I went through the interview Ato Hailu and Comrade Meles gave. Here is what I read:

1. The interviewer fair to both.

Meles:

1. Meles started with a lie (correction a bold lie, a lie that only the likes of Gebreselassie would do under the cover of a screen name).

2. The interviewer cut him short saying "no, I am sorry but that is not true".

3. Meles tried to bounce back with yet a bit of a lie and a bit of fiction and the interviewer shot him back again.

4. Meles retreated into a defensive posture.

5. Throughout the interview Meles looked like a difiant thief who was caught with his hand in a candy jar and seemed he was looking around for Gebreselassie Zemariam for advice. It looked really bad for him

Hailu:

1. Hailu looked almost presidential at the begining.

2. He was fine to respond to the main issues and looked confident.

3. He missed so many opportunities to turn the table to his advantage. He did not rise up to the challenge.

4. Hailu Desperately needs a PR officer and he needs to come prepared and be able to change every question to his advantage.

5. This was his first big league interview. Many more are likely to come his way. He needs PR person. He needs to control his hand movements and he needs to come with punch lines and use them regardless of the question.

6. Overall Hailu won the contest, but failed to capitalize on the monent. May be next time.

Mamo Qilo

Mamo,

Could you post the text of the interview with Ato Hailu. I couldn't access the audio. Please.

Email: belayt01@yahoo.com

City: Addis Ababa

Ato Mamo Qilo,



Finally I'm delighted to see you're finally beginning to see the light. However, you still have some ways to go in redeeming yourself from your reluctant and unconscious nostalgia with EPRDF/Wayane. If you keep up at this rate you might even emancipate yourself (self exorcise) the demean within you.

Now going back to your comparative bullets between Hailu Vs. Meles, let me expound the following:

Hailu

BBC questions to Hailu was more of an interview
The interviewer question to Hailu were jerky and choppy
The interviewer is unfamiliar with Ethiopians style of interview and discourse
The interviewer seemed interested only in getting sound bits responses instead of full responses to the questions
Hailu had more to say with substance in spite the time constrained of the interviewer
Hailu obviously has not engaged abundantly in interviewing with foreign press, on the other hand Meles's skill in responding to the foreign press developed over the last 14 years in perfecting his patented lies and responses time and time again.
Hailu on the other hand is known to have demonstrated his impeccable articulation in his native language (which is the official language of Ethiopia)
Hailu projected a credible demeanor and sincerity.


Meles
Meles's meeting with the BBC reporter was more of an interrogation and a cross examination in which Meles perjured himself on every question.
Meles appeared as usual arrogant, defiant and condescending
Meles lied, fabricated and prevaricated


Towards the end Meles seemed desperate to relieve himself......

Ato Hailu is an honest serious person. Meles is an arogant layer and a killer. He is a pessimist. Hailu Shawel is an optimist. He brings luck. The future with him is beutiful.

Email: debalque@yahoo.de

City: Hannover

Selamawi,

I love you too. Let us declare peace and drink Pepsi. It tests better than Coke. I know I am being silly. More to the point did you hear what happened to Gebreselassie. He was taken off of the street of Balltiore while walking nacked. He is the second to be picked for walking nacked. Arat Kilo was the first.

Mamo Qilo

I found Mr. Hailu’s performance in the interview to be less than good. I agree with Mamo that Mr. Hailu did not use the opportunity to outline and expose EPRDF’s track record. I was particularly unimpressed when he explained why Mr. Meles lied by saying “Ethiopians may react differently to different circumstances”. This undermines his own claim for speaking the truth as he is putting the trustworthiness of all Ethiopians, including himself, in danger.

The most important observation, however, is that Mr. Hailu lacks communication skills. He may be honest and passionate, but not a good politician yet. Communication skill is a politician’s biggest asset. He was at times too slow in his responses and didn’t articulate his points clearly. It is disappointing to see a no-so-great performance by the leader of the opposition party that has everything going for it at this time. We know for a fact that Mr. Meles’ ability to convincingly lie to foreigners is what made him look like a democrat to his foreign audience. There were opportunities in the interview for Mr. Hailu to expose Mr. Meles on this very important issue.

When Mr. Meles was challenged by the interviewer for his assertions that even the observers said that the elections were “fair and free”, he was quick to try to dig himself out of the hole by saying “the overall impression of the observers was that the elections were fair and free”.

Mr. Hailu, on the other hand, completely denied that his party would resort to non-violent but peaceful and legal strikes and work stoppages. Instead of challenging the source to which the interviewer used, Mr. Hailu should have made his party’s position clear in the absence of a transparent and impartial investigation of the vote riggings. We have heard time and again that the opposition will fight using peaceful means such as staying at home, work stoppage, etc. These are legal avanues that he should have defended. I thought that was a poor response given by him.

In my opinion, Mr. Meles was the better performer in terms of putting the maximum spin on the questions asked and making the best out of a bad situation. While he was grilled hard and failed to justify the killings of innocent citizens, failed to justify why he should be in power after 14 years of starvation and instability, failed to justify why basic constitutional rights such as the right to protest should be taken away from citizens, etc., Mr. Meles communicated very well even if it was to no avail.

Mr. Hailu, however, didn’t put the important points forward. However, in terms of optics, Mr. Hailu is clearly the winner. He was calm and had the appearance of a statesman.

In conclusion, CUD’s leadership has to do much better in terms of communication and PR.

Email: samuel_van@hotmail.com

City: Vancouver, canada

The camera man did a favour to Meles. He didnt expose him to the world with his face sweeting and eyes telling the lies by focusing close-up. Ato Hailu did fairly well given he is a new comer to the world of BBC and telling lies.Graceful fellow indeed.

Hi all

Thanks to hardtalk!!

It was brilliant interviews that brought out into daylight what our government and the opposition parties want for ethiopia.

Meles dreams of coming out of the woods to make ruwandan type of war!
Opposition dreams of beautiful ethiopia!

Very true!!

