting require at least 52-53 days to get from Bikkurim to Shavuot. and include both 7 weeks and 7 Sabbaths. No reckoning of the Lunar Sabbath adds up to 50 days. Lunar Sabbatarians that count the 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th days of the month can get 7 Sabbaths in 7 weeks, but with no fewer than 51 days, usually 52 days, and sometimetimes 53 days. This is a result of the fact that the 29th and 30th days of each month get "orphaned" and don't become part of a week. Lunar Sabbatarians that count the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th days of the month as a Sabbath get 8 sabbaths in a 6-week time span. Either way, the numbers don't add up - Jews were counting the festival of Shavuot as 50 days from Passover when the book of Acts was written, but a 50 day count only works if you get EXACTLY one Sabbath EXACTLY every 7 days, with no orphaned days, like hte Lunar Sabbath creates. Also, if the Lunar Sabbath theory is correct, there's no reason to count it as 50 days from Passover, because it will always fall on the same day in the month of Sivan if the Lunar Sabbath theory is correct.

Also, the Scriptures tell us it has to add up to 7 Sabbaths in 7 weeks, and that the next day is exactly 50 days. As it is written

"Even unto the morning after the 7th Sabbath shall you number 50 days." (Lev 23:16)

It can only add up to 50 days if there are exactly 7 days in each week, independent of the cycles of the moon.

If you can count to 50, you can see that the Lunar Sabbath theory doesn't work. In fact, when the lunar Sabbath theory was first proposed, many people were claiming there was only one Lunar Sabbath per month on the 7th day of the month. Later, they modified that to 4 Sabbaths per month because they realized that a weekly Sabbath was clearly being portrayed. But with so many things that don't add up even when you allow that week to "float", it just can't be a correct theory.



Use of term "Pentecost" in 1st century AD: And of course, this is one of the documented proofs that Israel was celebrating a Sabbath every 7th day, not 4 times per month. Because the New Testament calls the festival of Shavuot "Pentecost" in both the Greek and Aramaic versions of the New Testament (See Acts 2:1, 20:16, and 1 Cor 16: . This word is rooted in the Greek word for "fifty" (50), because it was a count of 50 days. Lunar Sabbatarians that count the New Moon as a Sabbath and the 8th as the next Sabbath get 8 Sabbaths in 6 weeks, violating the Shavuot count, and reach 7 Sabbaths in about 40 days. Lunar Sabbatarians that count the Sabbath on the 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th of the month end up with MORE than 50 days. Since this count existed in the times of the disciples by evidence of the fact that it was called the 50th day in Yeshua's time when the New Testament was written, they had to have been using a weekly Sabbath, not a lunar Sabbath, because no lunar Sabbath system allows me to count 7 Sabbaths in 7 weeks and set the next day as Shavuot on the 50th day. We either get under 50 days or over 50 days, but we cannot make it 50 days, mostly because of the kink that the orphaned 29th and 30th days of the month throw into this system. We know from the fact that the use of the word "Pentecost" was established in the time of the writing of the New Testament that they were counting it 7x7+1=50 days from Passover when Yeshua walked the earth! and you can't get ANY lunar Sabbath system to add up to 7 Sabbaths in 7 weeks and 50 days all at the same time.



7th month Holidays: Also, in Lev 23, we're told that in the 7th month, the 1st, 10th, 15th and 22nd days of the month are Sabbaths. If the Lunar Sabbath theory is correct, there'd be no reason to tell us that the 1st, 15th and 22nd day are Sabbaths if it happened that way every month. But there was the same need to tell us that the 15th and 22nd day of the month were Sabbaths for the same reason we had to be told that the 10th was a Sabbath - because it doesn't necessarily happen that way every month.



We're told Yeshua was crucified as they were slaughtering the Passover lambs, on the day of the 14th of Aviv. We're told it was the night before a Sabbath and that He rose the day after a Sabbath, 3 days and 3 nights after He died. Those who count 4 Sabbaths per month (7th, 14th, 21st, and 28th) can't make this jive at all, because they have Him dieing ON a Sabbath day, instead of before it. Those who count 5 Sabbath for month can't get 3 days and 3 night and still have Him rise the day after a Sabbath. Either way, it just doesn't balance out. There's just no way to get 3 days and 3 nights AND have Yeshua die the day before a Sabbath and rise the day after unless there was the possibility of more than one Sabbath happening in the same week. A syste mwith both a weekly and Annual Sabbath allows for more than one Sabbath in the same week. Any Lunar Sabbath theory does not.



