My brothers,

Let me first one thing clear. I believe the Ethiopian student movement is the reason for all our ills. Its is an over-rated movement that produced more destruction than nay construction.

Having sad that, let make a simple observation. If we say Haile Selassie's Government is an Amhara Government, it can be argued successfully. Let us also assume that most of the University students were Amhara. This, too,can be established. It can be said that the major question of the student movement was land to the tiller. It can also be established the number one benefitiaries of the land to the tiller movement were the Oromo. Many Amhara students died fighting for this, notwithstanding the misguided nature of the movement. What is then this crap about the Amhara was this and Amhara was that stupidity. Can each one of you please stand up and be counted.

The Mamo Qilo

Dear Mamo,
You are keep running from one comment and creating another one when you could not answer and succeed in your mischeif to pit one person against the other one.
Last time, you were fomenting and fabricating conflict between lencho stance on national question and me.
However, I put you in a corner and left you that you are Amahra Ethiopian as I am Somali Ethiopian.
Now, you left deliberatly the question of nations and nationality and the right of self-dtermination up to secession in this posting. As the saying goes, you can run, but you can not hide.
The core of our argument is that EPRDF is better than CUD. Therefore, let us outline facts and evidences to back up our points and do not start another topic before we complete and debate one issues unless you are living in fantasie and thinking that you used to rule Ethiopia and have the right to come up with a new topic. No wonder you are good in misleading and mischief to divide and rule Ethiopian. I want to refesh your recollation that that time is over and new Ethiopia is created in 1991.

Email: shirdons@yahoo.com

City: Washington DC

Mamo and Ibrahim,
Mamo said that you believe the Ethiopian student movement is the reason for all our ills. My argument is that the emperor domestic rule was so archaic and oppressive it decayed and fall by itself. The student demonstration is just a nudge to that system. Allow me to remind you!
After the victory over the Italians Haile Selassie returned home to find local patriots who fought everywhere. He started a centralizing policy by eliminating, circumventing and working around traditional leaders (Yegobeze Aleka) or regional leaders like Belay Zeleke and others in the south while rewarding those who were deemed loyal, who worked with the Italians(Bandas) or who fled with him.
Mamo said “If Haile Selassie's Government is an Amhara Government….” It was.
When expanding the central authority the emperor set up a system that required a dependable tax base, and that in turn entrenched on the established previous system by those who had been granted large holdings in the south and of gult-holders of the Amhara-Tigray highlands.
The Habesha nobles refused to accept any limitation upon the prevailing land tenure system and successfully battled the government over the issue. The emperor retreated by excluding Habesha provinces from the tax. The peasant, as in centuries past, continued to carry the entire taxation burden. The taxation for the southern and northern Ethiopia was therefore unfair but different. Because church-state power base relationship; the church owned 1/3 of the arable land. The churh kept a lot of fertile land in the south where the indeginous people were not orthodox. This system was practiced till 1974.
Mengistu Neway, coup wanted to establish a government that would improve the economic, social, and political position of the general population, but upon its failure it succeeded in stripping the monarchy of its claim to be the appointee of God and descendant of the lion Judah.
The other most consistent problems for emperor were Eritrea and the Ogaden regions. Eritrea rejoined Ethiopia with Federation and the emperor restored an accesses to the red sea. The new arrangement also enabled the country to gain limited control of a territory. Almost from the start of federation, the emperor's representative undercut the territory's separate status under the federal system. He made Amharic the official language in place of Arabic and Tigrinya, proscribed all political parties, imposed censorship, gave the top administrative positions to Amharas, changed Eritrea's status to that of a province of Ethiopia. Ras Asrate Kasa as governor general, refeudalized the territory as well.
Haile Selassie started to witness growing opposition to his regime because there was no coherent pattern of economic and social development policies, the friction between the Habesha nobles led by Aserate Kassa and the literate elite. In 1960’s a plan emerged to confront the traditional forces through the implementation of a modern tax system, the aim was to destroy the power of the land owner nobility. But Habesha nobles vigorously resisted it. The Above listed problems coupled with the question of nationalities and nations and the treatment of oromos and southern people invigorated the issues against the emperor.
Mamo said “Let us also assume that most of the University students were Amhara..” They were not, but they took a stand based on the level of their consciousness. The student took the causes and started the demonstrations and focused on the need to implement land reform, to address corruption and while the highly progressive ones also promoted the idea of self determination. Faced with such a multiplicity of problems, the aging emperor increasingly left domestic issues in the care of the then prime minister. The system rotted by itself and collapsed.
Mamo said “It can also be established the number one benefitiaries of the land to the tiller movement were the Oromo”. Land to the tiller is Amhara inclusive question. The question of nationalities and the treatment people of non Habeshas by successive Habesha administration is still to be addressed. Mamo said “ What is then this crap about the Amhara was this and Amhara was that stupidity. Can each one of you please stand up and be counted. “
Mr Mamo denial in one form or another is not helpful to Amharas or Tigrians. Let us admit and address this issue before it obliterate the whole nation. When you ask the people to forget with out any remedy that could be an insult to their scar. Land to the tiller was dominant issue because the land owner and peasants were both Habeshas in the north while in the south the campaign was good but it failed short of incorporating other prominent issues. I have heard this argument before and It does not go anywhere.