Email: MarmaladeXX1@aol.com

City: New York

Mamo Quilo,

That is true. When he meets such a tough journalist like Stephen, I think he needs translator so he can get his message across in clear language that way he can do less thinking how to put it in English and answer the question efficiently . We understood, I hope other foreigners who are familiar with our politics understood it too, but he should be able to reach all his audiences with clear tone. I don't think he has to speak in English if he is not comfortable with it.we kind of missed one good opportunity. Like you said may be next time.

4. Hailu Desperately needs a PR officer and he needs to come prepared and be able to change every question to his advantage.

Look here, Meles has to defend his dire and miserable policies for the last 14 years. he was uncomfortable and unpresidental, He was caught with his hands in cookie jar! He lost control and he was an unimpressive.

Let us be honest, despite the favorable condition for Eng. Shawiule. He looked unimegenative and paethetic. Mamo Kilo, would have done a better job.

Foregt it, we are dommed for a protratcted failures. Like the era of Zemene Mesfenette. Pack-up and save yourself and move your family from dismal Ethiopia and Eth leaders.Our country is dommed to Dante Inferno!

Ethiopia is an other somila and Liberia in the making!

We produce stupids leaders!

Moderator! I know you will delete it.

Remeber it is the truth!

City: Cambridge, MA

Terbu, I did not quite get your message. What makes you so desperate? It is not that the oppositions are making irreversable mistakes, at least not yet. What's this the end of the world thing of yours..? I think We still should give them the benefit of a doubt, bro.

Dear Ethiopian,
The honorable Prime Minister of Ethiopia, Meles Zenawi has done an excellent job and Haile did not know what he is talking about since he does not have any truth to convey to the rest of the world.
As I said before, I will say again and again keep dreaming, but Ethiopian is gone in the right direction and you must catch the next bus which is passing only in the street of Western capital and make you beggars to the certain people as Ethiopian who graduated from school of animals and do not care about human being.
Meles did not budge an inch from his principle which is based upon the liberation of poor and innocent Ethiopian that your forefathers made beggars.

Email: shirdons@yahoo.com

City: Washington DC

Ibrahim, you wrote "...Meles did not budge an inch from his principle which is based upon the liberation of poor and innocent ..." In what parallel universe do people equate government-sponsored murder and torture, disease, famine, etc. with "liberation?"

How can you be so obtuse?

Ibrahim-

You use the following words in your statement that you and your buddy Meles know nothing about:

Honorable
Excellent
Truth
Right direction
Liberation
Innocent

Come on Ibrahim, who are you trying to fool?

Dear readers:

I am not a person who is prepared to dismiss everything so quick. I
always try to give a benefit of doubt to events and personalities by the
principle “Even the dull and ignorant they too have their stories”. But
believe me after I listened to the interview of the leader of the
so-called CUD by the BBC reporter, I was speechless and mute. The only
sentence it came out of my mouth was “God Save Ethiopia” repeatedly again
and again. I say no further because is does not deserve my time.
I urge all Ethiopian and friends of Ethiopia to stay vigilant. A war is
waged over Ethiopia by some remnants of the Dergue to bleed Ethiopia
twice around. In character it is not short of terrorist movement funded
by the some group (who fled the country with their criminal past).
Democracy shall prevail in Ethiopia. The dream and aspiration of peace
loving people of Ethiopia will come true.

God Bless Ethiopia!
Eliza

Paulos Yrgaw(07/06/05)

I am astounded. In fact, I am flabbergasted. I could add more, if I was able to express my otherwise wretched emotions. In Western philosophical niche, they call it, "Cretan Paradox". If a Cretan says, "all Cretans are liars", the Cretan is a liar as well, and by the same token, it implies that, all Cretans do not lie. Hence, it is a paradox. Shawl is paradoxical or he is in a paradox. Either way you vantage it, he is contradicting himself. The sad thing is, he doesn’t know it. The whole thing started when the astonished Sacker (a host of HardTalk) asked the nervous and fast-blinking Shawl, if it is alright for the donor nations to help Ethiopia with aid money. Shawl responded by saying that, the aid should be channeled to a specific project. Fair enough. Shawl went on to say that, the donor countries shouldn’t give the money to Meles and his government for they can not be trusted. And Sacker with a more astounded look, asked Shawl if Meles has been duping the Western leaders, a man who has been hailed and praised by them invariably as a man who is doing a modest job for his country. Here is where the bomb went off. Shawl told Sacker that, the Western leaders are not cognizant of our culture (read deceptive culture, according to Shawl that is), if they had known, they wouldn’t have given money to Meles which is meant to be for the betterment of the poor people. Here, there are two important noteworthy points. First, Shawil, the man who is not endowed with Weberian charisma, is insulting the intelligence of Western leaders. Maybe, the Western leaders were born at mid-night but surely, it was not last night. Second, the feeble minded Shawl is telling the Western leaders that, if I ever become Prime Minster (God forbid), and if I ever stand at your door steps asking for money, please do not trust me for I am the product of my deceiving culture.

I should say that, my nightmare has come to reality. Finally, I have heard it from the horse’s mouth. As the fading eyes are looking for justice through the caskets, the executioner in a guise of democracy is again in a full swing to slide Ethiopia back into the banality of evil, if I can use Hannah Arendt’s notable _expression. What is more worse is, the roar and commotion of the followers. The short memory span of the followers reflects the betrayal of the fallen heroes whose blood is still echoing through out the land when the executioner with an utter audacity is telling us that, it is fine to be implicated in the infamous Red Terror and sleep on power of a green pasture. Admittedly, Shawl worked for the Red Terror regime for two full years. In an attempt to cover his behind, he also said that, he had to keep his tail between his legs in order to raise his children. Let us roll the clock backward into the 1970s. As the Red Terror bullets penetrated the hearts of fathers, brothers, sisters, blue-collars, white collars, the whole spectrum, the fathers could have dodged the bullets in different ways. They could have fled the country; they could have joined the colonel; they could have made a permanent residence in the mountains. But they didn’t. Simply because, they had integrity, passion, principle and most of all love of the Patria. The coward shawl does not have any of these. What he has is a weak heart, a feeble mind and un-Ethiopian spirit, hence he belongs to the dungeons of justice. Doing otherwise is a travesty and a disservice to our heroes whose sacrifice gave the riff-raffs of history the likes of Shawl and his replicas a scent of democracy who are now determined to turn it into a foul scenery.