Meaning of "Shabbat"

Virtually 100% of all Lunar Sabbath keepers don't speak Hebrew. Learning Hebrew is one cure for the Lunar Sabbath, because the word "Shabbat" in Hebrew can mean the 7th day of the week, but it can also refer to the entire week. Here's one example from the New Testament...

"I fast twice each Shabbat [meaning 'week' not '7th day']" (Luke 18:12)

Most English versions have translated this as "I fast twice each week", because that is obviously what he means here. You can't fast twice in one day. How do you do that; eat all day except for two breaks? What this is refering to is the Jewish custom of fasting two days out of each week. There are a number of other examples in the New Testament as well, although this is one of the easiest to see, and recorded this way in both the Aramaic and Greek versions. Usually, when "Sabbath" is used for the Sabbath day, it is "Shabbat" and when it is used for the entire week, it is "Shabbatah", BUT, exceptions do exist in which "Shabbat" is used ot refer to the entire week as well. One example of "Shabbatah" can be found in Echad Mi Yodaya, a traditional Jewish song sung at Passover, which is sung as "7 are the days of the week/Shabbatah." But the Mishnah also records several places where "Shabbat" (not Shabbatah) is obviously referring to a week, and not a Sabbath day. These places include Ketubot 5:5, Eduyyot 4:10, and Niddah 4:5. For example, in Niddah 4:5, there is a debate as to whether protracted labor should be viewed as maximizing at 40-50 days, one month, or 2 "Shabbats." It obviously can't be 2 Sabbaths, because that would violate the commandment against working on the Sabbath. The other passages are good examples as well. Shabbat or Shabbatah is not the more common word for "week", but it is sometimes used that way.

There are other places in the New Testament where the word "Sabbath" means "week". Acts 20:7 et seq says

On the first [day] of the week (sabbaton) we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. ...Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left.

Now if "first of the sabbaton" is "first of the sabbaths" here, you have a problem. It's the evening of the "first of Shabbaton". Paul talks until daylight, which would still be "first of the shabbaton" and then gets on a ship. If this was a Sabbath day, he travelled on the Sabbath and violated the Torah requirement that we not leave camp on Shabbat. Yet Paul/Shaul said he was Torah observant (Acts 22:3, 23:1-5, 25:8, 26:5-8 and 28:17) even claiming he never violated the Torah in several of these verses in Acts.

1 Cor 16:2 says, "On the first [day] of the week/sabbath (sabbaton)..." (Greek 1 Cor 16:2) To interpret this as the Sabbath day would mean that Paul is saying to collect money on Shabbat and deal with money on Shabbat. women who went to His tomb "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment" (Luke 23:56). So they did not go to His tomb on the Sabbath because they knew someone had to roll the stone away and that would require work. Also, they intended to carry spices with them, and carrying a load on the Sabbath is forbidden in scriptures (See Jer/Yer 17:21-27, Neh 13:15). John/Yochanan 19:39 tells us that the spices carried before His burial weighed what amounted to as about 75 pounds in English weights, so the full set of spices was no light load for two women to carry. We don't know exactly how much of that they returned with, but we do know when they returned. Luke 23:56 tells us the women did not go to the tomb on the Sabbath because they were resting in obedience to the commanmdment. Yet in Luke 24:1 it tells us...

"And on the first of the week (Sabbaths - sabbatwn), at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready" (Greek Luke 24:1)

So right after being told it would be a sabbath violation to go to the tomb (bearing a load, like spices) on the Sabbath, the Greek NT tells us they went to the tomb on the "Sabbaths" (plural). This can only make sense if we interpret the word "Sabbaths" to mean "week". And irregardless of what language you believe the NT was written in , the fact that the word "Sabbath" was used this way both in Hebrew and in Greek demonstrates how tied the 7th day is to the concept fo a week.



Meaning of "Mo'ed"

Another flaw in the Lunar Sabbath argument is the failure to understand what the word mo'ed means. While it means "appointed". It does not have to refer to an appointed time, and can refer to something appointed in a different context. So when it is translated "appointed [times]", perhaps the word "times" should be in parenthesis to indicate that it is only inferred , and not an inherit part of the word. This is why it appears in Numbers 16:2 when it refers to the

"...appointed (mo'ed) men of renown." (Num 16:2)

This is to indicate that the men were appointed by the Beit Din to be rulers. It is calling the men "appointed", not refering to an appointed time period. Another good example of the word "Mo'ed" refering to something "appointed" but not an appointed time is in Joshua 20:9, which says...

