Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 
THERE IS NO RAPTURE

WHY THE TITLE RAPTURE BIBLE PROPHECY FORUM?
WE STARTED OUT BELIEVING IN A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE
BUT FOUND OVER TIME AROUND 2006 THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SHARE A 
BIBLE VERSE WHATSOEVER INDICATING A 7 YR PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

BIBLE VERSES EVIDENCE:

While Yahusha/JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

Yahusha/JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)


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THE BOOK OF ENOCH

NOW IS THE TIME!

 FOR A REMOTE GENERATION THE LAST GENERATION FOR THE ELECT!

Book of Enoch: http://tinyurl.com/BkOfEnoch

The book of Second Peter and Jude Authenticate the book of Enoch and Vice Versa

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If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2011/bge228-6.htm

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If this is TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION?



Are we already in the TRIBULATION?

PreWrath Rapture position would make sense?

What say YOU?





http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2011/bge228-6.htm

If you believe in Pretribulation Rapture please look at all the information and videos on this link before sharing your comments.

Would love to read comments from ALL believers: Pre Tribulation , PreWrath, MidTrib etc....thanks!







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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.



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Disclaimer: Rapture Forum, does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Steven

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Somewhere we learnt that there are 70 interpretations or fulfillments of a Bible or Torah verse.

So there could be 70 interpretations or fulfillments for this Bible or Torah word 'TRIBULATION' as it could mean WRATH, GREAT TRIBULATION, SUFFERINGS, PERSECUTIONS, Terrible TIMES, Testings&Trials&Tortures, Those DAYS or many many etc etc...

So unless we are RAPTUREd, we are already in some form of TRIBULATION for 2000years which is just 2DAYs in GOD's EYE.

3rd DAY HE RAISE us UP...so could there be another RAPTURE after the 1st RAPTURE?

Let all Christians be opened to another Brother/Sister's Belief/View/Interpretation of certain passages which the SAME HOLY SPIRIT has convinced them and not to allow these BELIEFs/VIEWs/Interpretations hinder/stumble another's FAITH.

May God Fulfil ALL HIS WORD ACCORDING TO HIS WILL IN HIS INSPIRED WORD.

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

250 reasons for PRE-TRIB Rapture
http://www.jesusisthecomingking.com/2011/03/250-reasons-for-pre-trib-rapture.html

quoted some of these posted by Donna of RITAnow...

39. The tribulation (all 7 years of it) is distinctly JEWISH in nature.

40. In the Church, there is NEITHER Jew or Gentile, but ALL are ONE in Christ’s BODY. Ephesians 2:11-22. Galatians 3:28.

41. Yet in the tribulation, there IS a distinction. Revelation 7:1-17 --144,000 sealed servants from the twelve tribes of Israel. Jeremiah 30:7 --which speaks of the tribulation as “Jacob’s trouble.”

42. During the chapters of Revelation which gives DETAILS about the tribulation, the Church is not mentioned--not even ONCE. From Revelation 6 through Revelation 18.

43. The Church is the KEY player (sharing the Gospel) from Acts to Jude.

44. The Church is KEY player in Revelation 1 to 5, AND is seen again in Revelation 19 to 22.

45. There’s an ABSENCE of TEACHING about the TRIBULATION in KEY “Church-related” Bible passages. That’s why there is NO INSTRUCTION given to the Church on how to LIVE THROUGH the tribulation. BECAUSE the Church will NOT need to know HOW TO SURVIVE the tribulation. The Church will NOT be in it!

46. When ISRAEL was CENTRAL in the Old Testament, the Church was a MYSTERY.

47. When Israel was the CENTRAL FOCUS in the Gospels, the Church is virtually unmentioned.

48. When the CHURCH is the FOCUS in Acts through Jude, ISRAEL is NOT mentioned (EXCEPT when the Apostles told THE CHURCH to NOT to deem themselves better--ISRAEL will be grafted back in. PLUS there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) in the CHURCH, but ALL are the BODY OF CHRIST).

49. The Church is CENTRAL in Revelation 1 to 3 (mentioned 19 times), and is also seen in Revelation 4 and 5 in the description of the 24 elders. Israel is NOT mentioned in those first chapters.

50. When Israel is in FOCUS IN Revelation 6 to 18, the Church is NOT mentioned.

51. Only when God’s PURPOSE for BOTH the Church and Israel is finished--then God SPEAKS of them TOGETHER. Revelation 19 to 22.

52. There are NO passages in either the Old or New Testament which SPECIFICALLY SAYS that the Church will go through the tribulation. (Try to find where it SPECIFICALLY SAYS that the Church will be IN the tribulation--it can’t be found!)

53. The tribulation is called THE TIME of “Jacob’s Trouble” Jeremiah 30:7. The tribulation is NEVER called the time of “The Church’s Trouble.”

