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Kevin Heckle: "Daniel 11:37-39 "Desire of Women" and "strongest of fortresses"(America)"


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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2012/kevinh514.htm
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Kevin Heckle (14 May 2012)
"Daniel 11:37-39 "Desire of Women" and "strongest of fortresses"(America)"

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Doves,
Contrary to popular belief, Daniel 11:37 does not imply in anyway that the antichrist will be homosexual. Niether does it imply he will have no regard for babies (desired by some women). He will only regard human safety (fortresses). In fact, the next two verses desribes our America (the "strongest of fortresses")

Here is the passage:

[37] "He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all. [38] "But instead he will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures. [39] "He will take action against the strongest of fortresses with the help of a foreign god; he will give great honor to those who acknowledge him and will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price. - Dan 11:37-39 NASB

Daniel describes someone who will regard NO god; not the gods of his fathers, the desire of women (HOUSEHOLD IDOLS) or any other god. He will be a classic NARCISSIST - "he will magnify himself above them all."

The term "desire of women" has to be read in context of the sentence, which lists the various TYPES of gods disregarded by the evil leader. Logically, why would Daniel in a paragraph about the "gods" disregarded by the evil leader, include his sexual orientation?

The term "desire of women" has also been interpreted as referring to the Messiah or babies in general. Again, this would be completely out of context as the passage is listing the TYPES of gods not regarded.

The Bible gives a perfect example of the type of god "desired by women" in Genesis 31:19-35. In fact, Rachel desired the household gods (small idols) so much that she stole them from her father's house, deceived her husband by not telling him she'd stolen them, concealed them and then lied to her father just so she could keep the household idols she desired(passage below). So the antichrist will not regard the gods of his fathers, he will not regard the small household idols desired by women, nor ANY other god including THE Lord.

The evil ruler will only regard HUMAN SAFETY - the "god of fortresses". The Blue Letter Bible and Gesenius' Lexicon defines the word "fortress" as "a place or MEANS of safety, (human) protection or refuge." http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4581&t=NASB

So then the only thing the evil narcissistic person will regard is himself and the means of human safety like government safety nets for every aspect of life ("what the government should do on our behalf" according to one law professor). The antichrist will spend great amounts of treasure on this means of human safety "he will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures", yet he will also take action AGAINST the strongest means of human safety; "He will take action against the strongest of fortresses with the help of a foreign god". The Hebrew (or Aramaic) doubles the word ma-owz which is interpreted as "strongest fortress" implying the twofold nature of his country as a military and social fortress (IMHO).

What is the strongest fortress in the world today? The evil ruler will take action though, seemingly against his own country with the help of a foreign god by means of indebting his own people "will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price."


I find it amazing that the Bible depicts the narcissistic leader of a superpower who wholeheartedy believes in government provided human protection (denying dependence on God), enough so that he expends great amounts of treasure to fund it, yet also acts to deminish that fortress by indebting and enslaving his own countrymen to any foreign "god" (other fortresses of safety in this context) which acknowledges him and willing to purchase his country's equity. Daniel 11:24 also says that this world leader will distribute plunder in the richest parts of the realm (bailouts?) yet also scheme against the strongholds.
Does any of this sound familiar?

YBIC,
Kevin H.


The Desire of Women

Gen 31:19-35 NASB - When Laban had gone to shear his flock, then Rachel stole the household idols that were her father's.

And Jacob deceived Laban the Aramean by not telling him that he was fleeing. So he fled with all that he had; and he arose and crossed the Euphrates River, and set his face toward the hill country of Gilead. When it was told Laban on the third day that Jacob had fled, then he took his kinsmen with him and pursued him a distance of seven days' journey, and he overtook him in the hill country of Gilead. God came to Laban the Aramean in a dream of the night and said to him, " Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad." Laban caught up with Jacob. Now Jacob had pitched his tent in the hill country, and Laban with his kinsmen camped in the hill country of Gilead. Then Laban said to Jacob, "What have you done by deceiving me and carrying away my daughters like captives of the sword? "Why did you flee secretly and deceive me, and did not tell me so that I might have sent you away with joy and with songs, with timbrel and with lyre; and did not allow me to kiss my sons and my daughters? Now you have done foolishly. "It is in my power to do you harm, but the God of your father spoke to me last night, saying, ' Be careful not to speak either good or bad to Jacob.' "Now you have indeed gone away because you longed greatly for your father's house; but why did you steal my gods?" Then Jacob replied to Laban, "Because I was afraid, for I thought that you would take your daughters from me by force. "The one with whom you find your gods shall not live; in the presence of our kinsmen point out what is yours among my belongings and take it for yourself." For Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen them. So Laban went into Jacob's tent and into Leah's tent and into the tent of the two maids, but he did not find them. Then he went out of Leah's tent and entered Rachel's tent. Now Rachel had taken the household idols and put them in the camel's saddle, and she sat on them. And Laban felt through all the tent but did not find them. She said to her father, "Let not my lord be angry that I cannot rise before you, for the manner of women is upon me." So he searched but did not find the household idols.