Paulos Yrgaw

Ottawa, Canada.

Dear Shiro and Lemelem:
Let me ask a simple question. Do you support CUD because of principle and programme they stand to achieve or by ethnic affiliation?
Just answer that question and justify your anser with facts.Please do not jump to the gun and personalize the issue and be caught with the hidden agenda of Getachew Haile, Negede Gobeze and the likes.

Email: shirdons@yahoo.com

City: Washington DC

Ibrahim, you are the one obsessed with ethnic politics and decades-old misdeeds.

Why aren't you answering the question I posed? In what universe is government-sponsored murder and torture acceptable and laudable? Let's put rationality aside for a moment, how could a spiritual person, as you claim to be, support a government that has demonstrated a complete lack of humanity?

Dr. Professor Ibrahim,

Let us assume Hailu is all what you say he is. What are you going to do if the people voted for him. In Addis all the people watched the debate between EPRDF and CUD, and gave CUD a clean sweep. Professor Moron, what are you going to do? Do you know what democracy means?

Do you know why Gebreselassie posted the minutes of a meeting between Meles and Bush that was humilaiating to Meles? Dear Dr. Ibrahim. I have the greatest respct to you, for reasons I am yet to figure out. This is despite the fact that you are a fool.

Mamo Qilo

My dear brother/sister shiro,

You cannot expect sensible answer from Ibrahim.
Murderers fascinate Ibrahim.

May the good Lord put some sense in his head.

Please leave Ibrahim alone. He was caught with his hands in a cany jar when he lied he is making 6 figures figure. What he did not tell us was his six figure is paid in Birr. This is not much. It is actually below a burger flippers like myself.

Mamo Qilo

Dear Yohannes,

The reason Ato Shawel failed His Exam badly with the " Hard Talk" host was, because He was used to "The Alebabsew Biyarsu" type exams In the past. I'm not surprised at all with the out-come.

Mamo Quilo,

You can call Meles Shrewd, liar and so on. The way I saw it, However, I give him A+. Hailu had the truth but Meles didn't. It was like Hailu went to the ring with a glove but Meles without. None the less, Meles came out a winner. Tell Ato hailu the truth so that He'll be well prepared for the next fight. He lost a golden opportunity already. If you told him that he had won this fight, he'll lose the next fight by a knock-out not by point. Let's be honest for the good of the people.

Ladies and Gentelemen,this so called Ibrahim/Geremelesse could be the same person playing with his key boards in 4killo(Presidential palace in Addis) since acces to ER on world web page and we all know mr.deciver Melese zenawi comes in the name of Abebe i'm not suprized this two stooges(Ibrahim/Geremelese)same luntic leader.

Email: DillingerJ1@aol.com

City: DC

Ewenetu Bezabeh,

I am sorry, but it was BBC that caught Meles engaed in blatant lie. I only reported what I heard. By the way, do you understand why Gebreselassie posted the minutes of the meeting between Meles and Bush? It was a very humiliating Minute.

Your master looked like "Ewere yebuwaTeTew Genfo" Looked really bad.

Mamo Qilo

Mamo,forgive me but,Melese looked like a man carrying donkey.

Email: DillingerJ1@aol.com

City: DC

DillingerJ1
while you are very busy on the question of personality and deconstructing it, you are lost to follow the facts that are unfolding in front of your eyes. Look at what the OLF leader wrote and posted in the Ethiomedia web site which is campaining to bring the hegemony of your tribe that you are denying.
This is the key of our contentious issue and unless you solve this point and come to the middle ground and work out consensus, you will be wandering like wild cat in the capital of the Western World and aim at disturping the peace of Ethiopian people.
The CUD objectively takes the position that Ethiopia was never an empire and thus denounces those who continue ascribing this status to the country of harbouring the sinister motive of fragmenting it. As its title, the Coalition for Unity and Democracy, illustrates the CUD believes the unity of Ethiopians is an accomplished fact; only democracy thus remains outstanding.
In the views of the TPLF/EPRDF, however, Ethiopia was an empire dominated by Amharic speakers until it came to power and reconfigured the state along federal lines thus supposedly settling the quest for self-determination by the nations incorporated into the country through a process of conquest.

Email: shirdons@yahoo.com

City: Washington DC

Dear, Mamo Quilo,

One thing I observed here is, any negative remark against the opposition makes some one an out-cast automatically. If the opposition can be represented by most of the people in this forum, I fear for the country and its people. Mamo, you wrote what you've observed and I did the same in return. I didn't call you names because you said Ato Hailu did perform well. We had different perception and that's all. FYI, I've no Masters to please. I'm born free and say whatever my instinct tells me. You're a slave. Every one is born free but you chose to be a slave. Neither a murderer thug like Meles nor an opportunist chauvinist with a 19th century mentallity like Hailu Shawel can be my master. However, as a loyal slave, No matter what they do, you're ready to defend your masters at any cost. This reminds me of the Derg's era where all members had the "yes Sir! and Whatever you say Sir approch". Remeber the joke " When mengistu misses the ball while playing ground tennis??? The memebers were quick to blame the fault on the ball as a work of the Imperialists but not on his skills ( By the way, the ball was made in China)" You're doing the same thing. Whatever the opposition does, you support them blindly. Actually, detecting the wrong doings and having'em corrected on time helps the party and the people. Ato Hailu needs a PR big time. I see neither skill nor quality on him regarding leadership. He has a lot to improve. However, you and the likes of you are trying to portray him as a great Orator may be better than Malcolm-X but he ain't. You better tell him the truth as more exams are to come.

Ibrahim and your friends.

Why don't you concentrate on the content of the interview. Ato Hailu did great job. Are you expecting him to speak like Bush or Blair. If you put Putin, Chirac, Sharon and other prominent leaders, you would find them far below Hailu. Any way, they are proud of their own language and rarely use English.

