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There is NO 7 Year Pre Tribulation Rapture:

Research C I Scofield, John Darby and Henry Utemeier be a berean there is NOT ONE 7 year pre tribulation rapture bible verse in the bible. (note: use the search box on this site and type in scofield or type in steve wohlberg )

 

1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
KJV

 

      Jesus is Coming Don't Miss It For the World!

         No debating about denominational issues. 

 

Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
KJV

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

 

THE BIBLE IS THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD

JESUS IS GOD

 

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things
KJV

 

Ps 122:6

 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
KJV

 

 

Pray for one another, as we watch for the Lord's  return!

 

 

 

 

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Index > General > PreWrath PreTribulation Postings of Interest > Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES
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Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES


Our New Website URL
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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/robertr421.htm

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Robert Rose (21 Apr 2012)
"2 Witnesses. The Nail in the COFFIN."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Alright Guys.....

Seems like every year I have to post the same thing cuz new people are searching for truth. Here it goes again.

I have always believed the 2 witntesses of revelation to be Enoch (7th from Adam) and Elijah, very simply because they have never tasted death and GOD took them for a purpose.

Later on GOD CONFIRMED this truth to me by the book of NICODEMUS

Chapter:
IX ( XXV )

But the Lord holding the hand of Adam delivered him unto Michael the archangel, and all the saints followed Michael the archangel, and he brought them all into the glory and beauty (grace) of paradise. And there met with them two men, ancients of days, and when they were asked of the saints: Who are ye that have not yet been dead in hell with us and are set in paradise in the body? then one of them answering, said: I am Enoch which was translated hither by the word of the Lord, and this that is with me is Elias the Thesbite which was taken up in a chariot of fire: and up to this day we have not tasted death, but we are received unto the coming of Antichrist to fight against him with signs and wonders of God, and to be slain of him in Jerusalem, and after three days and a half to be taken up again alive on the clouds.


Hopefully now this subject can be put to rest.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Email  
Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/johng421.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


John G (21 Apr 2012)
"HOLY SPIRIT/RESTRAINER"


http://endtimepilgrim.org/restrainer.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Greetings doves in the name of Jesus.

Below is a web site that is more in line with what my spirit reveals to me about the Holy Spirit versus Restrainer.

I never could wrap my finite brain around the fact that the Holy Spirit would depart the earth with the rapture.

Plainly never made any sense to me.


Blessings, see you all in the rapture.
John G. Tampa, FL

http://endtimepilgrim.org/restrainer.htm




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Email  
Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Marilyn Agee

Hi:

ARE THE TWO WITNESSES ENOCH AND ELIJAH? OR MOSES AND ELIJAH?

> > I have always believed the 2 witntesses of revelation to be Enoch (7th from Adam) and Elijah, very simply because they have never tasted death and GOD took them for a purpose.

> > Later on GOD CONFIRMED this truth to me by the book of NICODEMUS

Chapter: IX (XXV)
> > But the Lord holding the hand of Adam delivered him unto Michael the archangel, and all the saints followed Michael the archangel, and he brought them all into the glory and beauty (grace) of paradise. And there met with them two men, ancients of days, and when they were asked of the saints: Who are ye that have not yet been dead in hell with us and are set in paradise in the body? then one of them answering, said: I am Enoch which was translated hither by the word of the Lord, and this that is with me is Elias the Thesbite which was taken up in a chariot of fire: and up to this day we have not tasted death, but we are received unto the coming of Antichrist to fight against him with signs and wonders of God, and to be slain of him in Jerusalem, and after three days and a half to be taken up again alive on the clouds.
> > Hopefully now this subject can be put to rest.

Not for me.

Why should I believe you are right? The GOSPEL of NICODEMUS, formerly called the ACTS OF PONTIUS PILATE, is not only apocryphal, it is considered to have been conjured up out of someone’s imagination about the middle of the fourth century. Years ago, I read the Acts of Pontius Pilate, then found out that it was a made up story. I don’t accept anything it says as proof of who the two witnesses will be.

As for me, I think the two witnesses will be Moses and Elijah. Why? Below are the Scriptures that tell me. See what they tell you.

ELIJAH

We both agree on Elijah. Mal_4:5 says, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD”.