54. The Church has NO PART in the first 69 weeks of Daniel’s prophecy, and it will have NO PART in the final 70th week either!

55. The GODLY REMNANT of the tribulation have descriptions and attributes upon them--THE SAME as seen upon Old Testament ISRAEL. The Church is NOT present during that time--there are NO “Church-related descriptions” upon tribulation saints.

56. THE Pre-Trib view (UNLIKE Mid-Trib, Post-Trib and Pre-Wrath), does NOT CONFUSE terms like “elect” and “saints” OF THE TRIBULATION with the Church. Terms like CHURCH and IN CHRIST apply ONLY to those who are IN the BODY OF CHRIST in THIS AGE, and these terms are NEVER found in passages which relate to the tribulation.

57. Israel is NOT cut-off from the COVENANTS that God gave them. But blindness (in part) will be their destiny UNTIL the Church is complete. Acts 15:14-16. Romans 11:1 and Romans 11:25-27.



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MY comments:-

The Problem of this word 'TRIBULATION' and the unknown SHORTENED PERIOD of the WEEK (2300days?) had LED TO the CONFUSION and I BELIEVE IS GOD's WILL to CONFUSE satan so that GOD COULD SNATCH HIS BRIDE at an UNKNOWN time and yet DELAYING the NORMAL WEEK and SHORTENing for ELECT's SAKE.

When Christ has TARRIED 2 years into the FAMINE WEEK,
CHRIST will be revealed to HIS BRETHREN the Tribes of ISRAEL AGAIN.

This would be the TIME of JACOB's TROUBLE (week?)

I believe it will be shortened to 2300(shortened) days.

THUS Fulfilling PRE TRIB(WRATH) and although we are already in TRIBULATION(PERSECUTION) PERIOD.

When satan therefore knows that JESUS has thus shortened his time to destroy ISRAEL...he is wrath with the woman, right?

Revelation:12:12: "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Hi Steven, thanks a lot for posting this.
First of all I want to make sure that the writers didn't quote wrongly what Pastor Mark Blitz has said. Pastor Mark Blitz didn't even say about the rapture. See his own response to this kind of argument in his website:

http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/stipulation.html

So I think there are still legitimate reasons for both arguments either pretrib or prewrath, one of them could be right, there is no surety in this sense.

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Hi Mike,

Excellent comments

I appreciate your ability to make sense of the posting sharing Mark Biltz info.


Hi Gimel,

Excellent that you would share the link of what "EXACTLY" Mark Biltz stated about the Rapture.

I have had this information by Mark Biltz that you posted and I do appreciate you making sure that Mark Biltz is understood in the "Proper Context"

My reason for posting the thread initially is just for "DISCUSSION AND DIALOGUE"

So Mike & Gimel I enjoy reading your comments and thoughts on this matter!!!

Maranatha!!


Steven

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

I myself believe either pretrib or prewrath but certainly NOT postrib. Both have adequate reasons to believe.
Prewrath with 2008 begins tribulation with Obamba 30 minutes speech with the goal in 2014/2015.
Pretrib with 2011/2012 deadline for beginning the peace treaty with the goal in 2017/2018.

I just watch diligently because now anytime the rapture could happen anytime now, and both agree about this with different reasons.

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Thanks Steven & Gimel and I certainly enjoy the discussions in this website!

I believe there is more than meets the eye for every word & letter & even punctuations in the WORD of God.

The word Wrath may certainly mean Tribulation but Tribulation contains more general meanings and includes persecutions of satan in this world.

Christians are certainly not meant for God's Wrath and definitely Pre-Wrath is True.

Believe that Wrath of God is VERY VERY NEAR...looking at the signs in heaven, earth, human unrests...

These are signs and the beginning of sorrows before the WORSE PERIOD.
Judgement are not signs right?

Is Mark Biltz spelt as Biltz or Blitz?

Because human see things or pronounce names or hear or interpret differently and so many confusion caused due to different cultures/languages/etc.

If it was written and recorded down the same name Blitz or Biltz and 2000years later...does it mean that there were 2 persons Mark Biltz and Mark Blitz?

Get what I mean?

'Wrath' may be used by person A and 'Tribulation' may be used by person B.
So could it be that Wrath is Tribulation?
ONLY GOD KNOWS.

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Mike I prefer 42 months period of trib or wrath time whatever the name is simply because this was said many many times in the past even in Daniel and Revelations while 7 years period rarely mentioned directly refers to tribulation/hard time but only referring to the coming of Yahshua, the last seven weeks etc. But I don't know for sure too, because this is really a difficult subject for us to be sure as many many interpretations arise.