"These were the appointed (mo'edah) cities..." (Josh 20:9)
So this word does not even have to refer to a time period at all. It can be used in any sentence where an "appointed [something]" is mentioned. But because this word gets used in "synagogue speach" to refer to what we would call "holidays" in English, many people have gotten the wrong impression on how to interpret the word.

The word "mo'ed" is used to refer to many non-holidays, and for any time that was "appointed" for some reason.

"And I will establish my covenant with Yitzhak (Isaac), whom Sarah will bear at this mo'ed (appointed ) next year ." (Gen/Ber 17:21)
"At the mo'ed (appointed ) I will return to you." (Gen/Ber 18:14)
"And YHWH set a mo'ed (appointed )..." (Exod/Shemot 9:5) This has nothing to do with any holiday, but simply refers to when one of the plagues would cease. We also KNOW this was not on an annual holiday since it happened just prior to the Spring holidays.
"And it happened in the morning, Yohanathan went out to the field for the mo'ed [appointment] with David..." (1 Samuel 20:35)
David and Yohanathan had made an "appointment" to meet at a certain time so Yohanathan could tell David whether Saul intended to kill him or not. We're also told that this was just AFTER the new moon day had passed, so we know it was not a new moon day, or any other annual Sabbath as defined in Leviticus 23.

The reality is that the use of the word "mo'ed" in the context of "synagogue speach" has warped people's understanding of what a mo'ed is. It is a far more general term that it is used for, and is interpreted by lunar sabbatarians.



Arguments for a Lunar Sabbath

One of the most crucial arguments in favor of a Lunar Sabbath is that the Scriptures call it a "mo'ed", and it therefore must be determined by the cycle of the moon. This is based on Ps 104:19 , which says...

"He made the moon for moadim
The sun knows its gate (going down, place it rests at)"
(Ps/Teh 104:19)

Thus, the argument is that if something is a moed, it is determined by the moon. This argument has several flaws.

Fails to examine what Torah says about what determines the moadim
Fails to interpret Ps 104:19 in light of the foundation of Torah.
Fails to properly interpret Ps 104:19 in light of Hebrew parallelism.
Fails to examine the context of the entire Psalm.
Scriptures record numerous moadim that were not determined by the moon. Exod/Shem 9:5 is one example.
Let's take a look at each of these issues.



At the start of Torah, it says...

"Let there be luminaries (lights) in the firmament of the heavens, to divide between day and night. And let them be for signs and seasons (mo'adim) and for days and years." (Gen/Ber 1:14)

This verse does NOT say that all mo'adim are dependent on the moon. In fact, the moon isn't even mentioned here. It tells us that the luminaries determine the "seasons"/appointed times (mo'adim). Anything that gives off light counts in the category of a "luminary".



Every day of the week, including the Sabbath, is determined by the sun and stars (and the moon, counting it as a star). Because a day ends at sundown, and begins when the first three stars are seen in the sky (of which, the moon can be one as long as it is giving off light). so indeed, the 7th day of the week is determined by the sun, stars (and moon as a luminary, if it is giving off light that night).



Now in Ps 104:19, while the moon is mentioned as being for the purpose of moadim, let's interpret Ps 104:19 in light of Gen 104:19 and Hebrew parallelism. Note that the parallelism in Ps 104:19 tells us that the moon alone cannot determine a moed - it needs the sun, for it says...

"He made the moon for moadim
THE SUN knows its gate"
(Ps/Teh 104:19)

Both the moon and the sun are mentioned in Ps 104:19, and those who are trying to tell us that the Sabbath is dependent on the moon, because it is a mo'ed and all mo'adim are dependent on the moon are cutting off half the verse in Ps 104:19 they are using as a "proof" text and COMPLETELY IGNORING Gen/Ber 1:14. Did Jews have to wait until the book of Psalms was written to know how that the Sabbath was determined by the moon? Where did they have written proof of this between the time Gen 1:14 and Psalms 104:19 was written many centuries later?



There's other parallels in Ps 104 that get ignored by lunar Sabattarians. Backtrack another verse and we see....

"He sends springs into valleys....
He waters the hills...
He causes the grass to grow....
High hills are for the wild goats
Rocks are a refuge for the badger
He made the moon for appointed times (moadim)
THE SUN knows its gate
You put darkness, and it is night...."
(Ps/Teh 104:10...20)

The whole context is simply saying God provides everything. That he sets everything in motion. He appoints waters to flow, food for animals. He appoints daytime and He appoints nighttime. That's all this is saying.

