Rapture Bible Prophecy Forum

(Rapture is a Vatican/Jesuit Lie )
The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

Hebrew 5778-5782   Gregorian 2018-2022







While JESUS was alive, He prayed to His Father: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  John 17:15 (KJV)

JESUS gave signs of what must happen before His Return:  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"  Matt. 24:29 (KJV)

 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." I Thess. 4:16-17 (KJV)

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."  I Corin. 15:52

The "Resurrection" has been erroneously labeled The "Rapture". 

  9 For God/JESUS hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by JESUS



       We are followers of JESUS Only

 Seekers of the truth start here by praying

to the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. 

Acts 17:10-12

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.






John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things

Ps 122:6

Psa. 122:6   Pray  shalom Jerusalem:3389/3384 (to flow as waters):  prosper love. 7 Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces. 8 For my brethren and companions’ sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee. 9 Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.


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Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Hi Mike, first of all I am confused with your question of the Torah version of 1 Thes 5: 3 because Torah is the book of old testaments and it doesn't consist of new testaments. Secondly, I don't have the Bible in Hebrew but only Torah (I mean here is Bible minus new testament). My Bible is all in English versions and I have some of them that : One of them is Hebraic roots Bible that the author translates directly from original Hebrew to English and Aramaic manuscript to English. The others are David Stern Complete Jewish Bible (also in English) and King James version.

Anyway these what I found:
According to Hebraic Roots Bible: 1 Thes 5:3
For when they say, Peace and safety! then suddenly destruction comes upon them, like the travail to the woman with child, and not at all shall they escape.

According to David Stern's CJB: 1 Thes 5:3
When people are saying, "Everything is so peaceful and secure," then destruction will suddenly come upon them, the way labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there is no way they will escape.

If you noticed that 1 Thes 5:3 in one of those two verses use secure instead of safe and we now the noun form of secure is security. Also I looked in my Hebrew dictionary of word safety and security, thecy could have the same word: Bisakhon which could mean either safety or security. But since I don't have Bible in Hebrew language, I could not confirm that. But if safety to be used interchangeably with security, I guess they should use Bisakhon.

But as David Stern CJB uses "secure" then it is possible that what Andy said might be true, safety = security.

Hope this helps you :)

Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Thanks Gimel for your wonderful reply which clarifies the word safety could also mean secure or security.

Sorry for confusion because I thought Torah includes New Testament.

It is good that you have the Hebraic Roots Bible!

Hope that this Peace & Safety is Peace & Security mentioned by Obama & Netanyahu (they) say...this means we are so very near the Blessed Hope!

Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Hello Mike,

Now that Gimel has answered I was hoping I could share this little bit of information.

Marvin Rosenthal (Jewish ) wrote a book called the PREWRATH RAPTURE of the church.

Marvin studied the bible with a knowledge of Hebrew and his book is all about that the Wrath of God does not happen until after the sixth seal.(abomination of desolation)

Marvin also lead a Christian ministry (30 years)
and at that time believed in a 7 year pre tribulation.

Marvin when he did his indepth study of the rapture of the church had to resign from the ministry he started because they did not allow for a Prewrath rapture position only a PRE TRIBULATION rapture.

If you read the articles on this site about the Rapture then you may find some answers that do not believe in a pre tribulation rapture like some of the other forums.

One reason I started this forum was to be able to discuss all points of view and not to restrict us from discussing all positions.

Ron Reese, as do many others all ready believe we are in the seven year window. Ron believes that back in 2008 pResident Obama made the pact with many.

Ron also believes that the return of Christ will be in 2015 on the day of atonement I believe. ( See Ron Reese articles on this site)


Many of you are going to have questions. Please feel free to respond to these letters to my email address at the bottom. I do not know all of the answers. The Lord has not revealed to me the whole picture of these Final Seven Years. I may not get ANY more revelations concerning the future. This revelation came supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and was confirmed supernaturally by the Lord Himself. As I have already stated, it went against some of what I had been taught and probably what most of you had been taught. I am not sure if we are in the Tribulation yet or not.