JESUS’ LONG DAY

The Day of the Lord is the Day of God’s Wrath, not the whole Tribulation, or even the shortened Great Tribulation, as some say. It is one literal day, but in that day this globe will be turned upside down when 2 asteroids hit it (Rev 8:8-11). That will be Jesus’ Long Day, of which Joshua’s Long Day was a type. Jesus’ Long Day will be the first day of the millennial kingdom of Christ. Like Solomon, Jesus will purge his kingdom at the outset.

THE TWO ANOINTED ONES THAT STAND BY THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH

Zech 4:11- 14 says, “WHAT ARE THESE TWO OLIVE TREES upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, THESE ARE THE TWO ANOINTED ONES, THAT STAND BY THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH.”

JESUS, THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH

Jesus is the Lord of the whole Earth. He is LORD of the Old Testament and Lord of the New Testament.

Isa 44:6 says, “Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (his redeemer YHWH of hosts) ; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD.”

THE TWO THAT STAND BY JESUS AT THE TRANSFIGURATION, ELIJAH AND MOSES

Mark 9:2-4 says “And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. 4 And there appeared unto them ELIAS WITH MOSES: and they were talking with Jesus.”

YHWH JESUS CHRIST, THE CREATOR

Prov_30:4 says, “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? (God) what is his name (YHWH), and what is his son's name (Jesus), if thou canst tell?”

Joh 1:3 says, “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

THE SAPPHIRE PAVEMENT REPRESENTED THE SAPPHIRE THRONE OF THE GOD/MAN BORN ON TRUMPETS

Christ is the one that sat on the sapphire pavement at Mt. Sinai (from Sani, Saturn) and gave Israel the ten commandments. He is the God/man that sat on the sapphire throne in Eze 1:26-28. Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. The sapphire is Jesus’ September birthstone, meaning Heaven. He was born on the Feast of Trumpets when the sign of Rev 12 was in the sky, probably Sept 4, 5 BC.

CHRIST GAVE ISRAEL THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WHEN SEATED ON THE SAPPHIRE PAVEMENT

Isa_48:18 says, “O that thou hadst hearkened to my (Christ’s) commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea”.

Exo_24:10 says, “And they saw the God of Israel (Christ): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven (heavenly body, Saturn) in his (or its) clearness”.

SATURN’S RINGS ARE THE LIKENESS OF THE GLORY OF THE LORD

Eze_1:26-28 says, “And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (a God/man, i.e., Jesus, Eze 1:1) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire (it gives off more heat than it gets from the Sun) round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness (Saturn’s rings) round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (i.e., the rainbow like rings). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.”

Eze_10:1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims (i.e., the terrestrial planets) there appeared over them (farther out in space) as it were a sapphire stone (Saturn), as the appearance of the likeness of a throne” (Christ’s).

THE TWO WITNESSES, MOSES AND ELIJAH, APPEARED BEFORE THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH AT THE TRANSFIGURATION

Mat 17:1-4 shows that Moses and Elijah will be the two witnesses. It says, “And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them MOSES AND ELIAS talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.”

Do you agree that the Scriptures show that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses?

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: WHAT IS THE CHURCH SHOWING THE ANGELS?

Eph 3:9,10 says, “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the MYSTERY, WHICH FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HATH BEEN HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers (i.e., to the angels) in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God”.

Does it have anything to do with the Angelic Conflict? The angels were made able to see God, and a portion of them led by Satan sinned. It looks like they were judged and sentenced to prison. Satan must have appealed the sentence. To show the angels something, man was created not being able to see God. Maybe, if man, not being able to see God, could still obey him, God would be shown to be just in putting the angels that sinned in prison.

ASCENSION DAY

I think we will be with the Lord before summer. I am hoping for Ascension Day, May 17, 2012. Jesus acted it out. We are the Body of Christ, and he ascended on Ascension Day.

Acts 1:11 says, “ Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” He is coming in the air, and we will rise up as he rose up. Therefore, I don’t expect it to happen instantaneously, but I do expect it soon. Get ready.

WILL MOSES AND ELIJAH COME DOWN ON ASCENSION DAY?

When we go up, Moses and Elijah may come down. Two men were seen standing on Earth after Jesus ascended. Moses and Elijah were seen with Jesus at the Transfiguration.

