For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2011/jim524-1.htm


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Jim Bramlett (24 May 2011)
"Reflections on Failed Doomsday Prophecy"


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Reflections on Failed Doomsday Prophecy

By Jim Bramlett



Dear friends:

Harold Camping predicted the world would end in September 1994. It didn’t happen.

The 89-year-old predicted it again for May 21, 2011. It didn’t happen.

Camping is the object of worldwide scorn and ridicule. But there is one group of people more pitiful than him. They are the mockers who have no clue how close Camping may have come in his prediction.

I am not a fan of Camping and do not even know him, or much about him. I read where he may have heretical beliefs. But I give the old boy credit for trying. Based on what many reputable scholars are saying, he may not have been far off.

Most of the mockers are non-believers who would not have been raptured even if it had occurred, but would have been left here to suffer the greatest period of Tribulation in the history of the world and probably would have died. They are like the people who laughed at Noah and who perished with the great flood. Their day may be coming soon. Then they will not laugh and mock.

But sadly, many are believers who simply do not know the Bible. This includes many pastors. They typically quote the mantra, “of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36 KJV). Those words have been so misinterpreted and misrepresented that millions of people have been misguided and discouraged from even watching for the signs as Jesus commanded us to do.

Scholars point out that Jesus' words here are in the present tense, addressed to His hearers at the time, and not to those alive 2,000 years later at the end of the age when Daniel's vision would be unsealed (Daniel 12:9). This would be similar to Matthew 16:20: "Then he warned His disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ." As evidence, many other Scriptures reveal to us that God will reveal at least the approximately time.

Even if the "day and hour" restriction is literally valid today, it is only a 24-hour period, and it may be because the earth is in 24 time zones and always in two different days.

Detractors act like Jesus said, “of that century and decade knoweth no man"

Jesus also said, “but my Father only” knows, which pins the statement to His hearers at the time, when Jesus was still on the earth, because surely there are now no secrets in the Trinity between the Father and the glorified Son, who are truly One.

Also Jesus said, “If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee” (Revelation 3:3). He is obviously saying that to the one who watches, He will not come as a thief and that person will know the hour! (Hour -- Greek hora -- Strong’s 5610; various meanings, including, “any definite time, point of time, moment.”

Major signs were was the miraculous rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948 and the capture of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount in the miracle Six-Day War in 1967.

Some claim we should focus only on the Great Commission and evangelism and not be concerned when the Lord will return. However, the Bible repeatedly tells us to “watch” for the signs, so not doing so would be disobedient. Also, those who are watching and expecting Jesus’ soon return are probably the most zealous group of witnesses for the gospel among all Christians.

Doubters may mention Paul's words that the day of the Lord will come like "a thief in the night" (1 Thessalonians 5:2). But many believers have so misunderstood these verses that they are oblivious to the times, and are often absorbed by the cares of this world and their own agendas.

It is clear that Jesus will not come as a "thief in the night" for watchful believers, because in the very same passage, verse 4, Paul tells us, "But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." If we are trusting in Christ and looking for His coming, Paul said that even the very day does not have to surprise us!

Also, Jesus exhorted, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief" (Revelation 3:3, KJV), obviously saying He will come as a thief only to those not watching! It is obvious that for those watching, He will NOT come as a thief.


The time will be revealed if we are watching


Jesus rebuked those who did not understand the signs of the times in His day: "O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky, but can ye not discern the signs of the times" (Matthew 16:3).

Of the end of the age, Jesus said, "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh"(Luke 21:28). He said we would know when it is near!

God said, "Surely the sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing it to His servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7, NIV). God said "nothing," and He did not exclude Christ's return. Take Him at His word.

God not only knows the end from the beginning, He tells us that He makes it known! "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come." (Isaiah 46:10). He has already made it known! I personally believe it has been hidden in His Word all along, to be unlocked in His timing. There is nothing wrong with seeking! No doubt, it pleases God.

God said, "I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee" (Isaiah 48:5, KJV).

Jesus said the Holy Spirit "will teach you all things" (John 14:26). He said "all things." Did Jesus make a mistake, forgetting to exclude when He will return?

Friends confide in one another. Abraham was called God’s “friend” (Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23). “And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do” (Genesis 18:17). Now, because of Jesus’ atonement, we are called friends of God: “I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends” (Jesus, John 15:15). The Bible also says that Jesus was crucified so that the blessing of Abraham, part of which was friendship with God, would come upon the Gentiles -- us (Galatians 3:14).

Ecclesiastes 1:9 says “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun” (NIV). Many Bible students believe that ancient events and dating in the Bible are shadows and clues that foretell the coming of the Lord, even the timing. An example is the six days of creation, seen as 6,000 years of man’s dominion over the earth, before the return of the Lord and the seventh, or Sabbath Millennium of peace, with Christ ruling in Jerusalem. According to scholars, we are now at the end of 6,000 years since Adam

There are other such passages. God clearly promised that we would know at least approximately when Christ will return, and even "the day" will not surprise those watching, as the Holy Spirit reveals to us through Paul!