BUT THE 7OTH WEEK OF DANIEL, THE FINAL 7 YEARS HAVE BEGUN, AS OF OCT. 29, 2008!!! Of that, I am now sure

The video links by Mark Biltz (Hebrew Roots Pastor)on the home page of this website and you will see that back in 2008 they believe the seven year period began and will end on the day of Atonement in 2015.

Mark Biltz Solar Lunar Eclipse Videos



My thinking is if ONE POSITION IS TRUE then it will prevail. So why not allow for discussion?

Here is one Article that you might find interesting!

Defining the Great Tribulation

For Fair Use Discussion and Education


Defining the Great Tribulation

In movies like The Omega Code and Left Behind, as well as in many popular fiction and prophecy books, such as the popular Left Behind series, the time period to be most dreaded is “the Tribulation period.” This is the time that will witness the rise of the Antichrist, the mark of the beast, the martyrdom of millions of believers, and a series of earthquakes, famines, pestilence, and supernatural disasters like the world has never seen.

If we want to learn more about the Tribulation period, where in the Bible can we find reference to it?

There is no time period in the Bible called “the Tribulation.” If you look in any Bible concordance under “tribulation,” you will find many references to the general trials and tribulations Jesus promises that believers will experience as part of their relationship to Him. You will also find a specific time period called the “Great Tribulation,” which is mentioned by name twice (Matt. 24:21, Rev. 7:14) and is clearly referenced in Mark 13:24.

What does the Bible say about the Great Tribulation?

Defining “the Great Tribulation”

The first reference is in Matthew 24, when Jesus' disciples come to Him and ask, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Matt. 24:3) Jesus responds by giving them a long list of signs that includes the rise of false christs, wars and rumors of wars, nation rising against nation, famines, earthquakes, and pestilences in various places. “Then," He says, "they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake” (v. 9).

A few verses later, Jesus continues, “Therefore, when you see the `abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.... For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor even shall be (Matt. 24:15–21).

Notice something very important here. The Great Tribulation starts after the abomination of desolation, which according to Dan. 11:31, is the time when the Antichrist desecrates the temple in Jerusalem. According to Dan. 9:27 and Dan. 11:31, this event will occur at the midpoint of — three and one-half years into — what many people call the “Tribulation period.” By the time the Great Tribulation occurs, the Antichrist will have been in power for more than three-and-one-half years!

Glorious Appearance in the Sky

After this, Jesus answers the disciples' question: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Matt. 24:29–31).”
Do not miss the impact of these words: “immediately after the tribulation of those days...” In other words, the Great Tribulation starts at the midpoint of this seven-year time period and ends with the cosmic disturbances. A quick reference to Rev. 6:12-13 reveals that these cosmic disturbances are the same as the sixth seal: “I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind” (Rev. 6:12–13).

According to scripture, then, the Great Tribulation is a short, intense period of persecution that starts after the midpoint of the seven-year “Tribulation” period and ends before the opening of the sixth seal. Jesus Himself makes a note of this, saying, “Unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved...” (Matt. 24:22). This makes sense since, not only is this an intense time of persecution, but following the sixth seal, there are still 14 more judgments to come: the seven trumpets and the seven bowls.

What This Means for You

When Christians hear people talking about “the Tribulation” period and the rapture of the Church, they should be aware of what the Bible actually teaches. There is no such thing as “the Tribulation period.” There is only the Great Tribulation, which starts after the midpoint of the Antichrist's reign and ends before the sixth seal.

This means that the Church will be on earth during the first half of the Antichrist's reign. And if Jesus actually returns for His Church following the sixth seal (as the Bible teaches), the implications for believers are important. How will you handle the rise of the Antichrist? Will you stand firm for Christ during the great persecution? Will you resist the giving of the mark?