Acts 1:9-11 says, “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

PENTECOST AND THE TWO WITNESSES

It looks like the Holy Spirit will descend on the two witnesses, the 144,000 Israelites, and the foolish virgins on Pentecost to get the Temple built. Mid-Trib should be coming up Nov 8/9, 2012. The Temple should be built by then. The first half of the Tribulation probably will turn out to be 1260 days. The last half seems to be 1040 days. See Dan 8:13,14.

The Day of God’s Wrath seems to be the Feast of Trumpets Sept 14, 2015.


Agape,
Marilyn Agee
mjagee@verison.net
------------------------------------------------------

Robert Rose (21 Apr 2012)
"2 Witnesses. The Nail in the COFFIN."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright Guys.....
Seems like every year I have to post the same thing cuz new people are searching for truth. Here it goes again.
I have always believed the 2 witntesses of revelation to be Enoch (7th from Adam) and Elijah, very simply because they have never tasted death and GOD took them for a purpose.
Later on GOD CONFIRMED this truth to me by the book of NICODEMUS
But the Lord holding the hand of Adam delivered him unto Michael the archangel, and all the saints followed Michael the archangel, and he brought them all into the glory and beauty (grace) of paradise. And there met with them two men, ancients of days, and when they were asked of the saints: Who are ye that have not yet been dead in hell with us and are set in paradise in the body? then one of them answering, said: I am Enoch which was translated hither by the word of the Lord, and this that is with me is Elias the Thesbite which was taken up in a chariot of fire: and up to this day we have not tasted death, but we are received unto the coming of Antichrist to fight against him with signs and wonders of God, and to be slain of him in Jerusalem, and after three days and a half to be taken up again alive on the clouds.

Hopefully now this subject can be put to rest.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Email  
Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/ronr423.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Ron Reese (23 Apr 2012)
"The two witnesses--Take it literally"


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THE TWO WITNESSES--TAKE IT LITERALLY

When attending Bible School, many years ago, in Hermeneutics class, we learned about the 23 principles one should use in interpreting Scripture. One of those principles is called "The Direct Statement Principle". The definition is, "That principle under which God says what He means, and means what He says. This is an important principle, and we enunciate this because of the attempts of many people to spiritualize the Word of God, and to make it a mystical book. To many people, God's Word is not to be taken literally at all."

When we start to spiritualize, or allegorize, or interpret Scripture to not be literal, we are standing on dangerous ground. Many liberal denominations, and liberal churches do this all of the time. Once one starts down this road, it is a very slippery slope. If we do not like the literal interpretation of a certain Scripture, we start to take license, and liberty, to attempt to change it to our liking. Soon one is left with believing those Scriptures which suit his fancy, and ignoring the rest. The Word says that, "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God."

To carry "The Direct Statement Priciple" one step further, it means to take every Scripture literally, unless it is not possible to do so. This includes the Book of Revelation, which, to many, is to be taken only as an allegory, or a mystic book. The purpose of this email is to encourage all Bible students to believe that the two witnesses in the Book of Revelation are literally two men.

We have no legitimate reason to believe these two witnesses are the 144, 000, or that they are the Jews and the Church, or anything other than two men. When the Word gives us great detail, PROVING CONCLUSIVELY that these are two men, why should anybody doubt the Word of God, and try to twist the Scripture into meaning something other than what is so obviously stated?

Here is what the Word of God says about the two witnesses, PROVING CONCLUSIVELY that they are LITERALLY TWO MEN:

1. Rev. 11:3--It gives us the exact length of their ministries, and prophecies, of 1260 days.

2. Rev. 11:3--It tells us what they would be wearing--clothed in sackcloth.

3. Rev. 11:5--Fire proceeds out of their mouths, and destroys their enemies. This same thing happened literally in the O.T.

4. Rev. 11:6--These same TWO witnesses have power to stop it from raining.

5. Rev. 11:6--These same TWO witnesses have power to turn water into blood.

6. Rev. 11:6--These same TWO witnesses have power to smite the earth with all plagues. God does not need ALL of the Church, and ALL of the Jews, or 144,000 people, to performed these things in # 3--# 6. All He needs is TWO PROPHETS.

7. Rev. 11:10--This verse should remove ALL doubt in anybody's mind that these two witnesses are literally TWO MEN. It reads, "...THESE TWO PROPHETS tormented them who dwelt on the earth." It is a witness to the awesomeness of God's power, that so much could be accomplished with just TWO PROPHETS.

8. Rev. 11:8--This verse gives us even more detail, by describing the city of Jerusalem, where these TWO PROPHETS are killed.