Ibrahim,

Let us agree that EPRDF is better than CUD. How about this: Is EPRDF better than UEDF. Answer this with all honesty?

The Mamo Qilo aka etc

VJ,

Thanks as usual for your excellent analysis. I really have grown to respect you. I agree with most of what you said.

One question stands to be addressed and this really was what I wanted to highlight. I may have not articulated it right.

I agree that land to the tiller is Amhara inclusive question. But can t be dinied that this was primarily a question for the Oromo? Given this and also the fact the Number of Amhara students who gave their lives for this and also for the nationality question, the point I am trying to make is to lower down the volume of Amhara this and Amhara that rehtoric. Do you see my point.

Mamo Qilo
Mamo said “It can also be established the number one benefitiaries of the land to the tiller movement were the Oromo”. Land to the tiller is Amhara inclusive question.

mamo,
Why are you making sarcastic diss that EPDRF is better than CUD and UEDF? What happened to your argument about nationalities and the old student movement.

People like me are asking very little of the Amharas
a) the Amhara ruing system indeed oppressed the Oromos and other Southern people,
b) the system was wrong and therefore it should be replaced by a new system which would guarantee equality among all ethnic groups; and,
c) that system of equality, harmony among the different ethnic groups of Ethiopia should be built only through mutual agreement between the citizens of that country and on equal terms without any coercion.
d)The Oromo and southern Ethiopian history
should be respected by the like of Andargachew and
Getachew Haile.
Show us more gesture better than political correctness and politeness and people like me will stand with the amharas and even defend them.

Vj,

I agree with the nationality questions and support all reasonable efforts to address longstanding issues, with the eye to better shape the future. I am critical f the student movement not for the nationality and land for the tiller issues it has raside but for its general legacy.

Imagine the oldest student leader at the time probably was not older than 30. Most of the univeristy students were in mid 20. Do you trust that age group to house seat your apartment when you go on vacation, leave alone to lead a country.

I was not being sarcastic when I askd Ibrahim. let us assume EPRDF is better than CUD, but can he say the same comparing EPRDF and UEDF. If you have read Ibrahim, whenever he talks about the opposition he refers to CUD. All his views coinside with UEDF. He is aligned with EPRDF at rhetorical level only. SO I was asking him to stand up like a man and alighn himself on substantive matters.

One last question to you: What does it take to close the old chapter of Amahara did this and Amhara did that and move forward, levaing the past to historians. The Amhara government has been dethroned 30 some odd years ago, including the land tenure system. The federalist system is based on tribal homelands. So why are the likes of Ibrahim still crying foul. I can understand if gebremenamen uses it for political reason.

The Mamo Qilo

One more thing, there was a less popular movement called "land to indigenous!"

VJ you posed your second message after I responded to you.