Hailu did great job. I cannot compare him with Meles who is a lier all the time. Don't compare a lier with a genuine one.

Ewenetu Bezabeh,

My brother, if you have read my postings you would know I am as critical as any rational can get on the opposition. Yes, I would not have voted for hailu. I would have gone with Beyene Petros. My second choice would have been Professor Yacob.

I too said Hailu needs PR and alos needs to have clear strategy. I personally thought his answer on land tenure was kind of dumb. Next time he should be prepared and he should have clear policy and implementation plan.

But my observation is that he did better than Meles. Meles was thrown out of balance after he was caught lying when he answered the very first question. Then he really looked a difiant thug who was caught burglering a policy man's residence.

Ewenetu Bezabeh, do you have any ida why Gebreselassie posted the minute of the meeting between Meles and Bush? It was the most embarassing moment for Meles.

Mamo Qilo

Mamo,

Don't bark on the wrong tree. Ask that question to Gebreselase or whatever his name is.

Mamo,

Why don't you ask Arat kilo that question. Al-Amoudi's name has disappered with Arat-Kilo. Now we've time to concentrate on more important issues. Don't you think so?

Qilo:
Pepsi is forgotten after your master's betrayal. What an extraordinary memory you got to remember a trash thing forgotten for good

Email: hrobert@hotmail.com

City: London

Getahun,

I like your calm, constructive and informed comment on the performance of our leaders; the mark of a mature public behavior. But, you need to write that kind of stuff where we can read it, say Ethiomedia. Thanks.

BBC meets CUD’s President Hailu Shawel


(Full text transcribed by Walta Information Center)

Introduction by BBC’s Stephen Sacker

“Ethiopia’s Parliamentary elections were held in May, but we still don’t know who won! The opposition here (in Ethiopia) says that the government is to rob them of their stunning victory. There has been street clashes and serious bloodshed. But what would be the opposition’s next move?

“Well, my guest here is the leader of Ethiopia’s biggest opposition group, Hailu Shawel. Welcome to “Hard Talk”!

“Would you accept that the Ethiopian election on May 15th was the freest and fairest in Ethiopian history?”

Hailu:- “Until the day of the election?”

“Yes.”

Hailu:- “Yes!”

“Because you had access to the media, you had the opportunity to debate with the ruling party. It was remarkable, wasn’t it?”

Hailu:- “It was the first time in our history, we had access to our people. At least we could tell most of the people what we stand for and what we have a dream for Ethiopia.”

“Do you think that, in light of what happened since the election, you have lost sight of just any achievement that democratic process was?”

Hailu:- “It was not only us! The people came [out] in masses - in big numbers - believing that this is a chance to say what they want to say. They lined up all day and in to the night, without any complaint. They cast their vote, but then came the danger. I call it a disaster!”

“Well let’s talk about it in detail. When did you decide that the vote count was rigged?”

Hailu:- “We had certain ideas from the beginning that there will be something.

“They didn’t wake up very quickly - I guess - that the voters were massive (that) was opposing them. But then…”

“Mr. Hailu, why did you complain that the vote was rigged in Addis Ababa - at the root - in the capital city?”

Hailu:- “It was! As I told you just now, people were coming two times and the organizers were trying to, to tell the people what to do, where to put their marks and so on. But the people were refusing!”

“But this is puzzling! You are saying the vote was rigged in Addis Ababa.”

Hailu:- “No, they were trying to rig it! Finally…

“But you were actually complaining that it has been rigged! As soon as the election ended you complained “this vote in the capital city has been fraudulent.”

Hailu:- “It was fraudulent!....

“Well how was that? What was the result in Addis Ababa?”

Hailu:- “It is a clean sweep of course for the C.U.D. There is no question about that. But ...

“It was a clean sweep for the opposition. What kind of a fraud is that?”

Hailu:- “The fraud was there, but the people overcame the fraud.

You should see what kind of calls we get the whole night. Who did what and there are marked ballots coming out. If you look at the wasted ballots, you will be surprised. And one of the observers from abroad asked me “why all these?” - you know - “wasted ballots? “There were pre–marked ballots.”

“I think a lot of people, who watch this, will find it hard to take your claim that the entire vote was rigged, seriously. When in Addis Ababa - the capital - where one would think the government [as well as] the ruling party has most control of the situation the fact is the opposition swept the board. Every single one of the 23 constituencies was given to you?”

Hailu:- “You know why? There were observers in almost every location! They can’t do very much about it. In the cities and towns, where there were observers present, we swept it all! But where there were no observers, where there were peoples with guns, then the issue changed.”

“Well, let’s talk about the observers. Because the E.U. was here. The Carter Center from America was here. They did confirm some allegations of harassment and intimidation and inaccessibility of the vote count to their monitors. But they stressed there is much to be impressed about with the election process. Where is your claim of systematic, nationwide fraud? Because they do not say that.”

Hailu:- I think if you ask a little deeper, they will tell you that.

“But they have thus far not backed your claim. For example, Isac Kifle, one of you top advisers, he told us that “26 million out of 29 million voters have been cast against the ruling party. That would suggest a 90 percent to 10 percent election result. Where is your evidence to back your claim?”

Hailu:- “The evidence is with the board itself.You look at the result….”

“You mean the National Electoral Board?”

Hailu:- “Yes! If you look at the results, and what they chopped and changed on the paper; they didn’t even change the paper! They give us certificate for winning that precinct, and then the ruling party gets another paper with changed result on it. So we knew how much rigging there was. And there were areas where the whole box disappeared.

“You did present all this evidence to the electoral Board?”

Hailu:- “Yes!”

“So you presumably had confidence that once your evidence is seen by those members of the Electoral Board this wrong would be righted?”

Hailu:- “Well, under normal circumstances, it should be. But who is the `Board? who is the `Board’?”

“But do you really accept this process? Many wonder whether you are really acknowledging the right of the National Electoral Board to decide on who won on this national election.