Jesus told His children to be “wise as serpents, but harmless as doves” (Matt.10-16). We are to know His truth, through His Word, so that we can stand firm for the gospel and resist error. This is why it is imperative that Christians not rely solely on the teaching of their pastors, television evangelists, and book authors as sources of biblical doctrine, but read their own Bibles and understand the truths that God is communicating.


May this help you and lead you to other articles posted on this site that may help you to answer your questions.

Pre Wrath Articles

God Bless you and Gimel for your participation on this site.

Many are brainwashed that ONLY PRE TRIBULATION is the answer. I do not know but I do believe a HEALTHY DIALOGUE of the scriptures will lead us to the TRUTH.

God Bless


Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Could Elenin be part of the sixth seal?

We will see......

6th Seal
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;
and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes



What About Revelation 6:17?

In my last column, I talked about the scriptural definition of God's wrath, identifying it as part of the Day of the Lord, which begins after the opening of the sixth seal. This definition is important because it means that there is no scriptural basis to require believers to be raptured before this point in time. Those who point to the scriptural promise in 1 Thess. 5:9, “We are not destined for wrath,” as requiring the Church to be raptured prior to the beginning of the 70th Week (and therefore, prior to the opening of the first seal) are operating under a mistaken definition of God's wrath.

There are those who would argue with this statement, pointing to Revelation 6:17 as proof that God's wrath has begun prior to the opening of the sixth seal. This is because, once the sun turns black, the moon turns to blood, and the stars fall from the sky, the mighty men cry, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” If the great day of His wrath has come, they argue, God's wrath has already begun. Since this is uttered at the end of the seals, God's wrath must go back to the beginning of these seal judgements, to include seals one through five, as well.

Even in the best of scenarios, this is a stretch. A natural reading of the text tells us that, when the mighty men cry, “the great day of God's wrath has come,” they are not referring back to the beginning of the 70th Week. Rather, they are sending up this cry based on what is happening to them at the very moment that Christ appears in the clouds and the rocks start tumbling down upon them — immediately after the opening of the sixth seal. It is the unique set of cosmic disturbances in the sun, moon, and stars, followed by the dramatic appearance of Christ Himself ("hide us from the face of the Lamb!"), that causes them to realize that the end of things is at hand. It is just as Paul predicted they would do in his first epistle to the Thessalonians, where he compares them to those who sleep and are drunk at night.

In addition to the natural reading of the text, there are many additional reasons that this verse refers to a future (albeit imminent) outpouring of wrath. They are covered in detail in the fourth chapter of my book, Before God's Wrath, so I will not go into them here.

The "Great Day of God's Wrath"

The only one I want to draw readers' attention to is this:

Rather than using reasoning to prove that God's wrath is imminent but in the future, as part of the Day of the Lord, which begins with the seventh seal, it would be nice if we could find direct, incontrovertible scriptural evidence that this is so. Indeed, we have such proof. Notice that the mighty men cry, “the great day of God's wrath has come.” They do not say, “God's wrath has come.” They mention God's wrath only as part of a larger construction, the great day of God's wrath. Does this larger construction have a clear identification as a prophesied event? If so, can we identify when this event will occur? Absolutely — the great day of God's wrath is a synonym for the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord is a specific time period extensively documented in both the Old and New Testaments. It was identified by Old Testament Jews as the day when the Messiah would come and set everything right. Israel's enemies would be destroyed, the people of Israel would be delivered, and the Messiah would usher in everlasting peace. For God's enemies — and, therefore, Israel's enemies — it would be a terrifying time, one when God's righteous anger would be poured out upon the wicked and unbelieving. Zephaniah identifies this as “a day of wrath” (Zeph. 1:15) and Isaiah calls it “the day of His fierce anger” (Isaiah 6:13). Peter, Paul, and Luke also refer to it several times in their letters.

Now, in Rev. 6:17, John records the mighty men of the earth crying, “the great day of His wrath has come!” Could the “great day of His wrath” be a synonym for the Day of the Lord? It seems most likely. The Day of the Lord has many synonyms, each using “the Day of...”construction. This includes the Day of Jesus Christ, the Day of His Wrath, and the Day of His Fierce Anger, among others. The Great Day of His Wrath is one of them.