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Gimel Israel
Mike I prefer 42 months period of trib or wrath time whatever the name is simply because this was said many many times in the past even in Daniel and Revelations while 7 years period rarely mentioned directly refers to tribulation/hard time but only referring to the coming of Yahshua, the last seven weeks etc. But I don't know for sure too, because this is really a difficult subject for us to be sure as many many interpretations arise.


Agree with you Gimel that this subject is really difficult for us and perhaps we will never fully understand before Rapture.

Could it be that 42months means 42 x (60days per moon) let's say after rapture...the moon slow down while the earth spins faster.
note:currently earth is spinning slower from 360to365.25, the moon spins faster from 30days to 29.5days per month.

Could it be that 42months is enough for the earth to spin 7 rounds the sun? knowing that 1 round is 1 year.

if that's the case...6 or 7 months is 1 year instead?

till now...it is interesting to note and NOT to assume Tribulation(WRATH) period has same MOON(DAYS) YEAR(MONTHS) since THOSE DAYS SHORTENED by unknown factor right?

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Mike, I am thinking that suppose we lived in those days of Apostles.
When they received the Revelation and mentioning 42 months, what they had in mind? of course 42 months according to Jewish Calender, 42 x 30 days. This was strengthened by the explanation of duration of days in that 42 months which is just 42 x 30 = 1260 days.
What I am thinking is that the earth would rotate faster, 1 day is just 16 hours. So 1 month still have 30 days but with less hours.
So 1 year would still have 12 months, 360 days but less total hours, because the earth spins faster.
Comparing to our length of time, 42 months period in those days would have the same length of time as if we have only 28 months or 2 years 4 months length of time in our current day (note the different is only in hours not in days or months of a year).
So instead of 2017, it becomes 2015/2016 and instead of 7 years, it becomes only 5 years making a good case still for 2011 (or 2013?), even stronger for the rapture of the church.

Re: If TRUE then what about the 7 year PRE TRIBULATION? What does a PRE Tribulation believer think?

Revelation did not equate the 2 periods...

2 Witnesses come around Rapture Time for 1260days.
Abomination period may be 7months later.
So can we say 42months started at the same time?

We should not equate 1260days as 42months because these 2 periods may not occur in the same time although they could possibly OVERLAP each other.

since the days are different...the days could be within or outside the 42months.


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Technically speaking...

If the earth spins faster...the gravitational forces and magnetic field attraction with the moon would reduce so that the moon would slows down relatively...

360day to 365.25days has a small change (1.4%) therefore the month changes slightly too from 30 to 29.5days (roughly 1.6%)

if say 30% change from 365.25 to 243 days...the month may be changed from 29.5 to 40 days say 1 third more.

Just find this interesting...

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

Moon is drifting farther away from the earth...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090207001056AAxIFCv

Orbital Speed
http://www.freemars.org/jeff/speed/index.htm
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The speed (v) of a satellite in circular orbit is:

v = SQRT(G * M / r)

where G is the universal gravitational constant (6.6726 E-11 N m2 kg-2), M is the mass of the combined planet/satellite system (Earth's mass is 5.972 E24 kg), and r is the radius of the orbit measured from the planet's center. "SQRT" means "square root".

Using these values gives the speed in meters per second.

The period (P) of a satellite in circular orbit is the orbit's circumference divided by the satellite's speed:

P = 2 * pi * r / v

Using values in metric units, as above, gives the period in seconds. (pi = 3.14159...)

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Gravitational pulls from the Moon and Sun are the strongest forces perturbing orbits of Earth satellites above 40,000 km.

Off-center gravitational pull from Earth's equatorial bulge is the strongest force perturbing orbits of satellites between 500 km and 40,000 km.

Atmospheric drag is the strongest force perturbing orbits of Earth satellites below 500 km. Dense satellites with small cross-sectional area are affected less than light satellites with large area. A very dense satellite might just make a full orbit starting at 100 km.
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Satellites in elliptical orbit move faster than the circular speed while near perigee, and slower than the circular speed while near apogee. The period of a satellite in any orbit, circular or elliptical, is given by Kepler's third law:

P = 2 * pi * SQRT(r3 / G * M)

where r is the mean radius of the orbit -- that is, the apogee plus the perigee (measured from the planet's center) divided by two, or half the major axis of the ellipse.
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my comments:-

if r = distance between Earth and satelite increases...the orbital speed of satelite decreases.

so if earth's speed increases say 1.3x, the moon is farther away due to reduced gravitational pull...so the moon will slows down at a percentage of v = SQRT (1/1.3x).
The Period P of moon say 29.5days =
2 * pi * r / v
= 2 * pi * r / SQRT(G * M / r)

The Period P will therefore increase if r is 1.3x

= 2 * pi * 1.3r / SQRT (G * M / 1.3r)
= 1.3 / SQRT (1/1.3) times of 29.5days
estimated 40days?