Hailu:- “I think you question is right! We have serious doubts! On who is appointed there and on what they did. From our own experiences, right now…”

“Let’s cut the…the political nuance! Let’s be absolutely honest. Are you saying that this process is pointless?

Hailu:- “No, I didn’t say pointless! If….”

“But you just said that the Electoral Board is assigned by the ruling party.’’

Hailu:- “If you leave them alone, it is pointless! But if there are people working with them to ensure that the process is not secured as they would like it then they would have a chance to screw it through.”

“The Electoral Board ultimately appeared with the preliminary results; and it gives a clear majority to the ruling party and the current Prime Minister. Would you accept that result as legitimate?

Hailu:- “If the process was legitimate, yes! If the process was….”

“What does that mean?”

Hailu:- “That means, if it was done openly…”

But you just told me you don’t believe it will be! So, in that sense you are saying you wouldn’t accept the result as legitimate.

Hailu:- “No! They are saying “We will now work openly. So we said let’s give it a chance. We have been giving a chance even when we were coming into this election. We knew what was going to happen. But what we thought was that there might occur minor irregularities here and there. We didn’t think of daylight robbery.”

“On May the 21st you said that you would boycott the parliament unless justice was been done. It sounds to me like there will be a boycott from your party?”

Hailu:- “Most probably.”

“What kind of democratic values do you uphold then? Millions of people vote for you. The Electoral Board, which, there upon, according to the Constitution, will decide that actually you did well but you didn’t win. And then, you turn down all the people who voted for you and so you say “We are not going to represent you at the Parliament; we’re going to boycott”.

Hailu:- “Most of the people in the countryside have been robbed of their voice. Nobody listens to them. Everybody tells them to shut-up. So, somebody who hadn’t been elected into parliament and into government...; that is the democracy that you would have?”

“Prime Minster Meles told this programme that he has great sympathy for the idea of having a new election. What do you think?

Hailu:- “Great, perfect! I will accept it anytime!”

“You would accept?”

Hailu:- “Yes!”

“How quickly you imagine that election could be?”



Hailu:- “Well, we should agree, you know; the way… it should be done between all parties. It is not an order from one man. It should be agreed and timetabled; how to do it, correcting of all the mistakes that have been made before. All this has to be done together! Somebody from up there, telling us what to do when it is done, wouldn’t be fair.

“Let me read you a statement that was issued on the 31st of May and I am quoting. It was a call for numerous and successive protest demonstra- tions: ‘…stopping of school, transport, a nationwide general strike. The decision” it said “of whether or not we want to continue the part of the illegal government rests in our hand!’ Do you know who wrote that?”

Hailu:- “I don’t know!”

“That was your own party - the C.U.D, the main opposition party.”

Hailu:- “No! No! C.U.D didn’t write that.”

“Well, I have seen the document.

Hailu:- “Well, how does it look? Does it have our emblem, and our signature?”

“Absolutely.”

Hailu:- “No, we didn’t issue that. Sorry.’’

“I have seen the document, the insignia,”

Hailu:-” No! But…”

“Are you saying you never made a call for protest, demonstrations?

Hailu:- “No! We said we have called, but not this time; for a strike or anything. We never…. After the election we didn’t call for any single demonstration. None whatsoever! What the government calls demonstration is not ours. They made it and they killed it!”

So, you are denying that the document I have seen is not genuine?”



Hailu:- “It’s not genuine. It did not come out of our office. You can check it any time”.

“The fact is though; people did take to the streets. Opposition forces went to the streets.”

Hailu:-’’ No…. No…. No…. No…! I am sorry to correct you.

On the 8th of June thousands of people- in Addis Ababa- students, even some high school students; all of them were angry of the election.”

“Are you telling me that your party had nothing to do with that?

Hailu:- “None, whatsoever.”

“So, it seems to be a remarkable coincidence that they all gathered in Addis on that particular day!”

Hailu:- They didn’t gather….”

“After…. After 3 days they ….”

Hailu:- “They didn’t gather.”

“If they had invited you, would you have worked with the committee (screening committee of the Electoral Board)?

Hailu:- “No, they wouldn’t invite us anyway!

“If it is an independent body, yes! If a government arranged body, forget it! It’s worthless. We have seen it.”

“Bereket Simon, the Information Minister, said: “After this incident on June the 8th, which left many people dead, if you allow people to defy law and order take matter into their own hands while government sitting by the side and not maintaining true responsibility for law and order - anybody who is capable of taking matters into their own hands will reign over society and will bring the whole of the Ethiopian society into turmoil.”

He is right. The government has a duty to maintain law and order, when the election result remains a source of doubt.”

Hailu:-) “No! It will remain a source of doubt. But it will not be a reason to kill. If you….”

“The government says there were organized agitators on the streets attacking the police. They were looting some shops. The government has the duty to impose order.



Hailu:- “It’s a blatant lie. I would like to see one shop that was looted, one bank which has been broken. No place, no where.”

“Were you there?”

Hailu:- “I was.”

“Were you there?’’

Hailu:- I have been driven around by my driver”

“O.K. Well, what I heard was a little different. That you were under a house arrest a short while earlier, weren’t you?”Hailu:- “Yeah!”



“But you were not; you are talking to us. You were rather free?”

Hailu:- “Yes.”

“You seem to be...”

Hailu:- You think they take my freedom and give me back? This is not an improvement, is it?”

“My point is that you are portraying a government that is intent on imposing, some sort of, fogish police state of Ethiopia.”

Hailu:- “Exactly!..Exactly!”

“And, here you are, leader of the opposition, talking to the B.B.C, free to do whatever you want and travel around. You had been - indeed - having a dialogue with the government. You had been- indeed talking to government officials since your house arrest?”

Hailu:- “Haven’t talked to anyone; to any government official.”

“Well, your party issued a joint statement, stressing the need for accepting the peaceful process; the need for avoiding violence on the streets.

Hailu:- Yes! And we even said it before the government said it. So, where is the big deal about it?”

“Well, this is my point. There is a contradiction in your position right now. On the one hand you are saying this government is beyond the poll and you are involved in the process through the National Electoral Board. You also issued a Joint Statement of Commitment for peacefully resolving the problem. You can’t have it both ways. Either this country is facing revolution and...”