Clear, Unambiguous Signs

Keep in mind that the relationship between the Great Day of God's Wrath, or the Day of the Lord, and this unique combination of cosmic disturbances seems foreign only in our modern culture. It certainly was no mystery to John's readers. The first century Jews were intimately familiar with the Old Testament scriptures. They had been looking for the Messiah for generations. When the sixth seal is broken, it isn't simply the ensuing calamity that causes the men in John's vision to cry, “the great day of God's wrath has come!” It is the specific combination of the sun turning dark, the moon turning to blood, and the stars falling from the sky, which they recognize as the signs given to us by the Old Testament prophets as the beginning of the Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Isaiah 13:10, Ezekiel 32:7). It is only in our culture, two thousand years later, that we have lost a sense of the significance of this specific combination of cosmic events. That this is followed by the appearance of Christ Himself (Rev. 6:16) make this evidence incontrovertible.

Thus, the reference to God's wrath is relevant only as part of the larger event of the Day of the Lord, which encompasses many other events, including the sealing of the 144,000, the trumpet judgments, the bowl judgments, the final acceptance of Jesus the Messiah by the believing remnant of Israel, the judgment of the nations, and the crowning of the Messiah as King of kings and Lord of lords.

The outpouring of God's wrath is only one of these many events, and all scriptural indications are that it does not commerce right away. A loose example might be awaiting a fierce battle as part of a war. The battle itself does not begin once war is declared. The declaration of war simply paves the way for troops to be readied, battle plans to be drawn, and battles to be executed. Like the other events of the Day of the Lord, God's wrath happens in its proper succession, as part of God's perfect timing.

Thus, the cry, “the great day of God's wrath has come,” does not mean that those making this statement are experiencing God's wrath. Rather, it tells us that the mighty men realize that they have entered this final period of judgement, called the Day of God's Wrath, during which God's wrath will be poured out. Indeed, it is only after the completion of the seven trumpet judgements and prior to the outpouring of the bowl judgements, in Rev. 11:18, that we see the actual arrival of God's wrath: “The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints...”

After this pronouncement is made, the seven angels, indeed, begin to pour out the bowls of God's wrath upon the earth:

“Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, `Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth...”(Rev. 15:6-16:1).

Only now, as the 70th Week draws to a close, has God's wrath begun

Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Hi Steven,

I believe in both Pre-trib and Midst of Trib being possibly fulfilled concurrently all according to God's Word.

If Obama is the AntiChrist...I believe that 2008 already marked the start of tribulation period...maybe the dead are all being raised first while we which are alive and yet remain shall be going through longsuffering as Jesus shortens the Tribulation Period further.

If Obama is just a cover up...and Prince Hassan or another AntiChrist being revealed...then this means Pre-Trib too.

I like your style being open to all positions for discussion more than other websites.

To me, I have stated, Our Longsuffering, their short Torturings.

This means that our Tribulation sufferings is nothing compared with their Great Tribulation Torturings.

The PROBLEM of Knowing whether PRE-TRIB or not is not as important than knowing PRE-WRATH.
SINCE NO ONE KNOWS how much JESUS is going to shorten these DAYS...24hours to 16hours??? I don't know.

I am sure We are going to be Raptured PRE-WRATH which is defintely TRUE.

I believe we are near the 6th seal event too.

But it may be 1 to few years before Antichrist sits in the 3rd Temple which begins the 1335days....

It is possible that when they say 'Peace & Safety' then Sudden Destruction of 1 third of the Earth...God is sure to take control!

I believe that Gog/Magog war is a shortened 7years before Armageddon...or I am saying we may be raptured before Russia being destroyed and weapons burning 7years shortened period.

There is still this Jacob's Trouble of 7years.

There is still this Generation of 70years from 1948 which is around 2017 using 360days calendar.

we are 6.5years from this 2017 year.

This 2017 year is of shortened days...meaning using 365.25days from now is only year 2015.