Biblical precedents


In addition, there is ample precedent for God revealing specific times in advance.

He gave Noah advance notice of when the flood would be (Genesis 6,7).

He told Abraham how long the Israelites would be in Egypt (Genesis 15:13).

He revealed to many the very day of Elijah's rapture (2 Kings 2).

He told Jeremiah how long the Babylonian exile would be (Jeremiah 29:10).

He told Daniel exactly when Messiah would come the first time (Daniel 9:25-26).

Some, including the brilliant Sir Isaac Newton, believe this same passage holds the key to the timing of His return.

There is evidence that the Bible reveals the exact number of years of "the times of the Gentiles" and the exact span of time to Israel's rebirth in 1948 and the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967.

Obviously, leaving us clueless now would violate God's own established pattern as revealed in His Word!

Also obviously, we are not left clueless. There are many signs. Let us remain watchful and ready, and be found doing the Master’s work.

Harold Camping may have been wrong a second time, but someday somebody will get it right!


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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


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Disclaimer: Rapture Forum, does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

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Steven

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

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Ola Ilori (25 May 2011)
"RE: Harold Camping's Purpose"


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Hi Fay,

I couldn't agree with you more!

Harold Camping has done exactly what the Lord wanted him to do!

His job, and that of his followers, was to make the World aware that an event called "The Rapture" is imminent!

The Lord used Harold Camping to put the Rapture event right up close in their faces!

Everyone was forced to make a choice either to mock the Rapture event, or take time to find out more about it from the Word, and as a result reflect on their relationship with God.

The World chose to mock the Rapture event and blaspheme God!

Those in the Apostate Church, as to be expected, just didn't get it, as they joined the World in mocking Harold Camping.

Already with tornadoes causing massive destruction in the US and volcanoes going of in Iceland, Judgement has begun!

This means the rapture is sooooo close.

The Lord in His mercy has chosen to use a man, a flawed man, in many ways, to inform the World of what He's about to do.

The Lord used Harold Camping to put the rapture event on CNN, ABC, FOX News, SKY News, the BBC, on the Internet, on the Radio, in Newspapers and on Billboards all over US.

What was the Lord suppose to do?

He couldn't us End-time Ministries like the Hal Lindsey Reports and Jack Van Impe International, to get the Word out that Judgement was imminent!

Why?

Because they're too concerned about maintaining there credibility.

The Lord needed a radical!

Some one who was prepared to put everything on the line for what he believed.

Harold Camping has had more impact on getting the Word out about the rapture than all the End-time Ministries put together!

This isn't just another "88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988" situation.

For the World doesn't have another 23 Years to wait before the Rapture occurs!

I believe as at today, the 25th of May 2011, the World is just 10 Days away from the Rapture!

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2011/ola524.htm


The Lord wasn't using Harold Camping to prepare souls for the Rapture, for He's already sealed all those who are to be raptured!

The Lord used Harold Camping to inform the Christ-rejecting-World that they've corrupted themselves in and mind and body, and that He's about to execute Judgement on them!!!

Ola.

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Fay (24 May 2011)
"Harold Camping's Purpose"

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Hey John and Doves,

I am writing this on the evening of 23rd May 2011. I have just finished reading the letters on Doves. Thank you so much, John. Quite wonderful. I know that we are leaving very soon. I feel it in my spirit. The LORD has also given me many signs which I won't regale you with. Too many, and seemingly trivial to anyone else but me.

I just wanted to mention dear old Harold Camping. I have no idea what torment he is going through right now - he and all his followers. However, they were sent for a very real purpose. They should not be ashamed or lose hope in any way. Our LORD needed this to be done. It got the whole world talking. It got a good many mocking - just as the days of Noah. You see - I believe that these things had to come to pass in order to fit in with the ' as in the days of Noah' scripture. Harold Camping fulfilled prophecy for these end times. He showed great courage - knowing it could - realistically - subject him to mocking, ridicule and utter resentment. Think about it - it's a very brave thing to do. With every hour that passes, after the non event of 21st May 2011, the more I am aware that Harold Camping was a very necessary part of the coming Rapture. With our LORD - nothing is for nothing. Please lets all pray for Harold and his followers. Their heart break must be crippling.