Hailu:- “No! No! We are not facing revolution; we say it’s a peaceful demonstration. Not a revolution, O.K? Anywhere...don’t people demonstrate when they are disappointed in where you came? Don’t they demonstrate in any country? They even demonstrate in Ouagadougou. So, why can’t we here demonstrate in Addis? But we never called for that demonstration. But I am not saying we will never call a demonstration. When we call a demonstration it is going to be a peaceful one. But, the government created this whole incident.”

“Well, would you bring your people out in to the streets, if - as you suspect - the Electoral Board upholds the government’s victory and you regard the process is illegitimate?”

Hailu:- “If I consider it illegitimate?”

“Yeah.”

Hailu:- “Yes! I will.”

“What do you think? What will happen then?”

Hailu:- “It’s up to the government to behave as they claim to be a democrat.”

“Even after what happened on June the 8th what do you think will happen when you bring your people - tens and tens and tens of thousands of them onto the streets at the end of this?”

Hailu:- “You know what? If the government wants to do it, then it’s done! They don’t permit it; free expression of opinion.

“Then to dislodge - what do you call them; regimes like this? We have died before? We’re dying right now; today, yesterday, the day before. If you go all over Ethiopia, you will find people being apprehended, killed, taken to jail or kicked-off their land; becoming destitute and become beggars in Addis. What kind of a system are we goanna live with, if it’s gone continue like this?”

“Your policies and your decision over the next few weeks may lead to a terrible bloodshed in this country.”

Hailu:- “No! It would not. It will not. It has never done. We had the biggest demonstration in Addis before the elections. Nothing happens, if the government behaves itself.”

“Let’s look at the international reaction to what is happening here. Britain announced the suspension of 20 million pounds. Do you support that? Do you want the G8 countries to suspend their debt relief for Ethiopia?”

Hailu:- “I don’t agree on unmonitored fund; giving of funds to any governments.”

“You don’t support the debt relief?”

Hailu:- “My support is giving fund directly to the people; directly to a specific project, directly where money is needed. You know? You call it `Budgetary Support’; that is giving some money in to the kit. What happens to that money? There is no way of determining where it goes!

“Well, let’s be clear about that.”

Hailu:- “Why do you give that money?”

“Let us be clear about that. Are you telling the International Community, which is giving billions of dollars of aid to Ethiopia that they should now reconsider all of that aid; given what is happening in your country?”

Hailu:- “Reconsider the process of giving aid.’’

“Why do you think Prime Minister Meles is one of the favorite African leaders of the Donor Countries? They regard him as a beacon of progress and good governance! Tony Blair appointed him in the African commission. Why?”

Hailu:- “Tony Blair has his own yardstick for measuring.

Acceptability, I guess. Because….”

“Are you just saying that they have been duped by Prime Minister Meles?”

Hailu:- “Of course!”

“Are you so naïve?”

Hailu:- “Possibly. They don’t know our culture, our behavior; how an Ethiopian behaves under different circumstances. There are many two faced people in this world. They don’t know this country in-depth; that is what I believe. And I don’t blame them.”

“Could it be that you, with your own political ambition, are using the current situation against the people of Ethiopia. You now are advising that aid should be reconsidered. Can you, yourself a man who served for two years under the so-called `Red Terror Regime of Colonel Mengistu…”

Hailu:- “Yeah.”

“This is more about your political ambition rather than for the good of the Ethiopian people.”

Hailu:- “I was the only person who stood up at that time and told the `Dergue:”You are wrong! I’m quitting.”



“How many years did you spend serving Colonel Mengistu?”

Hailu:- “Two years, two years or 1½ years.”

“Two years?”



Hailu:- “Yes.”

“It took you two years to understand that you were going in the wrong direction?”

Hailu:- Yes, it took me two years! We were trying… we were trying to get these people to take the right direction; even to take the try. We gave it a try…”

“Two long years?”

Hailu:- “But I don’t have access like everybody else. I don’t have access in itself. I’m just a technician. OK? I’m an expert in management…”

“You were a top official.”

Hailu:- “I have children. To protect your children there are certain things you do, but then, when you reach a certain boundary, you say “sorry I don’t agree with you, you are wrong!” If you are talking of my ambition, you didn’t do any homework on who I am?”

“I tell you what I talk about. I talk about you as a politician. I talk about your track record. I talk about what happened to Ethiopia under Colonel Mengistu. And I talk about where Ethiopia is today. It is making progress; for example it is educating its children, making progress economically. We have seen an 11 percent growth rate recently. It is slowly… slowly emerging from a terrible poverty under a leader that Western experts believe doing a decent job. And you are now trying to drag that process down.

Hailu:- “That process is already down. I don’t have to drag it down. Its record shows those 11 percent … I know those figures. I have been in the business of consultancy. These figures, you can screw them in any way you like.”

“So what would you do if you may? If the electoral board were to over turn the preliminary result and be the leader of Ethiopia in a few short weeks. What would your priority be?’’

Hailu:- “My priorities are obvious. It is shown in our manifesto. What we’re going to do:-

Free up the financial system,
Create a conducive environment to create jobs for the young; create special training for that the young can get employed.
At the moment we are concentrating only on state sponsored companies instead of attracting private investment locally and from after and abroad.

We C.U.D. are on a private investment root. And I am sure I have links everywhere. If the atmosphere changed there will be a flood of investors coming here. That is the only way you create jobs and the only way you educate people.”

“And what would you do with the land?”

Hailu:- “ Privatize it obviously.”

“How? It’s not quite obvious.”

Hailu:- “ Because the farmer has to own something. He is not going to be pushed around by some cadres; if you don’t agree with them they kick him out of his land. How can you talk about democracy when, even, a farmer doesn’t own his own cloth and say no to anybody?”

“Almost all international observers agree that 85 percent of Ethiopian are Desperately poor peasants living at the edge of starvation. There are million and million of people who would die, was it not for international food aid. How are these people gone own Land?