When you look at the parallel statements...

"High hills are for wild goats....
Rocks are a refuge for the badger
He made the moon for moadim


Re: Jovial: "God's Calendar and why Judaism does NOT have it wrong....."


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2012/jovial111-3.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out:LIKE it!


PART II

Does a wild goat HAVE TO LIVE on a high hill? Obviously not, but sometimes they do. Does a badger HAVE TO TAKE REFUGE in rocks? Obviously not, but sometimes they do. So why would we interpret the parallel statement "He made the moon for appointed times" to conclude that an "appointed time" has to involve the moon? These statements appear in parallel , and when this happens in Hebrew, we can interpret one statement in light of the statements it parallels. A dependency relationship does not exist with hill/goat or rock/badger, and there's no reason to conclude that a dependency relationship has to exist between the moon and mo'adim either. The idea that such a dependency relationship exists is what lunar sabbatarians have read INTO the text, not something it actually says.



The moon is a luminary - it gives off light. And Ps 104:19 hints to us about how it needs the sun in order to determine the start of a month. The moon (and its reflecting light from the sun) is necessary to determine SOME of the moadim (appointed times). Does that mean it is necessary for ALL appointed times? The text does not necessarily say that, and we can find plenty of mo'adim for which the moon was not relevant. For example...

"And YHWH set a mo'ed (appointed time)..." (Exod/Shemot 9:5)

We know roughly when this occured - Spring time, and before the first Passover. No holidays (Passover, Sabbath ,etc) had ever been celebrated before this. None of the "appointed times" in Leviticus 23 had occured yet. Israel had not celebrated them yet. The same is true of the usage of this term in Gen 17:21, 18:14, and 21:2, describing the birth of Yitzhak (Isaac) as happening at a mo'ed before the commandments for the appointed times of Passover, Firstfruits, other holidays, and Shabbat had ever been given.



The wilderness tabernacle was called the Ohel Mo'ed (usually translated "Tent of the Meeting"), but the term was not used exclusively for holidays and Shabbat. It was simple the appointed place, and the moon was not needed to determine where this tent was.



Or lets take a look at Numbers/B'Midbar 28, where it says...

"My offerings...you shall ofer to me in its mo'adim (appointed seasons)....days by day, as a continual burnt offering." (Num/Bmid 28:2...3)

Note that EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK is the mo'ed (appointed time) to offer the offerings listed in Num/B'Mid 16!!!! On the Sabbath, you offer more (See Num 28:10), but this is describing a DAILY offering. But EVERY day is a mo'ed (appointed time) for SOME purpose, though not necessarily for every purpose, and not necessarily for the same purposes as the feasts mentioned in Leviticus/Vayikra 23. I've asked Lunar Sabbatarians how they deal with their Lunar Sabbath theory when EVERY DAY is called a MOED (appointed time) for offering sacrifices. So far, no one has given me an answer on this one. Here's some more examples of ordinary use of this word...

"The men of the city went to meet Israel for battle ...at the mo'ed (appointed )" (Joshua 8:14)
"These were the appointed (mo'edah) cities..." (Josh 20:9)
"And there was a mo'ed (set time) to the men of Israel for the ambush..." (Judges 20:3
"It has been kept for you for this mo'ed (appointed time)..." (1 Sam 9:24)
"Yonathan went to the field for an appointment (mo'ed) with David..." (1 Sam 20:35)
"Call for the men of Yehudah (Judah) 3 days....And Amasa went to call Yehudah (Judah) but delayed beyond the mo'ed (set )..." (2 Sam 20:4-5)
"YHWH sent a plague on Israel from morning to the mo'ed - appointed time." (2 Sam 24:15)
There's many other examples that could be shown where the word mo'ed is simply used to mean the same thing as the phrase "appointed " in English, and does not necessarily have to refer to a holiday of some sort, and obviously does not depend on the moon.

So when Ps 104:19 says...

"He sends springs into valleys....
He waters the hills...
He causes the grass to grow....
High hills are for the wild goats
Rocks are a refuge for the badger
He made the moon for appointed times (moadim)
THE SUN knows its gate (an appointed PLACE at which it disappears)
You put darkness, and it is night...."
(Ps/Teh 104:10...20)

Does mo'adim here HAVE to refer to a holiday? No. It simply means that the moon was created to help us mark time. That's it. To interpret Ps 104:19 to mean that it MUST refer to the holidays mentioned in Lev 23 is to narrow the meaning of what the word mo'ed COULD mean in this passage. It has a very broad meaning and can refer to many things. And in this context, the MO'ED that is being referred to is nighttime in general. It is not talking about Pesach, Yom Kippur or Shabbat. God has appointed (mo'ed in Hebrew) daytime and He has appointed nightttime.