I would not want to confuse anyone here but I sensed that the days shall be shortened so much that fulfills the Heaven Departing as a Scroll in the Rapture Event.

We just continue while it is day...and the night is coming that we can not work.

JESUS said...
John:9:4: "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work."

Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Yes Mike, in mathematical term, pre-wrath includes pretrib but not otherwise, because when it is prewrath, it could happen way before even before 7 years, but also could happen just right before the last 3.5 years of the AC in power. Interesting.

However, I like to see it from the view of Israel's salvation. From the view that as we believe in Yahshua we are the Gentiles are literally plucked to the branch and becomes Citizen of Israel.

Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

I think many people refused to use the word citizenship instead of commonwealth because as commonwealth, people don't bear the obligation burdened to them as if you are citizen of Israel. Now being a citizen of Israel, I mean a citizen of the coming Kingdom of Heaven but which also plays partly currently as a precursor for the coming Kingdom of Christ on earth literally. As we are in blood relation to Yahshua, we are His and as He is the King of Israel (will be anointed soon) then we are all become the citizen of Israel (at least at the coming Kingdom).

Related to this, I thought salvation to Israel will come as YHWH will change the heart of Israel as Ezekiel predicted thousand of years ago. When I carefully read Jeremiah, it is when Israel returned to God again, believed in Him again, they together with all of us who believe in Yahshua becomes the Bride of Yahshua. In a pretrib view, there are separation between Israel and the church, but if we connected the old testament and the new testament, they should imho pointed to the same event, the rapture of the church, prophesied by many of prophets as well apostles of Yahshua. I don't think separation works but I myself tend to believe about a new one man in Yahshua, Jews and Gentiles. This new man in Yahshua that will be the man that will be raptured before the coming great tribulation 3.5 years on earth.
All the prophecies in the old testament are pointing toward that one day Israel will be restored, she will be the Bride of Yahshua. All the Gentiles be mixed in the citizenship of Israel as they become the Bride of Yahsua.
In every feast of Israel, we always read where is the blessing. Did God differentiate Israelis and Gentiles? No, of course, but whoever among Israelis at that time does whatever YHWH had commanded to him or her, he or she would partook the inheritance of Israel. They would be counted as part of Israelis and thus had to obey whatever the law applied to Israelis at that time.
I believe in short, the Bride of Yahshua is one person consisting of Jews and Gentiles in Yahshua and we are all His. He will come again and we will be home soon either before 7 years or 3.5 years plan but it must include the Jews and Gentiles in general and not only the Gentiles.
May Yahshua takes us all home only by His grace and mercy to be forever with Him at the appointed time.

Re: Dear Gimel, may I know the Torah verse for 1 Thessalonians 5:3 for Safety?

Yes Gimel, agree with you that Gentiles are branches with Israel being the tree, trunk and Jesus as the Root.

Regarding your question for Planet Christ on whether we can see...

The Gloominess Clouds shows the location of the Star Wormwood's +ve charge and so we could not see as these gloomy clouds blocked the views.

Joel:2:2: "A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

Zephaniah:1:15: "That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,"

Wonder why the days sometimes are so hot, yet sometimes there is thunderstorm within the same day/night?

Right now the earth is in between Sun and Star's influences and the Sun is also being affected by the Star's Electro-Magnetic-Gravitational forces.
When earth which is rotating towards the east looks at the sun there is more and more heat from the sun even in the morning. and if you look at the clouds near the sun...you could see dark clouds covering at the south(west?).

I have noticed that rain or dark clouds approaching from west to east because right now in this season near summer, the star may be coming behind at the west.

There is this strange prophecy by Jesus that Lightning comes from East to West.
But I am seeing Lightning from West to East...
I believe it will only happen when earth is few degrees in between sun/star and who knows if the star is coming at the same orbit?

Thats why I say we can believe God's Word and see by faith...hope...love...

John:20:29: "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

Hebrews:11:7: "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

Romans:8:24: "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

1Peter:1:8: "Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:"