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Bruce Warner (1 March 2012)
"SCRIPTURE 'DIS-PROVES THE PRE-TRIB' RAPTURE POSITION......."

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Dear Doves,

You, first, must accept as the truth what the Scriptures say in (Matthew 24:29) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." and in (Mark13:24) "But in those days following that tribulation..." .

Then they both go on to describe the Day of the Lord rapture of the Church in (Matthew 24:30) "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky..." and in (Mark 13:26) "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...."

The phrase: "At that time" in (Matthew 24:30) and (Mark 13:26) both mean the rapture happens "at that time" "after" or "following" the "tribulation of those days". The phrase; "tribulation of those days" refers back to the tribulation that is described as "shortened and cut short" for the sake of the Church in (Matthew 24:21-22) and (Mark 13:20).

Then they both go on to tell us the Parable of the Fig Tree in (Matthew 24:32) and (Mark 13:2 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." That leaves no doubt that it is the rapture of the Church that is being discussed in these previous Scriptures.

Therefore, the Scriptures tell us that the CHURCH IS RAPTURED AFTER THE TRIBULATION WHICH IS SHORTENED AND CUT SHORT for the Church only.

Now you can understand the following Scriptures:

Revelation 2:10
"....you will have tribulation ten days.....and I will give you the crown of life." (We are given "the crown of life" at the time of our rapture after "ten days tribulation".)

Revelation 7:13-15
"These in white robes - who are they and where did they come from ? These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple."

The Church, after being raptured out of the shortened and cut short great tribulation, is seen in heaven.

Revelation 7:9
"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from every nation, tribe, people and language standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands."

The following Scripture describes a similar great multitude with palm branches whom, after being raised from the dead first at the rapture, join the rest of the raptured Church who are the great multitude holding palm branches and standing before the throne in heaven;

John 12:12
"The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him.."

The 'pre-trib rapture position' is proven to be a fable by the Scriptures.

According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus!

Bruce Warner






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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


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For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/jimmy32.htm

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Jimmy (2 March 2012)
"Mr Warner...."Scripture Dis-Proves the Pre-Trib Rapture Position""


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Sir, I am going to say a few things, and truthfully I am not trying to be mean spirited.

Your "Scripture Dis-Proves the Pre-Trib Rapture Position" is a BLENDERIZING of the scriptures.

I am borrowing that phrase from a good bible teacher.

You have taken Matthew 24, where Christ is speaking to his disciples in Jerusalem about the End of the Age, and if I may express my thoughts in different points.

(1) The Church (Body of Christ) was not even born yet.

(2) All the scriptures you reference are not about the Rapture.

(3) You quote all these scriptures which you claim are about the Rapture, and you don't even quote the Person or the Scriptures which speak of the event.

(4) The Risen Lord taught the Apostle Paul several "Mysteries", two of which are the "Body of Christ" and the "Catching Away of the Body of Christ".

(5) A mystery is a "Secret" in the mind of the Lord till he reveals it.

(6) There maybe hints about it in scripture, but the revealing was given to Paul about the catching away of the Body of Christ.

(7) Now the catching away is described as an event which includes two groups of people those who have died in Christ, and those who are are alive in Christ when the event takes place. That's why the ole saying goes that the dead in Christ get a six-foot jump on us the living. The Dead rise first, and the Living who remain are transformed to meet the Lord in the Air.

( 8 ) Paul in 1 Cor. 10:32 mentions three groups of people "Jews, Gentiles, and the Church of God". You can be a Jew and come to Christ and you are a New Creature. You can be a Gentile and come to Christ and you are a New Creature. What does the Church of God consist, those Jews and Gentiles who are New Creatures in Christ, that is the Body of Christ.

(9) At the Rapture, the catching away of dead and alive believers (Jews and Gentiles who have been born again) leaves two groups of people in this world?

(10) Daniel 9:24-27 gives us the answer "the indignation is determined against the Jewish people and against the city of Jerusalem"

(11) The Lord put a 490 year curse on the Jewish people for not allowing the ground to rest every seventh year. Many Bible Scholars trace from the going forth of the decree for Nehemiah to start rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem to the day the Messiah was cut-off as having fulfilled all but the final 7years.

(12) Daniel's 70th Week, The Time of Jacob's troubles, the Tribulation, and the Great Tribulation are some of the many names, which describe this time period.

(13) Paul almost without exception wrote to the Church, the Body of Christ, and in the past 2,000 years that has been mostly to the Gentiles, with some exceptions of Jews coming to Christ.

(14) Paul taught on Dispensations

(15) It is a Jewish book, we Gentiles have been grafted in "Until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in"

(16) Zechariah wrote that Jerusalem will become a burdensome stone to the whole world, a "Cup of Trembling", people will become drunk over getting Jerusalem away from the Jewish People.

So the tribulation period describes a time when the Jews are back in the Land, the Body of Christ is removed, and the Unbelieving (Gentile) world is just like Hitler, Satanically driven with the idea of destroying the Jewish people, and getting the Land and the City of Jerusalem. Jewish Prophets wrote about the end time battles which transpire: Psalms 83, Isaiah 17, Ezekiel 38-39 etc. leading to the final Battle of Armageddon.

The Jews are backed up in a corner. Battle upon battle. Satan still believes if he eliminates the Jewish people the Messiah can't come, and God will be a Liar.

(17) That's why if the days where not cut short, and Christ doesn't step out of Heaven with his Saints, at the end of the tribulation period, Satanically driven men would destroy the world.


( 18 ) then at his coming Israel mourns Zechariah 12:10 describes "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son". Mr Warner, this is a (Short Version), I have dealt basically with the Body of Christ and Israel.