Note the parallels again...

He made the moon for appointed times (moadim)
THE SUN knows its gate (an appointed PLACE at which it disappears)
You put darkness, and it is night...."
(Ps/Teh 104:10...20)

He talks of the moon and its relation to an appointed time.
He talks of the sun and its relation to an appointed place.



Then he says, "You put darkness, and it is night", refering to how night passes to day, day passes to night. Day and night are appointed times (mo'adim). The moon (with the help of other luminaries) rules over the night at the night's appointed time (See Ps 136:9). The sun rules over the day whch is the time appointed for the sun. The moon is the brightest light we see in the sky, but also the least direct, since it is reflected light, as opposed to the stars which directly eminate their own light.



Why do people narrow its meaning here? Largely because the word "MO'ED" has become an English word and taken on a new meaning to folks speaking English that is different from the Hebrew word "MO'ED". It has become a theological word that means "holiday" to many people, much like "Goy" means Gentile in English when it means "nation" in Hebrew. (Israel is called a "Goy" in the Tanak.) Or much like many people think "Teshuvah" is the word for "repent" in Scriptures, when the Tanakh actually uses "Nachum" most of the time for that word. ("Teshuvah" is actually a relatively more MODERN that traces to about the Mishnaic period.)

The term mo'ed is used in many places in scripture to refer to something other than a holiday. It does not have to strictly mean only that. The term mo'ed is used in Joshua 8:14 to mean an appointed time that is not a holiday. The term mo'ed is used in Judges 20:38 to mean an appointed time that is not a holiday. So why do lunar Sabbatarians insist that mo'ed in Ps 104 HAS to refer to a holiday, when this word is used for non-holidays in so many other places?



The logic comes from how it says in Lev 23 "These are my appointed time (mo'ed)..." and then introduces the festivals. While each festival is an appointed time, the Scriptures do not use the word mo'ed to exclusively refer to the feasts of Leviticus 23. The "appointed times" of Lev 23 are times appointed for a particular purpose. There are other times appointed for other purposes. Judges 20:38 appoints a time for an ambush and calls it a mo'ed, but its not an "appointed time" as Leviticus/Vayikra is using the term.



But even if you narrow the meaning of mo'ed to mean "holiday" in Ps 104:19, it still doesn't prove the point. Lunar Sabbatarians like to point to Lev 23 where they interpret the term "Mo'ed" to be used inclusively of the Sabbath and the New Moons. In reality, I find the language of Lev 23 ambiguous, but we find the term "mo'ed" being used exclusively of New Moons and Sabbaths in several places. Here's a few examples....

"On Sabbaths, new moons, and moadim." (2 Chron 2:3)
"daily...Sabbaths, new moons, and moadim." (2 Chron 8:13)
There's other places (Ezra, Nehemiah, etc), but here we find "Sabbaths" and "New Moons" being spoken of as something separate from "mo'adim". So even if you accept the argument that Lev 23 uses the term Mo'ed inclusively of the Sabbath, it is used exclusively of the Sabbath in other parts of Scripture, thus, it is not an automatic as to whether Ps 104:19 would be using the term mo'ed inclusively or exclusively of the weekly Sabbath. So even if we narrow or interpretation of the word mo'ed in Ps 104:19 to mean "holiday", we still haven't proven that the word should be used inclusively of the weekly Sabbath (as some allege Lev 23 does) versus interpreting exclusively of the Sabbath, as 2 Chron 2:3, 8:13, Ezra, Nehemiah, and other places use the term mo'ed to refer to times other than the Sabbath. And Exod 9:5 is another great example where the term MOED is used to refer to what is obviously not a holiday.



To make matters worse, we sometimes see people arguing AGAINST the lunary Sabbath, but using logic that is just as faulty and just as based on the idea that a "mo'ed" can only be used as a holiday. I've heard several people try to argue against the lunar Sabbath concept by saying the Sabbath is not an appointed time (mo'ed). The problem is not whether the Sabbath is a time that has been appointed for a special purpose, but whether Ps 104:19 should be interpret so narrowly as to conclude that that every mo'ed must be governed by the new moon in some fashion.



There may even be a subtle hint in Leviticus/Vayikra 23 that the list of moed[im] given is NOT an exclusive list ,and that is thru the way it shifts plurality. Here's how the text reads...