Hailu:- You will have to give them allocated land. You know how it’s done? Every community has elders. The elders decide how to allocate the land.

If this is communally owned for private ownership. And other for grazing, and so on… They decide. But the government’s role will be to get that certificate.

The Information Minister, Bereket Simon says: “If the opposition continues with its inflammatory rhetoric, Ethiopia could slide towards the kind of instability and then violence that Africa last saw in Rwanda!”

Hailu:- “ That is his negative thinking. It will never … never happen in Ethiopia! Never! Because that is not how the country has come about. People live here side by side. It is a mixed neighborhood. We talk to each other. The ladies have coffee together. We are intermarried. Inconceivable for this to happen. You should look at the heavily Tigrean areas like the Tekel-Haimanot. That are is 75 percent Tigreans. They voted for non Tigrean-- the CUD.

So where is the problem?”

“Are you are optimistic of Ethiopia’s future? Till the last year people wanted to believe that this country is dragging itself from poverty. Now the out look looks much bleaker.”

Hailu:- “It’s not. Well it is easy to solve. Let the government take its guns away. Then we have a beautiful future; I can tell you.”

Hailu Shawel, thank you very much for being on “Hard Talk”.

Hailu:- “Thank You for having me here.”

(The interview was conducted on July 5, 2005.)

[END]

Email: walta@yahoo.com

City: addis

Walta, Thank you for bringing the whole text.

Ibrahim and the likes of Ibrahim: do not bark, just look in to the text. Look how it is so wonderful and look how Ato Hailu is so optimist. He is looking forward to seeing beutiful future for Ethiopia. Can you tell your masters to take the guns back to DEDEBIT?

Mamo Qilo, pls tell them what to do. They really need help; I mean the Woyanes.

Dear Wako:
Do you need how to read the statement made by your junior politician?
He admitted that Mr. Meles has given them a chance to express their opinions and this has never happened when your forefather were ruling ethiopia.

“Because you had access to the media, you had the opportunity to debate with the ruling party. It was remarkable, wasn’t it?”

Hailu:- “It was the first time in our history, we had access to our people. At least we could tell most of the people what we stand for and what we have a dream for Ethiopia.”

Email: shirdons@yahoo.com

City: Washington DC

Ibrahim,

What is wrong with you? Are you that moron? How in the world you teach law?
The people of Ethiopia have spoken!!!!!!!! The people of Ethiopia from all ethnic groups have voted for CUD willingly with out being forced by gun.Why don’t you respect the people’s voice? What is democracy means to you?

Far more than the majority of Ethiopian people hate Meles. They have seen his work for the last fourteen years and they despise him. They want a change. What is a rule of law means to you? Do you wish anarchy for Ethiopia, like Somalia?

Do you support Meles' effert to divide Ethiopian People?

Before i begin my assesment of the BBC interview with Prime Minister Meles Zenawi,and Hailu Shawel CUD chair, let me state some facts in the ground.

1. CUD has , in a landslide, won the election

2. EPRDF has rigged, and is continuing to do so, the election

3. 36 people, to the minimum, were guned down by EPRDF miliary , more than 100 were wounded and thousands were arrested

4. The Prime Minister is personaly responsible for all the fatalities and calamities as he clearly stated that the armed forces are under his direct control and will act on his order, when he declared the 'state of emergency'

5. Opposition party leaders and members were arrested and put under house arrest, an elected law make was shot dead

6. International Observers have voiced their concern and demanded that, armed forces retract from using 'excesive force', all parties refrain from inflaming the already 'on fire' situation, and an independent gruop investigates and brings to justice those who are responsible for shooting down civilians and those who gave the orders

7.As of to day no investigation team is set up.

coming back to the interviews:

Was BBC fair to Meles?

Well, if he was not, then he did not have the chance becuase all the odds were against Meles. The interviewer just did a great job.

Meles was an outright blatant lier. He tried to escape the fact that he appointed the personnel in NEB by saying The President 10 years a go appointed them. He was cought red-handed right there. He very shamefuly denied that 36 people lost their lives, this was very poor on his side becuase 26 wouldn't have made Meles look better.

Meles was not at all comfortable, right from the beggining. he was very mad that he was seen bitting his lips.This made him so vulnerable that he talked about an independent investigating gruop not realising that it has been weeks since the shootings and he hasn't even established the team yet.

The biggest DANGER that i observed, and nobody else seem to have observed, is that The PM has already started blame shifting. He said that the only thing the armed forces were ordered was to stop the riot. And then he added IT WAS REPORTED TO HIM that they had to shoot because things were going out of control.He also back slided from Berket Simons statement by saying that he does not have to confirm with me.

To sum up, it was like a Cat and Mouse Chase between the two. And sadly enough, Meles concluded it with a pessimistic vission.INTERHAWME

Was BBC fair to Engineer Hailu?

He was, I can say, not as hard on him as he was on Meles. I was imaginning a number of questions where he could have cornered Hailu, but he simply didn't.

Hailu was more graceful and presidential than Meles. He was calm through most of the time. But it was very noticable that he lacked articulation, a little bit of the language( note that I am any better than him)but more troubling is he lacked substance.

He was givin every chance to hammer Meles on his record but instead chose to mark on the 'behaviour of Ethiopians' and give a scape goat for the PM. I think he mis-understood the question, when the interviewer presented him with facts of CUD's call for peaceful means of oppossing the election fruad. The way I understood it, the paper he has are those that CUD were announcing for the public to get ready for all kinds of peaceful measures. Hailu however mis-understood that to mean the June 8 riot is the result of CUD's agetation. That is a miss understanding and a missed opportunity.

All in all, it would have been an opportunity to gain the confidence of the Westerners who are cought between a Tyrany with a Militray power and a newly emerging democrats with the support of the people. Unfortunately, Hailu, CUD and we the people lost this chance. The good news is, it is not the only chance.like I am , Hailu also concluded the interview with a very positive and optimistic vision, a BEATIFUL ETHIOPIA.

conclusion.

They both failed the test:

Meles got an F
Hailu a C-

Read these and judge!

very few of them!!!