9. Rev. 11:9--This verse gives us the length of time the TWO PROPHETS lay in the streets of Jerusalem--three and one-half days.

10. Rev. 11:10--The people of the earth shall rejoice over the dead bodies of these TWO PROPHETS, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another.

11. Rev. 11:11--The Spirit of life from God entered into them, and these TWO PROPHETS stood upon their feet, and great fear fell on them which saw them.

12. Rev. 11:12--A great voice said unto the TWO PROPHETS, "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

When the Word of God gives us this much detail about the lives and ministries nd deaths of these two witnesses, and refers to them as TWO PROPHETS, let's not doubt that God says what He means, and means what He says. Anything other than a literal interpretation of these two witnesses, is simply doubting God's ability to communicate to us what He is so obviously saying.

Let us not become like the liberal theologians, and try to spiritualize, or allegorize, the Book of Revelation. We should always take the Scriptures literally unless there is a very good reason not to.

Over the past 40 years, I have read so much speculation on the identity of these TWO MEN, OR TWO PROPHETS. Most, but not all, believe that one of these men is Elijah. The leading candidates to be the other man appear to me Moses, Enoch, and John, although other candidates have been mentioned.

I have read all of reasons why Moses just HAS to be one of them, including that he appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration with Elijah. There are three main reasons why I do not believe that Moses is one of the two witnesses:

1. Moses has already died once.

2. Moses was not a good speaker. His brother, Aaron was his spokesperson. He seems like an unlikely candidate to be seen prophesying, with his mouth, for three and one-half years.

3. The main reason that I don't think Moses is a good fit is that God wants to glorify His Son. He wants the Jews and the rest of the world to be drawn to His Son, Jesus. The Jews would worship Moses, almost like a cult hero, if he should be one of the two witnesses. Moses is a very popular figure in Jewish history.

I maintain that there has to be a reason for God to only Rapture two people in the Old Testament, the same as the number of witnesses in the New Testament. The Word tells us that one of those two, Elijah, would be sent to earth, by God, in the last days. It only makes perfect sense that the only other man to be Raptured, without dying, was Enoch. It is my contention that the two witnesses are probably Elijah and Enoch.

Below is a recent post by Robert Rose. The Book of Nicodemus, although not part of Scripture, names the two witnesses, as Elijah and Enoch. I encourage you to read Robert's post, referenced below:

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/robertr421.htm

Maranatha!

Ron Reese
rgreese49@aol.com


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Email  
Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/davids423.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


David Smith (23 Apr 2012)
"Ponder this: The two witnesses, Daniel and John?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE TWO WITNESSES, DANIEL AND JOHN.

There are only two people in the Scriptures that are given in depth and expanded revelation concerning end time events. Not so coincidently, these same two men are specifically told that they are to play key role in end time events.

Let me reiterate that. Only two men in Scripture are specifically stated to have a role in end time events. All of the other candidates we hear about (Elijah, Moses, Enoch, etc.) cannot be conclusively stated to have a role in end times. One must use their powers of imagination, speculation and finite human logic to match any of the others to the two witnesses’ role.

As was the case with Saul the King, we humans have a tendency to base our choices on things that seem the most credible and logical to us. But YAHWEH’s sovereign choices often have no relationship to human methods of choice.

We may never know why. In fact, it doesn’t matter why, but let’s look at the Scripture and see whom it is that YAHWEH has given the burden/privilege of being the two end time witnesses.

We will begin in Revelation, chapter 10. Before we do, here is a little background to the context of this chapter:

John has been given a vision of the scenarios of what will happen concerning the opening of the seven seals, the sounding of the seven trumpets, and the pouring out of the seven vials. Before we get to chapter 10, John has already been shown “six” of the seven, seals, trumpets and vials.

There is a pause between the revelations of the sixth and seventh events because the seventh one is the worst and most significant event of them all. After the seventh seal, trumpet and vial are completed, time will be no more. All of the wicked will have been destroyed; the earth in ruins and the people of YAHWEH will be almost wiped out.

But YAHWEH’s mercy endures forever! And before He executes this final judgment upon the earth, He offers “two” final “olive branches” to the inhabitants of earth that they might repent and be saved from this final wrath to come. However, we see that the people do no such thing because of the deception of Satan.