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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



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Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Re: Kevin Heckle: "Daniel 11:37-39 "Desire of Women" and "strongest of fortresses"(America)"


Our New Website URL
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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2012/johnt515.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


John Too (15 May 2012)
"re: Daniel 11:37-39 "Desire of Women" and "strongest of fortresses"(America)"


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Kevin Heckle:
Daniel describes someone who will regard NO god; not the gods of his fathers, the desire of women (HOUSEHOLD IDOLS) or any other god. He will be a classic NARCISSIST - "he will magnify himself above them all."

The term "desire of women" has to be read in context of the sentence, which lists the various TYPES of gods disregarded by the evil leader. Logically, why would Daniel in a paragraph about the "gods" disregarded by the evil leader, include his sexual orientation?

The term "desire of women" has also been interpreted as referring to the Messiah or babies in general. Again, this would be completely out of context as the passage is listing the TYPES of gods not regarded.


Reply:
You may be right about household idols, but the Messiah is God, and so is also in context with that verse.

He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women (the Messiah) nor will he show regard for any other god.
Jack Kelley say's that Israeli women desired to give birth to the Messiah.
This beast will allow a statue (idol) of himself to be worshipped.
Cheers, John Too.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Re: Kevin Heckle: "Daniel 11:37-39 "Desire of Women" and "strongest of fortresses"(America)"


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com
For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes


http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2012/kevinh516.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Kevin Heckle (16 May 2012)
"Nicole & John Too: Daniel 11:37 Desire of Women"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nicole,

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2012/nicole515-3.htm


In response to your assertion that Obama is gay, fulfilling Daniel 11:37, I don’t have personal knowledge of his sexual orientation, although he wants their political support. However, I am certain the Daniel 11:37 passage does NOT indicate that the antichrist will be a homosexual. To begin with, it does not fit into the context of the sentence describing the various gods not regarded by the evil ruler.


More simply, it is a fact of English. The prepositions “of” and “for” have two different meanings in this context. In Daniel’s sentence, the translators use “OF” women, which indicates an object “belonging to” women, whereas IF the sentence read the desire “FOR” women it would indicate “women” as the object. IF the passage read (paraphrasing) “Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire FOR women…” it would mean he doesn’t like women, as you assert. The passage as written though indicates he has no regard for what women want which in context has to be some sort of idol-god.


---------------------------------------


John Too,

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2012/johnt515.htm



Dan 11:37 KJV - [37] Neither shall he regard the God of his father’s, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.



You will notice in the KJV that God is capitalized in the term “God of his father’s”, whereas “nor any god” is not. The reason is, they are two different words. The little g “god” is the Hebrew (Strong’s H433) elowahh in this context is obviously in reference to ANY false god, whereas “God” (capital G) is the Hebrew name Elohiym (Strong’s H430) which is a plurality with a singular meaning of our one true God; In other words – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – The Trinity. So by that specific name Elohiym we know the evil ruler will not regard the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. There would be no need then for Daniel to repeat himself by referring to the Messiah as the “desire of women”.



The whole passage is referring to our future or possibly present timeframe, THE END TIMES. So to say the “desire of women” is in reference to a desire of women to bear thee Messiah would be patently false as our Messiah has already been born. This passage is in reference to the end time evil ruler; So IF there are women still desiring to give birth to a messiah, that object of their desire would have to be a false messiah. Therefore the person disregarded by the evil ruler would only be another false messiah disregarded, because the REAL Messiah has already been born. If there are Hebrew women out there hoping to give birth to a messiah, it is a false messiah they are hoping to bear. So again the only logical conclusion for the “desire of women”, in this context listing the various gods disregarded by the evil ruler, is an idol-god of the type described as desired by Rachel in Genesis 31:19-35.



In Christ,

Kevin H.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com