You wrote:

"People like me are asking very little of the Amharas
a) the Amhara ruing system indeed oppressed the Oromos and other Southern people,
b) the system was wrong and therefore it should be replaced by a new system which would guarantee equality among all ethnic groups "

I say: You are not serious here. It has been replaced 30 years ago. Or may be I do not understand what you mean by it should be replaced.

You wrote: c) that system of equality, harmony among the different ethnic groups of Ethiopia should be built only through mutual agreement between the citizens of that country and on equal terms without any coercion.

I say: You can get this only through a democratic system. It is for such a system that the likes of you and I are fighting against the likes of geberemenamen and Ibrahim, who try to tell us (a) dictator Meles is a democrat and (b) the looting TPLF establishment is a democratic entity.

You were being funny when you wrote:

"(d)The Oromo and southern Ethiopian history
should be respected by the like of Andargachew and
Getachew Haile." What is they refuse. IS Ethiopia going to be taken a hostage if a group of individuals keep their view of history.

You wrote: "Show us more gesture better than political correctness and politeness and people like me will stand with the amharas and even defend them." You have been defending them regardless. You are bigger than you seem to suggest. And besides you do not need justure from any body. You need a system that guarantees it. Let us move forward.

The Mamo QIlo

We can find closure in respect that will do it. The way blacks here mean "respect".

a) is recognition of the past so sensitivity and admitting will do it.
b) and c) will be done through a democratic system.
but d)the respect of history is the most important because a hate based historical and imperial sabotage by Getachew Haile that plans to give claims to Amharas on the tradition land of Oromos and Southern people is not a joke. The Likes of Andargachew tasting the water to see if they can deny us the right to self administration in the future is not funny. History when it starts to be documented by irresponsible historians like the Fetawrari Source of Getachew haile it can be disastrous. You can not write wild stories about people. The Greeks went bezerk when Alexander was portrayed as Bi on the movie. You are not even entitled to write your opinion as the history with out proper research and supporting archeological and historical references that coincide with some other known facts. That is why someone with objective analysis should document southern history.

Mamo and VJ

Keep talking; it is refreshingly educational.

Merci!

VJ,

When I was growing up in Addis at Beyene Merid school, evey one in the calss used to claim that we are all from Addis Abeba. This was to avoid redicule. My mother was from Mecha in Ambo, She is an Oromo by blood, bones and flesh, 100%, which ever way you measure her and in what ever fashion you slice and dice her. My Father is an Asli Amhara from Menze, pure Amhara, like absolute Vodka no mix. I have half brothers who are Asli Amhara in flesh, blood and bones, from Menze.

I used to claim that my parents are from Addis.
To admit my father was from Menze was bound to attract the same level of teasing and redicule as admiting my mother was Oromo or Gala from Ambo. Yes, peole from the south were subjected to more suppression and subjucation, both economically, socailly and politically during the feudal era. Denying that is pure stupid.

My question to you, my brother and mentor VJ is: who should appologize for the past misdeeds? how often? Whouls it be enough if Hailu Shawuel for example comes out in public and appologize? Would it do if The Mamo Qilo writes a formal appology? Meles has done so on a daily basis. So where is the end? This line of discussion is a never ending process. The best thing is to move forward and chnge the system, not peoples attitude.

So recognition of the past is not only so sensitivity, but it is also difficult to measure and monitor. Admiting can be done by a government official and also historians and scholars. But admiting cannot change attitudes. But changing the system can take us a long way.

VJ, you wrote: "The respect of history is the most important because a hate based historical and imperial sabotage by Getachew Haile that plans to give claims to Amharas on the tradition land of Oromos and Southern people is not a joke."

I say unto ye, brothet VJ: In a society as diverse as Ethiopia, people harbor different interpretation of history. Professor Getachew is entitled to his version of history, just like you are. History like the bible and the Quran is open to interpretation. And most of our history either from Professor Haile or from You tend be selective (tarik bemaTeleya). Nothing wrong with that.

You wrote: "The Likes of Andargachew tasting the water to see if they can deny us the right to self administration in the future is not funny." I understand any misinformation unless checked can become history. In that sense I appreciate your tendency to take such matters seriously. We need to respond with our version of history. But that should be left to historians and scholars. You cannot stop Professor Haile from developing his thesis. Your responsibility is to develop yours. In todays Ethiopia Haile's thesis does not enjoy government subsidy. You are at equal footing. What is important is not to derail all the effort to building the future. This does not need condemenation of Professor Hailu's attempt to develop his thesis and interpretation of history.