Revelation, chapter 10 sets the stage for the final wrath of YAHWEH:

Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

This “mighty angel” is dressed in his heavenly “battle gear”. His purpose for coming down is to orchestrate the final wrath of YAHWEH. We will see shortly who this angel is.

This angel will execute this wrath from the spiritual realm, but YAHWEH will use someone on earth to make manifest this wrath in this realm.

10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

Remember that this angel was standing on the water, with his right foot. We will address this again later.

10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roars: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Notice also that the “voice from heaven” is different from the angel’s voice.

Whatever the angel says here is not for us to know at this time. But it is evident that at the end time, we will know what he is saying. But notice that John DID get to hear what was said, but was told to “seal it” and “write it not”.

The “book” that the angel was holding contained his message. What the angel “thundered” were the words contained in the book. This will become clear in a moment.

Remember that what’s in the book is what the angel will be doing in the spirit realm to effect the wrath of YAHWEH. Someone will be chosen by YAHWEH to effect the wrath in this realm.

John now is the only human being on earth who knows the message of the “mighty angel” at the end. Or is he? No, he is not. This message was previously revealed to another long before John. We will see whom below.

10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
10:6 And swore by him that lives for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

This is it! When the next set of events is complete (the seventh seal, trumpet and vial) that will be the end. The “mighty angel” has been commissioned to execute the final judgment and because the earth has not repented, he now “swears” to make it so.

10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of YAHWEH should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which stands upon the sea and upon the earth.
10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

John was told to retrieve the book for a reason! Why? The reason is because the message in the book, which is to be executed by the mighty angel in the spirit realm, was given to John to execute in the earth realm.

Why was the book “sweet” in his mouth and “bitter” in his stomach? It was “sweet” because he has been given the honor and privilege of being YAHWEH’s witness at the end time. It then gets “bitter” because this task will not be a pleasant one, nor will be his fate at the end of the task. Revelation, chapter 11 records:

11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was crucified.
11:9 And they of the people and kindred’s and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

An unpleasant task with an unpleasant end, a most “bitter” feel in the stomach indeed. Back to chapter 10:

10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

When? When is John to prophesy (or speak words) before many peoples? It is John who will prophecy at the end time as one of the two witnesses, just as the very next chapter explains! He is then given the vision of what will happen to the two witnesses as a result of their mission in chapter 11 of Revelation.

11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Remember that the witnesses are clothed in sackcloth. Sackcloth represents an attitude of repentance. This is the underlying goal of the two witnesses, hoping that the earth will repent of their sins in order to avoid the final wrath to come.

11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the Elohim of the earth.

This is what Zechariah saw in chapter 4, in a vision, proving that YAHWEH was indeed behind the temple rebuilding in Zechariah’s time just as He is behind the rebuilding of His house in the end time.

11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Master was crucified.
11:9 And they of the people and kindred’s and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

These are the same “people” and “tongues” and “nations” that John was told he would prophesy before. The “bitter” end of his testimonies to the people is laid out here.

11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from YAHWEH entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Here is “clear” evidence that John is one of the two witnesses from a direct inference of Scripture rather than a “circumstantial” one. But who is the other one? The identity of the other one should be made from an inference as clear and direct as the ones that indicate John. And in fact, it does just that.

We now go to Daniel, chapter 12.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Chapter 11 and verse 40, which begins the context for chapter 12, shows us that the phrase, “at that time” is referring to “the end time”. It is at the end time that Michael will stand up!

Who is Michael the great prince? Without going into another lengthy study, it should be understood that Michael is the chief “war angel” in the host of YAHWEH. Whenever the host of YAHWEH has fought a battle for Israel or any other, it is Michael who leads the fight from the spirit realm. This is why the angel in Revelation 10 is called “mighty”.

Michael is the same “mighty angel” revealed to John in his vision of Revelation 10:1. Michael is the “mighty angel” who STANDS UP and COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN. It is Michael who cries the “thunderous war cry” right before the seventh seal is broken.

12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

There is a gap of events between verses 1 and 2, but Revelation, chapter 10, is describing the exact same event we are seeing here. The only difference is that the book of Revelation gives significantly more details and vividly fills in the gaps.

12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

What book is being referred to here? And why is Daniel told to “shut up” and “seal” it?

The “book” is the one Michael is holding in his hand. Obviously, this book has been given to Daniel for him to know its contents.