"...say to them the appointed times (plural=mo'adim) of YHWH which you shall proclaim them as holy gatherings. These (plural) are my appointed time (singular possessive=mo'edi)"

The shift from plural (mo'adim) to singular (mo'ed) may indicate that it is not intended to be an exhaustive list of all appointed times (mo'adim). In English, we would not indicate something like that using that method - we would do it a different way. I'm not aware of any rule of Hebrew grammar that defines this in Hebrew, however, I think we can safely say that approaching how to interpret whether this is some sort of exhaustive and inclusive versus exclusive list of all appointed times for all possible reasons is not something that should be determined through an English based form of reasoning when the setnence structure in the original Hebrew doesn't match the way most English translations translate it (plural everywhere). And since the whole Lunar Sabbath theory hinges on this being an exhaustive and inclusive list, the whole lunar Sabbath reasoning is a result of applying an English based analysis to the text instead of a Hebrew based analysis.



The Oral Law Contradiction



Torah tells us all mo'adim are determined by the LUMINARIES, making no mention of the moon. So if the Lunar Sabbath theory is true, then it was part of Oral Law until it was recorded in Ps 104. So to accept the Lunar Sabbath theory, one must accept the idea of Oral Torah, but one must reject Oral Torah to accept the Lunar Sabbath since that Oral Torah interpretation has not been preserved. This is an impossible conflict of ideas to resolve.



Also, we would have to rely on Oral Law to figure out where to put the 2 "orphaned" days that aren't part of any week. There's various theories on how to make the Lunar Sabbath work. Here's a few...

Sabbaths are on 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th of month.
On the 30th you have a day not part of any week.
Sabbaths are on 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th of the month.
On the 29th and 30th, you have two days not part of any week.
On the 1st, you have a day not part of any week.
Sabbaths are on 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th of month.
On the 30th, you have a day not part of any week.
Sabbaths are on 7th, 14th, 22rd and 29th of the month.
The 15th and 30th are days not belonging to any week.
The new month is declared the day after a dark moon, whether there is a sliver or not.
If there is no sliver, it is a day not part of any week. The day of the sliver is also a day with no week.
After that are the 4 weeks with Sabbaths at the end of each week.
All of these theories go againt the Biblical commandment to work 6 day and rest the seventh, since each of these involve working 25 days and resting 4 or 5, or working 24 days and resting 5 or 6 - not the cycle described in Torah.



If the Lunar Sabbath theory is true, the Scriptures don't tell us what to do with the two "orphaned" days that are not part of any week, but we end up with 2 days that are not part of any week. With no written information to resolve which it might be, we could only turn to Oral Law to resolve that. Oral Law, of course, refutes the whole concept of Lunar Sabbath since the idea is not known to exist prior to the 21st century. I have not even seen evidence it goes as far back as the 20th century.



The Sabbath carried a death sentence. Would something that important to G-d get lost over time with no way to recover the true reckoning?



One reason most people would conclude that 1 of the 2 orphaned days belongs at the END of the month is that we don't know how many days a month has until the new moon is sighted. But where does the other day go? At the first of the month? That would create more symmetry than putting both days at the end of the month. Does that other day belong in the middle of the month - say - between the 2nd and 3rd week? Again, that would also create more symmetry than putting both days at the end of the month. Or does it belong at the 29th of the month, creating an imbalance between the 4 weeks and how they spread over the month, giving us an imbalance as to how the 4 weeks divide the month into parts?



Putting it at the beginning or middle of the month is very symmetric. But which method is prefered? The beginning or middle? Where in Torah do we find an answer to this delimma? We don't. Since the answer is not in Torah, we would have to turn to Oral tradition. Of course, the problem is that the Oral Torah concerning the Lunar Sabbath doesn't even go back to the 20th century for us to consult it on this issue. So there's no written command in Scripture to settle the question of where the first of the 2 orphaned days goes, and there's no tradition on where to put the first of the 2 orphaned days, so we are left with no knowledge of where to put the first of the 2 orphaned days at all, and therefore unable to determine when the Sabbaths are. The penalty for the Sabbath was death, yet if the Lunar Sabbath theory is true, we are left with being unable to determine when the Sabbaths are, because there are a multitude of solutions as to what the do with the 2 orphaned days, and no means by which to make a determination as to which should be used. Would G-d really leave mankind with no means to know when the Sabbath was when it was so important to Him tha a death penalty was attached to it?



Shalom, Joe




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Facebook Page Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum: Please Check it out