So why not spend our time on constructing the furture than squabling about the past to figure out who did what to whom when and why. We have enough tools to build the future with, without bending back to salvage the past. The past is water under hte bridge. We need to remember there is no nation on earth that was built without one group supressing the language, and heritage of other groups. Let us not judget the 19th century by the standard of the 21 century. Let us build the future, leaving the past to historians.

The Mamo Qilo aka
Ankasa Doro aka
Yejib Tila

Alright, I agree with most of your argument and you won. I am an amateur history student and my profession is in applied science so I cannot stop the revered Professor Haile from developing his thesis. Here are some my points at last:

1.You said ”Imagine the oldest student leader at the time probably was not older than 30. Most of the university students were in mid 20. Do you trust that age group to house seat your apartment when you go on vacation, leave alone to lead a country.”
Those students included two of my uncles and I know that we will never see in our entire life bright, smart and vibrant generation as theirs. I know their friends and their enthusiasm for knowledge, development, sacrifice, and enlightenment what kept us going is whatever left of them. I am disappointed that Meles is part of that generation.

2.But I call on Professional historians and Gobez OROMO and southern students to refute the book called “Ye Oromo ametat ena mesfafat” by some fetawrari or Kegn Azmach and Getachew haile article in ethiopian register in the mid 90's that bases the argument on that book to suggest that oromos migrated from somalia and initially from india.

As you said it is important not to derail the effort to building the future so lets work together and support the CUD and UEDF.

appreciate your views.

Dear VJ,

I have told you in the past and I shall tell you again. I have grown to admire you and have learned a lot from you. I truly thank Ibrahim for introducing you as the person to read and learn from.

I ma one of those who is a born again conservative. My daughter once told me: “Dad, you know that you are the only Black Conservative Pro Republican that I know who is not a millionaire. She was only 11 when she said that. She is 15 now. She is sharp like a razor blade. If intelligence is hereditary I could say I inherited mine from my daughter.

My view of the student movement may be colored (you may say shadowed) by my conservative orientation. In any case, I am prepared to meet you half way. If you agree that your impression of your uncles was made when you were much younger than they were and you were naturally owed by their knowledge. Growing up, I thought my father was the strongest person on earth. I have even doubted if Abebe Bikila can beat my father.

In any case, I think some of what you said about “what is keeping us moving is what is left of their movement” is partly true. The major problem with the student movement was that it was led by a group that had no stake in the system. The best revolution in the world was led by American nobilities. I said the best based on the results. Some 200 years later, the American revolution is kicking and humming. The Russian, the Chinese and the Ethiopian revolutions have bit the dust. The Cuban revolution s left to stand as a comical caricature of radical revolution. Some of their cars are so old that they need their owners to push them 80% of the time. God knows who is transporting whom. The car its owner. Or the owner pushing his car from place to place. In any case, as you know the American revolution was led by property owners. I guess I am digressing. Thanks for educational discussion. I do not think I won the argument. You simply brought the discussion to a higher level. I agree building the future is our collective challenge. History will remember us for our contribution to this effort. I hope enlightened members of this forum will join us to keep this discussion to the level you have taken it. I also hope Ibrahim will jump in. I keep on coming to Ibrahim because I truly think I can work with him, leaving our side interactions aside.

Ankasa Doro aka
Ejib Tila aka
Mamo Qilo

Maammo Qilo,

Utuu qoostu, baaccuu, qilee of buufte. Ha ha ha!

City: Atlantis

Qilo,

This is rubbish.

Email: rez@ethionet.et

What is "rubbish?" about Qiiloo? Details really needed. Otherwise, keep quiet.

Email: jirruu@yahoo.com

Birmadummaa Jirruu,

Thanks for coming to my defense. If we work together like this, before you know it I would be writing my name in this Qubbe thing.

Maammoo Qqiiloo