I may come across as a know it all, but I was raised on this, then I stayed drunk for 20 years because I didn't want to hear it. I knew it was true, but I was running and Praise the Lord, the Hound Dog of Heaven out ran me. I have been serious in my study for the last 20 years.


I apologize for being computer illiterate, and not knowing how to make this more pleasing to the eye to read. Keep Looking Up for the "Blessed Hope" is coming soon.

God Bless, Jimmy






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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/marilyna33-1.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Marilyn Agee (3 March 2012)
"Bruce Warner (1 March 2012) "SCRIPTURE 'DIS-PROVES THE PRE-TRIB' RAPTURE POSITION.......""


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From: Marilyn Agee
Re: Bruce Warner (1 March 2012)
"SCRIPTURE 'DIS-PROVES THE PRE-TRIB' RAPTURE POSITION......."

Hi:

> > You, first, must accept as the truth what the Scriptures say in (Matthew 24:29) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." and in (Mark13:24) "But in those days following that tribulation...".
> > Then they both go on to describe the Day of the Lord rapture of the Church

Truly, “after the tribulation” is the “Day of the Lord rapture”, but it is the Rapture of the lukewarm Laodicean Church, the foolish virgins, the 144,000 Israelites, and other Tribulation saints, the number of which is too great to count (Rev 7:9). It is the Last-Trump Rapture that takes place on the Day of God’s Wrath (Rev 6:17). The Rapture of the Philadelphian Church, the First-Trump Rapture, is before that.

There are two trumpets. Num 10:1-4 says, “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., with them both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee. “

These heads of the thousands of Israel are the 24 elders, of which John is one. They are the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of Israel.

The way “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” is organized is given in Rev 1:19. It says, “Write the things which thou hast seen (i.e., before the First-Trump Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the First-Trump Rapture), and the things which shall be HEREAFTER” (after the First-Trump Rapture).

Rev 4:1 is talking about the First-Trump Rapture. It says, “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER.”

John is to come up hither to Heaven. Then he is to be shown things that will happen after the First-Trump Rapture. Soon, we will see him seated with the other 23 elders in Heaven. All 24 were caught up in the First-Trump Rapture.

Rev 4:2-4 says, “And immediately I (John) was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (the first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (the last stone in the breastplate, therefore it is Christ, the first and the last): and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (Judah’s stone in the breastplate, i.e., Christ is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats (lit., thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting (all were just then caught up in the Rapture, including John), clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.“

How did the 12 patriarchs and the 11 apostles of Israel get to Heaven along with John? in the First-Trump Rapture, of course.

Who else suddenly appears in Heaven? people from all nations, not just Israel, and they sing a new song. Rev 5:9 says, “And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation”.

After the Last-Trump Rapture, only the 144,000 can sing the NEW SONG. Rev 14:1-5 says, “I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND (Israelites), which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.”

There are different ranks in the First Resurrection (I Cor 15:23).

> > Revelation 7:13-15 says, "These in white robes - who are they and where did they come from ? These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple."

Notice the difference between the two groups that are raptured. Those in the first group do not have to wash their robes in the blood of Christ. The second group has to do it. Those in the first group become “kings and priests” (Rev 5:10). The second group is to “serve him day and night in his temple” (Rev 7:15).

Agape,
Marilyn Agee
mjagee@verizon.net
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Dear Doves,
You, first, must accept as the truth what the Scriptures say in (Matthew 24:29) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." and in (Mark13:24) "But in those days following that tribulation..." .
Then they both go on to describe the Day of the Lord rapture of the Church in (Matthew 24:30) "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky..." and in (Mark 13:26) "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...."
The phrase: "At that time" in (Matthew 24:30) and (Mark 13:26) both mean the rapture happens "at that time" "after" or "following" the "tribulation of those days". The phrase; "tribulation of those days" refers back to the tribulation that is described as "shortened and cut short" for the sake of the Church in (Matthew 24:21-22) and (Mark 13:20).
Then they both go on to tell us the Parable of the Fig Tree in (Matthew 24:32) and (Mark 13:2 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." That leaves no doubt that it is the rapture of the Church that is being discussed in these previous Scriptures.
Therefore, the Scriptures tell us that the CHURCH IS RAPTURED AFTER THE TRIBULATION WHICH IS SHORTENED AND CUT SHORT for the Church only.
Now you can understand the following Scriptures:
Revelation 2:10
"....you will have tribulation ten days.....and I will give you the crown of life." (We are given "the crown of life" at the time of our rapture after "ten days tribulation".)
Revelation 7:13-15
"These in white robes - who are they and where did they come from ? These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple."
The Church, after being raptured out of the shortened and cut short great tribulation, is seen in heaven.
Revelation 7:9
"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from every nation, tribe, people and language standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands."
The following Scripture describes a similar great multitude with palm branches whom, after being raised from the dead first at the rapture, join the rest of the raptured Church who are the great multitude holding palm branches and standing before the throne in heaven;
John 12:12
"The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him.."
The 'pre-trib rapture position' is proven to be a fable by the Scriptures.
According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus!
Bruce Warner


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com

Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2012/brucew33-2.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bruce Warner (3 March 2012)
"IN ALL OF MY YEARS OF SCRIPTURAL STUDIES I HAVE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION......."

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Dear Doves,

To the best of my knowledge: Of the twelve months of the Hebrew Liturgical (Spiritual) Year, I believe that the first-month of Nisan is the most likely month in which our rapture will happen. Of the thirty-days of the month of Nisan, I believe that Nisan 11, the Day of Palms, is the most likely day on which our rapture.will happen. I believe that the rapture will happen on Nisan 11 in a year prior to May 14, 2018 which is the 70th 'generational' birthday of the Nation of Israel.

Come Lord Jesus!

Bruce Warner


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum, ( http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com ) does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven


Our New Website URL
http://www.rapturebibleprophecyforum.com