I also want to mention Israel. Dark times are coming (as we all know) but I cannot begin to imagine what it must feel like to face the Holocaust - as the Jewish people did. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to live with the virulent hatred that anti semitism breeds. The fear and ever present danger, has followed the Jewish people throughout history. A truly remarkable race. Their sins are no greater than anyone of us who might have been put in the same position. To whom God has given much - much is expected. The Jewish race has my utmost respect and I YEARN for the day they recognize their beloved Messiah - our LORD Jesus Christ. May the LORD bring this about as soon as possible. When I think of the Rapture, I don't really focus on what's going to be there for us. It's too much for me. We WILL be safe, joyous beyond belief and HOME. I long for the Rapture because I want this evil brought to an end. The sooner the Church is taken out of the way, the sooner the final gasp can begin. To rid the LORD'S beautiful, exquisite creation of ALL the evil. What a glorious day that will be.

PLEASE, PLEASE LORD Jesus. Come soon. Please come soon.

May God Bless us All
In Jesus Beloved Name

Fay


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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Forum, does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2011/joec525.htm

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Joe Chappell (25 May 2011)
"Jim Bramlett re: reflections on failed Doomsday Prophecy"

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Dear Jim and Doves,

I just wanted to add one of my favorite proofs for our fore knowledge of His return.

From Hebrews 10: KJV
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see "THE DAY" approaching ( emphasis mine ).

If this scripture is for the "Last Days Saints ", then it is a given, that " THE DAY" is obvious , and we will see it coming !

blessings Doves, ....joechappell

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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Forum, does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2011/donb525.htm

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Don Best (25 May 2011)
"Re: Jim Bramlett's "Reflections on Failed Doomsday Prophecy""


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Camping may have gotten the date wrong but he did succeed in getting the whole world talking about the rapture...
The whole world had it planted in their minds that there is something called the rapture and it can happen. I had a pastor for 30 years
mention that he was "Pan trib".... "It will PAN OUT just as God wants it to pan out." All I tell people is "get your heart right with God
and be ready for whenever it happens, JUST BE READY AND KEEP LOOKING FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

He, Harold Camping, may have gotten the date wrong but he didn't get the event wrong ! !

Some people say "Well, he makes all the Christians look bad." Well, I'd better be caught looking than caught not looking or not expecting it
to happen.

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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Forum, does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven

For Fair Use Discussion and Educational Purposes

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2011/carolg526-2.htm

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Carol Garza (26 May 2011)
"Re: Reflections on Failed Doomsday Prophecy"

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Hi all,
Among the many reasons I appreciate and respect the Doves on this board is we are respectful of those who are diligently searching the scriptures for clues and insights to the Lord’s Return. We may not agree on every subject matter but try to be respectful to each other. On other rapture type boards, John Tng and most of us here, including me would have already been banned for ‘date setting’.

Elijah and the prophets knew the day he was to be ‘raptured’. Noah knew he and his family and God’s pets were going ‘UP’ the day God closed the door to the Ark.

And I believe the day we are called to meet the Lord in the Air with the dead in Christ, we will know in our spirits. We will just KNOW. We might not know the hour but we will know we are departing. I believe a humongous Anointing of Inner Peace will befall us. I don’t think we will be jumping up and down, screaming w/Joy “THIS IS IT!” I believe we will have a Reverential, Holy Calmness enveloping us. We may not have time to say anything or like Elijah, God will put us among people who will not go up but will know we are going up to meet the LORD in the Air.

When I first heard of Camping’s boldness to put billboards of May 21 being Judgment day, I hoped it would be that day or sooner. While I don’t embrace his preaching/teaching, I did not join the throng of people ridiculing and condemning him.

At the very least, he was bringing attention to the Return of Christ and possibly fullfilled 2 Peter 3:3-4

3 To begin with, you must know and understand this, that scoffers (mockers) will come in the last days with scoffing, [people who] walk after their own fleshly desires

4 And say, Where is the promise of His coming?

If ever we heard the multitudes of scoffers and mockers, these scriptures came to the forefront for sure !

He IS Coming and my heart tells me it is this year. In April, my heart told me it was in May, no specific day. Maybe it was wishful hoping and praying as Israel celebrated a Birthday...maybe the May 21 prediction/prophecy stuck in my head too. Then there was John and Bob’s incredible scriptures and links.

Well...May is not over yet. The LORD is still working in people’s hearts. This morning, I heard a teacher say “I feel in my spirit something BIG is going to happen in June. Don’t you feel it too? He asked the congregation? He did not allude to the Rapture. He was not even talking about it but I wondered if he sensed it and maybe did not know that was what he was sensing or did not want to say anything as he did not want to come across as a date setter.

In any case, Jesus, our Precious JESUS IS Coming soon !!! Come Quickly LORD JESUS !

Carol Garza


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Zechariah 12:3,9:
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Disclaimer: Rapture Forum, does not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the reply button.

If you are new to this site and would like to post articles, opinions, youtube videos that are appropriate for this site just e mail me at

stevensandiego@ymail.com

I will send you a PASSWORD

Ybic

Steven