".... The ladies have coffee together. ....." Not we ("Zelimad")

" ... Tigrean areas like the Tekel-Haimanot. That are is 75 percent Tigreans. They voted for non Tigrean-- the CUD. "
Ethiopia without Tigray!


"...? Don't they demonstrate in any country? They even demonstrate in Ouagadougou. So, why cannot we here demonstrate in Addis? .... "

("Zelimad")

Better be yeeder dagna!!!!!!!!!!

Email: lmazgenet@yahoo.com

City: Addis Ababa

Thank You! Almaz,

Read these and judge!

very few of them!!!

".... The ladies have coffee together. ....." Not we ("Zelimad")

" ... Tigrean areas like the Tekel-Haimanot. That are is 75 percent Tigreans. They voted for non Tigrean-- the CUD. "
Ethiopia without Tigray!


"...? Don't they demonstrate in any country? They even demonstrate in Ouagadougou. So, why cannot we here demonstrate in Addis? .... "

Almaz,
I've been thinking for the post that best fits Hailu. You got it right. I'ld vote for Hailu Shawel to be "Ye Idr Dagna" but no more. Some members try to portray him to be Visionary as "Hugo chavez" and Charismatic Orator like " Malcolm-X". This guy is nothing but typical Feudal,Chauvenist,Sexist and Arrogant. He's living in the 19th Century. This Feudal owe Tigrians, the Rwandans, and the rest of us an apology. It's typical of Most Ethiopians to say "Baria" to Africans and African Americans alike. To hear from an Opposition leader like him is shocking. He thinks all Ethiopians are Double faced like him. He has nothing what so ever in leadership quality. I feel very sorry for the Country and the people.

I am glad that the illusive and professional liar, PM Meles is unmasked in front of the world by the BBC HT. "anjete kibea teta" ale yagereasew


On the other hand, Ato Hailu Shawel has the whole truth in his side, and truth is always easier to sell. However Ato Hailu has failed in utilizing this interview as a golden opportunity to promote the opposition as the viable alternatives to an incumbent dictator. Some of the questions raised by the BBC HT like defending his own record, implementation of land policy, evidences of vote rigging, the importance of tying grant to good governance should have been relatively easier to respond and a must to know by heart. In an interview one has to be able to consciously control his body movement especially of his hands. Ato Hailu often swings his hands, run short of words and lost composure. I am not only concerned with his presentation style but also with the very content of his responses. I also recognize language skill and lack of experience in this respect has played a role in his mediocre performance.

Some of the Issues raised by HT

1) What will you do if the NEB declares the ruling party as a winner and your opposition party does not agree with the decision? Will you call your people to protest on the streets knowing what the government is capable of doing? More or less the answer from Ato Hailu was “yes I will”, and it is the responsibility of the government to behave it self. (off course Ato Hailu did not remember to mention less confrontational approach like calling a nation wide strike) Then interviewer was very quick to say that you will be inviting even more bloodshed. Off course the interviewer has made up his mind that Meles is out there to kill as much as it takes to stay in power.

This same question was raised to DR Berhanu Nega during his recent town hall meeting in Europe. His answer was “I don’t know”, no body knows what to do next if the problem is not solved fairly. Further he even said that, if any body tells you otherwise he is lying…..,. On the other hand Ato Hailu seems to vehemently assert that the opposition will forge forward with the peaceful struggle.

One thing is very clear and should be clear to every body as well. The most likely scenario is the quagmire at hand will not be resolved justly. The leaders of the opposition have not yet made up their minds as to how to deal with the next critical stage. I think It is time for the opposition to show a sense of direction and common ground as to how to deal with the next critical turn of events.

Meles has made it clear that he will stay in power at any cost, even if it could mean taking more and more "Un employed youth" (by the way more than 35% of the population is unemploye) . How about the opposition? Are they determined to continue with peaceful struggle at any cost? Are they looking for middle ground? Are they going to settle for what they have now; after all they have done their best to rectify the situation? The opposition parties have agreed to unify, but in this deal to merge, what was their common ground regarding the next direction of the movement?

It is the TOP URGENT duty of the opposition to find a sense of direction and common ground before they are caught “pants down”. Meles is patiently waiting for the opposition to disintegrate, which would make them even easier prey.


2) How should donors address legitimate use of funds? Ato Hailu opts for project tied funds. My question though is, will Ato Hailu stand by this position if the opposition should win in this election? Project tied funds have been tried and failed, simply because they deny flexibility and prioritization at local level. Rather the acid test should be the political willingness and effectiveness of the government to install and nourish good governance, transparency, and democratic institutions. By all account EPRDF fails to satisfy these measurements and should not be entrusted with this huge responsibility of judicious use of grant funds. Therefore most importantly the donors should push for democratic reform rather than simply appending funds to projects.

3) Ato Hailu did not effectively address the issue of privatization of land as well. The interviewer has posed to him a very serious question. While 85% of the population is dependent on subsistence farming and food hand out from the international community, how will you address the issue of land? His answer: just privatize it through a process of allocation by mandated elders -committee or community institution. It sounds very intuitive and gravely simplified. First should come acknowledging the short term difficulty, the imperfection and the unintended consequences of the process. Then address the long-term benefits and also state the interim measures that the reform should introduce to minimize dislocation and migration to urban areas. The role of the international donor community in helping this reform should also be stressed. The experience of other nations like China (liquidation of collective farming and gradual privatization) can also be mentioned.

Leadership is by and large planning and communication and it includes international communication. The opposition leaders should be able to come up with a sense of direction even under this precarious situation.The indecision could backfire in an enormous way. Right now this ambiguity of tactic can have a negative effect in selling the views of the opposition to the diplomatic community and even more importantly it can dramaticcaly lower follower retention and commitement.

Finally, I would like to celebrate the brave and selfless leaders of the opposition and our people at large. The importance of unwavering leadership is the core element of victory. “When the going get tough, the tough gets going” let us not loose the momentum.

yohannes Sh

Email: shenkute@yahoo.com

City: Nashville, TN