This is exactly what John was told to do regarding his vision. Why is it that Daniel and John are not allowed to reveal the words of the “book”? Because the message is to be held until the “end time”.

Daniel now, as far as he knows, is the only person who ever lived to know the message of Michael. But then Daniel is given a special “treat” in his vision. He is given to know that he is not alone.

12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

Who are the “two” that Daniel saw? They are not the two witnesses, but who they are was astounding to me when I first saw this.

12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

In Daniel’s vision, one of them was clothed in “fine linen”. So what was the other one wearing? Could it be “sackcloth”? Instead of speculating, let’s see if we can identify who these two are.

Remember that we are looking at the same event happening to John in Revelation, chapter 10. The man in “fine linen” was standing “on the waters of the river”, just as described in Revelation, chapter 10. The man in “fine linen” is being asked a question. Continuing on:

12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that lives for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The “mighty angel”, Michael, “lifts up his hands to heaven and swore” just as described in John’s vision. So, we can now conclusively state that the one in the “fine linen” is the “mighty angel” in John’s vision, who has been identified as Michael here!

Why does John give such a “heavenly” description of Michael’s clothing while Daniel only sees “fine linen”? I don’t know. What does it matter? What we do clearly see here is that they are one and the same. The “cloud”, the “rainbow” and the “fine linen” are all symbolic of clothing. The angel will not literally be wearing ANY of these things. And no one on earth will actually “see” him anyway. The name, Michael, means “like unto EL” or “Like God”. The description of the clothing by John is clearly intended to describe one who is “like EL”. And Daniel flat out uses his name, so there is no need for an inference through the description of his appearance.

But who is the OTHER person Daniel “saw” talking to the angel Michael? The answer is simple. All we have to do is look at Revelation’s corresponding vision and see that it was John who was talking to the “mighty angel” in this event.

10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Daniel actually “saw”, by prophetic vision, John the disciple of Yahushua, talking to Michael the mighty angel almost 700 years before John was even born!! How’s that for divine inspiration?

Brethren, if you aren’t sure of YAHWEH’s omniscience and divine authority over the earth, time and space, these passages should open your eyes. There is absolutely NO WAY that Daniel and John could have conspired to produce prophetic visions, approximately 700 years apart, that match one another in exact detail.

This is proof positive that YAHWEH’s word is divine. And that His commandments are real.

So, now we know that John is one of the witnesses. This is proven in both revelation and in Daniel. But who is the other one?

12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my master, what shall be the end of these things?
12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Understand what? What is being referred to is the end time message of the two witnesses that will be “prophesied” to the world at the end time. The wise will understand, and the wicked will continue to do wickedly.

In fact, the world will rejoice at their death for having interfered in their wickedness.

12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12:12 Blessed is he that waits, and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. .

This “lot” is something specifically commissioned to Daniel at the end time. What is Daniels “lot”? The answer should be obvious:

Just like John, Daniel is given to know the “secret’ message of the “book” in the hand of the angel.

Just like John, Daniel has spoken to the “mighty angel”, Michael, about the end time event.

And just like John, YAHWEH has given Daniel a specific work to do at the end time.

As was aforementioned, these two men are the only two men who are specifically mentioned to have an appearance at the end of days. These are also the only two men that have been given in-depth, detailed and even “secret” knowledge of end time events.

Short of a statement that declares, “John and Daniel are the two witnesses”; this is the most conclusive and direct evidence we have from Scripture regarding the two witnesses.

There you have them, the two witnesses, Daniel and John.





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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



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Re: Marilyn Agee: TWO WITNESSES


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http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2012/nando427-1.htm
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Nando (27 Apr 2012)
"The Two Witnesses Moses & Elijah, Gary Stearman Video"

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April 26, 2012 The Two Witnesses Moses & Elijah, Gary Stearman Video


In the video below Mr. Stearman covers the subject of the two witnesses of the book of Revelation which he identifies as Moses and Elijah.

It is easy to arrive at the conclusion of Elijah and Moses from the arguments that he presents in his video, but the inclusion of Moses as the second witness is a little more obscured by the fact that in Jude 9 it is shown that Moses died and Satan fought for his body with Michael. ( 8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them. ). So it is still possible as Lazarus was also resurrected into mortality not immortality by Jesus.
It is an interesting and thought provoking theme of which we will not know the answer till they come or if we get to heaven before they come.
Nando


Elijah the Witness









+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Email